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Re: [fukuoka_farming] 2 links I would like to share on Farming with Natural ways

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  • Tp India
    I agree with your views Shriman Boovarahan but I found it a nice read hence shared,thanks for your valued inputs. ________________________________ From:
    Message 1 of 10 , Nov 3, 2011
      I agree with your views Shriman Boovarahan but I found it a nice read hence shared,thanks for your valued inputs.


      ________________________________
      From: Boovarahan Srinivasan <offtown@...>
      To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Thursday, November 3, 2011 9:35 PM
      Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] 2 links I would like to share on Farming with Natural ways

      It seems more labourious work and not NF. May be better suited for organic
      farming.
      The moment we think that we are intelligent enough to alter nature by
      artificial means , by chemical or organic means , is simply arrogance .

      That's what I understand in NF.
      Correct me if I am wrong.
      The Amrut Pani mentioned in this site differs from Shankar Deshpande's
      method which uses ghee ( clarified butter ) , a costly ingredient.
      All these organic farming methods rely on the cow dung and cow's urine of
      desi cow with some additional inputs like flour, ghee, honey, brown sugar
      etc.
      In Nf these are not necessary ( may be except in the initial year ).

      On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 8:08 PM, Tp India <tpindia@...> wrote:

      > **
      >
      >
      > If these shared earlier I am not aware of it but I liked it very much
      > hence sharing.
      >
      > http://www.natuecofarmingscience.com/amrut_krush.pdf
      >
      > http://www.natuecocityfarming.blogspot.com/
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >

      >



      --
      Boovarahan S
      Chennai.
      09962662717 (Vodafone) , 08825889492 (Videocon)


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



      ------------------------------------

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    • Nandan Palaparambil
      Natueco farming science developed by Prof. Dhabholkar is great, but doing it in large scale is laborious. First link is in Hindi, please see the link below to
      Message 2 of 10 , Nov 3, 2011
        Natueco farming science developed by Prof. Dhabholkar is great, but doing it in large scale is laborious.
        First link is in Hindi, please see the link below to learn about Natueco farming.


        http://www.natuecofarmingscience.com/what_is_nat.htm

        See the details on how to make nursery soil which is supposed to be having all qualities of forest soil and in 3 months.


        As per this, 10gm of all these seeds have to be sown per sq.ft an


        Grain-Rice, Jowhar, Bajra, Maiz, Wheat
        Ceral-Mung, Channa, Muth, Udid
        Oil seads - Groundnut, Till, Castor Mustard, Curdi
        Spices - Methi, Jira, Rai, Chilly, Mustard
        Vegetable, Tomatto, Bringal, Bean, Bitter Gaud
        Creeper- Cucumber, Red & Green Gaud, Turi, Galka
        Root plants –Turmeric, Ginger, Sweet potato, Tapioca
        Fibrous plants –Cotton, Ladyfinger, Ambadi
        Flowering plants –Marigold, Mogra, Jhui, Chameli,
        Herbal Plants-Tulsi, Satavari, Ardusi, kadukadiatu
        Long life trees-Subabul, Neem, Drumstick, Karanj, Mohua, Glericedia


        I was fascinated by the idea, but it looks like it can be used by city farmers. Please give the details of some person effectively using it for more than 1 acre and how long and what cost was involved in conversion.

        Even though this is Fukuoka farming list, I hope it is OK to discuss these things.


        Regards,

        Nandan


        ________________________________
        From: Tp India <tpindia@...>
        To: Fukuoka Group <fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Thursday, November 3, 2011 8:08 PM
        Subject: [fukuoka_farming] 2 links I would like to share on Farming with Natural ways


         
        If these shared earlier I am not aware of it but I liked it very much hence sharing.
         
        http://www.natuecofarmingscience.com/amrut_krush.pdf
         
        http://www.natuecocityfarming.blogspot.com/

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Nandan Palaparambil
        Yes, it may be required only in initial year or initial years..But this initial period is crucial for NF farmers, so what strategy shall they use to make the
        Message 3 of 10 , Nov 3, 2011
          Yes, it may be required only in initial year or initial years..But this initial period is crucial for NF farmers, so what strategy shall they use to make the land productive?


          With this in mind, I just glanced through The Natural way of farming - and it gives lot of details about how to start an orchard, rice paddy etc..Where there is description about direct burial of coarse organic matter deep in ground, then growing of different types of legumes etc..May be this is a very productive strategy and we need more examples of people religiously following Fukuoka san's method and results including the initial years !!


          So long way to go...even I don't have a complete leguminous ground cover in my coconut farm..


          Regards,

          Nandan



          ________________________________
          From: Boovarahan Srinivasan <offtown@...>
          To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Thursday, November 3, 2011 9:35 PM
          Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] 2 links I would like to share on Farming with Natural ways

          It seems more labourious work and not NF. May be better suited for organic
          farming.
          The moment we think that we are intelligent enough to alter nature by
          artificial means , by chemical or organic means , is simply arrogance .

          That's what I understand in NF.
          Correct me if I am wrong.
          The Amrut Pani mentioned in this site differs from Shankar Deshpande's
          method which uses ghee ( clarified butter ) , a costly ingredient.
          All these organic farming methods rely on the cow dung and cow's urine of
          desi cow with some additional inputs like flour, ghee, honey, brown sugar
          etc.
          In Nf these are not necessary ( may be except in the initial year ).

          On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 8:08 PM, Tp India <tpindia@...> wrote:

          > **
          >
          >
          > If these shared earlier I am not aware of it but I liked it very much
          > hence sharing.
          >
          > http://www.natuecofarmingscience.com/amrut_krush.pdf
          >
          > http://www.natuecocityfarming.blogspot.com/
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >

          >



          --
          Boovarahan S
          Chennai.
          09962662717 (Vodafone) , 08825889492 (Videocon)


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



          ------------------------------------

          Yahoo! Groups Links



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Boovarahan Srinivasan
          Thanks for sharing. I have gained a lot of knowledge from such mails sent by our members. ... Chennai. 09962662717 (Vodafone) , 08825889492 (Videocon)
          Message 4 of 10 , Nov 4, 2011
            Thanks for sharing.
            I have gained a lot of knowledge from such mails sent by our members.

            On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 9:51 PM, Tp India <tpindia@...> wrote:

            > **
            >
            >
            > I agree with your views Shriman Boovarahan but I found it a nice read
            > hence shared,thanks for your valued inputs.
            >


            > Boovarahan S
            >
            Chennai.
            09962662717 (Vodafone) , 08825889492 (Videocon)


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Ruthie Aquino
            Hello Nandan Can you tell us more about your coconut farm please? What kind of coconut, how big the land, what ground cover, how old the trees, how much their
            Message 5 of 10 , Nov 5, 2011
              Hello Nandan

              Can you tell us more about your coconut farm please?
              What kind of coconut, how big the land, what ground cover, how old the
              trees, how much their production, what you do with the fruits, how and
              where you sell them?

              best regards
              RUTHIE

              2011/11/3 Nandan Palaparambil <p_k_nandanan@...>

              > **
              >
              >
              > Yes, it may be required only in initial year or initial years..But this
              > initial period is crucial for NF farmers, so what strategy shall they use
              > to make the land productive?
              >
              > With this in mind, I just glanced through The Natural way of farming - and
              > it gives lot of details about how to start an orchard, rice paddy
              > etc..Where there is description about direct burial of coarse organic
              > matter deep in ground, then growing of different types of legumes etc..May
              > be this is a very productive strategy and we need more examples of people
              > religiously following Fukuoka san's method and results including the
              > initial years !!
              >
              > So long way to go...even I don't have a complete leguminous ground cover
              > in my coconut farm..
              >
              > Regards,
              >
              > Nandan
              >
              > ________________________________
              > From: Boovarahan Srinivasan <offtown@...>
              >
              > To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Thursday, November 3, 2011 9:35 PM
              > Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] 2 links I would like to share on Farming
              > with Natural ways
              >
              >
              > It seems more labourious work and not NF. May be better suited for organic
              > farming.
              > The moment we think that we are intelligent enough to alter nature by
              > artificial means , by chemical or organic means , is simply arrogance .
              >
              > That's what I understand in NF.
              > Correct me if I am wrong.
              > The Amrut Pani mentioned in this site differs from Shankar Deshpande's
              > method which uses ghee ( clarified butter ) , a costly ingredient.
              > All these organic farming methods rely on the cow dung and cow's urine of
              > desi cow with some additional inputs like flour, ghee, honey, brown sugar
              > etc.
              > In Nf these are not necessary ( may be except in the initial year ).
              >
              > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 8:08 PM, Tp India <tpindia@...> wrote:
              >
              > > **
              > >
              > >
              > > If these shared earlier I am not aware of it but I liked it very much
              > > hence sharing.
              > >
              > > http://www.natuecofarmingscience.com/amrut_krush.pdf
              > >
              > > http://www.natuecocityfarming.blogspot.com/
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              > --
              > Boovarahan S
              > Chennai.
              > 09962662717 (Vodafone) , 08825889492 (Videocon)
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Nandan Palaparambil
              Hi Ruthie, My farm is 9.25 acres and grown up coconut tree are there in around 4 acres,but not completely populated with trees. Coconut trees are local Kerala
              Message 6 of 10 , Nov 6, 2011
                Hi Ruthie,

                My farm is 9.25 acres and grown up coconut tree are there in around 4 acres,but not completely populated with trees. Coconut trees are local Kerala (one state of India) variety and trees are around 15 years old. Typically nuts are collected on every 2 months and one person buys it from me. He brings the workers and collect the nuts and it is given at a cost of 6-7 Indian rupees per nut. On an average 150 trees are harvested in every month.


                It has been 3 years since I bought the farm and I was just cutting and mulching the grass which grows very thick after the rain. All the leaves and coconut husks are also used for mulching. In a period of 3 years, trees have improved quite a lot and gets around 2000-2500 nuts in 2 months. I started growing sunhemp and velvet beans as ground cover, but it is established in small area. As an intercrop, I have banana, mango trees, a few other local fruit trees.



                Regards,

                Nandan




                ________________________________
                From: Ruthie Aquino <ruthieaquino1@...>
                To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Sunday, November 6, 2011 1:26 AM
                Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] 2 links I would like to share on Farming with Natural ways

                Hello Nandan

                Can you tell us more about your coconut farm please?
                What kind of coconut, how big the land, what ground cover, how old the
                trees, how much their production, what you do with the fruits, how and
                where you sell them?

                best regards
                RUTHIE

                2011/11/3 Nandan Palaparambil <p_k_nandanan@...>

                > **
                >
                >
                > Yes, it may be required only in initial year or initial years..But this
                > initial period is crucial for NF farmers, so what strategy shall they use
                > to make the land productive?
                >
                > With this in mind, I just glanced through The Natural way of farming - and
                > it gives lot of details about how to start an orchard, rice paddy
                > etc..Where there is description about direct burial of coarse organic
                > matter deep in ground, then growing of different types of legumes etc..May
                > be this is a very productive strategy and we need more examples of people
                > religiously following Fukuoka san's method and results including the
                > initial years !!
                >
                > So long way to go...even I don't have a complete leguminous ground cover
                > in my coconut farm..
                >
                > Regards,
                >
                > Nandan
                >
                > ________________________________
                > From: Boovarahan Srinivasan <offtown@...>
                >
                > To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Thursday, November 3, 2011 9:35 PM
                > Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] 2 links I would like to share on Farming
                > with Natural ways
                >
                >
                > It seems more labourious work and not NF. May be better suited for organic
                > farming.
                > The moment we think that we are intelligent enough to alter nature by
                > artificial means , by chemical or organic means , is simply arrogance .
                >
                > That's what I understand in NF.
                > Correct me if I am wrong.
                > The Amrut Pani mentioned in this site differs from Shankar Deshpande's
                > method which uses ghee ( clarified butter ) , a costly ingredient.
                > All these organic farming methods rely on the cow dung and cow's urine of
                > desi cow with some additional inputs like flour, ghee, honey, brown sugar
                > etc.
                > In Nf these are not necessary ( may be except in the initial year ).
                >
                > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 8:08 PM, Tp India <tpindia@...> wrote:
                >
                > > **
                > >
                > >
                > > If these shared earlier I am not aware of it but I liked it very much
                > > hence sharing.
                > >
                > > http://www.natuecofarmingscience.com/amrut_krush.pdf
                > >
                > > http://www.natuecocityfarming.blogspot.com/
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                > --
                > Boovarahan S
                > Chennai.
                > 09962662717 (Vodafone) , 08825889492 (Videocon)
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >

                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                ------------------------------------

                Yahoo! Groups Links



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Boovarahan Srinivasan
                I think u r in Bangalore and your farm is in Kerala. How often do you visit your farm and what about the distance ? On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 11:42 PM, Nandan
                Message 7 of 10 , Nov 6, 2011
                  I think u r in Bangalore and your farm is in Kerala.
                  How often do you visit your farm and what about the distance ?

                  On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 11:42 PM, Nandan Palaparambil <p_k_nandanan@...
                  > wrote:

                  > **
                  >
                  >
                  > Hi Ruthie,
                  >
                  > My farm is 9.25 acres and grown up coconut tree are there in around 4
                  > acres,but not completely populated with trees. Coconut trees are local
                  > Kerala (one state of India) variety and trees are around 15 years old.
                  > Typically nuts are collected on every 2 months and one person buys it from
                  > me. He brings the workers and collect the nuts and it is given at a cost of
                  > 6-7 Indian rupees per nut. On an average 150 trees are harvested in every
                  > month.
                  >
                  > It has been 3 years since I bought the farm and I was just cutting and
                  > mulching the grass which grows very thick after the rain. All the leaves
                  > and coconut husks are also used for mulching. In a period of 3 years, trees
                  > have improved quite a lot and gets around 2000-2500 nuts in 2 months. I
                  > started growing sunhemp and velvet beans as ground cover, but it is
                  > established in small area. As an intercrop, I have banana, mango trees, a
                  > few other local fruit trees.
                  >
                  > Regards,
                  >
                  > Nandan
                  >
                  > ________________________________
                  > From: Ruthie Aquino <ruthieaquino1@...>
                  > To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Sunday, November 6, 2011 1:26 AM
                  >
                  > Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] 2 links I would like to share on Farming
                  > with Natural ways
                  >
                  > Hello Nandan
                  >
                  > Can you tell us more about your coconut farm please?
                  > What kind of coconut, how big the land, what ground cover, how old the
                  > trees, how much their production, what you do with the fruits, how and
                  > where you sell them?
                  >
                  > best regards
                  > RUTHIE
                  >
                  > 2011/11/3 Nandan Palaparambil <p_k_nandanan@...>
                  >
                  > > **
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Yes, it may be required only in initial year or initial years..But this
                  > > initial period is crucial for NF farmers, so what strategy shall they use
                  > > to make the land productive?
                  > >
                  > > With this in mind, I just glanced through The Natural way of farming -
                  > and
                  > > it gives lot of details about how to start an orchard, rice paddy
                  > > etc..Where there is description about direct burial of coarse organic
                  > > matter deep in ground, then growing of different types of legumes
                  > etc..May
                  > > be this is a very productive strategy and we need more examples of people
                  > > religiously following Fukuoka san's method and results including the
                  > > initial years !!
                  > >
                  > > So long way to go...even I don't have a complete leguminous ground cover
                  > > in my coconut farm..
                  > >
                  > > Regards,
                  > >
                  > > Nandan
                  > >
                  > > ________________________________
                  > > From: Boovarahan Srinivasan <offtown@...>
                  > >
                  > > To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Sent: Thursday, November 3, 2011 9:35 PM
                  > > Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] 2 links I would like to share on Farming
                  > > with Natural ways
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > It seems more labourious work and not NF. May be better suited for
                  > organic
                  > > farming.
                  > > The moment we think that we are intelligent enough to alter nature by
                  > > artificial means , by chemical or organic means , is simply arrogance .
                  > >
                  > > That's what I understand in NF.
                  > > Correct me if I am wrong.
                  > > The Amrut Pani mentioned in this site differs from Shankar Deshpande's
                  > > method which uses ghee ( clarified butter ) , a costly ingredient.
                  > > All these organic farming methods rely on the cow dung and cow's urine of
                  > > desi cow with some additional inputs like flour, ghee, honey, brown sugar
                  > > etc.
                  > > In Nf these are not necessary ( may be except in the initial year ).
                  > >
                  > > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 8:08 PM, Tp India <tpindia@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > > **
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > If these shared earlier I am not aware of it but I liked it very much
                  > > > hence sharing.
                  > > >
                  > > > http://www.natuecofarmingscience.com/amrut_krush.pdf
                  > > >
                  > > > http://www.natuecocityfarming.blogspot.com/
                  > > >
                  > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > > --
                  > > Boovarahan S
                  > > Chennai.
                  > > 09962662717 (Vodafone) , 08825889492 (Videocon)
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  > > ------------------------------------
                  > >
                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >



                  --
                  Boovarahan S
                  Chennai.
                  09962662717 (Vodafone) , 08825889492 (Videocon)


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Ruthie Aquino
                  Hi Nandan, Do you just leave the dried leaves on the ground or do you sort of chop them up? They are so big. In the Philippines I have heard of the use of
                  Message 8 of 10 , Nov 7, 2011
                    Hi Nandan,
                    Do you just leave the dried leaves on the ground or do you sort of chop
                    them up? They are so big.
                    In the Philippines I have heard of the use of mycovam which is mycorrhiza
                    (hope the spelling is right) inoculated in the soil in the quantity of a
                    softdrink cap per tree, in a single application. Very old trees have been
                    rejuvenated using the method. This might be an attempt at copying Nature
                    in places where Nature can hardly help itself like when there is
                    severely depleted soil and not much organic matter around.
                    Thanks for sharing this info about your farm, it is interesting. I was
                    also wondering if you could raise grazing animals like goats under your
                    trees?

                    best
                    RUTHIE

                    2011/11/6 Nandan Palaparambil <p_k_nandanan@...>

                    > **
                    >
                    >
                    > Hi Ruthie,
                    >
                    > My farm is 9.25 acres and grown up coconut tree are there in around 4
                    > acres,but not completely populated with trees. Coconut trees are local
                    > Kerala (one state of India) variety and trees are around 15 years old.
                    > Typically nuts are collected on every 2 months and one person buys it from
                    > me. He brings the workers and collect the nuts and it is given at a cost of
                    > 6-7 Indian rupees per nut. On an average 150 trees are harvested in every
                    > month.
                    >
                    > It has been 3 years since I bought the farm and I was just cutting and
                    > mulching the grass which grows very thick after the rain. All the leaves
                    > and coconut husks are also used for mulching. In a period of 3 years, trees
                    > have improved quite a lot and gets around 2000-2500 nuts in 2 months. I
                    > started growing sunhemp and velvet beans as ground cover, but it is
                    > established in small area. As an intercrop, I have banana, mango trees, a
                    > few other local fruit trees.
                    >
                    > Regards,
                    >
                    > Nandan
                    >
                    > ________________________________
                    > From: Ruthie Aquino <ruthieaquino1@...>
                    > To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Sunday, November 6, 2011 1:26 AM
                    >
                    > Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] 2 links I would like to share on Farming
                    > with Natural ways
                    >
                    > Hello Nandan
                    >
                    > Can you tell us more about your coconut farm please?
                    > What kind of coconut, how big the land, what ground cover, how old the
                    > trees, how much their production, what you do with the fruits, how and
                    > where you sell them?
                    >
                    > best regards
                    > RUTHIE
                    >
                    > 2011/11/3 Nandan Palaparambil <p_k_nandanan@...>
                    >
                    > > **
                    >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Yes, it may be required only in initial year or initial years..But this
                    > > initial period is crucial for NF farmers, so what strategy shall they use
                    > > to make the land productive?
                    > >
                    > > With this in mind, I just glanced through The Natural way of farming -
                    > and
                    > > it gives lot of details about how to start an orchard, rice paddy
                    > > etc..Where there is description about direct burial of coarse organic
                    > > matter deep in ground, then growing of different types of legumes
                    > etc..May
                    > > be this is a very productive strategy and we need more examples of people
                    > > religiously following Fukuoka san's method and results including the
                    > > initial years !!
                    > >
                    > > So long way to go...even I don't have a complete leguminous ground cover
                    > > in my coconut farm..
                    > >
                    > > Regards,
                    > >
                    > > Nandan
                    > >
                    > > ________________________________
                    > > From: Boovarahan Srinivasan <offtown@...>
                    > >
                    > > To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Sent: Thursday, November 3, 2011 9:35 PM
                    > > Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] 2 links I would like to share on Farming
                    > > with Natural ways
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > It seems more labourious work and not NF. May be better suited for
                    > organic
                    > > farming.
                    > > The moment we think that we are intelligent enough to alter nature by
                    > > artificial means , by chemical or organic means , is simply arrogance .
                    > >
                    > > That's what I understand in NF.
                    > > Correct me if I am wrong.
                    > > The Amrut Pani mentioned in this site differs from Shankar Deshpande's
                    > > method which uses ghee ( clarified butter ) , a costly ingredient.
                    > > All these organic farming methods rely on the cow dung and cow's urine of
                    > > desi cow with some additional inputs like flour, ghee, honey, brown sugar
                    > > etc.
                    > > In Nf these are not necessary ( may be except in the initial year ).
                    > >
                    > > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 8:08 PM, Tp India <tpindia@...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > > **
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > If these shared earlier I am not aware of it but I liked it very much
                    > > > hence sharing.
                    > > >
                    > > > http://www.natuecofarmingscience.com/amrut_krush.pdf
                    > > >
                    > > > http://www.natuecocityfarming.blogspot.com/
                    > > >
                    > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > > --
                    > > Boovarahan S
                    > > Chennai.
                    > > 09962662717 (Vodafone) , 08825889492 (Videocon)
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    > > ------------------------------------
                    > >
                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >


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