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Re: [fukuoka_farming] Rice sowing in sun-hemp/grass

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  • Nandan Palaparambil
    Hi Boovarahan, I cut the sunhemp using sickle and mulched it. When it came to touch-me-not and other grass, couldn t use the sickle, finally bought a Honda
    Message 1 of 38 , Oct 20, 2011
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      Hi Boovarahan,


      I cut the sunhemp using sickle and mulched it. When it came to touch-me-not and other grass, couldn't use the sickle, finally bought a Honda brush cutter and could cut the complete field in one day. I want to cut the remaining fields and bring the mulch from other fields, so that there is enough mulch. I also have scattered two sacks of goat manure like Fukuoka san used to do using chicken manure for easy decomposition. After that I am planning to allow water for a week and then planning to sow the seeds..


      I was reading natural farming book by Fukuoka san, and it gives details of experiments he did before reaching the current system. So I think we also may end up in doing more experiments..


      If the land is ploughed, you can still go ahead and do the rice and next time you will have enough mulch for doing the NF cultivation. Once you have straw mulch, weed control will be much better. But again, the straw also may be eaten by cows...so situation is difficult, especially when you are not around..One thing you can try after spreading straw is to just flood the field after scattering straw and probably walk on that so it is completely submerged, so that cows don't like to eat that.


      Keep updating about your experiments..I really enjoy these experiments, even though there are failures..


      Regards,

      Nandan
      http://www.farming-experiments.blogspot.com/


      ________________________________
      From: Boovarahan Srinivasan <offtown@...>
      To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 8:02 AM
      Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Rice sowing in sun-hemp/grass


       
      Dear Nandan !

      What is the present status of your rice experiment ?
      In my field , to my astonishment and frustration, the care taker has
      ploughed the land.
      At least I could stop him with just one round of using the power tiller and
      restricted him to leave a patch of five feet wide untilled land to start
      experimenting NF .

      People are hard to change .

      On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 12:40 PM, Nandan Palaparambil <p_k_nandanan@...
      > wrote:

      > **
      >
      >
      > Jason,
      >
      > Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
      >
      > On working with land, I can now feel that if there is sufficient mulch,
      > weed population will be considerably less and rice can compete with weeds.
      > At the same time, planting in the middle of strong weeds without much
      > preparation of mulching, growing some legume is asking for trouble, since
      > weeds always crowd out crops. Also Raju sir's recent photos of rice farming
      > is real inspiration, to see natural farming working.
      >
      > At this moment, I am not confident, if the trampling method will work for
      > me. I am postponing this for next season, since by the time land will be
      > more ready with sufficient mulch and for crops coming through dried straw
      > may be little more easy than pushing through green mulch which gets packed
      > more close and thick.
      >
      > In any other agricultural practice, trampling method is being used? just
      > curious and wanted to know more. In my native, there is a system of rice
      > cultivation which is called as 'Koottumundakan' where two different
      > varieties of rice with different maturing will be sown. When one is
      > harvested, the other one will be cut and may be trampled also, but still it
      > grows back well.This method is practiced well by conventional farmers and it
      > is a prooven one, haven't visited any such fields yet.
      >
      >
      > http://farming-experiments.blogspot.com/2011/08/koottu-mundakan-special-paddy.html
      >
      > Regards,
      >
      > Nandan
      >

      > Boovarahan S
      >
      Chennai.
      09962662717 (Vodafone) , 08825889492 (Videocon)

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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Jason Stewart
      Dear friend Mr. Thanos, Furthermore, Please see these recent photos of Manikis, Panos nature farm in spring: -
      Message 38 of 38 , Nov 1, 2011
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        Dear friend Mr. Thanos,
        Furthermore,

        Please see these recent photos of Manikis, Panos' nature farm in spring:

        -> http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.206736946011426.54418.100000253662337&type=3

        Courtesy of Samuel Bouchet – like a friend of a friend of a friend of mine;

        As encouragement for you to genuinely use late Master Fukuoka, Masanobu's (sensei's) norms as your norms for transitioning your land to a small natural/nature farm.

        And Dear all, everyone,

        Late Master (sensei) Fukuoka, Masanobu's proven/established norms are the transition, in case you didn't realise. The transition to what?
        Transition to true (meaning in English genuine) nature, including genuine human nature. Especially including, because humans are inseparable from nature, included in nature.

        Anyone ever wondered, although there's nothing to wonder about really, that the most prestigious international scientific journal in the current world is titled: Nature,
        simply "Nature".
        There's nothing to wonder or query about that, in fact. The journal nature has, for ever, covered the many subjects of all science, including of physics, astronomy, astrophysics, biology, genetics, plants, animals, including humans, including medicine.
        Some unusual people may find it news that the English language word nature is often normally used to mean all of the universe, from the presumed Big Bang, all history, to all the plants and animals such as human being animals, rather the the often used to mean merely plants and animals not including humans.
        Now the point is...
        the Japanese people,
        the Japanese word shizen (自然) as always regularly frequently used in Japanese language,
        the Japanese word shizen (自然) as so frequently used by late Master (sensei) Fukuoka, Masanobu, for instances even through many of his book titles, let alone his book body–text:
        ..........his original 1975 Sept. Japanese book, re–presented in 1978 in US English as "The One–Straw Revolution", in its original title is: "自然農法 わら一本の革命 (**shizen** nōhō wara ippon no kakumei)
        ..........his original 1975 Dec. Japanese book, translated in 1985 in English as "The Natural Way Of Farming – The Theory and Practice of Green Philosophy" revised 1987 ed ISBN 978-0-87040-613-3, in its original title is: "自然農法 緑の哲学の理論と実践 (**shizen** nōhō - midori no tetsugaku no riron to jissen?) ISBN 978-4-7887-7626-5
        ..........his original 1984 Aug. Japanese book, translated in 1987 in English as "The Road Back to Nature – Regaining the Paradise Lost" 377p ISBN 978-0-87040-673-7, in its original title is: "自然に還る (**shizen** ni kaeru)"; Published by Shunjūsha (春秋社?): 1984 Aug. vii 362p 17p of plates ill. 20cm, out of print ISBN 978-4-393-74104-7; Enlarged and revised edition 1993 April 458p, out of print ISBN 978-4-393-74114-6; New edition 2004 Sept. xvi 488p 8p of plates ill. 18.8x13cm, in print ISBN 978-4-393-74146-7
        : all mean nature/spontaneity (generally), including all of the universe, all of history, all plants and animals such as humans, all reality if you would like to call it that,
        and also 自然 (shizen) meaning in other words true nature, if you would use late Master (sensei) Fukuoka, Masanobu's other words he writes to explain it elsewhere.

        Therefore, when we are talking about nature, the English word, in the context of late Master (sensei) Fukuoka, Masanobu farming, practise, philosophy, or whatever, we are talking about the meaning of the word nature in the same meaning, as the most prestigious international scientific journal in the current world uses the word nature, simply for its title – ie. all the universe, including all of us, all the earth. There's no way to mentally block it/deny it.

        Here:
        -> http://kristof.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/03/11/sympathy-for-japan-and-admiration/
        is an edifying, 'enlightening' and compassionate–for–obvious–reasons New York Times Japan–foreign correspondent journalist's heart–feeling for Japan: "Sympathy for Japan, and Admiration", edifying, 'enlightening' for us because he sheds some more light on the Japanese word for nature: shizen!


        On that appreciation,
        may i wish you all the biggest, best true nature (rather than just wishes, as i usually say here),

        Jason Stewart

        On 29/10/2011, at 1:15 AM, Athanasios Razis wrote:

        > Thank you all for you advices and help.
        >
        > There is no need to worry about the tilling advice as i understood that the tilling was for one last time in order to give the plants the chance to establish. There where a lot of interesting information. I think i will plow one last time and then sow clover, alfa alfa and vetch. That way i will see which one grows the best and i will also put some wheat in seed balls. After that i will do the same again in the spring but with another crop, possibly pearl barley or durum wheat.
        >
        > Thanks again and i will keep you posted.
        >
        > Thanos
        >
        >
        > "Every passing moment is a chance to turn it all around." Vanilla Sky
        >
        > ________________________________
        > Απο: Boovarahan Srinivasan <offtown@...>
        > Προς: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
        > Στάλθηκε: 1:16 μ.μ. Παρασκευή, 28 Οκτωβρίου 2011
        > Θεμα: Re: Σχετ: [fukuoka_farming] New to group
        >
        >
        > Nandan is right !
        >
        > I tried to raise rice seedlings on untilled lands but failed . The
        > rice plants did not grow well and the growth of grass surpassed rice
        > many times despite manual weeding.
        > Unless the field is made soft and porous by previous dense mulching
        > for quite a long period , there is no point in trying to raise plants
        > in untilled lands. The risk of failure is on the higher side. To avoid
        > that, Nandan had advised one time tilling. Hope Raju sir will turn a
        > blind eye temporarily !!
        >
        > On 10/28/11, Nandan Palaparambil <p_k_nandanan@...> wrote:
        > > Dear Raju sir,
        > >
        > >
        > > I was just advising it for one time. If the land is hard without aeration
        > > and just sowing the seeds will just waste it. If there are farmers who
        > > depends on food from what they cultivate , they can not afford failures.
        > >
        > >
        > > See the link below where natural farming experiences of paddy being given.
        > > Here also they suggest tilling for a last time.
        > >
        > >
        > > http://www.permaculture.org.au/resources/farmers_handbook/volume_4/3_no_till.pdf
        > >
        > >
        > > Thanos - My experience is limited, so give a big factor for that while
        > > considering the options !!!
        > >
        > >
        > > Regards,
        > >
        > > Nandan
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ________________________________
        > > From: Raju Titus <rajuktitus@...>
        > > To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
        > > Sent: Friday, October 28, 2011 10:00 AM
        > > Subject: Re: Σχετ: [fukuoka_farming] New to group
        > >
        > > Dear Nandan,
        > > Tilling is very harmful do not advise it. It is not Fukuoka method.
        > > Sorry for this.
        > > Raju
        > >
        > > On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 9:15 AM, Nandan Palaparambil <p_k_nandanan@...
        > >> wrote:
        > >
        > >> **
        > >>
        > >>
        > >> Hi Thanos,
        > >>
        > >> In my opinion also, you can start with tilling and once you have enough
        > >> straw mulch and followed by a cover crop, weed control and aeration will
        > >> be
        > >> much better.
        > >>
        > >> See some photos from Raju sir on rice cultivation which was successful
        > >>
        > >>
        > >> https://picasaweb.google.com/104446847230945407735/GROWINGRICEWITHOUTDOINGANYTHINGAUGUST2011
        > >>
        > >> https://picasaweb.google.com/104446847230945407735
        > >>
        > >> See some of my paddy farming experiment photos..This was transplanted for
        > >> better weed control, but distance was more and also grass was more
        > >> powerful
        > >> and hence it failed, lot of opportunity to learn !!!
        > >>
        > >> https://picasaweb.google.com/nandakumarpalaparambil/PaddyfarmingJune2010
        > >>
        > >> Regards,
        > >>
        > >> Nandan
        > >>
        > >> www.farming-experiments.blogspot.com
        > >>
        > >> ________________________________
        > >> From: Boovarahan Srinivasan <offtown@...>
        > >> To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
        > >> Sent: Friday, October 28, 2011 7:44 AM
        > >> Subject: Re: ����: [fukuoka_farming] New to group
        > >>
        > >>
        > >>
        > >> Hi Thanos,
        > >>
        > >> Though ploughing in agaist NF , you can plough just once for the last time
        > >> to control the weeds .
        > >> I think you know the purpose of ploughing : loosening the soil to support
        > >> easy root growth , air circulation and weed control. Soil loosening can be
        > >> achieved by intense mulching . Worms will take care of air circulation.
        > >> Weed control has to be done by scything / manual weeding in the initial
        > >> stages and thereupon by growing a suitable cover crop which grows dense
        > >> and short.
        > >> Fukuoka flooded his fields to regulate / suppress the growth of clover
        > >> plants and also to decompose weeds. If you don't have water supply to that
        > >> extent, do the de-weeding manually until the cover crops take over.
        > >> There had been a practice in our area ( ancient wisdom ) to intercrop rice
        > >> with black gram. The black gram grows dense and provides the much needed
        > >> nitrogen through its root knots and also provides thick ground cover .
        > >> This
        > >> inhibits the growth of weeds besides maintaining the moisture level in the
        > >> field.
        > >>
        > >> I'd suggest the following method but you have to change it according to
        > >> your climatic / local conditions.
        > >> As an one time measure , plough your land for one last time.
        > >> Flood as long as possible.
        > >> Grow any fast growing plant that provides good vegetative matter ( like
        > >> parthenium , sesbania etc).
        > >> When the cover crops attain sufficent height , say 3 feet , use a crimper
        > >> roller / manual crimper to bend down the mulch .
        > >> Immediately sow the clay coated seeds of the main plant in the gaps .
        > >> Regulate water supply just enough to maintain moisture in the field .
        > >> If you are in a hurry as to not to wait for the growth of cover crops ,
        > >> after ploughing bring in mulch cover like straw , cut grass , vegetable
        > >> leaves etc from outside to provide immediate mulch cover.
        > >>
        > >> There are seniors in our group like Sri Raju sir who can guide you still
        > >> better.
        > >> Good luck.
        > >>
        > >> On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 11:56 PM, Athanasios Razis <
        > >> athanasiosrazis@...
        > >> > wrote:
        > >>
        > >> > **
        > >> >
        > >> >
        > >> > Hi,
        > >> >
        > >> > Thanks for the link. There was a photo there but no information on the
        > >> > rest of my queries. Is that what you use to destroy the weeds and give
        > >> the
        > >> > clover a growing chance?
        > >> >
        > >> > 1) Do i need to plough the area for the first time before sowing clover
        > >> > and then wheat?
        > >> >
        > >> > 2) Since there is no possibility for flooding the field as Fukuoka did
        > >> for
        > >> > cultivating his rice as well as controlling the weeds, has anyone tried
        > >> to
        > >> > do 2 dry crops in a row on a clover or other field cover crop? I am
        > >> worried
        > >> > that unless you flood it is not easy to control the weeds... Again i can
        > >> > not find anything on the subject. I was thinking maybe to do Wheat -
        > >> Pearl
        > >> > barley succession.
        > >> >
        > >> > Kind regards
        > >> > Thanos
        > >> >
        > >> > "Every passing moment is a chance to turn it all around." Vanilla Sky
        > >> >
        > >> > _______
        > >> >
        > >>
        > >> Boovarahan S
        > >> Chennai.
        > >> 09962662717 (Vodafone) , 08825889492 (Videocon)
        > >>
        > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >>
        > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >>
        > >>
        > >>
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --
        > > Raju Titus. Hoshangabad. 461001.India.
        > > +919179738049.
        > > http://picasaweb.google.com/rajuktitus
        > > fukuoka_farming yahoogroup
        > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ------------------------------------
        > >
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        > >
        >
        > --
        > Boovarahan S
        > Chennai.
        > 09962662717 (Vodafone) , 08825889492 (Videocon)
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >



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