Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [fukuoka_farming] Rice sowing in sun-hemp/grass

Expand Messages
  • Jason Stewart
    Dear Nandan, Sun Hemp sounds from Raju like a great way you are doing this season. From here in Oz, I have complete deference to Raju on this Sun Hemp species
    Message 1 of 38 , Oct 1, 2011
    • 0 Attachment
      Dear Nandan,

      Sun Hemp sounds from Raju like a great way you are doing this season. From here in Oz, I have complete deference to Raju on this Sun Hemp species farm use and so on, as i have no experience with it. Living as I do in very different ecosystems here in warm temperate SE Oz (Gondwanaland derived very different ecosystems).
       
      A small–part–tip from my own nature farm direct seeding experience and from ecological restoration direct seeding experience with forest/heathland/grass ecosystems species: 

      Your second described method below is critically good as the better of the two methods (in my experiences as said above) – sowing and getting good germination an appropriate number of weeks before cutting the cover of Sun Hemp & so on and using it as mulch; Including making sure to get good seedling starting–growth before cutting and trampling the Sun Hemp & so on, – trampling by necessity which has the synergy of making the seedlings more robust in their recovering from their trampling. The seedlings need to be appropriately big enough but not too big, appropriate in your circumstances, for recovering from and getting more robust from after the trampling. 

      As we all know, everyones nature–circumstances are necessarily different (naturally so, called Protean in English after the Greek God Proteus – the shape shifting God); 
      So the insights, intuitions and instincts of your own inner–human–nature will have to decide the specifics in your circumstances of when this sowing time is and when this time is that seedlings are appropriately big enough but not too big in your circumstances.

      Late Mr. Fukuoka Masanobu throughout his books in Japanese and English–translations, mentions briefly, sometimes subtly and relatively casually mentions some of the key steps of his methods – mentions them in passing as if they are not totally critical to his methods, rather as if they are merely somewhat important in his method (meaning he covers a lot of steps very briefly and quickly). Although in his movie in India "Fukuoka Masanobu goes to India 1997" he is for one example much more emphatic about some steps of the methods, in his visits in various Indian nature farms. 
      This is again another example of his clearly really deep humility, experience of good nothingness behind everything, subtlety–about and deference–to the endless variety of nature's ways, rather than dogmatically emphasising his one set of ways only. His experience of good nothingness behind everything, good nothingness which is pregnant and ready to explode with the universe of 'things–ness' of every possible (protean) form and shape. Before the Big–Bang: What? – this rhetorical question is how i get westerners here in Australia of a western scientific worldview in conversation with me to appreciate the intended meaning of this kind of nothingness – pronounced 'mu' in Japanese in English phonetic pronunciation letters called romaji Japanese. 
      His principles we all know are clear and derive directly, as principles, from articulating nature's very obvious own ways, as for his and all instances of nature's own ways in how forests grow themselves. 
      The steps of the methods are well known and clearly known as a package–deal that are critically required all together without separation, for any one of the steps to succeed, and for to really meet these, nature's principles.

      So in summary, my only tip to you, my small tip, is that your second described method below is a critical part of the package–deal of steps your are doing this season with Sun Hemp and other 'weeds' (meaning spontaneous plants, so called 'weeds' for convenience of writing quickly here), given how wonderfully thick biomass you describe it as having all grown. 


      Wishing your nature very well and all the best (intuitively)!,

      Jason Stewart

      PS. beforehand, i sent this message above soon after your message, but it did not arrive in Yahoo – this group.


      ________________________________
      From: Nandan <p_k_nandanan@...>
      To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 2:53 AM
      Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Rice sowing in sun-hemp/grass


       
      Hi All,

      I am looking for some suggestions/insights on rice sowing in sun-hemp cover.

      Sun-hemp has been growing in my rice field for close to 1.5 months now.Some of the area has touch-me-not and other grasses as well. My plan is to sow the rice seeds in sun-hemp cover/grass, cut and mulch sun-hemp/grass. But since the mulch will be thick, I fear the seeds won't be able to push through. Typically mulch size of 1 to 3" thick will avoid the weeds and this will hold good for the rice sown in mulch also.

      Other option is to sow over the sun-hemp/grass initially and then water it so that rice seeds will sprout, later cut and mulch the sun-hemp. This will be identical to what Fukuoka san used to do, where he sows the barley over standing rice with clover and later spread the straw from barley..

      I had seen some organic-no-till videos, where they usually plant over the dried mulch by cutting and opening with a machine.

      Any suggestions will be appreciated.

      Regards,
      Nandan
      www.farming-experiment.blogspot.com 

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Jason Stewart
      Dear friend Mr. Thanos, Furthermore, Please see these recent photos of Manikis, Panos nature farm in spring: -
      Message 38 of 38 , Nov 1, 2011
      • 0 Attachment
        Dear friend Mr. Thanos,
        Furthermore,

        Please see these recent photos of Manikis, Panos' nature farm in spring:

        -> http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.206736946011426.54418.100000253662337&type=3

        Courtesy of Samuel Bouchet – like a friend of a friend of a friend of mine;

        As encouragement for you to genuinely use late Master Fukuoka, Masanobu's (sensei's) norms as your norms for transitioning your land to a small natural/nature farm.

        And Dear all, everyone,

        Late Master (sensei) Fukuoka, Masanobu's proven/established norms are the transition, in case you didn't realise. The transition to what?
        Transition to true (meaning in English genuine) nature, including genuine human nature. Especially including, because humans are inseparable from nature, included in nature.

        Anyone ever wondered, although there's nothing to wonder about really, that the most prestigious international scientific journal in the current world is titled: Nature,
        simply "Nature".
        There's nothing to wonder or query about that, in fact. The journal nature has, for ever, covered the many subjects of all science, including of physics, astronomy, astrophysics, biology, genetics, plants, animals, including humans, including medicine.
        Some unusual people may find it news that the English language word nature is often normally used to mean all of the universe, from the presumed Big Bang, all history, to all the plants and animals such as human being animals, rather the the often used to mean merely plants and animals not including humans.
        Now the point is...
        the Japanese people,
        the Japanese word shizen (自然) as always regularly frequently used in Japanese language,
        the Japanese word shizen (自然) as so frequently used by late Master (sensei) Fukuoka, Masanobu, for instances even through many of his book titles, let alone his book body–text:
        ..........his original 1975 Sept. Japanese book, re–presented in 1978 in US English as "The One–Straw Revolution", in its original title is: "自然農法 わら一本の革命 (**shizen** nōhō wara ippon no kakumei)
        ..........his original 1975 Dec. Japanese book, translated in 1985 in English as "The Natural Way Of Farming – The Theory and Practice of Green Philosophy" revised 1987 ed ISBN 978-0-87040-613-3, in its original title is: "自然農法 緑の哲学の理論と実践 (**shizen** nōhō - midori no tetsugaku no riron to jissen?) ISBN 978-4-7887-7626-5
        ..........his original 1984 Aug. Japanese book, translated in 1987 in English as "The Road Back to Nature – Regaining the Paradise Lost" 377p ISBN 978-0-87040-673-7, in its original title is: "自然に還る (**shizen** ni kaeru)"; Published by Shunjūsha (春秋社?): 1984 Aug. vii 362p 17p of plates ill. 20cm, out of print ISBN 978-4-393-74104-7; Enlarged and revised edition 1993 April 458p, out of print ISBN 978-4-393-74114-6; New edition 2004 Sept. xvi 488p 8p of plates ill. 18.8x13cm, in print ISBN 978-4-393-74146-7
        : all mean nature/spontaneity (generally), including all of the universe, all of history, all plants and animals such as humans, all reality if you would like to call it that,
        and also 自然 (shizen) meaning in other words true nature, if you would use late Master (sensei) Fukuoka, Masanobu's other words he writes to explain it elsewhere.

        Therefore, when we are talking about nature, the English word, in the context of late Master (sensei) Fukuoka, Masanobu farming, practise, philosophy, or whatever, we are talking about the meaning of the word nature in the same meaning, as the most prestigious international scientific journal in the current world uses the word nature, simply for its title – ie. all the universe, including all of us, all the earth. There's no way to mentally block it/deny it.

        Here:
        -> http://kristof.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/03/11/sympathy-for-japan-and-admiration/
        is an edifying, 'enlightening' and compassionate–for–obvious–reasons New York Times Japan–foreign correspondent journalist's heart–feeling for Japan: "Sympathy for Japan, and Admiration", edifying, 'enlightening' for us because he sheds some more light on the Japanese word for nature: shizen!


        On that appreciation,
        may i wish you all the biggest, best true nature (rather than just wishes, as i usually say here),

        Jason Stewart

        On 29/10/2011, at 1:15 AM, Athanasios Razis wrote:

        > Thank you all for you advices and help.
        >
        > There is no need to worry about the tilling advice as i understood that the tilling was for one last time in order to give the plants the chance to establish. There where a lot of interesting information. I think i will plow one last time and then sow clover, alfa alfa and vetch. That way i will see which one grows the best and i will also put some wheat in seed balls. After that i will do the same again in the spring but with another crop, possibly pearl barley or durum wheat.
        >
        > Thanks again and i will keep you posted.
        >
        > Thanos
        >
        >
        > "Every passing moment is a chance to turn it all around." Vanilla Sky
        >
        > ________________________________
        > Απο: Boovarahan Srinivasan <offtown@...>
        > Προς: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
        > Στάλθηκε: 1:16 μ.μ. Παρασκευή, 28 Οκτωβρίου 2011
        > Θεμα: Re: Σχετ: [fukuoka_farming] New to group
        >
        >
        > Nandan is right !
        >
        > I tried to raise rice seedlings on untilled lands but failed . The
        > rice plants did not grow well and the growth of grass surpassed rice
        > many times despite manual weeding.
        > Unless the field is made soft and porous by previous dense mulching
        > for quite a long period , there is no point in trying to raise plants
        > in untilled lands. The risk of failure is on the higher side. To avoid
        > that, Nandan had advised one time tilling. Hope Raju sir will turn a
        > blind eye temporarily !!
        >
        > On 10/28/11, Nandan Palaparambil <p_k_nandanan@...> wrote:
        > > Dear Raju sir,
        > >
        > >
        > > I was just advising it for one time. If the land is hard without aeration
        > > and just sowing the seeds will just waste it. If there are farmers who
        > > depends on food from what they cultivate , they can not afford failures.
        > >
        > >
        > > See the link below where natural farming experiences of paddy being given.
        > > Here also they suggest tilling for a last time.
        > >
        > >
        > > http://www.permaculture.org.au/resources/farmers_handbook/volume_4/3_no_till.pdf
        > >
        > >
        > > Thanos - My experience is limited, so give a big factor for that while
        > > considering the options !!!
        > >
        > >
        > > Regards,
        > >
        > > Nandan
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ________________________________
        > > From: Raju Titus <rajuktitus@...>
        > > To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
        > > Sent: Friday, October 28, 2011 10:00 AM
        > > Subject: Re: Σχετ: [fukuoka_farming] New to group
        > >
        > > Dear Nandan,
        > > Tilling is very harmful do not advise it. It is not Fukuoka method.
        > > Sorry for this.
        > > Raju
        > >
        > > On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 9:15 AM, Nandan Palaparambil <p_k_nandanan@...
        > >> wrote:
        > >
        > >> **
        > >>
        > >>
        > >> Hi Thanos,
        > >>
        > >> In my opinion also, you can start with tilling and once you have enough
        > >> straw mulch and followed by a cover crop, weed control and aeration will
        > >> be
        > >> much better.
        > >>
        > >> See some photos from Raju sir on rice cultivation which was successful
        > >>
        > >>
        > >> https://picasaweb.google.com/104446847230945407735/GROWINGRICEWITHOUTDOINGANYTHINGAUGUST2011
        > >>
        > >> https://picasaweb.google.com/104446847230945407735
        > >>
        > >> See some of my paddy farming experiment photos..This was transplanted for
        > >> better weed control, but distance was more and also grass was more
        > >> powerful
        > >> and hence it failed, lot of opportunity to learn !!!
        > >>
        > >> https://picasaweb.google.com/nandakumarpalaparambil/PaddyfarmingJune2010
        > >>
        > >> Regards,
        > >>
        > >> Nandan
        > >>
        > >> www.farming-experiments.blogspot.com
        > >>
        > >> ________________________________
        > >> From: Boovarahan Srinivasan <offtown@...>
        > >> To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
        > >> Sent: Friday, October 28, 2011 7:44 AM
        > >> Subject: Re: ����: [fukuoka_farming] New to group
        > >>
        > >>
        > >>
        > >> Hi Thanos,
        > >>
        > >> Though ploughing in agaist NF , you can plough just once for the last time
        > >> to control the weeds .
        > >> I think you know the purpose of ploughing : loosening the soil to support
        > >> easy root growth , air circulation and weed control. Soil loosening can be
        > >> achieved by intense mulching . Worms will take care of air circulation.
        > >> Weed control has to be done by scything / manual weeding in the initial
        > >> stages and thereupon by growing a suitable cover crop which grows dense
        > >> and short.
        > >> Fukuoka flooded his fields to regulate / suppress the growth of clover
        > >> plants and also to decompose weeds. If you don't have water supply to that
        > >> extent, do the de-weeding manually until the cover crops take over.
        > >> There had been a practice in our area ( ancient wisdom ) to intercrop rice
        > >> with black gram. The black gram grows dense and provides the much needed
        > >> nitrogen through its root knots and also provides thick ground cover .
        > >> This
        > >> inhibits the growth of weeds besides maintaining the moisture level in the
        > >> field.
        > >>
        > >> I'd suggest the following method but you have to change it according to
        > >> your climatic / local conditions.
        > >> As an one time measure , plough your land for one last time.
        > >> Flood as long as possible.
        > >> Grow any fast growing plant that provides good vegetative matter ( like
        > >> parthenium , sesbania etc).
        > >> When the cover crops attain sufficent height , say 3 feet , use a crimper
        > >> roller / manual crimper to bend down the mulch .
        > >> Immediately sow the clay coated seeds of the main plant in the gaps .
        > >> Regulate water supply just enough to maintain moisture in the field .
        > >> If you are in a hurry as to not to wait for the growth of cover crops ,
        > >> after ploughing bring in mulch cover like straw , cut grass , vegetable
        > >> leaves etc from outside to provide immediate mulch cover.
        > >>
        > >> There are seniors in our group like Sri Raju sir who can guide you still
        > >> better.
        > >> Good luck.
        > >>
        > >> On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 11:56 PM, Athanasios Razis <
        > >> athanasiosrazis@...
        > >> > wrote:
        > >>
        > >> > **
        > >> >
        > >> >
        > >> > Hi,
        > >> >
        > >> > Thanks for the link. There was a photo there but no information on the
        > >> > rest of my queries. Is that what you use to destroy the weeds and give
        > >> the
        > >> > clover a growing chance?
        > >> >
        > >> > 1) Do i need to plough the area for the first time before sowing clover
        > >> > and then wheat?
        > >> >
        > >> > 2) Since there is no possibility for flooding the field as Fukuoka did
        > >> for
        > >> > cultivating his rice as well as controlling the weeds, has anyone tried
        > >> to
        > >> > do 2 dry crops in a row on a clover or other field cover crop? I am
        > >> worried
        > >> > that unless you flood it is not easy to control the weeds... Again i can
        > >> > not find anything on the subject. I was thinking maybe to do Wheat -
        > >> Pearl
        > >> > barley succession.
        > >> >
        > >> > Kind regards
        > >> > Thanos
        > >> >
        > >> > "Every passing moment is a chance to turn it all around." Vanilla Sky
        > >> >
        > >> > _______
        > >> >
        > >>
        > >> Boovarahan S
        > >> Chennai.
        > >> 09962662717 (Vodafone) , 08825889492 (Videocon)
        > >>
        > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >>
        > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >>
        > >>
        > >>
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --
        > > Raju Titus. Hoshangabad. 461001.India.
        > > +919179738049.
        > > http://picasaweb.google.com/rajuktitus
        > > fukuoka_farming yahoogroup
        > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ------------------------------------
        > >
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        > >
        >
        > --
        > Boovarahan S
        > Chennai.
        > 09962662717 (Vodafone) , 08825889492 (Videocon)
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.