Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: [fukuoka_farming] Re: A nice link

Expand Messages
  • Ruthie Aquino
    Hi Harish, In my humble opinion, since we are not at the beginning of Creation but at the start of the 21st century then we have to do with the conditions and
    Message 1 of 23 , Aug 3, 2011
      Hi Harish,
      In my humble opinion, since we are not at the beginning of Creation but at
      the start of the 21st century then we have to do with the conditions and
      circumstances others through the ages have left us or imposed on us.
      One such thing is farming.
      If we look at present-day hunter-gatherer tribes they have no crops at all,
      they just pick from the forest.
      Then there are more "advanced" communities that have some root crops...etc.,
      but nothing much more. I think they have never heard people discussing
      planting and how to improve it. They just plant. No questions asked.
      Those tribes or ethnic groups have been cut off from civilization, but we
      haven't. We have heard of bumper crops, and Guiness records of the biggest
      and the best, and per capita income and gross national product.
      So...right now after having been introduced to natural farming we try hard
      to do whatever we can.
      I salute Booze whose will is to add nothing to what I gather is a harsh
      environment for his crops. His faith in nature is absolute and he is brave
      enough to go on with his initial idea of do-nothing agriculture.
      However as I said we do not have a clean slate with which to start but one
      upon which man has left his imprints.
      So : to each his own, we try hard to be as close to nature as possible. As
      I said earlier we need to support one another because we
      encounter opposition and incomprehension from those not acquainted with the
      Fukuoka way.
      best
      RUTHIE
      2011/8/3 Harish Amur <harishamur@...>

      > **
      >
      >
      > I have a very basic question: How can crop farming be natural? Where do we
      > find crops that grow the way they grow in our farm in Nature? Where did
      > Fukuoka San see paddy crops growing naturally?
      >
      > I ask this out of ignorance and not to challenge anything. Please do not
      > misunderstand me.
      >
      > On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 6:24 PM, Boovarahan Srinivasan <offtown@...>wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      > > May be that is not quite often but rarely.
      > >
      > > On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 4:48 PM, yajnesh shetty <yajnesh@...>
      > wrote:
      > >
      > > > **
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Fukuoka did use chicken manure from a neighbouring poultry farm.
      > > >
      > > > ________________________________
      > > > From: Boovarahan Srinivasan <offtown@...>
      > > > To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
      > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 3, 2011 4:37 PM
      > > >
      > > > Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Re: A nice link
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Ok !
      > > >
      > > > Bringing in any outside thing is not considered as natural farming.
      > > > Though Fukuoka did not bring in anything from outside the ducks did it
      > > for
      > > > him.
      > > > What if one doesn't grow livestock ?
      > > >
      > > > Boovarahan S
      > > > Chennai.
      > > > 09962662717 (Vodafone) , 08825889492 (Videocon)
      > > >
      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > >
      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > --
      > > Boovarahan S
      > > Chennai.
      > > 09962662717 (Vodafone) , 08825889492 (Videocon)
      > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ------------------------------------
      > >
      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Boovarahan Srinivasan
      Growing or cultivation is itself artificial as we have a prejudice on growing one kind of crop over the others. So logically there can not be 100 % natural
      Message 2 of 23 , Aug 3, 2011
        Growing or cultivation is itself artificial as we have a prejudice on
        growing one kind of crop over the others. So logically there can not be 100
        % natural farming . But what we can do is to mimic nature in producing the
        grains / vegetables of our needs without killing other plants. That's why I
        never uproot any plant but trim the size . In my sugarcane fields I have not
        done this trimming too and allowed all weeds and grasses to grow
        un-interrupted . At present my sugarcane plants just hold their lives
        without any significant growth from the day of transplanting. I am still
        hoping that they would soon pick up growth.

        On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 10:18 PM, Harish Amur <harishamur@...> wrote:

        > **
        >
        >
        > I have a very basic question: How can crop farming be natural? Where do we
        > find crops that grow the way they grow in our farm in Nature? Where did
        > Fukuoka San see paddy crops growing naturally?
        >
        > I ask this out of ignorance and not to challenge anything. Please do not
        > misunderstand me.
        >

        Boovarahan S
        Chennai.
        09962662717 (Vodafone) , 08825889492 (Videocon)


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Harish Amur
        I had anticipated that you mistake me and so I had added an additional line ... Anyway, I am not against NF. I am a starter, but I have a very strong will to
        Message 3 of 23 , Aug 3, 2011
          I had anticipated that you mistake me and so I had added an additional line
          :)

          Anyway, I am not against NF. I am a starter, but I have a very strong will
          to not use chemicals in my field. We planted sugarcane in Feb '11 and they
          have grown 8' tall now. We gave them a bit of 'jeevamruta', which is made
          out of cow dung, cow urine, some jaggery and some flour. If we have a cow in
          our farm next year, none of the materials that I list here would have to be
          brought from outside. Further, this was done only twice. The weeds in the
          sugar cane field are left to themselves. They are not cut. However there is
          one weed which is quite dangerous (local knowledge) which we will try to
          remove in the interest of the people who work there. And I believe that this
          has to be done.

          It has been 2 years now that we are growing crops naturally - to the extent
          possible. And we have got good yield too. However, I have not been able to
          convince our farmers on no-till and I am also quite confused on this
          subject. The tilling is done using bullocks and wooden tools. These are not
          harsh to the land. This opens up the land during the summer to the sun. The
          insects are dead but are not removed. They reappear in abundance during the
          rainy season. I felt that this is a natural process, since the land grows
          dry naturally. Even the tall trees lose all their leaves by March. March and
          April are the dry months. By May all the leaves reappear and the insect
          activity resumes. Much like the seeds, the insect eggs or larva hibernates
          during summer. Ants are very active during these months.

          Though I wish to move to a no-till farming, I am finding it hard to bring
          about that change in my farm, as the farmers are used to the bullock
          assisted farming. They can seed the farm faster this way. I tell them not to
          weed the farm. They listen to me selectively!

          If I understand properly, the greatest contribution of Fukuoka-San was to
          break the 'rigidity' and 'routine' of farming. He listened to his heart. If
          we become rigid by saying that we should follow what he did and not deviate
          a bit, it may not be right. As Boovarahan has said earlier, all of his
          practices may not work in our farm. From this point of view, I wanted to see
          if I can visit a place where I can get to see crops growing naturally. I
          have visited a forest and have tried to understand the ambiance to whatever
          extent possible.

          Regards,
          Harish





          On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 7:16 AM, Boovarahan Srinivasan <offtown@...>wrote:

          > **
          >
          >
          > Growing or cultivation is itself artificial as we have a prejudice on
          > growing one kind of crop over the others. So logically there can not be 100
          > % natural farming . But what we can do is to mimic nature in producing the
          > grains / vegetables of our needs without killing other plants. That's why I
          > never uproot any plant but trim the size . In my sugarcane fields I have
          > not
          > done this trimming too and allowed all weeds and grasses to grow
          > un-interrupted . At present my sugarcane plants just hold their lives
          > without any significant growth from the day of transplanting. I am still
          > hoping that they would soon pick up growth.
          >
          > On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 10:18 PM, Harish Amur <harishamur@...> wrote:
          >
          > > **
          >
          > >
          > >
          > > I have a very basic question: How can crop farming be natural? Where do
          > we
          > > find crops that grow the way they grow in our farm in Nature? Where did
          > > Fukuoka San see paddy crops growing naturally?
          > >
          > > I ask this out of ignorance and not to challenge anything. Please do not
          > > misunderstand me.
          > >
          >
          > Boovarahan S
          > Chennai.
          > 09962662717 (Vodafone) , 08825889492 (Videocon)
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Sumant Joshi
          Harish, I have heard of this Jivamruta. In Maharashtra it is called Amrut Paani. Amrut is the elixir of eternal life and paani is off course water. Proponents
          Message 4 of 23 , Aug 3, 2011
            Harish, I have heard of this Jivamruta. In Maharashtra it is called Amrut Paani. Amrut is the elixir of eternal life and paani is off course water. Proponents of this thing are fanatical about it's uses. This is a mixture of 400 litres of water, about  5 kilos of cow dung, 5 litres of cow urine (Indian natural farmers insist that the 'local' cows should be used, not the imported cows) and hold your breath, half a kilo each of honey and clarified butter (desi ghee) again from a local cow's milk. Mix the whole thing and apply it to a totally barren acre of land. It supposed to rejuvenate the soil very quickly. You are also supposed to use about 5 kilos of soil from beneath the Banyan tree.



            Sent from my BSNL landline B-fone


            Warm regards,

            Sumant Joshi
            Tel - 09370010424, 0253-2361161



            >________________________________
            >From: Harish Amur <harishamur@...>
            >To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
            >Sent: Thursday, 4 August 2011 10:01 AM
            >Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Re: A nice link
            >
            >

            >I had anticipated that you mistake me and so I had added an additional line
            >:)
            >
            >Anyway, I am not against NF. I am a starter, but I have a very strong will
            >to not use chemicals in my field. We planted sugarcane in Feb '11 and they
            >have grown 8' tall now. We gave them a bit of 'jeevamruta', which is made
            >out of cow dung, cow urine, some jaggery and some flour. If we have a cow in
            >our farm next year, none of the materials that I list here would have to be
            >brought from outside. Further, this was done only twice. The weeds in the
            >sugar cane field are left to themselves. They are not cut. However there is
            >one weed which is quite dangerous (local knowledge) which we will try to
            >remove in the interest of the people who work there. And I believe that this
            >has to be done.
            >
            >It has been 2 years now that we are growing crops naturally - to the extent
            >possible. And we have got good yield too. However, I have not been able to
            >convince our farmers on no-till and I am also quite confused on this
            >subject. The tilling is done using bullocks and wooden tools. These are not
            >harsh to the land. This opens up the land during the summer to the sun. The
            >insects are dead but are not removed. They reappear in abundance during the
            >rainy season. I felt that this is a natural process, since the land grows
            >dry naturally. Even the tall trees lose all their leaves by March. March and
            >April are the dry months. By May all the leaves reappear and the insect
            >activity resumes. Much like the seeds, the insect eggs or larva hibernates
            >during summer. Ants are very active during these months.
            >
            >Though I wish to move to a no-till farming, I am finding it hard to bring
            >about that change in my farm, as the farmers are used to the bullock
            >assisted farming. They can seed the farm faster this way. I tell them not to
            >weed the farm. They listen to me selectively!
            >
            >If I understand properly, the greatest contribution of Fukuoka-San was to
            >break the 'rigidity' and 'routine' of farming. He listened to his heart. If
            >we become rigid by saying that we should follow what he did and not deviate
            >a bit, it may not be right. As Boovarahan has said earlier, all of his
            >practices may not work in our farm. From this point of view, I wanted to see
            >if I can visit a place where I can get to see crops growing naturally. I
            >have visited a forest and have tried to understand the ambiance to whatever
            >extent possible.
            >
            >Regards,
            >Harish
            >
            >On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 7:16 AM, Boovarahan Srinivasan <offtown@...>wrote:
            >
            >> **
            >>
            >>
            >> Growing or cultivation is itself artificial as we have a prejudice on
            >> growing one kind of crop over the others. So logically there can not be 100
            >> % natural farming . But what we can do is to mimic nature in producing the
            >> grains / vegetables of our needs without killing other plants. That's why I
            >> never uproot any plant but trim the size . In my sugarcane fields I have
            >> not
            >> done this trimming too and allowed all weeds and grasses to grow
            >> un-interrupted . At present my sugarcane plants just hold their lives
            >> without any significant growth from the day of transplanting. I am still
            >> hoping that they would soon pick up growth.
            >>
            >> On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 10:18 PM, Harish Amur <harishamur@...> wrote:
            >>
            >> > **
            >>
            >> >
            >> >
            >> > I have a very basic question: How can crop farming be natural? Where do
            >> we
            >> > find crops that grow the way they grow in our farm in Nature? Where did
            >> > Fukuoka San see paddy crops growing naturally?
            >> >
            >> > I ask this out of ignorance and not to challenge anything. Please do not
            >> > misunderstand me.
            >> >
            >>
            >> Boovarahan S
            >> Chennai.
            >> 09962662717 (Vodafone) , 08825889492 (Videocon)
            >>
            >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >
            >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Sumant Joshi
            Well we have to grow food, don t we? otherwise we would have to turn hunter gatherers. so maybe it isn t natural in the strictest sense of the word but
            Message 5 of 23 , Aug 3, 2011
              Well we have to 'grow' food, don't we? otherwise we would have to turn hunter gatherers. so maybe it isn't 'natural' in the strictest sense of the word but what Fukuoka San said was to 'imitate' nature' 



              Sent from my BSNL landline B-fone


              Warm regards,

              Sumant Joshi
              Tel - 09370010424, 0253-2361161



              >________________________________
              >From: Boovarahan Srinivasan <offtown@...>
              >To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
              >Sent: Thursday, 4 August 2011 7:16 AM
              >Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Re: A nice link
              >
              >

              >Growing or cultivation is itself artificial as we have a prejudice on
              >growing one kind of crop over the others. So logically there can not be 100
              >% natural farming . But what we can do is to mimic nature in producing the
              >grains / vegetables of our needs without killing other plants. That's why I
              >never uproot any plant but trim the size . In my sugarcane fields I have not
              >done this trimming too and allowed all weeds and grasses to grow
              >un-interrupted . At present my sugarcane plants just hold their lives
              >without any significant growth from the day of transplanting. I am still
              >hoping that they would soon pick up growth.
              >
              >On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 10:18 PM, Harish Amur <harishamur@...> wrote:
              >
              >> **
              >>
              >>
              >> I have a very basic question: How can crop farming be natural? Where do we
              >> find crops that grow the way they grow in our farm in Nature? Where did
              >> Fukuoka San see paddy crops growing naturally?
              >>
              >> I ask this out of ignorance and not to challenge anything. Please do not
              >> misunderstand me.
              >>
              >
              >Boovarahan S
              >Chennai.
              >09962662717 (Vodafone) , 08825889492 (Videocon)
              >
              >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Sumant Joshi
              I like your sense of humour, Ruthie  Sent from my BSNL landline B-fone Warm regards, Sumant Joshi Tel - 09370010424, 0253-2361161 ... [Non-text portions of
              Message 6 of 23 , Aug 3, 2011
                I like your sense of humour, Ruthie 





                Sent from my BSNL landline B-fone


                Warm regards,

                Sumant Joshi
                Tel - 09370010424, 0253-2361161



                >________________________________
                >From: Ruthie Aquino <ruthieaquino1@...>
                >To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                >Sent: Wednesday, 3 August 2011 10:50 PM
                >Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Re: A nice link
                >
                >Hi Harish,
                >In my humble opinion, since we are not at the beginning of Creation but at
                >the start of the 21st century then we have to do with the conditions and
                >circumstances others through the ages have left us or imposed on us.
                >One such thing is farming.
                >If we look at present-day hunter-gatherer tribes they have no crops at all,
                >they just pick from the forest.
                >Then there are more "advanced" communities that have some root crops...etc.,
                >but nothing much more.  I think they have never heard people discussing
                >planting and how to improve it.  They just plant.  No questions asked.
                >Those tribes or ethnic groups have been cut off from civilization, but we
                >haven't.  We have heard of bumper crops, and Guiness records of the biggest
                >and the best, and per capita income and gross national product.
                >So...right now after having been introduced to natural farming we try hard
                >to do whatever we can.
                >I salute Booze whose will is to add nothing to what I gather is a harsh
                >environment for his crops.  His faith in nature is absolute and he is brave
                >enough to go on with his initial idea of do-nothing agriculture.
                >However as I said we do not have a clean slate with which to start but one
                >upon which man has left his imprints.
                >So : to each his own, we try hard to be as close to nature as possible.  As
                >I said earlier we need to support one another because we
                >encounter opposition and incomprehension from those not acquainted with the
                >Fukuoka way.
                >best
                >RUTHIE
                >2011/8/3 Harish Amur <harishamur@...>
                >
                >> **
                >>
                >>
                >> I have a very basic question: How can crop farming be natural? Where do we
                >> find crops that grow the way they grow in our farm in Nature? Where did
                >> Fukuoka San see paddy crops growing naturally?
                >>
                >> I ask this out of ignorance and not to challenge anything. Please do not
                >> misunderstand me.
                >>
                >> On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 6:24 PM, Boovarahan Srinivasan <offtown@...>wrote:
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >> > May be that is not quite often but rarely.
                >> >
                >> > On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 4:48 PM, yajnesh shetty <yajnesh@...>
                >> wrote:
                >> >
                >> > > **
                >> > >
                >> > >
                >> > > Fukuoka did use chicken manure from a neighbouring poultry farm.
                >> > >
                >> > > ________________________________
                >> > > From: Boovarahan Srinivasan <offtown@...>
                >> > > To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                >> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 3, 2011 4:37 PM
                >> > >
                >> > > Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Re: A nice link
                >> > >
                >> > >
                >> > > Ok !
                >> > >
                >> > > Bringing in any outside thing is not considered as natural farming.
                >> > > Though Fukuoka did not bring in anything from outside the ducks did it
                >> > for
                >> > > him.
                >> > > What if one doesn't grow livestock ?
                >> > >
                >> > > Boovarahan S
                >> > > Chennai.
                >> > > 09962662717 (Vodafone) , 08825889492 (Videocon)
                >> > >
                >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >> > >
                >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >> > >
                >> > >
                >> > >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> > --
                >> > Boovarahan S
                >> > Chennai.
                >> > 09962662717 (Vodafone) , 08825889492 (Videocon)
                >> >
                >> >
                >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> > ------------------------------------
                >> >
                >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >>
                >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >>
                >> 
                >>
                >
                >
                >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                >------------------------------------
                >
                >Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Boovarahan Srinivasan
                I have not mistaken you Harish ! I too tread on the same way. I selected a wrong time to sow the sugarcane seedlings and well, that may be one of the reason
                Message 7 of 23 , Aug 4, 2011
                  I have not mistaken you Harish !

                  I too tread on the same way.

                  I selected a wrong time to sow the sugarcane seedlings and well, that may be
                  one of the reason for the non-growth . Yet I am waiting patiently for mother
                  nature to start her work.

                  On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 7:16 AM, Boovarahan Srinivasan <offtown@...>wrote:

                  > Growing or cultivation is itself artificial as we have a prejudice on
                  > growing one kind of crop over the others. So logically there can not be 100
                  > % natural farming . But what we can do is to mimic nature in producing the
                  > grains / vegetables of our needs without killing other plants. That's why I
                  > never uproot any plant but trim the size . In my sugarcane fields I have not
                  > done this trimming too and allowed all weeds and grasses to grow
                  > un-interrupted . At present my sugarcane plants just hold their lives
                  > without any significant growth from the day of transplanting. I am still
                  > hoping that they would soon pick up growth.
                  >
                  > On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 10:18 PM, Harish Amur <harishamur@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >> **
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> I have a very basic question: How can crop farming be natural? Where do we
                  >> find crops that grow the way they grow in our farm in Nature? Where did
                  >> Fukuoka San see paddy crops growing naturally?
                  >>
                  >> I ask this out of ignorance and not to challenge anything. Please do not
                  >> misunderstand me.
                  >>
                  >
                  > Boovarahan S
                  > Chennai.
                  > 09962662717 (Vodafone) , 08825889492 (Videocon)
                  >
                  >


                  --
                  Boovarahan S
                  Chennai.
                  09962662717 (Vodafone) , 08825889492 (Videocon)


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.