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Re: [fukuoka_farming] Re: A nice link

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  • Sumant Joshi
    Speaking of rock powder, I expect everyone has heard of rock/ stone mulching  Sent from my BSNL landline B-fone Warm regards, Sumant Joshi Tel - 09370010424,
    Message 1 of 23 , Aug 1, 2011
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      Speaking of rock powder, I expect everyone has heard of rock/ stone mulching 



      Sent from my BSNL landline B-fone


      Warm regards,

      Sumant Joshi
      Tel - 09370010424, 0253-2361161



      >________________________________
      >From: Boovarahan Srinivasan <offtown@...>
      >To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
      >Sent: Tuesday, 2 August 2011 7:27 AM
      >Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Re: A nice link
      >
      >

      >Thanks Ruthie !
      >Most of the newcomers to NF think that Fukuoka's "do nothing farming" is
      >just sitting idle which Fukuoka himself had refuted. And copying his methods
      >which are suited to Japanese climatic conditions may not work in other
      >countries. What we should do is to imbibe his ideas and change them a little
      >bit to suit the local climatic conditions. Everybody knows that Fukuoka used
      >to scatter chicken droppings once in a while in his farms. So giving
      >external inputs is not a thing that Fukuoka opposed. It is the process as a
      >whole he tried to change (eg: tilling / weeding etc ). And artificial
      >chemicals do more harm to nature and they should be avoided at any cost.
      >Adding other inputs like cow dung , fine rock powder etc may be done once in
      >a while , that too when changing to natural farming methods in a field where
      >chemical farming had been practiced earlier.
      >This is my view and I invite members to share their experiences in this
      >regard .
      >
      >Thanks.
      >
      >On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 3:22 AM, Ruthie Aquino <ruthieaquino1@...>wrote:
      >
      >> Hello Kostas,
      >> I was a bit like you, a bit surprized to hear of additives in this group
      >> useful though they be.
      >> However in one of his writings Fukuoka-san said he was sad a road was built
      >> between his ricefield and his duck pens, because before that his ducks
      >> could
      >> freely roam in his fields to pick the slugs and snails, and leave their
      >> droppings.
      >> In other words I think he was not fully opposed to some kind of help from
      >> nature.
      >> When we talk of farming here I understand we not only talk of rice or grain
      >> farming. We also talk of fruit trees and vegetables and possibly
      >> ornamentals. Sepp Holzer uses heavy stones instead of stakes to help his
      >> young trees establish and take root. He says it works perfectly well. I
      >> also suppose there is some sort of erosion happening to the stones, and
      >> maybe that is the kind of stone dust that can be acceptable to natural
      >> farming.
      >> In some southeast Asian countries we also have naturally occuring lahar
      >> or the fine particles spewed by erupting volcanoes. They are reputed to
      >> improve soil conditon when applied properly, please don't ask me how
      >> because
      >> I do not know. In European mines we have scories which are a by-product of
      >> mining and it is also reputed to improve soil fertility. Those mines are
      >> mostly closed now of course but I heard of it at the time.
      >> What I'm trying to say is that the above link is interesting anyway, even
      >> if
      >> we do not agree with what it says. It shows how capitalism can smother
      >> what
      >> would otherwise be useful findings. Right now natural farming is receiving
      >> blows from all over because in the long run it would kill many industries
      >> and markets. I'm not an anti-capitalist person, but what I don't like is
      >> the vouluntary dissimulation of information on the pretext that it
      >> threatens capitalistic intentions.
      >> The above link also reminds me of the article on the man who turned his
      >> rocky land into a forest after only a few years, by boring holes and
      >> pounding the rock finely before planting his seeds. This article could be
      >> the explanation to why his plan worked.
      >> Anyway I have an announcement to make. I planted a line of potatoes by
      >> dropping them on the ground and covering them with grass cuttings. Three
      >> months on I have nice, clean potatoes from plants that did not suffer from
      >> insect attacks or diseases. It has suprized many a neighbor, and what they
      >> thought was a crazy idea is now what everyone wants to try for next
      >> season's
      >> cropping.
      >> Happy farming.
      >> RUTHIE
      >>
      >>
      >
      >> Boovarahan S
      >>
      >Chennai.
      >09962662717 (Vodafone) , 08825889492 (Videocon)
      >
      >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Sumant Joshi
      Ruthie, the word lahar in Hindi means wave, the 2 a s are pronounced like o in cover. And congrats for your potatoes. I think we should not take Fukuoka
      Message 2 of 23 , Aug 1, 2011
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        Ruthie, the word lahar in Hindi means wave, the 2 a's are pronounced like 'o' in cover.
        And congrats for your potatoes. I think we should not take Fukuoka san's teachings as dogma, he himself wouldn't have liked that. Like you said, every region has a different set of conditions and the root idea is to 'imitate nature'. So ducks and geese fertilizing a field fits right in. The Easter islanders used stone mulching to great effect. So I guess 'additives' are as unnatural as farming itself, till or no till, fertilized or not. After all you are supporting one plant over others for personal gain. The issue is to avoid chemical stuff and tilling which will be counter productive in the long run.
        It is well known that volcanic activity adds to soil fertility enormously and the same goes for periodic flooding of rivers, like the Nile in Egypt. They say the ancient Egyptians could predict the Nile flooding by the early morning rising of a particular star.

        Which one?? :))


        Sent from my BSNL landline B-fone


        Warm regards,

        Sumant Joshi
        Tel - 09370010424, 0253-2361161



        >________________________________
        >From: Ruthie Aquino <ruthieaquino1@...>
        >To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
        >Sent: Tuesday, 2 August 2011 3:22 AM
        >Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Re: A nice link
        >
        >Hello Kostas,
        >I was a bit like you, a bit surprized to hear of additives in this group
        >useful though they be.
        >However in one of his writings Fukuoka-san said he was sad a road was built
        >between his ricefield and his duck pens, because before that his ducks could
        >freely roam in his fields to pick the slugs and snails, and leave their
        >droppings.
        >In other words I think he was not fully opposed to some kind of help from
        >nature.
        >When we talk of farming here I understand we not only talk of rice or grain
        >farming.  We also talk of fruit trees and vegetables and possibly
        >ornamentals. Sepp Holzer uses heavy stones instead of stakes to help his
        >young trees establish and take root.  He says it works perfectly well.  I
        >also suppose there is some sort of erosion happening to the stones, and
        >maybe that is the kind of stone dust that can be acceptable to natural
        >farming.
        >In some southeast Asian countries we also have naturally occuring lahar
        >or the fine particles spewed by erupting volcanoes.  They are reputed to
        >improve soil conditon when applied properly, please don't ask me how because
        >I do not know.  In European mines we have scories which are a by-product of
        >mining and it is also reputed to improve soil fertility.  Those mines are
        >mostly closed now of course but I heard of it at the time.
        >What I'm trying to say is that the above link is interesting anyway, even if
        >we do not agree with what it says.  It shows how capitalism can smother what
        >would otherwise be useful findings.  Right now natural farming is receiving
        >blows from all over because in the long run it would kill many industries
        >and markets.  I'm not an anti-capitalist person, but what I don't like is
        >the vouluntary dissimulation of information  on the pretext that it
        >threatens capitalistic intentions.
        >The above link also reminds me of the article on the man who turned his
        >rocky land into a forest after only a few years, by boring holes and
        >pounding the rock finely before planting his seeds.  This article could be
        >the explanation to why his plan worked.
        >Anyway I have an announcement to make.  I planted a line of potatoes by
        >dropping them on the ground and covering them with grass cuttings.  Three
        >months on I have nice, clean potatoes from plants that did not suffer from
        >insect attacks or diseases.  It has suprized many a neighbor, and what they
        >thought was a crazy idea is now what everyone wants to try for next season's
        >cropping.
        >Happy farming.
        >RUTHIE
        >
        >
        >
        >2011/8/1 KONSTANTINOS <karoubas@...>
        >
        >> **
        >>
        >>
        >> Nice Link ? Close to natural farming ?
        >>
        >> I beg to differ - stone meals ?? - grinding stones ? sounds like some sort
        >> of punishment for criminal activity - its got nothing to do with " DO -
        >> NOTHING FARMING", that we are practicing, thanks to the great Fukuoka-San.
        >>
        >> Kostas
        >>
        >>
        >> --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, Sumant Joshi <sumant_jo@...>
        >> wrote:
        >> >
        >> > Nice and informative site Linda, thanks for sharing
        >> >
        >> >
        >> >
        >> > Sent from my BSNL landline B-fone
        >> >
        >> >
        >> > Warm regards,
        >> >
        >> > Sumant Joshi
        >> > Tel - 09370010424, 0253-2361161
        >> >
        >> >
        >> >
        >> > >________________________________
        >> > >From: Linda Shewan <linda_shewan@...>
        >>
        >> > >To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
        >> > >Sent: Saturday, 30 July 2011 4:50 PM
        >> > >Subject: RE: [fukuoka_farming] A nice link
        >> > >
        >> > >
        >> > >Â
        >>  > >Hensel's book Bread from Stones is out of print but can be obtained
        >> from
        >> > >www.soilandhealth.org which is a free digitalised library
        >> > >
        >> > >Cheers, Linda
        >> > >
        >> > >-----Original Message-----
        >> > >From: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
        >> > >[mailto:fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Boovarahan
        >> Srinivasan
        >> > >Sent: Saturday, 30 July 2011 12:03 AM
        >> > >To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
        >> > >Subject: [fukuoka_farming] A nice link
        >> > >
        >> > >Another theory close to natural farming but vehement opposer of chemical
        >> > >farming .
        >> > >
        >> > >http://rawsunboy.blogspot.com/2011/02/dr-julius-hensel.html
        >> > >
        >> > >And I have copied the content ( emphasis mine) for the benefit of all.
        >> > >
        >> > >----------------------------------------------------------
        >> > >----------------------------------------------------------
        >> > >----------------------------------------------------------
        >> > >---
        >> > >
        >> > >Dr. Julius Hensel was the greatest figure in the history of agricultural
        >> > >chemistry even if his powerful enemies, members of the octopus chemical
        >> > >fertilizer trust, have succeeded in suppressing his memory, destroying
        >> his
        >> > >books and getting his Stone Meal fertilizer off the market. But
        >> eventually
        >> > >the truth comes to the fore, and its enemies are vanquished. Julius
        >> Hensel's
        >> > >pioneer work in opposing the use of chemicals in agriculture, a half a
        >> > >century later, found rebirth in the Organic Movement which has swept
        >> through
        >> > >the world. But Hensel is more modern than the most modern agricultural
        >> > >reformer, for he claimed, on the basis of theoretical chemical
        >> > >considerations, and supported by practical tests, that his Stone Meal
        >> can
        >> > >replace not only chemical fertilizers but all animal ones as well.
        >> > >
        >> > >It was the German agricultural chemist Liebig who first put forward the
        >> > >phosphorus-potash-nitrogen theory of chemical fertilization. This false
        >> > >doctrine Hensel bitterly attacked and in so doing, won the ire of the
        >> > >financial interests behind the sale of chemical fertilizers, which used
        >> > >agricultural authorities and university professors to denounce poor
        >> Hensel
        >> > >as a charlatan and his Stone Meal as worthless.
        >> > >
        >> > >Though his fight against chemical fertilizers was a losing battle and he
        >> > >died as a defeated hero, it took a generation for Hensel's efforts to
        >> bear
        >> > >fruit in the modern Organic Movement, which has not given its founder
        >> the
        >> > >credit due him.
        >> > >
        >> > >The fight between Liebig, advocate [of] one-sided chemical
        >> fertilization,
        >> > >and Hensel, who advocated a more balanced form of plant nutrition,
        >> including
        >> > >the trace minerals which Liebig completely overlooked, was a battle
        >> between
        >> > >an opportunist, who sought to further the sales of chemical fertilizers,
        >> and
        >> > >a true scientist, interested in humanity's welfare.
        >> > >
        >> > >Though Liebig, with the Chemical Trust behind him, won the battle,
        >> Hensel's
        >> > >ideas finally triumphed... several decades after his passing.
        >> > >
        >> > >Liebig claimed that plants require three main elements-nitrogen,
        >> phosphorus
        >> > >and potash-the basis of which conception chemical fertilizers were
        >> > >manufactured that supplied these elements. On the other hand, Hensel
        >> claimed
        >> > >that plants need many more than these three major elements, stressing
        >> the
        >> > >importance of the trace minerals, which at that time were ignored. In
        >> place
        >> > >of chemical fertilizers, supplying only three elements in an unnatural,
        >> > >caustic form, Hensel recommended the bland minerals of pulverized rocks,
        >> > >especially granite, a primordial rock which contains the many trace
        >> minerals
        >> > >that meet all needs of plant nutrition.
        >> > >
        >> > >Hensel first made his discovery of powdered rock fertilization when he
        >> was a
        >> > >miller.
        >> > >
        >> > >One day, while milling grain, he noticed that some stones were mixed
        >> with it
        >> > >and [he] ground [them] into a meal. He sprinkled this stone meal over
        >> the
        >> > >soil of his garden and was surprised to note how the vegetables took on
        >> a
        >> > >new, more vigorous growth. This led him to repeat the experiment by
        >> grinding
        >> > >more stones and applying the stone meal to fruit trees. Much to his
        >> > >surprise, apple trees that formerly bore wormy, imperfect fruit now
        >> produced
        >> > >fine quality fruit free from worms. Also vegetables fertilized by stone
        >> meal
        >> > >were free from insect pests and diseases. It seemed to be a complete
        >> plant
        >> > >food, which produced fine vegetables even in the poorest soil.
        >> > >
        >> > >Encouraged by these results, Hensel put his "Stone Meal" on the market,
        >> and
        >> > >wrote extensively on its superiority over chemical fertilizers, while at
        >> the
        >> > >same time opposing the use of animal manure, and the nitrogen theory on
        >> > >which it is based, claiming that when plants are supplied with Stone
        >> Meal,
        >> > >plenty of water, air and sunshine, they will grow health-fully even if
        >> the
        >> > >soil is poor in nitrogen, since it was his belief that plants derive
        >> their
        >> > >nitrogen through their leaves, and do not depend on the soil for this
        >> > >element.
        >> > >
        >> > >In opposing this use of chemical fertilizer, Hensel awoke the ire of a
        >> > >powerful enemy, which was resolved to liquidate him-the Chemical Trust.
        >> > >Through unfair competition, Hensel's "Stone Meal" business was destroyed
        >> and
        >> > >his product was taken off the market. However, the chief object of
        >> attack
        >> > >was his book, Bread From Stones, in which he expounded his new doctrines
        >> of
        >> > >Liebig on which the chemical fertilizer business was based, as well as
        >> the
        >> > >"Liebig meat extract." (For Hensel advocated vegetarianism, just as he
        >> > >advocated natural farming without chemicals or manure.)
        >> > >
        >> > >Accordingly, his enemies succeeded in suppressing the further
        >> publication of
        >> > >this book and in removing it from libraries, until it became extremely
        >> rare
        >> > >and difficult to obtain. It is more fortunate that a surviving copy came
        >> > >into the writer's possession.
        >> > >
        >> > >Dr. Julius Hensel was not only a student of agricultural chemistry, but
        >> also
        >> > >biochemistry and nutrition, and he related all these sciences, and
        >> united
        >> > >them into a composite science of life, which he labeled "Makro-biology."
        >> His
        >> > >theory was that the chemistry of life is basically determined by the
        >> > >chemistry of the soil, and that chemicals unbalance and pervert soil
        >> > >chemistry while powdered rocks help restore normal soil mineral balance,
        >> > >producing foods favorable to health and life.
        >> > >
        >> > >His discoveries concerning the value of powdered rocks as soil
        >> conditioners
        >> > >and plant foods, though rejected and ridiculed when he first proposed
        >> them,
        >> > >were adopted by agricultural science nearly a century later, when the
        >> > >application of powdered limestone, rock phosphate and other rocks became
        >> > >standard agricultural practice. Granite, which Hensel recommended as the
        >> > >most balanced of all rocks as source of soil minerals, was first
        >> rejected as
        >> > >worthless, but later appreciated and used as a soil mineralizer.
        >> > >
        >> > >During the course of his researches, Dr. Hensel found that in the
        >> primeval
        >> > >rocks, as granite, lie a potentially inexhaustible supply of all
        >> minerals
        >> > >required for the feeding and regeneration of the soil, plants, animals
        >> and
        >> > >man. All that is required is to reduce them to finely a pulverized form,
        >> so
        >> > >that their mineral elements may be made available to plants. Hensel
        >> wrote a
        >> > >book describing his discovery of a new method of creating more perfect
        >> > >fruits and vegetables, rich in all nutritional elements and immune to
        >> > >disease and insect pests, with the result that it produced worm-free
        >> fruit
        >> > >without the need of spraying. The foods so produced by rock-meal
        >> > >fertilization were true Organic Super Foods, far superior in flavor and
        >> > >value than those produced under the forcing action of manure or chemical
        >> > >fertilizers.
        >> > >
        >> > >Hensel was the first to put up a fight against the then-growing new
        >> chemical
        >> > >fertilizer industry-a struggle that was continued in the next century by
        >> Sir
        >> > >William Howard in England and J. I. Rodale in America.
        >> > >
        >> > >The use of chemical fertilizers, claimed Hensel, leads to the following
        >> evil
        >> > >consequences:
        >> > >
        >> > >It poisons the soil, destroying beneficial soil bacteria, earthworms and
        >> > >humus. *
        >> > >
        >> > >It creates unhealthy, unbalanced, mineral-deficient plants, lacking
        >> > >resistance to disease and insect pests, thus leading to the spraying
        >> men-ace
        >> > >in an effort to preserve these defective specimens.
        >> > >
        >> > >It leads to diseases among animals and men who feed on these abnormal
        >> plants
        >> > >and their products.
        >> > >
        >> > >It leads to a tremendous expense to the farmer, because chemical
        >> > >fertilizers, being extremely soluble, are quickly washed from the soil
        >> by
        >> > >rainfall and needs constant replacement. (Powdered rocks, on the other
        >> hand,
        >> > >being less soluble, are not so easily washed from the soil, but keep
        >> > >releasing minerals to it for many years).
        >> > >
        >> > >* Decayed vegetable or animal matter that provides nutrients for plants.
        >> > >
        >> > >The use of various pulverized rocks, [such] as granite, limestone, rock
        >> > >phosphate, etc., in place of chemical fertilizers, will lead, claimed
        >> > >Hensel, to permanent restoration of even poor soils to the balanced
        >> mineral
        >> > >con-tent of the best virgin soils; and the rock dust thus applied will
        >> > >remain year after year and not be washed away by rains or irrigation
        >> water,
        >> > >as is the case with highly soluble chemical fertilizers.
        >> > >
        >> > >This will be an economic saving to the grower and enable him to sell
        >> foods
        >> > >at a lower price than when he must spend large sums on chemical
        >> fertilizers.
        >> > >Also, since foods thus mineralized are healthy and immune to plant
        >> diseases
        >> > >and insect pests (as Hensel experimentally demonstrated), there is no
        >> need
        >> > >for the expense and dangers of spraying.*
        >> > >
        >> > >* Editor's Note: Rock phosphate from some sources contains a high level
        >> of
        >> > >the toxic mineral cadmium. It's wise to purchase rock phosphate from a
        >> > >supplier who's able to provide an analysis.
        >> > >
        >> > >Foods raised by Hensel's followers, including many German gardeners and
        >> > >farmers, who were enthusiastic in praise of his method, were found to
        >> > >possess firmer tissue and better shipping and keeping qualities than
        >> those
        >> > >raised with animal manure or chemicals. And most important among the
        >> > >advantages of Hensel's agricultural discovery is that foods grown on
        >> > >mineralized soil are higher both in mineral and vitamin content and so
        >> > >pro-duce better health and greater immunity to disease than those grown
        >> by
        >> > >the use of chemical fertilizer sprays.
        >> > >
        >> > >To kill insects by poisons applied to plants does not remove the cause
        >> of
        >> > >their infestation, and poisons both the insect as well as the human
        >> consumer
        >> > >of the sprayed plant. Only correct feeding of the soil, and consequently
        >> of
        >> > >plants by trees, by proper methods of fertilization, thereby keeping
        >> them
        >> > >well-nourished, vigorous and free from disease, will accomplish this,
        >> for
        >> > >insects do not seem to attack healthy plants. It appears that insects,
        >> like
        >> > >scavengers, attack chiefly unhealthy and demineralized plants, not
        >> healthy
        >> > >ones.
        >> > >
        >> > >Dr. Charles Northern has performed experiments in which he raised two
        >> tomato
        >> > >plants, entwined with each other, in different pots, one being supplied
        >> with
        >> > >an abundance of trace minerals, derived from colloidal phosphate, and
        >> the
        >> > >other just chemical fertilizer. The tomato plant grown with chemical
        >> > >fertilizer alone was attacked by insects, while the other one given
        >> trace
        >> > >minerals was not.
        >> > >
        >> > >*Hensel pointed out that animal manure and chemical fertilizers produce
        >> a
        >> > >forced, unnaturally rapid growth of large-sized produce which fail to
        >> > >acquire the minerals normally secured during a slower, longer
        >> development.
        >> > >The result is the production of demineralized, unbalanced plants, which
        >> are
        >> > >weak and unhealthy, falling prey to disease and insect pests.
        >> > >*
        >> > >*This explains why, coincident with the increased use of chemical
        >> > >fertilizers, during the past century, insect pests steadily increased.
        >> So
        >> > >did cancerous conditions among plants, animals and humans, as shown by
        >> > >Keens, an English soil chemist, who presents statistics to show that the
        >> > >increased use of chemical fertilizers is a major cause of the greater
        >> > >incidence of cancer during that last hundred years.
        >> > >*
        >> > >*The modern Organic Farming movement has accepted and propagated one of
        >> > >Hensel's theories-his opposition to chemical fertilizers and
        >> recommendation
        >> > >of powdered rocks in their place-but has failed to appreciate his other
        >> main
        >> > >doctrine-his opposition to the use of animal excrement's as plant foods.
        >> In
        >> > >this respect, Hensel, though he lived in the last century, [was] far
        >> ahead
        >> > >of the Organic Movement and more modern than the most modern
        >> agricultural
        >> > >reformer.
        >> > >*
        >> > >Hensel had a great admirer and disciple in England, one Sampson Morgan,
        >> who
        >> > >founded his "Clean Culture" doctrine on Hensel's philosophy of soil and
        >> > >biological regeneration by the avoidance of chemical or animal
        >> fertilizers.
        >> > >While Hensel was more of a theorist, Morgan was a practical farmer and
        >> > >agricultural experimenter, who proved the truth of Hensel's theories by
        >> > >winning the first prize at all agricultural exhibits at which his
        >> > >super-sized, super-quality, disease - and blight - free rock-dust
        >> fertilized
        >> > >fruits and vegetables were displayed. In Sampson Morgan's Clean Culture,
        >> > >Morgan's views are presented.
        >> > >
        >> > >In reality they are Hensel's doctrines transplanted to English soil. The
        >> > >reading of Morgan's book will be a valuable supplement to [the reading]
        >> of
        >> > >this, to give one a thorough understanding of the subject of Natural
        >> > >Agriculture (i.e., a system of soil culture definitely in advance of
        >> Organic
        >> > >Gardening by the compost method).
        >> > >
        >> > >Practical experience with Hensel's Stone Meal and his non-animal method
        >> of
        >> > >soil regeneration, has proven the following:
        >> > >
        >> > >That Stone Meal creates healthier, tastier, more vitaminized and
        >> mineralized
        >> > >foods.
        >> > >
        >> > >That Stone Meal creates immunity to insect infestation, worms, fungi and
        >> > >plant diseases of all kinds.
        >> > >
        >> > >That Stone Meal improves the keeping and shipping quality of foods, so
        >> that
        >> > >they keep a long time, in contrast to the rapid deterioration of foods
        >> given
        >> > >abundant animal manure.
        >> > >
        >> > >That Stone Meal helps plants to resist drought and frost, enabling them
        >> to
        >> > >survive when those fed on manure and chemicals perish.
        >> > >
        >> > >That Stone Meal produces larger crops which are more profitable because
        >> the
        >> > >farmer is saved the expense of buying chemical fertilizers which are
        >> rapidly
        >> > >leached from the soil by rainfall, whereas Stone Meal, being less
        >> soluble,
        >> > >is gradually released during the course of years and remain in the soil,
        >> > >being the most economical of fertilizers.
        >> > >
        >> > >That foods raised with Stone Meal are better for human health and the
        >> > >prevention of disease than those grown with chemicals or animal manure.
        >> > >
        >> > >That use of Stone Meal, in place of chemical or animal fertilizers,
        >> helps to
        >> > >end the spraying menace (by removing its cause) is proven by the fact
        >> that
        >> > >plants and trees grown with Stone Meal are immune to pests and so
        >> require no
        >> > >spraying.
        >> > >
        >> > >
        >> http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/supressed_inventions/suppressed_in
        >> > >ventions20.htm
        >> > >
        >> > >----------------------------------------------------------
        >> > >----------------------------------------------------------
        >> > >----------------------------------------------------------
        >> > >-
        >> > >Boovarahan S
        >> > >Chennai.
        >> > >09962662717 (Vodafone) , 08825889492 (Videocon)
        >> > >
        >> > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >> > >
        >> > >------------------------------------
        >> > >
        >> > >Yahoo! Groups Links
        >> > >
        >> > >
        >> > >
        >> > >
        >> > >
        >> >
        >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >> >
        >>
        >> 
        >>
        >
        >
        >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        >------------------------------------
        >
        >Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >

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      • Linda Shewan
        Well done Ruthie and Steve - what great results! Myself - well each year I am getting more self-seeded vegetables which I find encouraging, but no great news.
        Message 3 of 23 , Aug 1, 2011
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          Well done Ruthie and Steve - what great results!



          Myself - well each year I am getting more self-seeded vegetables which I
          find encouraging, but no great news. small steps.



          Linda



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • KONSTANTINOS
          Congratulations on the potatoes Ruthie, and I hope you have many more victories in the future. Ruthie, central to the concept of natural farming is the process
          Message 4 of 23 , Aug 1, 2011
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            Congratulations on the potatoes Ruthie, and I hope you have many more victories in the future.

            Ruthie, central to the concept of natural farming is the process by which we improve and enrich the soil. Fukuoka-San evolved on this issue - this is evident in his books - while initially he even buried logs in the soil, and used manure at the end he concluded that the best way to improve the land is through the use of plants and trees (just like in a forest)- he was very excited about the use of alfalfa and acacia trees - they are both nitrogen fixers and provide plenty of organic matter. The use of plants and trees also fits well with the concept of do nothing (or do the least and have the maximum impact) - just scatter seeds and watch nature perform wonders. Tossing potatoes on the ground and covering them with mulch is a lot closer to nature than digging a garden, bring in manure or ground up stone and hilling. What you did with the potatoes in simple and close to perfection - you did the least work and had the maximum output - nature has perfected this concept - its not easy for us to achieve.

            The concept of spending hours grinding stones or buying dust from some place far away, to me is not very appealing, and I see it as the opposite of natural farming.

            Kostas






            --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, Ruthie Aquino <ruthieaquino1@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hello Kostas,
            > I was a bit like you, a bit surprized to hear of additives in this group
            > useful though they be.
            > However in one of his writings Fukuoka-san said he was sad a road was built
            > between his ricefield and his duck pens, because before that his ducks could
            > freely roam in his fields to pick the slugs and snails, and leave their
            > droppings.
            > In other words I think he was not fully opposed to some kind of help from
            > nature.
            > When we talk of farming here I understand we not only talk of rice or grain
            > farming. We also talk of fruit trees and vegetables and possibly
            > ornamentals. Sepp Holzer uses heavy stones instead of stakes to help his
            > young trees establish and take root. He says it works perfectly well. I
            > also suppose there is some sort of erosion happening to the stones, and
            > maybe that is the kind of stone dust that can be acceptable to natural
            > farming.
            > In some southeast Asian countries we also have naturally occuring lahar
            > or the fine particles spewed by erupting volcanoes. They are reputed to
            > improve soil conditon when applied properly, please don't ask me how because
            > I do not know. In European mines we have scories which are a by-product of
            > mining and it is also reputed to improve soil fertility. Those mines are
            > mostly closed now of course but I heard of it at the time.
            > What I'm trying to say is that the above link is interesting anyway, even if
            > we do not agree with what it says. It shows how capitalism can smother what
            > would otherwise be useful findings. Right now natural farming is receiving
            > blows from all over because in the long run it would kill many industries
            > and markets. I'm not an anti-capitalist person, but what I don't like is
            > the vouluntary dissimulation of information on the pretext that it
            > threatens capitalistic intentions.
            > The above link also reminds me of the article on the man who turned his
            > rocky land into a forest after only a few years, by boring holes and
            > pounding the rock finely before planting his seeds. This article could be
            > the explanation to why his plan worked.
            > Anyway I have an announcement to make. I planted a line of potatoes by
            > dropping them on the ground and covering them with grass cuttings. Three
            > months on I have nice, clean potatoes from plants that did not suffer from
            > insect attacks or diseases. It has suprized many a neighbor, and what they
            > thought was a crazy idea is now what everyone wants to try for next season's
            > cropping.
            > Happy farming.
            > RUTHIE
            >
            >
            >
            > 2011/8/1 KONSTANTINOS <karoubas@...>
            >
            > > **
            > >
            > >
            > > Nice Link ? Close to natural farming ?
            > >
            > > I beg to differ - stone meals ?? - grinding stones ? sounds like some sort
            > > of punishment for criminal activity - its got nothing to do with " DO -
            > > NOTHING FARMING", that we are practicing, thanks to the great Fukuoka-San.
            > >
            > > Kostas
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, Sumant Joshi <sumant_jo@>
            > > wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Nice and informative site Linda, thanks for sharing
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Sent from my BSNL landline B-fone
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Warm regards,
            > > >
            > > > Sumant Joshi
            > > > Tel - 09370010424, 0253-2361161
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > >________________________________
            > > > >From: Linda Shewan <linda_shewan@>
            > >
            > > > >To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
            > > > >Sent: Saturday, 30 July 2011 4:50 PM
            > > > >Subject: RE: [fukuoka_farming] A nice link
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >Â
            > > > >Hensel's book Bread from Stones is out of print but can be obtained
            > > from
            > > > >www.soilandhealth.org which is a free digitalised library
            > > > >
            > > > >Cheers, Linda
            > > > >
            > > > >-----Original Message-----
            > > > >From: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
            > > > >[mailto:fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Boovarahan
            > > Srinivasan
            > > > >Sent: Saturday, 30 July 2011 12:03 AM
            > > > >To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
            > > > >Subject: [fukuoka_farming] A nice link
            > > > >
            > > > >Another theory close to natural farming but vehement opposer of chemical
            > > > >farming .
            > > > >
            > > > >http://rawsunboy.blogspot.com/2011/02/dr-julius-hensel.html
            > > > >
            > > > >And I have copied the content ( emphasis mine) for the benefit of all.
            > > > >
            > > > >----------------------------------------------------------
            > > > >----------------------------------------------------------
            > > > >----------------------------------------------------------
            > > > >---
            > > > >
            > > > >Dr. Julius Hensel was the greatest figure in the history of agricultural
            > > > >chemistry even if his powerful enemies, members of the octopus chemical
            > > > >fertilizer trust, have succeeded in suppressing his memory, destroying
            > > his
            > > > >books and getting his Stone Meal fertilizer off the market. But
            > > eventually
            > > > >the truth comes to the fore, and its enemies are vanquished. Julius
            > > Hensel's
            > > > >pioneer work in opposing the use of chemicals in agriculture, a half a
            > > > >century later, found rebirth in the Organic Movement which has swept
            > > through
            > > > >the world. But Hensel is more modern than the most modern agricultural
            > > > >reformer, for he claimed, on the basis of theoretical chemical
            > > > >considerations, and supported by practical tests, that his Stone Meal
            > > can
            > > > >replace not only chemical fertilizers but all animal ones as well.
            > > > >
            > > > >It was the German agricultural chemist Liebig who first put forward the
            > > > >phosphorus-potash-nitrogen theory of chemical fertilization. This false
            > > > >doctrine Hensel bitterly attacked and in so doing, won the ire of the
            > > > >financial interests behind the sale of chemical fertilizers, which used
            > > > >agricultural authorities and university professors to denounce poor
            > > Hensel
            > > > >as a charlatan and his Stone Meal as worthless.
            > > > >
            > > > >Though his fight against chemical fertilizers was a losing battle and he
            > > > >died as a defeated hero, it took a generation for Hensel's efforts to
            > > bear
            > > > >fruit in the modern Organic Movement, which has not given its founder
            > > the
            > > > >credit due him.
            > > > >
            > > > >The fight between Liebig, advocate [of] one-sided chemical
            > > fertilization,
            > > > >and Hensel, who advocated a more balanced form of plant nutrition,
            > > including
            > > > >the trace minerals which Liebig completely overlooked, was a battle
            > > between
            > > > >an opportunist, who sought to further the sales of chemical fertilizers,
            > > and
            > > > >a true scientist, interested in humanity's welfare.
            > > > >
            > > > >Though Liebig, with the Chemical Trust behind him, won the battle,
            > > Hensel's
            > > > >ideas finally triumphed... several decades after his passing.
            > > > >
            > > > >Liebig claimed that plants require three main elements-nitrogen,
            > > phosphorus
            > > > >and potash-the basis of which conception chemical fertilizers were
            > > > >manufactured that supplied these elements. On the other hand, Hensel
            > > claimed
            > > > >that plants need many more than these three major elements, stressing
            > > the
            > > > >importance of the trace minerals, which at that time were ignored. In
            > > place
            > > > >of chemical fertilizers, supplying only three elements in an unnatural,
            > > > >caustic form, Hensel recommended the bland minerals of pulverized rocks,
            > > > >especially granite, a primordial rock which contains the many trace
            > > minerals
            > > > >that meet all needs of plant nutrition.
            > > > >
            > > > >Hensel first made his discovery of powdered rock fertilization when he
            > > was a
            > > > >miller.
            > > > >
            > > > >One day, while milling grain, he noticed that some stones were mixed
            > > with it
            > > > >and [he] ground [them] into a meal. He sprinkled this stone meal over
            > > the
            > > > >soil of his garden and was surprised to note how the vegetables took on
            > > a
            > > > >new, more vigorous growth. This led him to repeat the experiment by
            > > grinding
            > > > >more stones and applying the stone meal to fruit trees. Much to his
            > > > >surprise, apple trees that formerly bore wormy, imperfect fruit now
            > > produced
            > > > >fine quality fruit free from worms. Also vegetables fertilized by stone
            > > meal
            > > > >were free from insect pests and diseases. It seemed to be a complete
            > > plant
            > > > >food, which produced fine vegetables even in the poorest soil.
            > > > >
            > > > >Encouraged by these results, Hensel put his "Stone Meal" on the market,
            > > and
            > > > >wrote extensively on its superiority over chemical fertilizers, while at
            > > the
            > > > >same time opposing the use of animal manure, and the nitrogen theory on
            > > > >which it is based, claiming that when plants are supplied with Stone
            > > Meal,
            > > > >plenty of water, air and sunshine, they will grow health-fully even if
            > > the
            > > > >soil is poor in nitrogen, since it was his belief that plants derive
            > > their
            > > > >nitrogen through their leaves, and do not depend on the soil for this
            > > > >element.
            > > > >
            > > > >In opposing this use of chemical fertilizer, Hensel awoke the ire of a
            > > > >powerful enemy, which was resolved to liquidate him-the Chemical Trust.
            > > > >Through unfair competition, Hensel's "Stone Meal" business was destroyed
            > > and
            > > > >his product was taken off the market. However, the chief object of
            > > attack
            > > > >was his book, Bread From Stones, in which he expounded his new doctrines
            > > of
            > > > >Liebig on which the chemical fertilizer business was based, as well as
            > > the
            > > > >"Liebig meat extract." (For Hensel advocated vegetarianism, just as he
            > > > >advocated natural farming without chemicals or manure.)
            > > > >
            > > > >Accordingly, his enemies succeeded in suppressing the further
            > > publication of
            > > > >this book and in removing it from libraries, until it became extremely
            > > rare
            > > > >and difficult to obtain. It is more fortunate that a surviving copy came
            > > > >into the writer's possession.
            > > > >
            > > > >Dr. Julius Hensel was not only a student of agricultural chemistry, but
            > > also
            > > > >biochemistry and nutrition, and he related all these sciences, and
            > > united
            > > > >them into a composite science of life, which he labeled "Makro-biology."
            > > His
            > > > >theory was that the chemistry of life is basically determined by the
            > > > >chemistry of the soil, and that chemicals unbalance and pervert soil
            > > > >chemistry while powdered rocks help restore normal soil mineral balance,
            > > > >producing foods favorable to health and life.
            > > > >
            > > > >His discoveries concerning the value of powdered rocks as soil
            > > conditioners
            > > > >and plant foods, though rejected and ridiculed when he first proposed
            > > them,
            > > > >were adopted by agricultural science nearly a century later, when the
            > > > >application of powdered limestone, rock phosphate and other rocks became
            > > > >standard agricultural practice. Granite, which Hensel recommended as the
            > > > >most balanced of all rocks as source of soil minerals, was first
            > > rejected as
            > > > >worthless, but later appreciated and used as a soil mineralizer.
            > > > >
            > > > >During the course of his researches, Dr. Hensel found that in the
            > > primeval
            > > > >rocks, as granite, lie a potentially inexhaustible supply of all
            > > minerals
            > > > >required for the feeding and regeneration of the soil, plants, animals
            > > and
            > > > >man. All that is required is to reduce them to finely a pulverized form,
            > > so
            > > > >that their mineral elements may be made available to plants. Hensel
            > > wrote a
            > > > >book describing his discovery of a new method of creating more perfect
            > > > >fruits and vegetables, rich in all nutritional elements and immune to
            > > > >disease and insect pests, with the result that it produced worm-free
            > > fruit
            > > > >without the need of spraying. The foods so produced by rock-meal
            > > > >fertilization were true Organic Super Foods, far superior in flavor and
            > > > >value than those produced under the forcing action of manure or chemical
            > > > >fertilizers.
            > > > >
            > > > >Hensel was the first to put up a fight against the then-growing new
            > > chemical
            > > > >fertilizer industry-a struggle that was continued in the next century by
            > > Sir
            > > > >William Howard in England and J. I. Rodale in America.
            > > > >
            > > > >The use of chemical fertilizers, claimed Hensel, leads to the following
            > > evil
            > > > >consequences:
            > > > >
            > > > >It poisons the soil, destroying beneficial soil bacteria, earthworms and
            > > > >humus. *
            > > > >
            > > > >It creates unhealthy, unbalanced, mineral-deficient plants, lacking
            > > > >resistance to disease and insect pests, thus leading to the spraying
            > > men-ace
            > > > >in an effort to preserve these defective specimens.
            > > > >
            > > > >It leads to diseases among animals and men who feed on these abnormal
            > > plants
            > > > >and their products.
            > > > >
            > > > >It leads to a tremendous expense to the farmer, because chemical
            > > > >fertilizers, being extremely soluble, are quickly washed from the soil
            > > by
            > > > >rainfall and needs constant replacement. (Powdered rocks, on the other
            > > hand,
            > > > >being less soluble, are not so easily washed from the soil, but keep
            > > > >releasing minerals to it for many years).
            > > > >
            > > > >* Decayed vegetable or animal matter that provides nutrients for plants.
            > > > >
            > > > >The use of various pulverized rocks, [such] as granite, limestone, rock
            > > > >phosphate, etc., in place of chemical fertilizers, will lead, claimed
            > > > >Hensel, to permanent restoration of even poor soils to the balanced
            > > mineral
            > > > >con-tent of the best virgin soils; and the rock dust thus applied will
            > > > >remain year after year and not be washed away by rains or irrigation
            > > water,
            > > > >as is the case with highly soluble chemical fertilizers.
            > > > >
            > > > >This will be an economic saving to the grower and enable him to sell
            > > foods
            > > > >at a lower price than when he must spend large sums on chemical
            > > fertilizers.
            > > > >Also, since foods thus mineralized are healthy and immune to plant
            > > diseases
            > > > >and insect pests (as Hensel experimentally demonstrated), there is no
            > > need
            > > > >for the expense and dangers of spraying.*
            > > > >
            > > > >* Editor's Note: Rock phosphate from some sources contains a high level
            > > of
            > > > >the toxic mineral cadmium. It's wise to purchase rock phosphate from a
            > > > >supplier who's able to provide an analysis.
            > > > >
            > > > >Foods raised by Hensel's followers, including many German gardeners and
            > > > >farmers, who were enthusiastic in praise of his method, were found to
            > > > >possess firmer tissue and better shipping and keeping qualities than
            > > those
            > > > >raised with animal manure or chemicals. And most important among the
            > > > >advantages of Hensel's agricultural discovery is that foods grown on
            > > > >mineralized soil are higher both in mineral and vitamin content and so
            > > > >pro-duce better health and greater immunity to disease than those grown
            > > by
            > > > >the use of chemical fertilizer sprays.
            > > > >
            > > > >To kill insects by poisons applied to plants does not remove the cause
            > > of
            > > > >their infestation, and poisons both the insect as well as the human
            > > consumer
            > > > >of the sprayed plant. Only correct feeding of the soil, and consequently
            > > of
            > > > >plants by trees, by proper methods of fertilization, thereby keeping
            > > them
            > > > >well-nourished, vigorous and free from disease, will accomplish this,
            > > for
            > > > >insects do not seem to attack healthy plants. It appears that insects,
            > > like
            > > > >scavengers, attack chiefly unhealthy and demineralized plants, not
            > > healthy
            > > > >ones.
            > > > >
            > > > >Dr. Charles Northern has performed experiments in which he raised two
            > > tomato
            > > > >plants, entwined with each other, in different pots, one being supplied
            > > with
            > > > >an abundance of trace minerals, derived from colloidal phosphate, and
            > > the
            > > > >other just chemical fertilizer. The tomato plant grown with chemical
            > > > >fertilizer alone was attacked by insects, while the other one given
            > > trace
            > > > >minerals was not.
            > > > >
            > > > >*Hensel pointed out that animal manure and chemical fertilizers produce
            > > a
            > > > >forced, unnaturally rapid growth of large-sized produce which fail to
            > > > >acquire the minerals normally secured during a slower, longer
            > > development.
            > > > >The result is the production of demineralized, unbalanced plants, which
            > > are
            > > > >weak and unhealthy, falling prey to disease and insect pests.
            > > > >*
            > > > >*This explains why, coincident with the increased use of chemical
            > > > >fertilizers, during the past century, insect pests steadily increased.
            > > So
            > > > >did cancerous conditions among plants, animals and humans, as shown by
            > > > >Keens, an English soil chemist, who presents statistics to show that the
            > > > >increased use of chemical fertilizers is a major cause of the greater
            > > > >incidence of cancer during that last hundred years.
            > > > >*
            > > > >*The modern Organic Farming movement has accepted and propagated one of
            > > > >Hensel's theories-his opposition to chemical fertilizers and
            > > recommendation
            > > > >of powdered rocks in their place-but has failed to appreciate his other
            > > main
            > > > >doctrine-his opposition to the use of animal excrement's as plant foods.
            > > In
            > > > >this respect, Hensel, though he lived in the last century, [was] far
            > > ahead
            > > > >of the Organic Movement and more modern than the most modern
            > > agricultural
            > > > >reformer.
            > > > >*
            > > > >Hensel had a great admirer and disciple in England, one Sampson Morgan,
            > > who
            > > > >founded his "Clean Culture" doctrine on Hensel's philosophy of soil and
            > > > >biological regeneration by the avoidance of chemical or animal
            > > fertilizers.
            > > > >While Hensel was more of a theorist, Morgan was a practical farmer and
            > > > >agricultural experimenter, who proved the truth of Hensel's theories by
            > > > >winning the first prize at all agricultural exhibits at which his
            > > > >super-sized, super-quality, disease - and blight - free rock-dust
            > > fertilized
            > > > >fruits and vegetables were displayed. In Sampson Morgan's Clean Culture,
            > > > >Morgan's views are presented.
            > > > >
            > > > >In reality they are Hensel's doctrines transplanted to English soil. The
            > > > >reading of Morgan's book will be a valuable supplement to [the reading]
            > > of
            > > > >this, to give one a thorough understanding of the subject of Natural
            > > > >Agriculture (i.e., a system of soil culture definitely in advance of
            > > Organic
            > > > >Gardening by the compost method).
            > > > >
            > > > >Practical experience with Hensel's Stone Meal and his non-animal method
            > > of
            > > > >soil regeneration, has proven the following:
            > > > >
            > > > >That Stone Meal creates healthier, tastier, more vitaminized and
            > > mineralized
            > > > >foods.
            > > > >
            > > > >That Stone Meal creates immunity to insect infestation, worms, fungi and
            > > > >plant diseases of all kinds.
            > > > >
            > > > >That Stone Meal improves the keeping and shipping quality of foods, so
            > > that
            > > > >they keep a long time, in contrast to the rapid deterioration of foods
            > > given
            > > > >abundant animal manure.
            > > > >
            > > > >That Stone Meal helps plants to resist drought and frost, enabling them
            > > to
            > > > >survive when those fed on manure and chemicals perish.
            > > > >
            > > > >That Stone Meal produces larger crops which are more profitable because
            > > the
            > > > >farmer is saved the expense of buying chemical fertilizers which are
            > > rapidly
            > > > >leached from the soil by rainfall, whereas Stone Meal, being less
            > > soluble,
            > > > >is gradually released during the course of years and remain in the soil,
            > > > >being the most economical of fertilizers.
            > > > >
            > > > >That foods raised with Stone Meal are better for human health and the
            > > > >prevention of disease than those grown with chemicals or animal manure.
            > > > >
            > > > >That use of Stone Meal, in place of chemical or animal fertilizers,
            > > helps to
            > > > >end the spraying menace (by removing its cause) is proven by the fact
            > > that
            > > > >plants and trees grown with Stone Meal are immune to pests and so
            > > require no
            > > > >spraying.
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/supressed_inventions/suppressed_in
            > > > >ventions20.htm
            > > > >
            > > > >----------------------------------------------------------
            > > > >----------------------------------------------------------
            > > > >----------------------------------------------------------
            > > > >-
            > > > >Boovarahan S
            > > > >Chennai.
            > > > >09962662717 (Vodafone) , 08825889492 (Videocon)
            > > > >
            > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > > >
            > > > >------------------------------------
            > > > >
            > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Ruthie Aquino
            Yes Kostas I see your point, absolutely. That is not natural farming if it involves hauling in and grinding. Fukuoka was opposed to composting so he threw back
            Message 5 of 23 , Aug 1, 2011
            • 0 Attachment
              Yes Kostas I see your point, absolutely.
              That is not natural farming if it involves hauling in and grinding.
              Fukuoka was opposed to composting so he threw back the uncut straw in his
              field. Still, he had to throw it in again, and I suppose if you have acres
              of fields then that involves some hauling. However it is not heavy rocks
              and heavy bags of rock powder. Hahaha I can picture you carrying those
              heavy rocks and grinding those stones and sweating ang fuming!
              Anyway I like your comments.
              See! They opened up discussions.
              We are all trying to do some Fukuoka farming, and we need one another to
              encourage and share experiences.
              best
              RUTHIE

              2011/8/2 KONSTANTINOS <karoubas@...>

              > **
              >
              >
              > Congratulations on the potatoes Ruthie, and I hope you have many more
              > victories in the future.
              >
              > Ruthie, central to the concept of natural farming is the process by which
              > we improve and enrich the soil. Fukuoka-San evolved on this issue - this is
              > evident in his books - while initially he even buried logs in the soil, and
              > used manure at the end he concluded that the best way to improve the land is
              > through the use of plants and trees (just like in a forest)- he was very
              > excited about the use of alfalfa and acacia trees - they are both nitrogen
              > fixers and provide plenty of organic matter. The use of plants and trees
              > also fits well with the concept of do nothing (or do the least and have the
              > maximum impact) - just scatter seeds and watch nature perform wonders.
              > Tossing potatoes on the ground and covering them with mulch is a lot closer
              > to nature than digging a garden, bring in manure or ground up stone and
              > hilling. What you did with the potatoes in simple and close to perfection -
              > you did the least work and had the maximum output - nature has perfected
              > this concept - its not easy for us to achieve.
              >
              > The concept of spending hours grinding stones or buying dust from some
              > place far away, to me is not very appealing, and I see it as the opposite of
              > natural farming.
              >
              > Kostas
              >
              >
              > --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, Ruthie Aquino <ruthieaquino1@...>
              > wrote:
              > >
              > > Hello Kostas,
              > > I was a bit like you, a bit surprized to hear of additives in this group
              > > useful though they be.
              > > However in one of his writings Fukuoka-san said he was sad a road was
              > built
              > > between his ricefield and his duck pens, because before that his ducks
              > could
              > > freely roam in his fields to pick the slugs and snails, and leave their
              > > droppings.
              > > In other words I think he was not fully opposed to some kind of help from
              > > nature.
              > > When we talk of farming here I understand we not only talk of rice or
              > grain
              > > farming. We also talk of fruit trees and vegetables and possibly
              > > ornamentals. Sepp Holzer uses heavy stones instead of stakes to help his
              > > young trees establish and take root. He says it works perfectly well. I
              > > also suppose there is some sort of erosion happening to the stones, and
              > > maybe that is the kind of stone dust that can be acceptable to natural
              > > farming.
              > > In some southeast Asian countries we also have naturally occuring lahar
              > > or the fine particles spewed by erupting volcanoes. They are reputed to
              > > improve soil conditon when applied properly, please don't ask me how
              > because
              > > I do not know. In European mines we have scories which are a by-product
              > of
              > > mining and it is also reputed to improve soil fertility. Those mines are
              > > mostly closed now of course but I heard of it at the time.
              > > What I'm trying to say is that the above link is interesting anyway, even
              > if
              > > we do not agree with what it says. It shows how capitalism can smother
              > what
              > > would otherwise be useful findings. Right now natural farming is
              > receiving
              > > blows from all over because in the long run it would kill many industries
              > > and markets. I'm not an anti-capitalist person, but what I don't like is
              > > the vouluntary dissimulation of information on the pretext that it
              > > threatens capitalistic intentions.
              > > The above link also reminds me of the article on the man who turned his
              > > rocky land into a forest after only a few years, by boring holes and
              > > pounding the rock finely before planting his seeds. This article could be
              > > the explanation to why his plan worked.
              > > Anyway I have an announcement to make. I planted a line of potatoes by
              > > dropping them on the ground and covering them with grass cuttings. Three
              > > months on I have nice, clean potatoes from plants that did not suffer
              > from
              > > insect attacks or diseases. It has suprized many a neighbor, and what
              > they
              > > thought was a crazy idea is now what everyone wants to try for next
              > season's
              > > cropping.
              > > Happy farming.
              > > RUTHIE
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > 2011/8/1 KONSTANTINOS <karoubas@...>
              > >
              > > > **
              >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Nice Link ? Close to natural farming ?
              > > >
              > > > I beg to differ - stone meals ?? - grinding stones ? sounds like some
              > sort
              > > > of punishment for criminal activity - its got nothing to do with " DO -
              > > > NOTHING FARMING", that we are practicing, thanks to the great
              > Fukuoka-San.
              > > >
              > > > Kostas
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, Sumant Joshi <sumant_jo@>
              > > > wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > Nice and informative site Linda, thanks for sharing
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > Sent from my BSNL landline B-fone
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > Warm regards,
              > > > >
              > > > > Sumant Joshi
              > > > > Tel - 09370010424, 0253-2361161
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > >________________________________
              > > > > >From: Linda Shewan <linda_shewan@>
              > > >
              > > > > >To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
              > > > > >Sent: Saturday, 30 July 2011 4:50 PM
              > > > > >Subject: RE: [fukuoka_farming] A nice link
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > >�
              > > > > >Hensel's book Bread from Stones is out of print but can be obtained
              > > > from
              > > > > >www.soilandhealth.org which is a free digitalised library
              > > > > >
              > > > > >Cheers, Linda
              > > > > >
              > > > > >-----Original Message-----
              > > > > >From: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
              > > > > >[mailto:fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Boovarahan
              > > > Srinivasan
              > > > > >Sent: Saturday, 30 July 2011 12:03 AM
              > > > > >To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
              > > > > >Subject: [fukuoka_farming] A nice link
              > > > > >
              > > > > >Another theory close to natural farming but vehement opposer of
              > chemical
              > > > > >farming .
              > > > > >
              > > > > >http://rawsunboy.blogspot.com/2011/02/dr-julius-hensel.html
              > > > > >
              > > > > >And I have copied the content ( emphasis mine) for the benefit of
              > all.
              > > > > >
              > > > > >----------------------------------------------------------
              > > > > >----------------------------------------------------------
              > > > > >----------------------------------------------------------
              > > > > >---
              > > > > >
              > > > > >Dr. Julius Hensel was the greatest figure in the history of
              > agricultural
              > > > > >chemistry even if his powerful enemies, members of the octopus
              > chemical
              > > > > >fertilizer trust, have succeeded in suppressing his memory,
              > destroying
              > > > his
              > > > > >books and getting his Stone Meal fertilizer off the market. But
              > > > eventually
              > > > > >the truth comes to the fore, and its enemies are vanquished. Julius
              > > > Hensel's
              > > > > >pioneer work in opposing the use of chemicals in agriculture, a half
              > a
              > > > > >century later, found rebirth in the Organic Movement which has swept
              > > > through
              > > > > >the world. But Hensel is more modern than the most modern
              > agricultural
              > > > > >reformer, for he claimed, on the basis of theoretical chemical
              > > > > >considerations, and supported by practical tests, that his Stone
              > Meal
              > > > can
              > > > > >replace not only chemical fertilizers but all animal ones as well.
              > > > > >
              > > > > >It was the German agricultural chemist Liebig who first put forward
              > the
              > > > > >phosphorus-potash-nitrogen theory of chemical fertilization. This
              > false
              > > > > >doctrine Hensel bitterly attacked and in so doing, won the ire of
              > the
              > > > > >financial interests behind the sale of chemical fertilizers, which
              > used
              > > > > >agricultural authorities and university professors to denounce poor
              > > > Hensel
              > > > > >as a charlatan and his Stone Meal as worthless.
              > > > > >
              > > > > >Though his fight against chemical fertilizers was a losing battle
              > and he
              > > > > >died as a defeated hero, it took a generation for Hensel's efforts
              > to
              > > > bear
              > > > > >fruit in the modern Organic Movement, which has not given its
              > founder
              > > > the
              > > > > >credit due him.
              > > > > >
              > > > > >The fight between Liebig, advocate [of] one-sided chemical
              > > > fertilization,
              > > > > >and Hensel, who advocated a more balanced form of plant nutrition,
              > > > including
              > > > > >the trace minerals which Liebig completely overlooked, was a battle
              > > > between
              > > > > >an opportunist, who sought to further the sales of chemical
              > fertilizers,
              > > > and
              > > > > >a true scientist, interested in humanity's welfare.
              > > > > >
              > > > > >Though Liebig, with the Chemical Trust behind him, won the battle,
              > > > Hensel's
              > > > > >ideas finally triumphed... several decades after his passing.
              > > > > >
              > > > > >Liebig claimed that plants require three main elements-nitrogen,
              > > > phosphorus
              > > > > >and potash-the basis of which conception chemical fertilizers were
              > > > > >manufactured that supplied these elements. On the other hand, Hensel
              > > > claimed
              > > > > >that plants need many more than these three major elements,
              > stressing
              > > > the
              > > > > >importance of the trace minerals, which at that time were ignored.
              > In
              > > > place
              > > > > >of chemical fertilizers, supplying only three elements in an
              > unnatural,
              > > > > >caustic form, Hensel recommended the bland minerals of pulverized
              > rocks,
              > > > > >especially granite, a primordial rock which contains the many trace
              > > > minerals
              > > > > >that meet all needs of plant nutrition.
              > > > > >
              > > > > >Hensel first made his discovery of powdered rock fertilization when
              > he
              > > > was a
              > > > > >miller.
              > > > > >
              > > > > >One day, while milling grain, he noticed that some stones were mixed
              > > > with it
              > > > > >and [he] ground [them] into a meal. He sprinkled this stone meal
              > over
              > > > the
              > > > > >soil of his garden and was surprised to note how the vegetables took
              > on
              > > > a
              > > > > >new, more vigorous growth. This led him to repeat the experiment by
              > > > grinding
              > > > > >more stones and applying the stone meal to fruit trees. Much to his
              > > > > >surprise, apple trees that formerly bore wormy, imperfect fruit now
              > > > produced
              > > > > >fine quality fruit free from worms. Also vegetables fertilized by
              > stone
              > > > meal
              > > > > >were free from insect pests and diseases. It seemed to be a complete
              > > > plant
              > > > > >food, which produced fine vegetables even in the poorest soil.
              > > > > >
              > > > > >Encouraged by these results, Hensel put his "Stone Meal" on the
              > market,
              > > > and
              > > > > >wrote extensively on its superiority over chemical fertilizers,
              > while at
              > > > the
              > > > > >same time opposing the use of animal manure, and the nitrogen theory
              > on
              > > > > >which it is based, claiming that when plants are supplied with Stone
              > > > Meal,
              > > > > >plenty of water, air and sunshine, they will grow health-fully even
              > if
              > > > the
              > > > > >soil is poor in nitrogen, since it was his belief that plants derive
              > > > their
              > > > > >nitrogen through their leaves, and do not depend on the soil for
              > this
              > > > > >element.
              > > > > >
              > > > > >In opposing this use of chemical fertilizer, Hensel awoke the ire of
              > a
              > > > > >powerful enemy, which was resolved to liquidate him-the Chemical
              > Trust.
              > > > > >Through unfair competition, Hensel's "Stone Meal" business was
              > destroyed
              > > > and
              > > > > >his product was taken off the market. However, the chief object of
              > > > attack
              > > > > >was his book, Bread From Stones, in which he expounded his new
              > doctrines
              > > > of
              > > > > >Liebig on which the chemical fertilizer business was based, as well
              > as
              > > > the
              > > > > >"Liebig meat extract." (For Hensel advocated vegetarianism, just as
              > he
              > > > > >advocated natural farming without chemicals or manure.)
              > > > > >
              > > > > >Accordingly, his enemies succeeded in suppressing the further
              > > > publication of
              > > > > >this book and in removing it from libraries, until it became
              > extremely
              > > > rare
              > > > > >and difficult to obtain. It is more fortunate that a surviving copy
              > came
              > > > > >into the writer's possession.
              > > > > >
              > > > > >Dr. Julius Hensel was not only a student of agricultural chemistry,
              > but
              > > > also
              > > > > >biochemistry and nutrition, and he related all these sciences, and
              > > > united
              > > > > >them into a composite science of life, which he labeled
              > "Makro-biology."
              > > > His
              > > > > >theory was that the chemistry of life is basically determined by the
              > > > > >chemistry of the soil, and that chemicals unbalance and pervert soil
              > > > > >chemistry while powdered rocks help restore normal soil mineral
              > balance,
              > > > > >producing foods favorable to health and life.
              > > > > >
              > > > > >His discoveries concerning the value of powdered rocks as soil
              > > > conditioners
              > > > > >and plant foods, though rejected and ridiculed when he first
              > proposed
              > > > them,
              > > > > >were adopted by agricultural science nearly a century later, when
              > the
              > > > > >application of powdered limestone, rock phosphate and other rocks
              > became
              > > > > >standard agricultural practice. Granite, which Hensel recommended as
              > the
              > > > > >most balanced of all rocks as source of soil minerals, was first
              > > > rejected as
              > > > > >worthless, but later appreciated and used as a soil mineralizer.
              > > > > >
              > > > > >During the course of his researches, Dr. Hensel found that in the
              > > > primeval
              > > > > >rocks, as granite, lie a potentially inexhaustible supply of all
              > > > minerals
              > > > > >required for the feeding and regeneration of the soil, plants,
              > animals
              > > > and
              > > > > >man. All that is required is to reduce them to finely a pulverized
              > form,
              > > > so
              > > > > >that their mineral elements may be made available to plants. Hensel
              > > > wrote a
              > > > > >book describing his discovery of a new method of creating more
              > perfect
              > > > > >fruits and vegetables, rich in all nutritional elements and immune
              > to
              > > > > >disease and insect pests, with the result that it produced worm-free
              > > > fruit
              > > > > >without the need of spraying. The foods so produced by rock-meal
              > > > > >fertilization were true Organic Super Foods, far superior in flavor
              > and
              > > > > >value than those produced under the forcing action of manure or
              > chemical
              > > > > >fertilizers.
              > > > > >
              > > > > >Hensel was the first to put up a fight against the then-growing new
              > > > chemical
              > > > > >fertilizer industry-a struggle that was continued in the next
              > century by
              > > > Sir
              > > > > >William Howard in England and J. I. Rodale in America.
              > > > > >
              > > > > >The use of chemical fertilizers, claimed Hensel, leads to the
              > following
              > > > evil
              > > > > >consequences:
              > > > > >
              > > > > >It poisons the soil, destroying beneficial soil bacteria, earthworms
              > and
              > > > > >humus. *
              > > > > >
              > > > > >It creates unhealthy, unbalanced, mineral-deficient plants, lacking
              > > > > >resistance to disease and insect pests, thus leading to the spraying
              > > > men-ace
              > > > > >in an effort to preserve these defective specimens.
              > > > > >
              > > > > >It leads to diseases among animals and men who feed on these
              > abnormal
              > > > plants
              > > > > >and their products.
              > > > > >
              > > > > >It leads to a tremendous expense to the farmer, because chemical
              > > > > >fertilizers, being extremely soluble, are quickly washed from the
              > soil
              > > > by
              > > > > >rainfall and needs constant replacement. (Powdered rocks, on the
              > other
              > > > hand,
              > > > > >being less soluble, are not so easily washed from the soil, but keep
              > > > > >releasing minerals to it for many years).
              > > > > >
              > > > > >* Decayed vegetable or animal matter that provides nutrients for
              > plants.
              > > > > >
              > > > > >The use of various pulverized rocks, [such] as granite, limestone,
              > rock
              > > > > >phosphate, etc., in place of chemical fertilizers, will lead,
              > claimed
              > > > > >Hensel, to permanent restoration of even poor soils to the balanced
              > > > mineral
              > > > > >con-tent of the best virgin soils; and the rock dust thus applied
              > will
              > > > > >remain year after year and not be washed away by rains or irrigation
              > > > water,
              > > > > >as is the case with highly soluble chemical fertilizers.
              > > > > >
              > > > > >This will be an economic saving to the grower and enable him to sell
              > > > foods
              > > > > >at a lower price than when he must spend large sums on chemical
              > > > fertilizers.
              > > > > >Also, since foods thus mineralized are healthy and immune to plant
              > > > diseases
              > > > > >and insect pests (as Hensel experimentally demonstrated), there is
              > no
              > > > need
              > > > > >for the expense and dangers of spraying.*
              > > > > >
              > > > > >* Editor's Note: Rock phosphate from some sources contains a high
              > level
              > > > of
              > > > > >the toxic mineral cadmium. It's wise to purchase rock phosphate from
              > a
              > > > > >supplier who's able to provide an analysis.
              > > > > >
              > > > > >Foods raised by Hensel's followers, including many German gardeners
              > and
              > > > > >farmers, who were enthusiastic in praise of his method, were found
              > to
              > > > > >possess firmer tissue and better shipping and keeping qualities than
              > > > those
              > > > > >raised with animal manure or chemicals. And most important among the
              > > > > >advantages of Hensel's agricultural discovery is that foods grown on
              > > > > >mineralized soil are higher both in mineral and vitamin content and
              > so
              > > > > >pro-duce better health and greater immunity to disease than those
              > grown
              > > > by
              > > > > >the use of chemical fertilizer sprays.
              > > > > >
              > > > > >To kill insects by poisons applied to plants does not remove the
              > cause
              > > > of
              > > > > >their infestation, and poisons both the insect as well as the human
              > > > consumer
              > > > > >of the sprayed plant. Only correct feeding of the soil, and
              > consequently
              > > > of
              > > > > >plants by trees, by proper methods of fertilization, thereby keeping
              > > > them
              > > > > >well-nourished, vigorous and free from disease, will accomplish
              > this,
              > > > for
              > > > > >insects do not seem to attack healthy plants. It appears that
              > insects,
              > > > like
              > > > > >scavengers, attack chiefly unhealthy and demineralized plants, not
              > > > healthy
              > > > > >ones.
              > > > > >
              > > > > >Dr. Charles Northern has performed experiments in which he raised
              > two
              > > > tomato
              > > > > >plants, entwined with each other, in different pots, one being
              > supplied
              > > > with
              > > > > >an abundance of trace minerals, derived from colloidal phosphate,
              > and
              > > > the
              > > > > >other just chemical fertilizer. The tomato plant grown with chemical
              > > > > >fertilizer alone was attacked by insects, while the other one given
              > > > trace
              > > > > >minerals was not.
              > > > > >
              > > > > >*Hensel pointed out that animal manure and chemical fertilizers
              > produce
              > > > a
              > > > > >forced, unnaturally rapid growth of large-sized produce which fail
              > to
              > > > > >acquire the minerals normally secured during a slower, longer
              > > > development.
              > > > > >The result is the production of demineralized, unbalanced plants,
              > which
              > > > are
              > > > > >weak and unhealthy, falling prey to disease and insect pests.
              > > > > >*
              > > > > >*This explains why, coincident with the increased use of chemical
              > > > > >fertilizers, during the past century, insect pests steadily
              > increased.
              > > > So
              > > > > >did cancerous conditions among plants, animals and humans, as shown
              > by
              > > > > >Keens, an English soil chemist, who presents statistics to show that
              > the
              > > > > >increased use of chemical fertilizers is a major cause of the
              > greater
              > > > > >incidence of cancer during that last hundred years.
              > > > > >*
              > > > > >*The modern Organic Farming movement has accepted and propagated one
              > of
              > > > > >Hensel's theories-his opposition to chemical fertilizers and
              > > > recommendation
              > > > > >of powdered rocks in their place-but has failed to appreciate his
              > other
              > > > main
              > > > > >doctrine-his opposition to the use of animal excrement's as plant
              > foods.
              > > > In
              > > > > >this respect, Hensel, though he lived in the last century, [was] far
              > > > ahead
              > > > > >of the Organic Movement and more modern than the most modern
              > > > agricultural
              > > > > >reformer.
              > > > > >*
              > > > > >Hensel had a great admirer and disciple in England, one Sampson
              > Morgan,
              > > > who
              > > > > >founded his "Clean Culture" doctrine on Hensel's philosophy of soil
              > and
              > > > > >biological regeneration by the avoidance of chemical or animal
              > > > fertilizers.
              > > > > >While Hensel was more of a theorist, Morgan was a practical farmer
              > and
              > > > > >agricultural experimenter, who proved the truth of Hensel's theories
              > by
              > > > > >winning the first prize at all agricultural exhibits at which his
              > > > > >super-sized, super-quality, disease - and blight - free rock-dust
              > > > fertilized
              > > > > >fruits and vegetables were displayed. In Sampson Morgan's Clean
              > Culture,
              > > > > >Morgan's views are presented.
              > > > > >
              > > > > >In reality they are Hensel's doctrines transplanted to English soil.
              > The
              > > > > >reading of Morgan's book will be a valuable supplement to [the
              > reading]
              > > > of
              > > > > >this, to give one a thorough understanding of the subject of Natural
              > > > > >Agriculture (i.e., a system of soil culture definitely in advance of
              > > > Organic
              > > > > >Gardening by the compost method).
              > > > > >
              > > > > >Practical experience with Hensel's Stone Meal and his non-animal
              > method
              > > > of
              > > > > >soil regeneration, has proven the following:
              > > > > >
              > > > > >That Stone Meal creates healthier, tastier, more vitaminized and
              > > > mineralized
              > > > > >foods.
              > > > > >
              > > > > >That Stone Meal creates immunity to insect infestation, worms, fungi
              > and
              > > > > >plant diseases of all kinds.
              > > > > >
              > > > > >That Stone Meal improves the keeping and shipping quality of foods,
              > so
              > > > that
              > > > > >they keep a long time, in contrast to the rapid deterioration of
              > foods
              > > > given
              > > > > >abundant animal manure.
              > > > > >
              > > > > >That Stone Meal helps plants to resist drought and frost, enabling
              > them
              > > > to
              > > > > >survive when those fed on manure and chemicals perish.
              > > > > >
              > > > > >That Stone Meal produces larger crops which are more profitable
              > because
              > > > the
              > > > > >farmer is saved the expense of buying chemical fertilizers which are
              > > > rapidly
              > > > > >leached from the soil by rainfall, whereas Stone Meal, being less
              > > > soluble,
              > > > > >is gradually released during the course of years and remain in the
              > soil,
              > > > > >being the most economical of fertilizers.
              > > > > >
              > > > > >That foods raised with Stone Meal are better for human health and
              > the
              > > > > >prevention of disease than those grown with chemicals or animal
              > manure.
              > > > > >
              > > > > >That use of Stone Meal, in place of chemical or animal fertilizers,
              > > > helps to
              > > > > >end the spraying menace (by removing its cause) is proven by the
              > fact
              > > > that
              > > > > >plants and trees grown with Stone Meal are immune to pests and so
              > > > require no
              > > > > >spraying.
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > >
              > http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/supressed_inventions/suppressed_in
              > > > > >ventions20.htm
              > > > > >
              > > > > >----------------------------------------------------------
              > > > > >----------------------------------------------------------
              > > > > >----------------------------------------------------------
              > > > > >-
              > > > > >Boovarahan S
              > > > > >Chennai.
              > > > > >09962662717 (Vodafone) , 08825889492 (Videocon)
              > > > > >
              > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > > > >
              > > > > >------------------------------------
              > > > > >
              > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              >
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Boovarahan Srinivasan
              Ok ! Bringing in any outside thing is not considered as natural farming. Though Fukuoka did not bring in anything from outside the ducks did it for him. What
              Message 6 of 23 , Aug 3, 2011
              • 0 Attachment
                Ok !

                Bringing in any outside thing is not considered as natural farming.
                Though Fukuoka did not bring in anything from outside the ducks did it for
                him.
                What if one doesn't grow livestock ?


                Boovarahan S
                Chennai.
                09962662717 (Vodafone) , 08825889492 (Videocon)


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • yajnesh shetty
                Fukuoka did use chicken manure from a neighbouring poultry farm. ________________________________ From: Boovarahan Srinivasan To:
                Message 7 of 23 , Aug 3, 2011
                • 0 Attachment
                  Fukuoka did use chicken manure from a neighbouring poultry farm.



                  ________________________________
                  From: Boovarahan Srinivasan <offtown@...>
                  To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Wednesday, August 3, 2011 4:37 PM
                  Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Re: A nice link


                   
                  Ok !

                  Bringing in any outside thing is not considered as natural farming.
                  Though Fukuoka did not bring in anything from outside the ducks did it for
                  him.
                  What if one doesn't grow livestock ?

                  Boovarahan S
                  Chennai.
                  09962662717 (Vodafone) , 08825889492 (Videocon)

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Boovarahan Srinivasan
                  May be that is not quite often but rarely. ... -- Boovarahan S Chennai. 09962662717 (Vodafone) , 08825889492 (Videocon) [Non-text portions of this message have
                  Message 8 of 23 , Aug 3, 2011
                  • 0 Attachment
                    May be that is not quite often but rarely.

                    On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 4:48 PM, yajnesh shetty <yajnesh@...> wrote:

                    > **
                    >
                    >
                    > Fukuoka did use chicken manure from a neighbouring poultry farm.
                    >
                    > ________________________________
                    > From: Boovarahan Srinivasan <offtown@...>
                    > To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Wednesday, August 3, 2011 4:37 PM
                    >
                    > Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Re: A nice link
                    >
                    >
                    > Ok !
                    >
                    > Bringing in any outside thing is not considered as natural farming.
                    > Though Fukuoka did not bring in anything from outside the ducks did it for
                    > him.
                    > What if one doesn't grow livestock ?
                    >
                    > Boovarahan S
                    > Chennai.
                    > 09962662717 (Vodafone) , 08825889492 (Videocon)
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >



                    --
                    Boovarahan S
                    Chennai.
                    09962662717 (Vodafone) , 08825889492 (Videocon)


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Harish Amur
                    I have a very basic question: How can crop farming be natural? Where do we find crops that grow the way they grow in our farm in Nature? Where did Fukuoka San
                    Message 9 of 23 , Aug 3, 2011
                    • 0 Attachment
                      I have a very basic question: How can crop farming be natural? Where do we
                      find crops that grow the way they grow in our farm in Nature? Where did
                      Fukuoka San see paddy crops growing naturally?

                      I ask this out of ignorance and not to challenge anything. Please do not
                      misunderstand me.


                      On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 6:24 PM, Boovarahan Srinivasan <offtown@...>wrote:

                      > May be that is not quite often but rarely.
                      >
                      > On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 4:48 PM, yajnesh shetty <yajnesh@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > > **
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Fukuoka did use chicken manure from a neighbouring poultry farm.
                      > >
                      > > ________________________________
                      > > From: Boovarahan Srinivasan <offtown@...>
                      > > To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                      > > Sent: Wednesday, August 3, 2011 4:37 PM
                      > >
                      > > Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Re: A nice link
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Ok !
                      > >
                      > > Bringing in any outside thing is not considered as natural farming.
                      > > Though Fukuoka did not bring in anything from outside the ducks did it
                      > for
                      > > him.
                      > > What if one doesn't grow livestock ?
                      > >
                      > > Boovarahan S
                      > > Chennai.
                      > > 09962662717 (Vodafone) , 08825889492 (Videocon)
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --
                      > Boovarahan S
                      > Chennai.
                      > 09962662717 (Vodafone) , 08825889492 (Videocon)
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Ruthie Aquino
                      Hi Harish, In my humble opinion, since we are not at the beginning of Creation but at the start of the 21st century then we have to do with the conditions and
                      Message 10 of 23 , Aug 3, 2011
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Hi Harish,
                        In my humble opinion, since we are not at the beginning of Creation but at
                        the start of the 21st century then we have to do with the conditions and
                        circumstances others through the ages have left us or imposed on us.
                        One such thing is farming.
                        If we look at present-day hunter-gatherer tribes they have no crops at all,
                        they just pick from the forest.
                        Then there are more "advanced" communities that have some root crops...etc.,
                        but nothing much more. I think they have never heard people discussing
                        planting and how to improve it. They just plant. No questions asked.
                        Those tribes or ethnic groups have been cut off from civilization, but we
                        haven't. We have heard of bumper crops, and Guiness records of the biggest
                        and the best, and per capita income and gross national product.
                        So...right now after having been introduced to natural farming we try hard
                        to do whatever we can.
                        I salute Booze whose will is to add nothing to what I gather is a harsh
                        environment for his crops. His faith in nature is absolute and he is brave
                        enough to go on with his initial idea of do-nothing agriculture.
                        However as I said we do not have a clean slate with which to start but one
                        upon which man has left his imprints.
                        So : to each his own, we try hard to be as close to nature as possible. As
                        I said earlier we need to support one another because we
                        encounter opposition and incomprehension from those not acquainted with the
                        Fukuoka way.
                        best
                        RUTHIE
                        2011/8/3 Harish Amur <harishamur@...>

                        > **
                        >
                        >
                        > I have a very basic question: How can crop farming be natural? Where do we
                        > find crops that grow the way they grow in our farm in Nature? Where did
                        > Fukuoka San see paddy crops growing naturally?
                        >
                        > I ask this out of ignorance and not to challenge anything. Please do not
                        > misunderstand me.
                        >
                        > On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 6:24 PM, Boovarahan Srinivasan <offtown@...>wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > > May be that is not quite often but rarely.
                        > >
                        > > On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 4:48 PM, yajnesh shetty <yajnesh@...>
                        > wrote:
                        > >
                        > > > **
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > Fukuoka did use chicken manure from a neighbouring poultry farm.
                        > > >
                        > > > ________________________________
                        > > > From: Boovarahan Srinivasan <offtown@...>
                        > > > To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                        > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 3, 2011 4:37 PM
                        > > >
                        > > > Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Re: A nice link
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > Ok !
                        > > >
                        > > > Bringing in any outside thing is not considered as natural farming.
                        > > > Though Fukuoka did not bring in anything from outside the ducks did it
                        > > for
                        > > > him.
                        > > > What if one doesn't grow livestock ?
                        > > >
                        > > > Boovarahan S
                        > > > Chennai.
                        > > > 09962662717 (Vodafone) , 08825889492 (Videocon)
                        > > >
                        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > > >
                        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > --
                        > > Boovarahan S
                        > > Chennai.
                        > > 09962662717 (Vodafone) , 08825889492 (Videocon)
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > ------------------------------------
                        > >
                        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Boovarahan Srinivasan
                        Growing or cultivation is itself artificial as we have a prejudice on growing one kind of crop over the others. So logically there can not be 100 % natural
                        Message 11 of 23 , Aug 3, 2011
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Growing or cultivation is itself artificial as we have a prejudice on
                          growing one kind of crop over the others. So logically there can not be 100
                          % natural farming . But what we can do is to mimic nature in producing the
                          grains / vegetables of our needs without killing other plants. That's why I
                          never uproot any plant but trim the size . In my sugarcane fields I have not
                          done this trimming too and allowed all weeds and grasses to grow
                          un-interrupted . At present my sugarcane plants just hold their lives
                          without any significant growth from the day of transplanting. I am still
                          hoping that they would soon pick up growth.

                          On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 10:18 PM, Harish Amur <harishamur@...> wrote:

                          > **
                          >
                          >
                          > I have a very basic question: How can crop farming be natural? Where do we
                          > find crops that grow the way they grow in our farm in Nature? Where did
                          > Fukuoka San see paddy crops growing naturally?
                          >
                          > I ask this out of ignorance and not to challenge anything. Please do not
                          > misunderstand me.
                          >

                          Boovarahan S
                          Chennai.
                          09962662717 (Vodafone) , 08825889492 (Videocon)


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Harish Amur
                          I had anticipated that you mistake me and so I had added an additional line ... Anyway, I am not against NF. I am a starter, but I have a very strong will to
                          Message 12 of 23 , Aug 3, 2011
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I had anticipated that you mistake me and so I had added an additional line
                            :)

                            Anyway, I am not against NF. I am a starter, but I have a very strong will
                            to not use chemicals in my field. We planted sugarcane in Feb '11 and they
                            have grown 8' tall now. We gave them a bit of 'jeevamruta', which is made
                            out of cow dung, cow urine, some jaggery and some flour. If we have a cow in
                            our farm next year, none of the materials that I list here would have to be
                            brought from outside. Further, this was done only twice. The weeds in the
                            sugar cane field are left to themselves. They are not cut. However there is
                            one weed which is quite dangerous (local knowledge) which we will try to
                            remove in the interest of the people who work there. And I believe that this
                            has to be done.

                            It has been 2 years now that we are growing crops naturally - to the extent
                            possible. And we have got good yield too. However, I have not been able to
                            convince our farmers on no-till and I am also quite confused on this
                            subject. The tilling is done using bullocks and wooden tools. These are not
                            harsh to the land. This opens up the land during the summer to the sun. The
                            insects are dead but are not removed. They reappear in abundance during the
                            rainy season. I felt that this is a natural process, since the land grows
                            dry naturally. Even the tall trees lose all their leaves by March. March and
                            April are the dry months. By May all the leaves reappear and the insect
                            activity resumes. Much like the seeds, the insect eggs or larva hibernates
                            during summer. Ants are very active during these months.

                            Though I wish to move to a no-till farming, I am finding it hard to bring
                            about that change in my farm, as the farmers are used to the bullock
                            assisted farming. They can seed the farm faster this way. I tell them not to
                            weed the farm. They listen to me selectively!

                            If I understand properly, the greatest contribution of Fukuoka-San was to
                            break the 'rigidity' and 'routine' of farming. He listened to his heart. If
                            we become rigid by saying that we should follow what he did and not deviate
                            a bit, it may not be right. As Boovarahan has said earlier, all of his
                            practices may not work in our farm. From this point of view, I wanted to see
                            if I can visit a place where I can get to see crops growing naturally. I
                            have visited a forest and have tried to understand the ambiance to whatever
                            extent possible.

                            Regards,
                            Harish





                            On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 7:16 AM, Boovarahan Srinivasan <offtown@...>wrote:

                            > **
                            >
                            >
                            > Growing or cultivation is itself artificial as we have a prejudice on
                            > growing one kind of crop over the others. So logically there can not be 100
                            > % natural farming . But what we can do is to mimic nature in producing the
                            > grains / vegetables of our needs without killing other plants. That's why I
                            > never uproot any plant but trim the size . In my sugarcane fields I have
                            > not
                            > done this trimming too and allowed all weeds and grasses to grow
                            > un-interrupted . At present my sugarcane plants just hold their lives
                            > without any significant growth from the day of transplanting. I am still
                            > hoping that they would soon pick up growth.
                            >
                            > On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 10:18 PM, Harish Amur <harishamur@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > > **
                            >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > I have a very basic question: How can crop farming be natural? Where do
                            > we
                            > > find crops that grow the way they grow in our farm in Nature? Where did
                            > > Fukuoka San see paddy crops growing naturally?
                            > >
                            > > I ask this out of ignorance and not to challenge anything. Please do not
                            > > misunderstand me.
                            > >
                            >
                            > Boovarahan S
                            > Chennai.
                            > 09962662717 (Vodafone) , 08825889492 (Videocon)
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >
                            >


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Sumant Joshi
                            Harish, I have heard of this Jivamruta. In Maharashtra it is called Amrut Paani. Amrut is the elixir of eternal life and paani is off course water. Proponents
                            Message 13 of 23 , Aug 3, 2011
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Harish, I have heard of this Jivamruta. In Maharashtra it is called Amrut Paani. Amrut is the elixir of eternal life and paani is off course water. Proponents of this thing are fanatical about it's uses. This is a mixture of 400 litres of water, about  5 kilos of cow dung, 5 litres of cow urine (Indian natural farmers insist that the 'local' cows should be used, not the imported cows) and hold your breath, half a kilo each of honey and clarified butter (desi ghee) again from a local cow's milk. Mix the whole thing and apply it to a totally barren acre of land. It supposed to rejuvenate the soil very quickly. You are also supposed to use about 5 kilos of soil from beneath the Banyan tree.



                              Sent from my BSNL landline B-fone


                              Warm regards,

                              Sumant Joshi
                              Tel - 09370010424, 0253-2361161



                              >________________________________
                              >From: Harish Amur <harishamur@...>
                              >To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                              >Sent: Thursday, 4 August 2011 10:01 AM
                              >Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Re: A nice link
                              >
                              >

                              >I had anticipated that you mistake me and so I had added an additional line
                              >:)
                              >
                              >Anyway, I am not against NF. I am a starter, but I have a very strong will
                              >to not use chemicals in my field. We planted sugarcane in Feb '11 and they
                              >have grown 8' tall now. We gave them a bit of 'jeevamruta', which is made
                              >out of cow dung, cow urine, some jaggery and some flour. If we have a cow in
                              >our farm next year, none of the materials that I list here would have to be
                              >brought from outside. Further, this was done only twice. The weeds in the
                              >sugar cane field are left to themselves. They are not cut. However there is
                              >one weed which is quite dangerous (local knowledge) which we will try to
                              >remove in the interest of the people who work there. And I believe that this
                              >has to be done.
                              >
                              >It has been 2 years now that we are growing crops naturally - to the extent
                              >possible. And we have got good yield too. However, I have not been able to
                              >convince our farmers on no-till and I am also quite confused on this
                              >subject. The tilling is done using bullocks and wooden tools. These are not
                              >harsh to the land. This opens up the land during the summer to the sun. The
                              >insects are dead but are not removed. They reappear in abundance during the
                              >rainy season. I felt that this is a natural process, since the land grows
                              >dry naturally. Even the tall trees lose all their leaves by March. March and
                              >April are the dry months. By May all the leaves reappear and the insect
                              >activity resumes. Much like the seeds, the insect eggs or larva hibernates
                              >during summer. Ants are very active during these months.
                              >
                              >Though I wish to move to a no-till farming, I am finding it hard to bring
                              >about that change in my farm, as the farmers are used to the bullock
                              >assisted farming. They can seed the farm faster this way. I tell them not to
                              >weed the farm. They listen to me selectively!
                              >
                              >If I understand properly, the greatest contribution of Fukuoka-San was to
                              >break the 'rigidity' and 'routine' of farming. He listened to his heart. If
                              >we become rigid by saying that we should follow what he did and not deviate
                              >a bit, it may not be right. As Boovarahan has said earlier, all of his
                              >practices may not work in our farm. From this point of view, I wanted to see
                              >if I can visit a place where I can get to see crops growing naturally. I
                              >have visited a forest and have tried to understand the ambiance to whatever
                              >extent possible.
                              >
                              >Regards,
                              >Harish
                              >
                              >On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 7:16 AM, Boovarahan Srinivasan <offtown@...>wrote:
                              >
                              >> **
                              >>
                              >>
                              >> Growing or cultivation is itself artificial as we have a prejudice on
                              >> growing one kind of crop over the others. So logically there can not be 100
                              >> % natural farming . But what we can do is to mimic nature in producing the
                              >> grains / vegetables of our needs without killing other plants. That's why I
                              >> never uproot any plant but trim the size . In my sugarcane fields I have
                              >> not
                              >> done this trimming too and allowed all weeds and grasses to grow
                              >> un-interrupted . At present my sugarcane plants just hold their lives
                              >> without any significant growth from the day of transplanting. I am still
                              >> hoping that they would soon pick up growth.
                              >>
                              >> On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 10:18 PM, Harish Amur <harishamur@...> wrote:
                              >>
                              >> > **
                              >>
                              >> >
                              >> >
                              >> > I have a very basic question: How can crop farming be natural? Where do
                              >> we
                              >> > find crops that grow the way they grow in our farm in Nature? Where did
                              >> > Fukuoka San see paddy crops growing naturally?
                              >> >
                              >> > I ask this out of ignorance and not to challenge anything. Please do not
                              >> > misunderstand me.
                              >> >
                              >>
                              >> Boovarahan S
                              >> Chennai.
                              >> 09962662717 (Vodafone) , 08825889492 (Videocon)
                              >>
                              >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >
                              >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Sumant Joshi
                              Well we have to grow food, don t we? otherwise we would have to turn hunter gatherers. so maybe it isn t natural in the strictest sense of the word but
                              Message 14 of 23 , Aug 3, 2011
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Well we have to 'grow' food, don't we? otherwise we would have to turn hunter gatherers. so maybe it isn't 'natural' in the strictest sense of the word but what Fukuoka San said was to 'imitate' nature' 



                                Sent from my BSNL landline B-fone


                                Warm regards,

                                Sumant Joshi
                                Tel - 09370010424, 0253-2361161



                                >________________________________
                                >From: Boovarahan Srinivasan <offtown@...>
                                >To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                                >Sent: Thursday, 4 August 2011 7:16 AM
                                >Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Re: A nice link
                                >
                                >

                                >Growing or cultivation is itself artificial as we have a prejudice on
                                >growing one kind of crop over the others. So logically there can not be 100
                                >% natural farming . But what we can do is to mimic nature in producing the
                                >grains / vegetables of our needs without killing other plants. That's why I
                                >never uproot any plant but trim the size . In my sugarcane fields I have not
                                >done this trimming too and allowed all weeds and grasses to grow
                                >un-interrupted . At present my sugarcane plants just hold their lives
                                >without any significant growth from the day of transplanting. I am still
                                >hoping that they would soon pick up growth.
                                >
                                >On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 10:18 PM, Harish Amur <harishamur@...> wrote:
                                >
                                >> **
                                >>
                                >>
                                >> I have a very basic question: How can crop farming be natural? Where do we
                                >> find crops that grow the way they grow in our farm in Nature? Where did
                                >> Fukuoka San see paddy crops growing naturally?
                                >>
                                >> I ask this out of ignorance and not to challenge anything. Please do not
                                >> misunderstand me.
                                >>
                                >
                                >Boovarahan S
                                >Chennai.
                                >09962662717 (Vodafone) , 08825889492 (Videocon)
                                >
                                >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Sumant Joshi
                                I like your sense of humour, Ruthie  Sent from my BSNL landline B-fone Warm regards, Sumant Joshi Tel - 09370010424, 0253-2361161 ... [Non-text portions of
                                Message 15 of 23 , Aug 3, 2011
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  I like your sense of humour, Ruthie 





                                  Sent from my BSNL landline B-fone


                                  Warm regards,

                                  Sumant Joshi
                                  Tel - 09370010424, 0253-2361161



                                  >________________________________
                                  >From: Ruthie Aquino <ruthieaquino1@...>
                                  >To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                                  >Sent: Wednesday, 3 August 2011 10:50 PM
                                  >Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Re: A nice link
                                  >
                                  >Hi Harish,
                                  >In my humble opinion, since we are not at the beginning of Creation but at
                                  >the start of the 21st century then we have to do with the conditions and
                                  >circumstances others through the ages have left us or imposed on us.
                                  >One such thing is farming.
                                  >If we look at present-day hunter-gatherer tribes they have no crops at all,
                                  >they just pick from the forest.
                                  >Then there are more "advanced" communities that have some root crops...etc.,
                                  >but nothing much more.  I think they have never heard people discussing
                                  >planting and how to improve it.  They just plant.  No questions asked.
                                  >Those tribes or ethnic groups have been cut off from civilization, but we
                                  >haven't.  We have heard of bumper crops, and Guiness records of the biggest
                                  >and the best, and per capita income and gross national product.
                                  >So...right now after having been introduced to natural farming we try hard
                                  >to do whatever we can.
                                  >I salute Booze whose will is to add nothing to what I gather is a harsh
                                  >environment for his crops.  His faith in nature is absolute and he is brave
                                  >enough to go on with his initial idea of do-nothing agriculture.
                                  >However as I said we do not have a clean slate with which to start but one
                                  >upon which man has left his imprints.
                                  >So : to each his own, we try hard to be as close to nature as possible.  As
                                  >I said earlier we need to support one another because we
                                  >encounter opposition and incomprehension from those not acquainted with the
                                  >Fukuoka way.
                                  >best
                                  >RUTHIE
                                  >2011/8/3 Harish Amur <harishamur@...>
                                  >
                                  >> **
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >> I have a very basic question: How can crop farming be natural? Where do we
                                  >> find crops that grow the way they grow in our farm in Nature? Where did
                                  >> Fukuoka San see paddy crops growing naturally?
                                  >>
                                  >> I ask this out of ignorance and not to challenge anything. Please do not
                                  >> misunderstand me.
                                  >>
                                  >> On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 6:24 PM, Boovarahan Srinivasan <offtown@...>wrote:
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >> > May be that is not quite often but rarely.
                                  >> >
                                  >> > On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 4:48 PM, yajnesh shetty <yajnesh@...>
                                  >> wrote:
                                  >> >
                                  >> > > **
                                  >> > >
                                  >> > >
                                  >> > > Fukuoka did use chicken manure from a neighbouring poultry farm.
                                  >> > >
                                  >> > > ________________________________
                                  >> > > From: Boovarahan Srinivasan <offtown@...>
                                  >> > > To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                                  >> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 3, 2011 4:37 PM
                                  >> > >
                                  >> > > Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Re: A nice link
                                  >> > >
                                  >> > >
                                  >> > > Ok !
                                  >> > >
                                  >> > > Bringing in any outside thing is not considered as natural farming.
                                  >> > > Though Fukuoka did not bring in anything from outside the ducks did it
                                  >> > for
                                  >> > > him.
                                  >> > > What if one doesn't grow livestock ?
                                  >> > >
                                  >> > > Boovarahan S
                                  >> > > Chennai.
                                  >> > > 09962662717 (Vodafone) , 08825889492 (Videocon)
                                  >> > >
                                  >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >> > >
                                  >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >> > >
                                  >> > >
                                  >> > >
                                  >> >
                                  >> >
                                  >> >
                                  >> > --
                                  >> > Boovarahan S
                                  >> > Chennai.
                                  >> > 09962662717 (Vodafone) , 08825889492 (Videocon)
                                  >> >
                                  >> >
                                  >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >> >
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                                • Boovarahan Srinivasan
                                  I have not mistaken you Harish ! I too tread on the same way. I selected a wrong time to sow the sugarcane seedlings and well, that may be one of the reason
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Aug 4, 2011
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                                    I have not mistaken you Harish !

                                    I too tread on the same way.

                                    I selected a wrong time to sow the sugarcane seedlings and well, that may be
                                    one of the reason for the non-growth . Yet I am waiting patiently for mother
                                    nature to start her work.

                                    On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 7:16 AM, Boovarahan Srinivasan <offtown@...>wrote:

                                    > Growing or cultivation is itself artificial as we have a prejudice on
                                    > growing one kind of crop over the others. So logically there can not be 100
                                    > % natural farming . But what we can do is to mimic nature in producing the
                                    > grains / vegetables of our needs without killing other plants. That's why I
                                    > never uproot any plant but trim the size . In my sugarcane fields I have not
                                    > done this trimming too and allowed all weeds and grasses to grow
                                    > un-interrupted . At present my sugarcane plants just hold their lives
                                    > without any significant growth from the day of transplanting. I am still
                                    > hoping that they would soon pick up growth.
                                    >
                                    > On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 10:18 PM, Harish Amur <harishamur@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    >> **
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >> I have a very basic question: How can crop farming be natural? Where do we
                                    >> find crops that grow the way they grow in our farm in Nature? Where did
                                    >> Fukuoka San see paddy crops growing naturally?
                                    >>
                                    >> I ask this out of ignorance and not to challenge anything. Please do not
                                    >> misunderstand me.
                                    >>
                                    >
                                    > Boovarahan S
                                    > Chennai.
                                    > 09962662717 (Vodafone) , 08825889492 (Videocon)
                                    >
                                    >


                                    --
                                    Boovarahan S
                                    Chennai.
                                    09962662717 (Vodafone) , 08825889492 (Videocon)


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