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Re: Draft of website intro

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  • Sean Phelan
    ... Larry, I d probably change it omit the fact that his family still runs it. Like so: To Fukuoka, farming is a part of a personal spiritual path. He is still
    Message 1 of 8 , Oct 3, 2002
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      >>The closing line seems to suggest that Fukuoka's family continues his
      >>way of farming, which we know is not so. Is there a gentle, non-
      >accusatory
      >>way of factually stating this?
      >
      >I really tried to come up with one but couldn't. Didn't have the
      >heart to lay out that brutal fact. Still trying to cope with it myself.
      >If you or anyone else can come up with a gentle way of saying this
      >then I'll add it.

      Larry, I'd probably change it omit the fact that his family still runs it.
      Like so:

      To Fukuoka, farming is a part of a personal spiritual path. He is
      still alive (as of October, 2002), still touring and teaching, and
      still following his path though he no longer works on the farm.

      This removes the implication.

      Sp


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    • Larry Haftl
      ... I m going to deal with this today or tomorrow. Your version sounds like it is pretty close to what the final copy will look like. Thanks for the input.
      Message 2 of 8 , Oct 3, 2002
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        At Thursday, 3 October 2002, you wrote:

        >To Fukuoka, farming is a part of a personal spiritual path. He is
        >still alive (as of October, 2002), still touring and teaching, and
        >still following his path though he no longer works on the farm.

        I'm going to deal with this today or tomorrow. Your version sounds
        like it is pretty close to what the final copy will look like. Thanks
        for the input.


        Larry Haftl
        larry@...
      • Justin .
        Please forgive my asking again, and I really mean know offence, but I would like to know why Fukuoka-san s family reverted to non-natural methods. I have been
        Message 3 of 8 , Oct 6, 2002
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          Please forgive my asking again, and I really mean know offence, but I would
          like to know why Fukuoka-san's family reverted to non-natural methods. I
          have been told by someone, that the ideas in the book (one straw revolution)
          are really great and that it sounds wonderful, but that there are problems
          which he had that were not in the book. This person gave the example that
          the fields (rice etc) were fine for however many years, but eventually were
          taken over by weeds. Does anyone know if there is any truth in that? So far
          I cannot understand how, if the techniques were really so good, if
          production was really higher, input costs lower and labour time lower, how
          could it be that his family didn't continue his way. Surely they would be
          the ones who could see the most clearly, as they would have been living
          there, working there, and so on. Somehow the logic doesn't add up to me.
          I really want to beleive that it can work. I was never even interested in
          farming untill I heard about Fukuoka from a friend of mine. Now I'm really
          interested, and can well imagine myself as a farmer. What was so far from my
          philosophy - farming, control of the environment to such extreme - I have
          now, thanking you guys also, so unseperable from my philosophy - farming,
          working with nature in harmonious relationship.
          I just want to understand. This is my courtship.

          Thank you
          Justin.





          >From: Larry Haftl <larry@...>

          > >The closing line seems to suggest that Fukuoka's family continues his
          > >way of farming, which we know is not so. Is there a gentle, non-
          >accusatory
          > >way of factually stating this?
          >
          >I really tried to come up with one but couldn't. Didn't have the
          >heart to lay out that brutal fact. Still trying to cope with it myself.
          >If you or anyone else can come up with a gentle way of saying this
          >then I'll add it.
          >Larry Haftl


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        • jamie
          Hello Justin, seems a perfectly sensible question to me and one that any one interested in following Fukuoka s techniques must be made aware of and answer for
          Message 4 of 8 , Oct 7, 2002
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            Hello Justin, seems a perfectly sensible question to me and one that any one
            interested in following Fukuoka's techniques must be made aware of and
            answer for themselves.

            I have no evidence to refute any claims to the impracticability of Fukuoka's
            Natural Farming, indeed, even in the face of the accepted fact of the
            children's reversion to conventional techniques, I do not feel the need for
            any. There are the books and their obviously deeply researched musings on
            nature and the apparent evidence of his rice and barley yields, there are
            even references to this or that professor from such and such university, but
            these are in Fukuoka's words and could of course be part of a huge charade.
            You could also point to the replication of his work by others in Japan we
            were reading recently from a post forwarded by Emilia from Kyle, or the use
            of Fukuoka's work by David Holmgren and Bill Mollison the founders of
            Permaculture.

            But actually for me the 'evidence' exists simply in the voice of Fukuoka in
            The One-Straw Revolution. It is of a man who has seen something so simple
            and yet so powerful and who goes on to dedicate his life to this insight. I
            don't know how you could falsify this voice or express such close knowledge
            of nature without actually having experienced it.

            You might also want to stop a moment and ask yourself why you're asking the
            question or even why others have been expressing their doubts. As an
            occidental I know I grow up in a culture that is inherently sceptical -
            modern thought begins with Descartes holing himself up in a room for three
            days to see what remains after he has flayed himself with doubt. The result
            "I think therefore I am", a distinctly meagre representation of the world
            and the social interactions that actually define the world for us.

            Such reductionism is the tool of scientific enquiry and as such seems wholly
            inappropriate when applied to Fukuoka. But ultimately the only 'proof' of
            the truth of what Fukuoka says is to develop your own version of Fukuoka's
            farming. Only by experiencing nature close at hand will you come to
            understand whether Fukuoka knew what he was doing or not. But for to do that
            you would have to already believe him to be bothered to start.

            In a society that constantly moves on to the 'latest thing' commitment
            becomes harder and harder. Doubts can always be sown. Because we have become
            hardened sceptics we would rather let anything go than be fooled. Sometimes
            we should just listen to ourselves when something inspires us and turn off
            the thunder of voices speaking on the radio, TV, newspapers and the chatter
            that is generated from these media.

            We should remember that it is not the goal for which we should aim, but the
            path along the way. If there ever was a joyful path through this life it
            would be something close to what Fukuoka outlines, a life spent close to
            nature, listening to its rhythms and adapting ourselves and our culture to
            those rhythms. We could do worse, sceptical/reductionist scienctific enquiry
            already has.

            Jamie
            Souscayrous


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Justin . <justinasia@...>
            To: <fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2002 11:10 AM
            Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Draft of website intro


            >
            > Please forgive my asking again, and I really mean know offence, but I
            would
            > like to know why Fukuoka-san's family reverted to non-natural methods. I
            > have been told by someone, that the ideas in the book (one straw
            revolution)
            > are really great and that it sounds wonderful, but that there are problems
            > which he had that were not in the book. This person gave the example that
            > the fields (rice etc) were fine for however many years, but eventually
            were
            > taken over by weeds. Does anyone know if there is any truth in that? So
            far
            > I cannot understand how, if the techniques were really so good, if
            > production was really higher, input costs lower and labour time lower, how
            > could it be that his family didn't continue his way. Surely they would be
            > the ones who could see the most clearly, as they would have been living
            > there, working there, and so on. Somehow the logic doesn't add up to me.
            > I really want to beleive that it can work. I was never even interested in
            > farming untill I heard about Fukuoka from a friend of mine. Now I'm really
            > interested, and can well imagine myself as a farmer. What was so far from
            my
            > philosophy - farming, control of the environment to such extreme - I have
            > now, thanking you guys also, so unseperable from my philosophy - farming,
            > working with nature in harmonious relationship.
            > I just want to understand. This is my courtship.
            >
            > Thank you
            > Justin.
            >
          • Justin .
            ... Fukuoka-style agriculture. I want to learn more about them and, if possible, contact some of their members. Me too. Let us know what you find out. ...
            Message 5 of 8 , Oct 7, 2002
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              Bob wrote:
              >the Buddhist Santi Asoke seem the most motivated to
              Fukuoka-style agriculture. I want to learn more about them
              and, if possible, contact some of their members.

              Me too. Let us know what you find out.

              >You say that someone has mentioned
              problems with weeds and a breakdown in Fukuoka's system at some
              point. Can you tell us where you heard this? Is there anything in
              writing to document it?

              Heard it from a chap doing agroforestry. i think agroforestry sounds great
              by the way. Are you guys into that? It sounds to me totally
              Fukuoka-compatable. Is that the case?
              Sorry, nothing in writing.

              >Perhaps natural farming is not as
              productive as industrial style farming. Perhaps it is only more
              sustainable.

              I the One Straw Revolution, fukuoka was saying that his yields from his
              fields were as good as the best in his prefecture, and said that his
              prefecture was the best in Japan, so that his might be as good as the best
              in Japan.
              Isn't one of the list with Fukuoka now? If you're out there, perhaps you
              could ask him about it.


              Jamie wrote:
              >Fukuoka's words and could of course be part of a huge charade.

              Not what I was thinking

              >But actually for me the 'evidence' exists simply in the voice of Fukuoka in
              The One-Straw Revolution. It is of a man who has seen something so simple
              and yet so powerful and who goes on to dedicate his life to this insight. I
              don't know how you could falsify this voice or express such close knowledge
              of nature without actually having experienced it.

              Yes I thoroughly agree with you. I think he is wonderful, and I beleive him.
              My only concern is that there may have been some things gone unsaid - that
              is what the guy was saying. Basically he was saying that it is great, but
              not as wonderful as it sounds. I am cuious because there just seems to be
              something missing from the equation. Like Bob wrote, perhaps it is peer
              pressure, or something unconnected to the actual practicle result. I just
              like to be aware of and have a broad perspective of something before
              entering it and investing much time and energy. In fact that it why I have
              joined this list. Like I say, I am courting. And I thank all of you very
              much for helping me with this. Sorry that I don't have anything to offer in
              terms of experience. But it's great to be listening in.
              Thanks again,
              Justin.







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