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Re: [fukuoka_farming] High density tree planting

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  • Robin, Maya, or Napi
    Thank you, Larry, That beautiful story will be told today, in a presentation that means much to us here. The governor s appointed Falls of the James Scenic
    Message 1 of 7 , Oct 3, 2002
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      Thank you, Larry,
      That beautiful story will be told today, in a presentation that
      means much to us here. The governor's appointed Falls of the James
      Scenic River Commission will hear our appeal from noon to 2:00. We
      ask that they recommend to City Council that the city acquire the last
      105' by 110' parcel of the greenway between the university, our river
      bluff neighborhood, & the James River. The parcel, fondly called the
      "missing link", is at the intersection of a T shape park system, with
      the top of the T running along the river & including our neighborhood
      symbol, a hundred year old gazebo. The greenway stem of the T
      includes the park that I correspond with this group about, & some
      hundred+ year old trees that we are trying to save from a developer
      who has proposed-is this classic-a parking lot on the land for a
      proposed apartment complex. That the park has been truncated, & by
      one of the world's nastiest polluters at that, has meant that we
      clamber up & down a steep & rough rocky bank, while just across the
      river, the wealthy neighborhood has two bridge/ramp/stair entrances to
      the James River Park system, one of the finest urban river rapids in
      the U.S. If our community's park committee, represented today at the
      Commission by our small school, gains the vote of this prestigious
      body, then it will go a long way toward the city Department of Parks &
      Recreation's acceptance, if not respect, for our natural farming of
      the alley boundary, which has been called "an eyesore" by Department
      staff, who like their flowers to stand like soldiers, evenly spaced.
      While I credit this group for the on-going encouragement of our
      Fukuoka inspired project, I may just tell your story as having come
      from a wise man in the group, unless you can use some quote points in
      Richmond, Virginia. The greenway is for generations of our children.

      Larry Haftl wrote:

      > At Thursday, 3 October 2002, jamie wrote:
      >
      > >Hello Larry, I've nothing to add to your fine Fukuoka Introduction,
      > but
      > >would like to comment on these high density orchards.
      >
      > a bunch deleted for brevity...
      >
      > >Larry, if you get any more details of your local orchardists work,
      > let me
      > >know: I'm willing to be persuaded.
      >
      > If I get a chance I'll pay him a visit in the next week or two to
      > pick his brain, but in all honesty I really don't want to "persuade"
      >
      > you or anyone to use this method. I don't mind giving you the
      > information,
      > but like you I have a hard time reconciling it with what Fukuoka
      > is saying. I live in a "quick return" culture that more and more
      > jars at my sensibilities. For someone who wants to harvest a bunch
      > of fruit from a small space starting in six to eight years (an
      > eternity
      > to most Americans I think) this technique would probably work.
      >
      > Personally I would rather be like the old Afghan who had just
      > planted
      > a young sapling next to a bench in an otherwise barren and desolate
      > landscape. This was shortly after the US invaded Afghanistan and
      > one of our soldiers asked the old man why he had planted the tree.
      > "Surely you'll be dead before that tree gives any shade," said the
      > soldier. "Yes," said the old man, "but this tree is not for me, it's
      >
      > for my children."
      >
      >
      > Larry Haftl
      > larry@...
      > http://larryhaftl.com/fukuoka
      > http://FukuokaNaturalFarming.org
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
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    • Sean Phelan
      ... Larry, Although I agree that quick return and instant America are not good things, there are other pressures and reasons to hurry. 6-8 years is an
      Message 2 of 7 , Oct 3, 2002
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        > I live in a "quick return" culture that more and more
        > jars at my sensibilities. For someone who wants to harvest a bunch
        > of fruit from a small space starting in six to eight years (an eternity
        > to most Americans I think) this technique would probably work.

        Larry,

        Although I agree that "quick return" and "instant America" are not good things, there are other pressures and reasons to hurry.

        6-8 years is an eternity for your own fruit, when you look at it from another perspective:
        1) We're eating fruits loaded with pesticides . 6 years is a long time to poison yourself
        -OR-
        2) We're eating organic fruits from 1000's of miles away. That's a lot of pollution and gas consumption, just to get the fruits to your fridge.

        3) Either way, we're encouraging the loss of biodiversity that inevitably comes with large-scale agriculture.

        Personally, I'd rather deal with the "unnatural" of doing some pruning, than the "even-more-unnatural" stated above.

        Where I live in Florida, organic apples come from NY(1200 miles away) and organic "anything-else" comes from California (3000 miles away)
        Even organic citrus comes from California (think about that one ... Florida imports organic oranges from California)

        I'll be happy to prune a bit to stop that, but I'd probably just snip of a little branch every few weeks, instead of some huge pruning once a year.

        You have to figure that even in Nature, a tree can lose a branch or two from an animal running through or a deer coming to browse.

        Sp

        -------------------------------------------
        Sean Phelan
        Sequoia Consulting - Internet solutions that make sense
        http://www.sqcn.com
        mailto:SPhelan@...
        http://www.TheSCIA.Org - Proud Member of the Space Coast Internet Alliance
        (321) 984-0211
      • Larry Haftl
        ... I always like to get a byline on my work. In this case wise man in the group sounds ego-inflating enough to satisfy... :) Good luck with your
        Message 3 of 7 , Oct 3, 2002
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          At Thursday, 03 October 2002, you wrote:

          > While I credit this group for the on-going encouragement of our
          >Fukuoka inspired project, I may just tell your story as having come
          >from a wise man in the group, unless you can use some quote points in
          >Richmond, Virginia. The greenway is for generations of our children.

          I always like to get a byline on my work. In this case "wise man
          in the group" sounds ego-inflating enough to satisfy... :)

          Good luck with your presentation. Sounds like you have an economic
          justice issue as well as environmental one. Hope you succeed.

          BTW, I still don't know if you are Robin, Maya or Napi. Is this a
          well-kept secret, do you have a multiple personality, or do all three
          of you speak on this list with the same delightful voice?

          Larry Haftl
          larry@...
        • Larry Haftl
          ... good ... fridge. I can understand those pressures and desires. Fortunately, I am literally surrounded by organic farms and orchards that give me the time
          Message 4 of 7 , Oct 3, 2002
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            At Thursday, 3 October 2002, Sean wrote:

            >Although I agree that "quick return" and "instant America" are not
            good
            >things, there are other pressures and reasons to hurry.
            >
            >6-8 years is an eternity for your own fruit, when you look at it from
            >another perspective:
            >1) We're eating fruits loaded with pesticides . 6 years is a long time
            >to poison yourself
            >-OR-
            >2) We're eating organic fruits from 1000's of miles away. That's a lot
            >of pollution and gas consumption, just to get the fruits to your
            fridge.

            I can understand those pressures and desires. Fortunately, I am literally
            surrounded by organic farms and orchards that give me the time to
            think about what I'm doing rather than act from desparation.

            >Where I live in Florida, organic apples come from NY(1200 miles away)
            >and organic "anything-else" comes from California (3000 miles away)
            >Even organic citrus comes from California (think about that one
            .. Florida
            >imports organic oranges from California)

            Having spent some time in both Florida and California it doesn't
            surprise me. What I have trouble with is living in a major grape-
            growing region and eating grapes that come from Chile. BTW, I'm planting
            some grape vines in spring...

            >I'll be happy to prune a bit to stop that, but I'd probably just snip
            >of a little branch every few weeks, instead of some huge pruning once
            >a year.

            Actually, if you go this route you do a major pruning once in summer
            and then some touchups in fall and late winter. It's not the kind
            of thing that makes sense doing a nibble at a time.

            >You have to figure that even in Nature, a tree can lose a branch
            or two
            >from an animal running through or a deer coming to browse.

            I have deer come and share our apples on a regular basis. Never broke
            a branch. They are surprisingly delicate eaters. The upside of having
            deer browse on your garden or orchard is that it gives a sense of
            sharing with nature that is unique. The downside is that you can't
            shoot them when deer season opens because they've become "pets".

            I understand what you are saying about branches being broken by natural
            forces, but pruning is only part of the problem. Transplanting saplings
            is a bigger one. Fukuoka promotes growing trees from seeds. Something
            almost nobody seems willing or able to do. But it is the only way
            to get a truly native/natural tree. If you have the patience to plant
            seeds and wait for the orchard to grow then you have patience to
            never prune them. If you are going to transplant a tree then what
            does it matter if you prune it?

            Larry Haftl
            larry@...
            http://larryhaftl.com/fukuoka
            http://FukuokaNaturalFarming.org
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