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Re: [fukuoka_farming] Draft of website intro

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  • Larry Haftl
    ... separated I KNOW I ve got a Spelchek around here somewhere... All excellent suggestions and I ll all of the changes except maybe the last one. Thanks for
    Message 1 of 8 , Oct 3, 2002
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      At Wednesday, 2 October 2002, Robert Monie wrote:

      >Hi Larry,
      >Seems like a good job to me. Just a few minor proofreading corrections:
      >Change "seperated' (world's most common mispelling) in line 19 to
      "separated"

      I KNOW I've got a Spelchek around here somewhere...

      All excellent suggestions and I'll all of the changes except maybe
      the last one. Thanks for the editing. I REALLY appreciate it. If
      you do any more could you just quote a bit of the line rather than
      refer to it by a number? I don't have the lines numbered on my text
      and it would make it easier to find.


      >The closing line seems to suggest that Fukuoka's family continues his
      >way of farming, which we know is not so. Is there a gentle, non-
      accusatory
      >way of factually stating this?

      I really tried to come up with one but couldn't. Didn't have the
      heart to lay out that brutal fact. Still trying to cope with it myself.
      If you or anyone else can come up with a gentle way of saying this
      then I'll add it.



      Larry Haftl
      larry@...
      http://larryhaftl.com/fukuoka
      http://FukuokaNaturalFarming.org
    • Sean Phelan
      ... Larry, I d probably change it omit the fact that his family still runs it. Like so: To Fukuoka, farming is a part of a personal spiritual path. He is still
      Message 2 of 8 , Oct 3, 2002
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        >>The closing line seems to suggest that Fukuoka's family continues his
        >>way of farming, which we know is not so. Is there a gentle, non-
        >accusatory
        >>way of factually stating this?
        >
        >I really tried to come up with one but couldn't. Didn't have the
        >heart to lay out that brutal fact. Still trying to cope with it myself.
        >If you or anyone else can come up with a gentle way of saying this
        >then I'll add it.

        Larry, I'd probably change it omit the fact that his family still runs it.
        Like so:

        To Fukuoka, farming is a part of a personal spiritual path. He is
        still alive (as of October, 2002), still touring and teaching, and
        still following his path though he no longer works on the farm.

        This removes the implication.

        Sp


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        Sean Phelan
        Sequoia Consulting - Internet solutions that make sense
        http://www.sqcn.com
        mailto:SPhelan@...
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        (321) 984-0211
      • Larry Haftl
        ... I m going to deal with this today or tomorrow. Your version sounds like it is pretty close to what the final copy will look like. Thanks for the input.
        Message 3 of 8 , Oct 3, 2002
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          At Thursday, 3 October 2002, you wrote:

          >To Fukuoka, farming is a part of a personal spiritual path. He is
          >still alive (as of October, 2002), still touring and teaching, and
          >still following his path though he no longer works on the farm.

          I'm going to deal with this today or tomorrow. Your version sounds
          like it is pretty close to what the final copy will look like. Thanks
          for the input.


          Larry Haftl
          larry@...
        • Justin .
          Please forgive my asking again, and I really mean know offence, but I would like to know why Fukuoka-san s family reverted to non-natural methods. I have been
          Message 4 of 8 , Oct 6, 2002
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            Please forgive my asking again, and I really mean know offence, but I would
            like to know why Fukuoka-san's family reverted to non-natural methods. I
            have been told by someone, that the ideas in the book (one straw revolution)
            are really great and that it sounds wonderful, but that there are problems
            which he had that were not in the book. This person gave the example that
            the fields (rice etc) were fine for however many years, but eventually were
            taken over by weeds. Does anyone know if there is any truth in that? So far
            I cannot understand how, if the techniques were really so good, if
            production was really higher, input costs lower and labour time lower, how
            could it be that his family didn't continue his way. Surely they would be
            the ones who could see the most clearly, as they would have been living
            there, working there, and so on. Somehow the logic doesn't add up to me.
            I really want to beleive that it can work. I was never even interested in
            farming untill I heard about Fukuoka from a friend of mine. Now I'm really
            interested, and can well imagine myself as a farmer. What was so far from my
            philosophy - farming, control of the environment to such extreme - I have
            now, thanking you guys also, so unseperable from my philosophy - farming,
            working with nature in harmonious relationship.
            I just want to understand. This is my courtship.

            Thank you
            Justin.





            >From: Larry Haftl <larry@...>

            > >The closing line seems to suggest that Fukuoka's family continues his
            > >way of farming, which we know is not so. Is there a gentle, non-
            >accusatory
            > >way of factually stating this?
            >
            >I really tried to come up with one but couldn't. Didn't have the
            >heart to lay out that brutal fact. Still trying to cope with it myself.
            >If you or anyone else can come up with a gentle way of saying this
            >then I'll add it.
            >Larry Haftl


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          • jamie
            Hello Justin, seems a perfectly sensible question to me and one that any one interested in following Fukuoka s techniques must be made aware of and answer for
            Message 5 of 8 , Oct 7, 2002
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              Hello Justin, seems a perfectly sensible question to me and one that any one
              interested in following Fukuoka's techniques must be made aware of and
              answer for themselves.

              I have no evidence to refute any claims to the impracticability of Fukuoka's
              Natural Farming, indeed, even in the face of the accepted fact of the
              children's reversion to conventional techniques, I do not feel the need for
              any. There are the books and their obviously deeply researched musings on
              nature and the apparent evidence of his rice and barley yields, there are
              even references to this or that professor from such and such university, but
              these are in Fukuoka's words and could of course be part of a huge charade.
              You could also point to the replication of his work by others in Japan we
              were reading recently from a post forwarded by Emilia from Kyle, or the use
              of Fukuoka's work by David Holmgren and Bill Mollison the founders of
              Permaculture.

              But actually for me the 'evidence' exists simply in the voice of Fukuoka in
              The One-Straw Revolution. It is of a man who has seen something so simple
              and yet so powerful and who goes on to dedicate his life to this insight. I
              don't know how you could falsify this voice or express such close knowledge
              of nature without actually having experienced it.

              You might also want to stop a moment and ask yourself why you're asking the
              question or even why others have been expressing their doubts. As an
              occidental I know I grow up in a culture that is inherently sceptical -
              modern thought begins with Descartes holing himself up in a room for three
              days to see what remains after he has flayed himself with doubt. The result
              "I think therefore I am", a distinctly meagre representation of the world
              and the social interactions that actually define the world for us.

              Such reductionism is the tool of scientific enquiry and as such seems wholly
              inappropriate when applied to Fukuoka. But ultimately the only 'proof' of
              the truth of what Fukuoka says is to develop your own version of Fukuoka's
              farming. Only by experiencing nature close at hand will you come to
              understand whether Fukuoka knew what he was doing or not. But for to do that
              you would have to already believe him to be bothered to start.

              In a society that constantly moves on to the 'latest thing' commitment
              becomes harder and harder. Doubts can always be sown. Because we have become
              hardened sceptics we would rather let anything go than be fooled. Sometimes
              we should just listen to ourselves when something inspires us and turn off
              the thunder of voices speaking on the radio, TV, newspapers and the chatter
              that is generated from these media.

              We should remember that it is not the goal for which we should aim, but the
              path along the way. If there ever was a joyful path through this life it
              would be something close to what Fukuoka outlines, a life spent close to
              nature, listening to its rhythms and adapting ourselves and our culture to
              those rhythms. We could do worse, sceptical/reductionist scienctific enquiry
              already has.

              Jamie
              Souscayrous


              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Justin . <justinasia@...>
              To: <fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2002 11:10 AM
              Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Draft of website intro


              >
              > Please forgive my asking again, and I really mean know offence, but I
              would
              > like to know why Fukuoka-san's family reverted to non-natural methods. I
              > have been told by someone, that the ideas in the book (one straw
              revolution)
              > are really great and that it sounds wonderful, but that there are problems
              > which he had that were not in the book. This person gave the example that
              > the fields (rice etc) were fine for however many years, but eventually
              were
              > taken over by weeds. Does anyone know if there is any truth in that? So
              far
              > I cannot understand how, if the techniques were really so good, if
              > production was really higher, input costs lower and labour time lower, how
              > could it be that his family didn't continue his way. Surely they would be
              > the ones who could see the most clearly, as they would have been living
              > there, working there, and so on. Somehow the logic doesn't add up to me.
              > I really want to beleive that it can work. I was never even interested in
              > farming untill I heard about Fukuoka from a friend of mine. Now I'm really
              > interested, and can well imagine myself as a farmer. What was so far from
              my
              > philosophy - farming, control of the environment to such extreme - I have
              > now, thanking you guys also, so unseperable from my philosophy - farming,
              > working with nature in harmonious relationship.
              > I just want to understand. This is my courtship.
              >
              > Thank you
              > Justin.
              >
            • Justin .
              ... Fukuoka-style agriculture. I want to learn more about them and, if possible, contact some of their members. Me too. Let us know what you find out. ...
              Message 6 of 8 , Oct 7, 2002
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                Bob wrote:
                >the Buddhist Santi Asoke seem the most motivated to
                Fukuoka-style agriculture. I want to learn more about them
                and, if possible, contact some of their members.

                Me too. Let us know what you find out.

                >You say that someone has mentioned
                problems with weeds and a breakdown in Fukuoka's system at some
                point. Can you tell us where you heard this? Is there anything in
                writing to document it?

                Heard it from a chap doing agroforestry. i think agroforestry sounds great
                by the way. Are you guys into that? It sounds to me totally
                Fukuoka-compatable. Is that the case?
                Sorry, nothing in writing.

                >Perhaps natural farming is not as
                productive as industrial style farming. Perhaps it is only more
                sustainable.

                I the One Straw Revolution, fukuoka was saying that his yields from his
                fields were as good as the best in his prefecture, and said that his
                prefecture was the best in Japan, so that his might be as good as the best
                in Japan.
                Isn't one of the list with Fukuoka now? If you're out there, perhaps you
                could ask him about it.


                Jamie wrote:
                >Fukuoka's words and could of course be part of a huge charade.

                Not what I was thinking

                >But actually for me the 'evidence' exists simply in the voice of Fukuoka in
                The One-Straw Revolution. It is of a man who has seen something so simple
                and yet so powerful and who goes on to dedicate his life to this insight. I
                don't know how you could falsify this voice or express such close knowledge
                of nature without actually having experienced it.

                Yes I thoroughly agree with you. I think he is wonderful, and I beleive him.
                My only concern is that there may have been some things gone unsaid - that
                is what the guy was saying. Basically he was saying that it is great, but
                not as wonderful as it sounds. I am cuious because there just seems to be
                something missing from the equation. Like Bob wrote, perhaps it is peer
                pressure, or something unconnected to the actual practicle result. I just
                like to be aware of and have a broad perspective of something before
                entering it and investing much time and energy. In fact that it why I have
                joined this list. Like I say, I am courting. And I thank all of you very
                much for helping me with this. Sorry that I don't have anything to offer in
                terms of experience. But it's great to be listening in.
                Thanks again,
                Justin.







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