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RE: [fukuoka_farming] Controlling weeds and effect of weeds

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  • Anand Saraf
    Dear Jason, Thank you for the detailed and very useful email. I agree with most of what you said and have been trying to incorporate in my farming. We are
    Message 1 of 14 , Nov 22, 2010
      Dear Jason,



      Thank you for the detailed and very useful email. I agree with most of what you said and have been trying to incorporate in my farming. We are trying hard to both keep the trees as far as possible (I feel physically hurt to see a tree being cut down) and also keep the natural vegetation.



      I have been lucky that our land has a fairly large number of trees and so we have dense tree cover, although the average height is not much (between 30 and 50 feet). This is because the previous owners had cut all the trees once about 20 years ago.



      Since these are coffee growing regions, the natural crop of the region is coffee. But I am happy to say that I took up farming for the passion and not “making money” J so we try hard to find the natural balance of things.



      Warm regards

      Anand



      From: Jason Stewart [mailto:macropneuma@...]
      Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 16:21
      To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
      Cc: Anand Saraf
      Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Controlling weeds and effect of weeds



      Dear friend Mr. Anand Saraf, and Mr. Raju,



      Please Mr. Anand Saraf, ask advice here from long-time practitioners Mr. Raju (MP) & co., on your goals and principles.

      We & most of all late Mr. Fukuoka sensei, and myself in my own nature farm here in S.E. Australia, are all about encouraging the natural growth of jungle, and sowing seeds of human food crops into areas which where once jungle until the jungle returns. etcetera.



      There are many examples of growing human food crops and even drug-crops-such-as-coffee, inside jungles. They do better than in destroyed fields, in many case-studies i've seen.

      The timing is critical, of hand-cutting low-down of the low-growing-plants, and planting the crop in that cut-mulch.

      The more you immerse yourself in the life-cycles of the plants there (& animals), extensively-observing their own timing, the easier your natural-(intuitive)-choice of timing - this means, of course, recognising the different species of plants growing naturally there and observing for some substantial time.

      Please don't assume that the jungle low-growing-vegetation competes with your crop plantings, when in fact very often they will join their roots together and mutually help each other. (References for this are available i have to look their details up, for example citations in David Suzuki's book: "Tree: A biography")

      Really, if your crop plantings are of a species which is less suited to that environment than what is already growing there, then in simple logic the only way you will get those less suited plantings to-grow-themselves-more than what is already growing there and suited growing there, is to artificially-destructively turn the land towards a desert to stop the best-suited-plants growing.

      None of us really in our right-minds wants desertification, like that, surely (?).

      This group on late Mr. Fukuoka sensei farming surely cannot encourage desertification even in a partial sense.

      Even towards what we in Australia call a green-desert - meaning the vegetation getting destroyed & reduced-in-height, or even reduced merely from 3 dimensions to near-only-two dimensions. For example destroying jungle-forest - making it into grassland, like the ancestors did in my nature farming - clearing the jungle for grass -dairy farming.



      I've listened to Mr. Bhaskar Save & co. with late Mr. Fukuoka sensei on his farm in 1997 in the movie chatting & joking about "Jamun fruits" falling naturally into one's mouth (accidently) without even picking them off the tree! -Late Mr. Fukuoka sensei mentioned that about this, as Philippines' proverb, also.

      "Jamun fruits" also called Jambul, native from India, the same genus of plant species as many, more than 50, species of jungle trees here in Australia.

      -> http://plantnet.rbgsyd.nsw.gov.au/cgi-bin/NSWfl.pl?page=nswfl <http://plantnet.rbgsyd.nsw.gov.au/cgi-bin/NSWfl.pl?page=nswfl&lvl=gn&name=Syzygium> &lvl=gn&name=Syzygium

      Please, all, let us know more about these Jamun fruits - i've never been to India, never tried Jamun fruits and have eaten various similar related Australian native fruits

      *Jamun fruits or Jambul or Syzygium cumini*:

      -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jambul

      Also called "Jaam/Kalojaam, Jamun, Nerale Hannu, Naval pazham,Neredupandu, Jamblang, Jambolan, Jambula, Black Plum, Damson Plum, Duhat Plum, Jambolan Plum, Java Plum or Portuguese Plum."



      Please list as many jungle plant species growing there, as you can identify and their uses if you know them, and people here will expand on the information and more on their uses to you, for food and value, which you can get by-product of money. I know that at least i alone can do this researching for you briefly with my background in plants (natural-botany) even though i haven't ever been to India nor know the plants-flora there. The background in plants of the world with the internet can open up great wonders



      Here in Australia, we (at least some of us Aussie's who aren't racialist!), humbly learn incredible volumes of great information on the subject of edible plant species in our jungles and different forests (eg. Eucalypt forests...) from first-Australians -Aborigines-

      (indigenous peoples - we don't call tribal/tribals because the classical social isn't tribal, isn't having chiefs, rather it is structural-equality, egalitarian - natural people - natural society!).

      May i commend to you the-same-learning there in India, from Indian-peoples-so-called-'tribals'.

      (This word "tribals" construes these peoples' dignity & identities offensively to my perceptions, and so bothers me - i don't know its Indian language-usage-history, so i can't strongly criticise it yet, but my intuition about this words use bothers me regarding prejudice - it seems to me, a prejudice instead of a respect despite its wide use by many Indian people i-personally-know, who are otherwise respectful people.)



      Nature Farming exemplified by late Mr. Fukuoka sensei, and Mr. Raju Titus, Mr. Bhaskar Save and many there in India (Mr. Rao & Mr. Bapna, et al) is never about motivation for cash cropping - cash revenue from natural farming is never the motivation - always only the *by-product* by gift from nature-god-humans. The motivation is encouraging all nature-god-humanity - In late Mr. Fukuoka sensei's words: "The ultimate goal of farming is not the growing of crops, but the cultivation and perfection of human beings."



      I'm glad you do not raze the jungle; however please don't kill the jungle by a-thousand-cuts to make money from coffee cash crops calling that nature farming in the name of late Mr. Fukuoka sensei.

      *If* you have set-in-concrete-your-plan, to grow coffee for a cash crop, by clearing the low-growing plants out of the jungle, then you can't call that nature-farming in the sense of late Mr. Fukuoka sensei - i will not fret myself over *your choice* though. I commend to you better choices of plants/crops consisting of much more diversity. Your choice and your responsibility - hence that's why i will not fret, i'll be sad if you destroy some of the jungle but not fret, not getting stuck on that. I hope here to influence to better ways of life... .



      I'm really glad if actually do you make money well *from helping nature & jungles to grow taller & thicker &'stronger'*.

      Late Mr. Fukuoka sensei always says that the trees in areas of jungle or former-jungle should naturally grow 100 metres high! (more or less, approximately) -as an indication of true nature. Having many many (hundreds) plant species naturally in them.

      I suppose like most of the world nowadays the jungle trees, sadly, there aren't yet-back-again to so tall as that.

      In my nature farm they aren't yet either, much of it was destroyed 50-150 years ago for cash-dairy-farming.

      It's growing back now with inspiration from late Mr. Fukuoka sensei, and all of you nature-farmers.

      The trees here were recorded as 70 metres high about 50-100 years ago, and;

      120 yards high trees! where recorded in one exaggerated, dramatised-written-description from an early British-Australian visitor, nearby to where my nature-farm is today, about 170 years ago (1830s-1840s).

      (Reference: "A narrative of the journey to and from New South Wales : including a seven years' residence in that country" / by Joseph Lingard. [Chapel-en-le-Frith : 1846 printing?] )

      Quote from page 48: "

      I saw trees there, i should think one hundred and twenty yards high, and twenty-five feet through the ball; the natives [sic] call the trees stringy-bark or messmate."

      -these are now botanically called _Eucalyptus_globoidea_ and _Eucalyptus_obliqua_ or similar looking closely-related Eucalypts.



      Our local jungle main tree species is called _Acmena_ or _Syzygium_ _smithii_ (Lilly Pilly). closely related to the Jamun fruit.



      Some photos of good-sized-trees still alive, at least recently, in the same region as my nature farm

      -> http://www.eastgippsland.net.au/files/images/'Errinundra-Shining-Gum'-Card.jpg <http://www.eastgippsland.net.au/files/images/>

      -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:East_Gippsland_enormous_old_growth_01_Pengo.jpg

      -> http://www.greenlivingpedia.org/Image:Brown_Mountain_old_growth_tree_base.jpg

      -> http://www.green.net.au/quoll/forests/illegal.html



      And south in the island of Tasmania

      -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tasmania_logging_01_under_tallest_tree.jpg

      -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tasmania_logging_08_Mighty_tree.jpg





      Please don't let this message discourage you, at all! If any change in your choices i hope only that you may look appreciatively to the jungle there and restore it to its full glory, including it-must-have many foods for humans, naturally, and that you may also grow more healthy-foods-for-yourselves inside it & within it.





      As the jungle grows back taller, i perceive we all grow taller in our hearts!





      Biggest best wishes,



      Jason

      south-eastern Australia.



      _____

      From: Anand Saraf <anandsaraf@...>
      To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
      Cc: magicblack@...
      Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 7:53:13
      Subject: RE: [fukuoka_farming] Controlling weeds and effect of weeds



      Dear Mr. Vishu and Fukuoka group,

      I have been a member of the group for last 2-3 years and find it extremely
      motivating reading. I am a fairly new farmer having taken up farming about 2
      years ago. We have some land near Sakleshpur which had not been cultivated
      for last 30-40 years and had overgrown with jungle (kad). Also, there were
      no facilities available at site, such as electricity, water, quarters, etc.

      I am trying to grow coffee on this land. I am a keen believer in natural
      farming methods and considering that the land had not been cultivated at all
      for so many years and had no chemicals in it - had decided to follow
      natural/organic method for cultivating this land. It has been a struggle but
      am confident that I will not "convert" to chemical farming methods as
      ardently advised to me by all surrounding farmers.

      Since we have not razed the land and not cut down the trees, we are facing
      lot of trouble with very fast re-growth of weeds/jungle, despite continuous
      slashing, which quickly cover the coffee plants.

      I am planning to invest in a brush cutter for this reason. Mr Vishu - can
      you please share with me the details on the model number, location of the
      agriculture help center, etc.

      If you could spare a few minutes and share your phone number to my email
      address (anandsaraf@... <mailto:anandsaraf%40gmail.com> ), I would like to speak with you and take your
      advice. It would be great to get to know a fellow farmer from Sakleshpur!

      Warm regards

      Anand

      From: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com <mailto:fukuoka_farming%40yahoogroups.com>
      [mailto:fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com <mailto:fukuoka_farming%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Vishu Shetty
      Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 18:27
      To: Anant Joglekar
      Cc: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com <mailto:fukuoka_farming%40yahoogroups.com>
      Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Controlling weeds and effect of weeds

      Dear Anantji,

      I got it through Agriculture help center in Sakleshpur and for the subsidy,
      you need to provide khata and tax paid certificates. The process might
      differ in your state.

      Below is a link to the dealer in Bangalore who could provide contacts near
      to your place:

      http://www.ratnagiriimpex.com/aboutus.html

      Oleo Mac is an italian make which has the option of wire for grass and blade
      for bush. This was highly recommended by quite a few and is pretty robust
      and reliable.

      On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 4:02 PM, Anant Joglekar <apjoglekar@... <mailto:apjoglekar%40yahoo.co.in>
      <mailto:apjoglekar%40yahoo.co.in> >wrote:

      > Dear Vishnuji
      >
      > I am a certified organic farmer from Maharashtra State India.
      >
      > I am interested in buying these brush cutters for cutting grass in my 90
      > acres eucalyptus plantation.
      >
      > Will you please help me by providing the dealer contact details, company
      > website details and also the relevant details of the scheme under which
      you
      > claimed the subsidy.
      >
      > With warm regards
      >
      > Anant Joglekar
      >
      >
      > Sent with Best Compliments -
      > Call me at-
      > +919423089706 / +917232245567 / +917232288724
      > Post me at-
      > Anant Joglekar, Secretary and C.E.O; Organic Linkage On-line Multipurpose
      > Organisation, 9,Patrakar Nagar, Yavatmal Maharashtra State, India 445001
      > Meet me at-
      > yahoo- apjoglekar / skype- orgagro / trade manager- orgagro
      >
      > BE ORGANIC - BUY ORGANIC - LIVE
      > ORGANIC

      [snipped]





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