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Re: [fukuoka_farming] Water source

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  • Frank McAvinchey
    Firstly, I met a young man in Texas who invented a way to bore wells very inexpensively. You can watch his videos at www.howtodrillawell.com. . Secondly, you
    Message 1 of 15 , Nov 21, 2010
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      Firstly, I met a young man in Texas who invented a way to bore wells very
      inexpensively. You can watch his videos at www.howtodrillawell.com.
      .
      Secondly, you should be able to build a Sterling engine that could work on
      solar power or wood-heat. Check out www.sterlingengine.com. Another option
      would be a woodgas run engine. A burnable gas can be produced from
      partially burnt wood, or other biomass. Another option would be using Gobar
      gas to run a pump or an electrical generator.

      Good luck!

      Frank

      On Sun, Nov 21, 2010 at 4:13 AM, varaahan <offtown@...> wrote:

      >
      >
      > I am planning to have a borewell of 6 " dia. upto a depth of 50 ft. There
      > is no electric power available. Plz suggest any other method to draw water
      > for my farm.
      >
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Ramki Bondada
      It all depends on What is land suitable for? what are you planning to cultivate in the land and what would be the irrigation requirements. Diesel engine set
      Message 2 of 15 , Nov 21, 2010
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        It all depends on What is land suitable for? what are you planning to cultivate in the land and what would be the irrigation requirements.

        Diesel engine set will pump water from upto 30 feet which is proven. May assess this if it meets up your requirements.

        Ramki




        To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
        From: offtown@...
        Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2010 05:45:31 -0800
        Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Water source






        Both are beyond my reach. I may try rope pump but designing a guide box for
        the rope pump is not easy.

        Boovarahan S

        On Sun, Nov 21, 2010 at 5:02 AM, yajnesh shetty <yajnesh@...> wrote:

        >
        >
        > There are solar and wind powered pumps available. The other alternative
        > would be human or animal powered systems.
        > Regards,
        > Yaj.
        >
        > --- On Sun, 11/21/10, varaahan <offtown@... <offtown%40gmail.com>>
        > wrote:
        >
        > From: varaahan <offtown@... <offtown%40gmail.com>>
        > Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Water source
        > To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com <fukuoka_farming%40yahoogroups.com>
        > Date: Sunday, November 21, 2010, 2:43 PM
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > I am planning to have a borewell of 6 " dia. upto a depth of 50 ft. There
        > is no electric power available. Plz suggest any other method to draw water
        > for my farm.
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Raju Titus
        Dear friend, I was using 13 HP for irrigation and reduced it up to 1HP and using it only in Half ekad and trying to stop irrigation in farming.This is possible
        Message 3 of 15 , Nov 21, 2010
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          Dear friend,
          I was using 13 HP for irrigation and reduced it up to 1HP and using it only
          in Half ekad and trying to stop irrigation in farming.This is possible by
          fukuoka way of farming.Use of irrigation is unnatural and is not
          sustainable. Water is coming up in the form of vapour and condensed in the
          form of dues. Green cover helps in this natural way.
          Thanks
          Raju

          On Sun, Nov 21, 2010 at 2:43 PM, varaahan <offtown@...> wrote:

          >
          >
          > I am planning to have a borewell of 6 " dia. upto a depth of 50 ft. There
          > is no electric power available. Plz suggest any other method to draw water
          > for my farm.
          >
          >
          >



          --
          Raju Titus. Hoshangabad. 461001.India.
          +919179738049.
          http://picasaweb.google.com/rajuktitus<http://picasawebalbum.google.com/rajuktitus>
          fukuoka_farming yahoogroup


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Boovarahan Srinivasan
          Will it work on the hot climate of Tamilnadu ? Of course one can minimise the use of water by providing green cover and using the moist method of farming but
          Message 4 of 15 , Nov 22, 2010
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            Will it work on the hot climate of Tamilnadu ?
            Of course one can minimise the use of water by providing green cover and
            using the moist method of farming but still a minimum amount of water may be
            required.

            Boovarahan S

            On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 10:51 AM, Raju Titus <rajuktitus@...> wrote:

            > Dear friend,
            > I was using 13 HP for irrigation and reduced it up to 1HP and using it only
            > in Half ekad and trying to stop irrigation in farming.This is possible by
            > fukuoka way of farming.Use of irrigation is unnatural and is not
            > sustainable. Water is coming up in the form of vapour and condensed in the
            > form of dues. Green cover helps in this natural way.
            > Thanks
            > Raju
            >
            > On Sun, Nov 21, 2010 at 2:43 PM, varaahan <offtown@...> wrote:
            >
            > >
            > >
            > > I am planning to have a borewell of 6 " dia. upto a depth of 50 ft. There
            > > is no electric power available. Plz suggest any other method to draw
            > water
            > > for my farm.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            > --
            > Raju Titus. Hoshangabad. 461001.India.
            > +919179738049.
            > http://picasaweb.google.com/rajuktitus<
            > http://picasawebalbum.google.com/rajuktitus>
            > fukuoka_farming yahoogroup
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Boovarahan Srinivasan
            The land is clayey and people get just one crop a year between November to February ( rain / winter season). Afterwards the land is kept dry as water supply is
            Message 5 of 15 , Nov 22, 2010
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              The land is clayey and people get just one crop a year between November to
              February ( rain / winter season). Afterwards the land is kept dry as water
              supply is scarce. Installing a diesel pump may not be economically viable. I
              heard people drilling borewells upto 50 feet but water supply is not
              assured.

              Boovarahan S

              On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 10:40 AM, Ramki Bondada <bondada@...> wrote:

              >
              >
              >
              > It all depends on What is land suitable for? what are you planning to
              > cultivate in the land and what would be the irrigation requirements.
              >
              > Diesel engine set will pump water from upto 30 feet which is proven. May
              > assess this if it meets up your requirements.
              >
              > Ramki
              >
              >
              > To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com <fukuoka_farming%40yahoogroups.com>
              > From: offtown@... <offtown%40gmail.com>
              > Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2010 05:45:31 -0800
              > Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Water source
              >
              >
              > Both are beyond my reach. I may try rope pump but designing a guide box for
              > the rope pump is not easy.
              >
              > Boovarahan S
              >
              > On Sun, Nov 21, 2010 at 5:02 AM, yajnesh shetty <yajnesh@...<yajnesh%40yahoo.com>>
              > wrote:
              >
              > >
              > >
              > > There are solar and wind powered pumps available. The other alternative
              > > would be human or animal powered systems.
              > > Regards,
              > > Yaj.
              > >
              > > --- On Sun, 11/21/10, varaahan <offtown@... <offtown%40gmail.com><offtown%
              > 40gmail.com>>
              > > wrote:
              > >
              > > From: varaahan <offtown@... <offtown%40gmail.com> <offtown%
              > 40gmail.com>>
              >
              > > Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Water source
              > > To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com <fukuoka_farming%40yahoogroups.com><fukuoka_farming%
              > 40yahoogroups.com>
              >
              > > Date: Sunday, November 21, 2010, 2:43 PM
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > I am planning to have a borewell of 6 " dia. upto a depth of 50 ft. There
              > > is no electric power available. Plz suggest any other method to draw
              > water
              > > for my farm.
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Frank McAvinchey
              If your land is NOT flat, but hilly, you could instead create a series of little lakes, or ponds, where the water is captured high up and goes down hill
              Message 6 of 15 , Nov 22, 2010
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                If your land is NOT flat, but hilly, you could instead create a series of
                little lakes, or ponds, where the water is captured high up and goes down
                hill diagonally from pond to pond. There is a man in Austria who has become
                famous for his version of natural farming. He has done exactly that with
                the creation of ponds which hold water all year long, creating oases of life
                around which he plants his crops. He uses livestock to fertilize his
                farmland, and the results are stupendous, excellent. His name is Sepp
                Holzer, and here is a video you can watch of him and his farm in Austria -

                <object width="960" height="745"><param name="movie" value="
                http://www.youtube.com/v/LjbBoIDeBOQ?fs=1&hl=en_US&color1=0x234900&color2=0x4e9e00"></param><param
                name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess"
                value="always"></param><embed src="
                http://www.youtube.com/v/LjbBoIDeBOQ?fs=1&hl=en_US&color1=0x234900&color2=0x4e9e00"
                type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always"
                allowfullscreen="true" width="960" height="745"></embed></object>

                If you look for Sepp Holzer on YouTube, you'll find many videos talking
                about him. If you don't speak English, perhaps there is someone there who
                can translate for you???

                Best of everything to you!

                Frank

                On Sun, Nov 21, 2010 at 8:45 AM, Boovarahan Srinivasan <offtown@...>wrote:

                >
                >
                > Both are beyond my reach. I may try rope pump but designing a guide box for
                > the rope pump is not easy.
                >
                > Boovarahan S
                >
                >
                > On Sun, Nov 21, 2010 at 5:02 AM, yajnesh shetty <yajnesh@...<yajnesh%40yahoo.com>>
                > wrote:
                >
                > >
                > >
                > > There are solar and wind powered pumps available. The other alternative
                > > would be human or animal powered systems.
                > > Regards,
                > > Yaj.
                > >
                > > --- On Sun, 11/21/10, varaahan <offtown@... <offtown%40gmail.com><offtown%
                > 40gmail.com>>
                > > wrote:
                > >
                > > From: varaahan <offtown@... <offtown%40gmail.com> <offtown%
                > 40gmail.com>>
                >
                > > Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Water source
                > > To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com <fukuoka_farming%40yahoogroups.com><fukuoka_farming%
                > 40yahoogroups.com>
                >
                > > Date: Sunday, November 21, 2010, 2:43 PM
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > I am planning to have a borewell of 6 " dia. upto a depth of 50 ft. There
                > > is no electric power available. Plz suggest any other method to draw
                > water
                > > for my farm.
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Jason Stewart
                Mr. Sepp Holzer makes recognition, not as a natural farmer, nor a genuinely sustainable farmer, nor in the terms of late Mr. Fukuoka sensei (shizen nōhō
                Message 7 of 15 , Nov 22, 2010
                • 0 Attachment
                  Mr. Sepp Holzer makes recognition, not as a natural farmer, nor a genuinely
                  sustainable farmer, nor in the terms of late Mr. Fukuoka sensei (shizen nōhō
                  自然農法 nature farming ways) - not at all, to be clear for all readers. Please read
                  in the files of the group's page the article "The Sustainability Myth". His
                  works clearly do not accord with late Mr. Fukuoka sensei's clear principles,
                  documented explanations and motivations at all. If you need i can't quote late
                  Mr. Fukuoka sensei's words describing clearly what Sepp Holzer and similar
                  practises do wrong and do so very unsustainably.
                  Soil, hydrology and topography does not sum up to a resource designed by humans
                  at all, -conceit-, as if it's some sort of human painting or sculpture. Sepp
                  Holzer is wrong!


                  Best wishes to you Frank, and to all.

                  Jason
                  S.E. Oz



                  ________________________________
                  From: Frank McAvinchey <fmcavin@...>
                  To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2010 9:24:36
                  Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Water source

                  If your land is NOT flat, but hilly, you could instead create a series of
                  little lakes, or ponds, where the water is captured high up and goes down
                  hill diagonally from pond to pond. There is a man in Austria who has become
                  famous for his version of natural farming. He has done exactly that with
                  the creation of ponds which hold water all year long, creating oases of life
                  around which he plants his crops. He uses livestock to fertilize his
                  farmland, and the results are stupendous, excellent. His name is Sepp
                  Holzer, and here is a video you can watch of him and his farm in Austria -

                  <object width="960" height="745"><param name="movie" value="
                  http://www.youtube.com/v/LjbBoIDeBOQ?fs=1&hl=en_US&color1=0x234900&color2=0x4e9e00"></param><param

                  name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess"
                  value="always"></param><embed src="
                  http://www.youtube.com/v/LjbBoIDeBOQ?fs=1&hl=en_US&color1=0x234900&color2=0x4e9e00"

                  type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always"
                  allowfullscreen="true" width="960" height="745"></embed></object>

                  If you look for Sepp Holzer on YouTube, you'll find many videos talking
                  about him. If you don't speak English, perhaps there is someone there who
                  can translate for you???

                  Best of everything to you!

                  Frank

                  On Sun, Nov 21, 2010 at 8:45 AM, Boovarahan Srinivasan <offtown@...>wrote:

                  >
                  >
                  > Both are beyond my reach. I may try rope pump but designing a guide box for
                  > the rope pump is not easy.
                  >
                  > Boovarahan S
                  >
                  >
                  > On Sun, Nov 21, 2010 at 5:02 AM, yajnesh shetty
                  ><yajnesh@...<yajnesh%40yahoo.com>>
                  > wrote:
                  >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > There are solar and wind powered pumps available. The other alternative
                  > > would be human or animal powered systems.
                  > > Regards,
                  > > Yaj.
                  > >
                  > > --- On Sun, 11/21/10, varaahan <offtown@...
                  ><offtown%40gmail.com><offtown%
                  > 40gmail.com>>
                  > > wrote:
                  > >
                  > > From: varaahan <offtown@... <offtown%40gmail.com> <offtown%
                  > 40gmail.com>>
                  >
                  > > Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Water source
                  > > To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                  ><fukuoka_farming%40yahoogroups.com><fukuoka_farming%
                  > 40yahoogroups.com>
                  >
                  > > Date: Sunday, November 21, 2010, 2:43 PM
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > I am planning to have a borewell of 6 " dia. upto a depth of 50 ft. There
                  > > is no electric power available. Plz suggest any other method to draw
                  > water
                  > > for my farm.
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                  ------------------------------------

                  Yahoo! Groups Links





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Jason Stewart
                  Just what i wrote! And further does saying carefully spelled and worded: * no thing *, clarify any thing for you! ________________________________ From:
                  Message 8 of 15 , Nov 22, 2010
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Just what i wrote!
                    And further does saying carefully spelled and worded: * 'no thing' *, clarify
                    any thing for you!



                    ________________________________
                    From: Frank McAvinchey <fmcavin@...>
                    To: Jason Stewart <macropneuma@...>
                    Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2010 16:31:59
                    Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Water source

                    So what do you REALLY think? :}

                    Frank


                    On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 7:19 PM, Jason Stewart <macropneuma@...> wrote:

                    Mr. Sepp Holzer makes recognition, not as a natural farmer, nor a genuinely
                    sustainable farmer, nor in the terms of late Mr. Fukuoka sensei (shizen nōhō
                    自然農法 nature farming ways) - not at all, to be clear for all readers. Please read
                    in the files of the group's page the article "The Sustainability Myth". His
                    works clearly do not accord with late Mr. Fukuoka sensei's clear principles,
                    documented explanations and motivations at all. If you need i can't quote late
                    Mr. Fukuoka sensei's words describing clearly what Sepp Holzer and similar
                    practises do wrong and do so very unsustainably.
                    >Soil, hydrology and topography does not sum up to a resource designed by humans
                    >at all, -conceit-, as if it's some sort of human painting or sculpture. Sepp
                    >Holzer is wrong!
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >Best wishes to you Frank, and to all.
                    >
                    >
                    >Jason
                    >S.E. Oz
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    ________________________________
                    From: Frank McAvinchey <fmcavin@...>
                    >
                    >To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                    >Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2010 9:24:36
                    >
                    >Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Water source
                    >
                    >
                    >If your land is NOT flat, but hilly, you could instead create a series of
                    >little lakes, or ponds, where the water is captured high up and goes down
                    >hill diagonally from pond to pond. There is a man in Austria who has become
                    >famous for his version of natural farming. He has done exactly that with
                    >the creation of ponds which hold water all year long, creating oases of life
                    >around which he plants his crops. He uses livestock to fertilize his
                    >farmland, and the results are stupendous, excellent. His name is Sepp
                    >Holzer, and here is a video you can watch of him and his farm in Austria -
                    >
                    ><object width="960" height="745"><param name="movie" value="
                    >http://www.youtube.com/v/LjbBoIDeBOQ?fs=1&hl=en_US&color1=0x234900&color2=0x4e9e00"></param><param
                    >
                    >
                    >name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess"
                    >value="always"></param><embed src="
                    >http://www.youtube.com/v/LjbBoIDeBOQ?fs=1&hl=en_US&color1=0x234900&color2=0x4e9e00"
                    >
                    >
                    >type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always"
                    >allowfullscreen="true" width="960" height="745"></embed></object>
                    >
                    >If you look for Sepp Holzer on YouTube, you'll find many videos talking
                    >about him. If you don't speak English, perhaps there is someone there who
                    >can translate for you???
                    >
                    >Best of everything to you!
                    >
                    >Frank
                    >
                    >On Sun, Nov 21, 2010 at 8:45 AM, Boovarahan Srinivasan
                    <offtown@...>wrote:
                    >
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> Both are beyond my reach. I may try rope pump but designing a guide box for
                    >> the rope pump is not easy.
                    >>
                    >> Boovarahan S
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> On Sun, Nov 21, 2010 at 5:02 AM, yajnesh shetty
                    >><yajnesh@...<yajnesh%40yahoo.com>>
                    >
                    >> wrote:
                    >>
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> > There are solar and wind powered pumps available. The other alternative
                    >> > would be human or animal powered systems.
                    >> > Regards,
                    >> > Yaj.
                    >> >
                    >> > --- On Sun, 11/21/10, varaahan <offtown@...
                    >><offtown%40gmail.com><offtown%
                    >> 40gmail.com>>
                    >> > wrote:
                    >> >
                    >> > From: varaahan <offtown@... <offtown%40gmail.com> <offtown%
                    >
                    >> 40gmail.com>>
                    >>
                    >> > Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Water source
                    >> > To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                    >><fukuoka_farming%40yahoogroups.com><fukuoka_farming%
                    >
                    >> 40yahoogroups.com>
                    >>
                    >> > Date: Sunday, November 21, 2010, 2:43 PM
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> > I am planning to have a borewell of 6 " dia. upto a depth of 50 ft. There
                    >> > is no electric power available. Plz suggest any other method to draw
                    >> water
                    >> > for my farm.
                    >> >
                    >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >>
                    >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                    >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >------------------------------------
                    >
                    >Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >




                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Vargan
                    ... Brad Lancaster from Arizona develops the method of rainwater harvesting based on the experience of a farmer from Zimbabwe. He has nice web-site with many
                    Message 9 of 15 , Nov 23, 2010
                    • 0 Attachment
                      --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "varaahan" <offtown@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I am planning to have a borewell of 6 " dia. upto a depth of 50 ft. There is no electric power available. Plz suggest any other method to draw water for my farm.
                      >

                      Brad Lancaster from Arizona develops the method of rainwater harvesting based on the experience of a farmer from Zimbabwe. He has nice web-site with many resources - http://www.harvestingrainwater.com/ "Rainwater Harvesting for Drylands and Beyond".
                      Regards,
                      Vargan,
                      Rusia.
                    • seaseal
                      Bicycle-powered pumps are also improving. These do require human energy but have become very efficient. Good luck with your farm. Cecile seaseal@got.net Coming
                      Message 10 of 15 , Nov 23, 2010
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Bicycle-powered pumps are also improving. These do require human
                        energy but have become very efficient. Good luck with your farm.

                        Cecile

                        seaseal@...

                        Coming together is a beginning,
                        staying together is progress, and
                        working together is success.



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Jason Stewart
                        Mr. Sepp Holzer wrong. He was violently fighting his personally-made-up-war against Mother-nature (called Ecocide). Pretending to grow more than he killed when
                        Message 11 of 15 , Nov 23, 2010
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Mr. Sepp Holzer wrong. He was violently fighting his personally-made-up-war
                          against Mother-nature (called Ecocide). Pretending to grow more than he killed
                          when in fact he killed more than what grew itself under his violence to the
                          land, Mother Nature. According to some Permacult-leading-activists themselves,
                          even much worse destruction of Mother-nature than permacult's-own-destroying of
                          Mother-nature, under their made-up-beliefs of Mother-Nature-domination.
                          He makes his own recognition, not as a nature/natural farmer at all, nor a
                          genuinely sustainable farmer at all, nor in the terms of late Mr. Fukuoka
                          sensei's nature farming ways (shizen nōhō 自然農法) at all -- not at all, to be
                          clear, for all readers.
                          Please read in the files of the group's page the article "The Sustainability
                          Myth".
                          His works clearly do not accord with late Mr. Fukuoka sensei's clear principles,
                          documented explanations and motivations, at all.
                          If you need i can quote directly from late Mr. Fukuoka sensei's words describing
                          clearly what Sepp Holzer and similar practises do wrong, and do so very
                          unsustainable.

                          Soil, hydrology and topography does not sum up to a resource designed by humans
                          at all, -conceit-, as if it's some sort of human painting or sculpture. Sepp
                          Holzer is wrong!

                          Please read here in this group in 2001, from Georg who describes himself as
                          "founding chairman of the national [Austrian] pc association", writing about his
                          & Austria's attention towards the subject of, Sepp Holzer, via Jamie:
                          From:
                          -> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fukuoka_farming/message/36
                          "
                          ...but have appended a
                          response by georg parlow on the pc list that casts some light on Sepp
                          Holzer

                          souscayrous



                          ...as i am one of the main pc activists here in austria (founding chairman of
                          the national pc association), i am double-minded about sepp holzer. i love it
                          that he is able to get all the media exposure and the term "permaculture"
                          receives part of the attention. however, i am wary about the fact, that in my
                          opinion it is not permaculture what he is doing, and i am afraid that sooner or
                          later this will show and discredit permaculture.

                          sepp holzer is a genius in his way. he really knows his turf (in the litteral
                          sense of the meaning), he successfully threw out everything he learned about
                          agriculture (also no book about organic farming, permaculture etc. has ever
                          spoiled his approach until 1997, when eva vesovnik visited his farm and said
                          "but this is permaculture you are doing!" - he might heave read something since,
                          mainly so he knows what words to use for marketing reasons), he goes and boldly
                          tries every idea he has, and he is a marketing genius.

                          sepps strongest assets (besides his marketing skills) are the intimate knowledge
                          of the farm he grew up on, to pay attention to his microclimates, warm air
                          currents and all sorts of things he observes and notices there, to come up with
                          the most creative explanations for his observances, and to go ahead with action
                          based on his observances and explanations.

                          all this could make him a great permaculturist. now let me explain why i think
                          it is not permaculture, what he is doing there:

                          care for the earth? honestly i am not sure about that. the natural climax
                          vegetation of the region is almost pure pine. sepp digs in 10 meter high "bad
                          pine monoculture" with the bulldozer, turns them into huge "raised beds", plants
                          tiny fruit trees on them, and sows them with jerusalem artichokes, radishes and
                          (voluntary) stinging nettle. naturally the herbs go rampant on the exessive
                          nutrients and the radishes are fist-big, which is "a prove for the superiority
                          of permaculture".

                          2 or 3 years ago he had a landslide above his farmhouse, and 1 foot of mud in
                          all rooms. the landslide was caused by a broken dam of his design and doing -
                          there isnt any design, really, and never was. there is only lots of ideas
                          applied - some great idaes, some meaningless, some stupid ones - and
                          unfortunately sepp holzer isnt into small experiments - he seems to like big
                          things and knows how to operate his bulldozer.

                          care for the people? sharing of the surplus? thumbs down. besides his close
                          family, the only person he cares for seems to be his lawyer - indirectly. nearly
                          everyone i have heard of who has had any closer dealings with him has been sued
                          or at least threatened with a suit (if he hears about my opinion about him i
                          will certainly get sued). in wintertime he is said to cherish the old austrian
                          farmers-tradition of going to court with his neighbours. i have not heard so far
                          of him ever moving an eyelash without asking money for it. while i know of
                          functioning pc systems that really give away wheelbarrows of food for free (e.g.
                          peter bird on W.A.), if sepp says "people come to pick my cherries" you can be
                          sure that they pay for it - big time. if permaculture is about subsistance life,
                          and subsistance grows on local and regional cooperation, sepp holzer is as far
                          from it as you can get.

                          please note that this is my private opinion as an individual, and not the
                          position of the austrian permaculture association.

                          kind regards
                          georg
                          "

                          Everyone, lose the violence, and the mind-games war -gammon- trying blame the
                          violence on other people.


                          Really best wishes to you Frank, and to all.

                          Jason
                          S.E. Oz



                          ________________________________
                          From: Frank McAvinchey <fmcavin@...>
                          To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2010 9:24:36
                          Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Water source

                          If your land is NOT flat, but hilly, you could instead create a series of
                          little lakes, or ponds, where the water is captured high up and goes down
                          hill diagonally from pond to pond. There is a man in Austria who has become
                          famous for his version of natural farming. He has done exactly that with
                          the creation of ponds which hold water all year long, creating oases of life
                          around which he plants his crops. He uses livestock to fertilize his
                          farmland, and the results are stupendous, excellent. His name is Sepp
                          Holzer, and here is a video you can watch of him and his farm in Austria -



                          [cut]


                          Best of everything to you!

                          Frank



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