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Re: [fukuoka_farming] Read this book?

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  • Jason Stewart
    This message s text character encoding is Unicode UTF-8:. Hui-lian Xu Senior Researcher and Deputy Director, Agricultural Experiment Station International
    Message 1 of 14 , Sep 15, 2010
    • 0 Attachment
      This message's text character encoding is Unicode UTF-8:.

      "
      Hui-lian Xu
      Senior Researcher and Deputy Director, Agricultural Experiment Station
      International Nature Farming Research Center, Hata, Nagano 390- 1401, Japan
      "

      Previously I read somewhere, which i can't find now -let us know briefly please
      if you have found this, or correct me if i'm wrong-, that Hui-lian Xu has worked
      in this Agricultural Experiment Station, in Nagano Japan, for seven years?

      Thanks, i suppose, Brian Covert for posting this free-book link. Thanks also so
      very much for the photos previously Brian; I don't know where to start saying
      the magnitude of how grateful i am for the photos of *practice* continuining in
      Japan.
      Secretly-for-irony, for instance for not spoon feeding readers about how
      to simply google search, and for instance also for not precluding the Indian
      publisher from making some revenue from us members of the 'wealthy world', i
      kept that (secret), previously when i posted here about the book at:
      -> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fukuoka_farming/message/10943


      From:
      -> http://www.infrc.or.jp/english/INFRC_Web_2_draft/Organization.html

      "
      International Nature Farming Research Center (INFRC)

      ________________________________

      >>>Organization
      ________________________________

      >>>

      Establishment
      The International Nature Farming Research Center was established with the
      objectives of enhancing economic stability of farmers and producing nutritious
      and good quality food for human consumption, through research and extension
      programs of agricultural techniques based on ecological principles that preserve
      the natural environment. These objectives follow the philosophies of Mokichi
      Okada, the founder of Nature Farming, which state "Respect Nature and Conform to
      Its Laws" and "Allow the Living Soil to Exhibit Its Great Potential Abilities."

      Nature Farming has been practiced and handed down over generations by supporters
      of Okada's philosophy even during the times when it was thought that agriculture
      cannot progress without using chemical fertilizers and pesticides. Today we find
      attention being focused on the need for food safety and environmental
      protection. Therefore Nature Farming has been highly appraised for its role in
      these times. This is confirmed by the fact that the Center has been approved as
      a foundation by the Ministry of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries, and remains
      active in developing and spreading Nature Farming as an alternative agricultural
      option.



      History

      1935:
      Mokichi Okada advocated the principles of his farming method.

      1982:
      The International Nature Farming Development Center was established.

      1985:
      The International Nature Farming Research Center was established as a
      foundation.

      2000:
      The Center was approved as a registered certification organization for the JAS
      Organic Certification Program.
      "


      Okada-Mokichi-following nature farming 自然農法 - see also related:
      http://www.shumei.org/
      http://www.shumei-na.org/
      http://www.shumeicrestone.org/

      There's Okada-Mokichi-following nature farming 自然農法 here in Australia. That farm
      here calls it, in English, "pure farming" or sometimes calls it, in English,
      "macrobiotic farming".

      Some previous posts about Okada Mokichi nature farming, and outgrowths from it
      of Shumei, see:
      -> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fukuoka_farming/message/3526
      -> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fukuoka_farming/message/3532
      -> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fukuoka_farming/message/10144

      Once again in some posts here in this group Bob Monie thinks that the phrase
      "nature farming" is used to distinguish it from Fukuoka Masanobu sensei's
      "natural farming", but this is wrong. I'm speaking pedantically (&
      scientifically) when i say: misunderstanding losses in translation from the
      Japanese by the English phrase "natural farming"; Given that the Japanese is the
      same phrase shizen nōhō 自然農法, in both Fukuoka Masanobu sensei's and Okada
      Mokichi's (Japanese) writings. Bob Monie made that up evidently. Reading the
      Japanese dictionary definitions of shizen 自然 help to understand what shizen
      means, guessing doesn't, positing a guess of one of the many meanings of the
      English words nature or natural doesn't. Of the many widely used meanings of the
      English word nature or natural, perhaps pedantically (& scientifically on
      words) the nearest English meaning is:
      -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nature_(innate)
      In quoting, incorrectly Bob wrote:
      "The Shumei "natural agriculture" is often called "nature farming" to
      distinguish it from Fukuoka's "natural" farming."


      Cheers & respect (genuine) to Bob, and to all, all life,

      Jason Stewart
      south eastern Oz.


      ________________________________
      From: Ohkubo-Covert <inochi4@...>
      To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Thu, 16 September, 2010 7:26:10 AM
      Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Read this book?



      Brian,

      Thanks for the info on the book "Nature Farming in Japan" by the
      Chinese author.

      For fellow list members here who haven't seen it, we can access this
      same book online -- for free -- in its entirety at this link:

      > http://www.trnres.com/ebook/uploads/rsxu.pdf


      Brian Covert
      Hyogo, Japan


      On 2010/09/14, at 21:06, Brian Pellerin wrote:

      >
      > AUTHOR: Xu, Hui-lian
      > TITLE: NATURE FARMING IN JAPAN
      > DATE: 2006
      > ISBN: 9788130801193
      >
      > I just obtained a copy from my college. Looks very interesting with
      > all the references to Fukuoka and his techniques!
      >
      > Brian





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Jason Stewart
      Dear all sorry for the double post, this 2nd post below is the better wordings. My Yahoo email has been a pain in the neck today. It hasn t been sending emails
      Message 2 of 14 , Sep 15, 2010
      • 0 Attachment
        Dear all sorry for the double post,
        this 2nd post below is the better wordings.
        My Yahoo email has been a pain in the neck today.
        It hasn't been sending emails at all according to the messages telling me on the
        screen-interface of Yahoo.
        So i stopped trying to send this message below for a while, after trying to send
        about 20 times or more.
        Instead i re-read the message while i was waiting, hoping my Yahoo would right
        itself!;
        and so i wrote some more clarifying words in this my (2nd) post previous message
        below, than in the previous (1st) one before that.
        The previous one does seem to have been successfully sent in one of those failed
        20+ attempts, it's just that the interface didn't show that the sending process
        had completed at all, only partially successfull, not successfull enough to tell
        me so. In fact, 20+ times it said it failed to send. Anyway bloody Yahoo email!
        I get tired of the flaky-ness of the track record of Yahoo in my use over the
        last 10 years (i'm an IT professional too, working in GIS, on & off).


        This message's text character encoding is Unicode UTF-8:.


        Yahoo also ruined the Wikipedia "Nature_(innate)" URL in the previous message
        below too.
        It seems there's no way to force Yahoo to recognise this whole string as a URL,
        rather it stops encoding it as a URL when it reaches the first bracket
        (parenthesis).
        Anyway trying again, here, a few different ways for an experiment,
        here it is again 3 times:
        1) -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nature_(innate)
        2) Nature (innate) (an html "a href" link, which should *not* work.)
        -3) > en.wikipedia.org / wiki / Nature_(innate)

        Perhaps i have to use what is technically called an escape character on the
        brackets to get it to recognise it as a URL, eg. a slash before each bracket,
        perhaps.

        If anyone else, Shashi?? perhaps, feels keen to transition the Yahoo
        Fukuoka_Farming group to a technologically better group,
        eg. a google group,
        or a facebook group,
        or to upgrade the settings of this Yahoo group to html,
        or something even better than those ideas,
        please come forward with the ideas.
        I also discussed more some of these, flaws & issues, in a previous post here:
        -> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fukuoka_farming/message/3975

        Anyway, for me that's enough whinging about Yahoo's flaws.


        On shizen 自然 in Japanese, and on Nature (English) or natural,
        here is one of my Japanese-English dictionaries pages quoted:
        "
        しぜん【自然】
        1 〔天然の姿〕nature (▼冠詞をつけない)
        派生語 自然 (のまま) の|natural
        自然を友とする|take nature for a friend / [make a friend of / be close to] nature
        自然に親しむ|commune [converse] with nature
        自然の懐に抱かれて休息した|⦅文語⦆ We rested in the bosom of nature.
        渓谷のすばらしい自然の景観を楽しんだ|We enjoyed the wonderful natural view of the ravine.
        自然の威力に打たれた|I was struck by the power of nature.
        小さな虫の世界にも自然の営みがある|Even in the world of tiny insects, the working of nature goes
        on.
        子孫のために美しい自然を保護してゆかねばならない|We must preserve this beautiful natural scenery for
        posterity.
        このあたりにはまだ自然が残っている|The natural environment has been preserved in this area.
        2 〔ありのまま,無理がない様子〕
        君の話し方は自然だ|Your way of speaking is very natural.
        彼の立ち居振る舞いは自然でない|His behavior is unnatural [affected].
        気取らず自然に話す|speak unaffectedly
        自然に振る舞う|behave naturally
        3 〔当然〕
        彼女が母を慕うのは自然だ|It is only natural that she should be deeply attached to her
        mother.
        無口だから自然と友人も少ない|He is so reserved that naturally he has few friends.
        4 〔ひとりでそうなる様子〕
        派生語 自然の|〔自然発生的,自発的〕spontaneous; 〔自動的,反射的〕automatic
        派生語 自然に|spontaneously; automatically
        自然にわく思想|a spontaneous thought
        我々の呼吸は自然になされるものだ|Our breathing is automatic [autonomic].
        傷は自然になおった|The wound healed by itself.
        自然の成り行きに任せる|leave ⦅a matter⦆ to take its own course / let nature take its course
        自然の結果として|as a natural result
        あの人の前に出ると自然と礼儀正しくなる|When I am in his presence, my
        manners automatically [naturally] improve.
        それを聞いて自然とほほが緩んだ|When I heard it, I couldn't help smiling.
        あとで自然と分かることだ|Time will tell.
        最年長者なので自然とまとめ役になった|Because I was the oldest, I automatically became the
        coordinator.
        合成語
        自然界|nature; the natural world
        自然改造|the remodeling [reshaping] of nature
        自然科学|natural science
        自然観|an outlook on nature; a view of nature
        自然換気|natural ventilation
        自然環境保全地域|a nature conservation area
        自然環境保全法|the Nature Conservation Law
        自然休会|a spontaneous recess
        自然現象|a natural phenomenon ⦅複-na⦆
        自然公園|a nature park
        自然災害|a natural disaster
        自然死|a natural death
        ・ 自然死する|die a natural death; die naturally
        自然主義|〔文学,哲学で〕naturalism
        ・ 自然主義的|naturalistic
        自然主義者|a naturalist
        自然食品|natural food(s)
        自然人|「a natural [an unspoiled] person
        自然数|〔数学で,正の整数〕a natural number
        自然崇拝|nature worship
        自然崇拝者|a nature worshiper
        自然生態系|a natural ecosystem
        自然葬|natural burial
        自然増加|〔法律で,財産の〕accretion
        人口の自然増加率|the rate of natural population increase
        自然増収|〔経済で〕an automatic increase in revenue
        自然体|a natural [relaxed] posture
        自然体で立つ[構える]|stand naturally
        自然対数|〔数学で〕a natural [Napierian] logarithm
        自然淘汰(とうた)|natural selection
        弱いものは自然淘汰されてしまう|The weak [die out / are weeded out] through the process
        of natural selection.
        自然治癒|(a) spontaneous cure
        ・ 自然治癒する|「be cured [heal] spontaneously
        自然地理学|physical geography
        自然農法|chemical-free [organic] farming
        自然発火|spontaneous combustion
        自然発生|spontaneous generation; 〔生物で〕autogenesis
        山火事の自然発生|the spontaneous outbreak of a fire in the mountains
        この会は自然発生的にできたものだ|This society came into being spontaneously.
        自然美|natural beauty
        自然描写|(a) description of nature
        自然法|natural law; jus naturale
        自然法則|natural laws; the law of nature
        自然保護|the protection [conservation, preservation] of nature
        自然保護運動|a conservation movement
        自然保護団体|a conservation group
        自然遊歩道|a nature trail
        自然療法|a nature cure
        自然力|the force of nature; natural agency; elemental forces
        ⇒コラム「環境公害」
        "

        BTW most properly, pedantically, also,:
        natural in Japanese: shizen no 自然 の, shown above at the top.
        rather, nature in Japanese simply: shizen 自然.
        Of course "nature farming" or popularly called "natural farming" in Japanese
        simply: shizen nōhō 自然農法 , as i've said before many times here.

        This message with much Japanese text will also experimentally test Yahoo more.


        Enjoy i hope, and sorry for the previous double post,

        Jason Stewart
        south eastern Oz (Oz = slang for Australia)


        ________________________________
        From: Jason Stewart <macropneuma@...>
        To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com; Brian Ohkubo-Covert <inochi4@...>
        Sent: Thu, 16 September, 2010 1:12:15 PM
        Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Read this book?


        This message's text character encoding is Unicode UTF-8:.

        "
        Hui-lian Xu
        Senior Researcher and Deputy Director, Agricultural Experiment Station
        International Nature Farming Research Center, Hata, Nagano 390- 1401, Japan
        "

        Previously I read somewhere, which i can't find now -let us know briefly please
        if you have found this, or correct me if i'm wrong-, that Hui-lian Xu has worked

        in this Agricultural Experiment Station, in Nagano Japan, for seven years?

        Thanks, i suppose, Brian Covert for posting this free-book link. Thanks also so
        very much for the photos previously Brian; I don't know where to start saying
        the magnitude of how grateful i am for the photos of *practice* continuining in
        Japan.
        Secretly-for-irony, for instance for not spoon feeding readers about how
        to simply google search, and for instance also for not precluding the Indian
        publisher from making some revenue from us members of the 'wealthy world', i
        kept that (secret), previously when i posted here about the book at:
        -> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fukuoka_farming/message/10943

        From:
        -> http://www.infrc.or.jp/english/INFRC_Web_2_draft/Organization.html

        "
        International Nature Farming Research Center (INFRC)

        ________________________________

        >>>Organization
        ________________________________

        >>>

        Establishment
        The International Nature Farming Research Center was established with the
        objectives of enhancing economic stability of farmers and producing nutritious
        and good quality food for human consumption, through research and extension
        programs of agricultural techniques based on ecological principles that preserve

        the natural environment. These objectives follow the philosophies of Mokichi
        Okada, the founder of Nature Farming, which state "Respect Nature and Conform to

        Its Laws" and "Allow the Living Soil to Exhibit Its Great Potential Abilities."

        Nature Farming has been practiced and handed down over generations by supporters

        of Okada's philosophy even during the times when it was thought that agriculture

        cannot progress without using chemical fertilizers and pesticides. Today we find

        attention being focused on the need for food safety and environmental
        protection. Therefore Nature Farming has been highly appraised for its role in
        these times. This is confirmed by the fact that the Center has been approved as
        a foundation by the Ministry of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries, and remains

        active in developing and spreading Nature Farming as an alternative agricultural

        option.

        History

        1935:
        Mokichi Okada advocated the principles of his farming method.

        1982:
        The International Nature Farming Development Center was established.

        1985:
        The International Nature Farming Research Center was established as a
        foundation.

        2000:
        The Center was approved as a registered certification organization for the JAS
        Organic Certification Program.
        "

        Okada-Mokichi-following nature farming 自然農法 - see also related:
        http://www.shumei.org/
        http://www.shumei-na.org/
        http://www.shumeicrestone.org/

        There's Okada-Mokichi-following nature farming 自然農法 here in Australia. That farm

        here calls it, in English, "pure farming" or sometimes calls it, in English,
        "macrobiotic farming".

        Some previous posts about Okada Mokichi nature farming, and outgrowths from it
        of Shumei, see:
        -> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fukuoka_farming/message/3526
        -> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fukuoka_farming/message/3532
        -> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fukuoka_farming/message/10144

        Once again in some posts here in this group Bob Monie thinks that the phrase
        "nature farming" is used to distinguish it from Fukuoka Masanobu sensei's
        "natural farming", but this is wrong. I'm speaking pedantically (&
        scientifically) when i say: misunderstanding losses in translation from the
        Japanese by the English phrase "natural farming"; Given that the Japanese is the

        same phrase shizen nōhō 自然農法, in both Fukuoka Masanobu sensei's and Okada
        Mokichi's (Japanese) writings. Bob Monie made that up evidently. Reading the
        Japanese dictionary definitions of shizen 自然 help to understand what shizen
        means, guessing doesn't, positing a guess of one of the many meanings of the
        English words nature or natural doesn't. Of the many widely used meanings of the

        English word nature or natural, perhaps pedantically (& scientifically on
        words) the nearest English meaning is:
        -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nature_(innate)
        In quoting, incorrectly Bob wrote:
        "The Shumei "natural agriculture" is often called "nature farming" to
        distinguish it from Fukuoka's "natural" farming."

        Cheers & respect (genuine) to Bob, and to all, all life,

        Jason Stewart
        south eastern Oz.

        ________________________________
        From: Ohkubo-Covert <inochi4@...>
        To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Thu, 16 September, 2010 7:26:10 AM
        Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Read this book?

        Brian,

        Thanks for the info on the book "Nature Farming in Japan" by the
        Chinese author.

        For fellow list members here who haven't seen it, we can access this
        same book online -- for free -- in its entirety at this link:

        > http://www.trnres.com/ebook/uploads/rsxu.pdf

        Brian Covert
        Hyogo, Japan

        On 2010/09/14, at 21:06, Brian Pellerin wrote:

        >
        > AUTHOR: Xu, Hui-lian
        > TITLE: NATURE FARMING IN JAPAN
        > DATE: 2006
        > ISBN: 9788130801193
        >
        > I just obtained a copy from my college. Looks very interesting with
        > all the references to Fukuoka and his techniques!
        >
        > Brian




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • bessonnier sébastien
        Hello, I am starting natural farming and organic farming experimentation in Mayotte. I arrive in this magical island two months ago to work in a public french
        Message 3 of 14 , Sep 15, 2010
        • 0 Attachment
          Hello,

          I am starting natural farming and organic farming experimentation in Mayotte.
          I arrive in this magical island two months ago to work in a public french
          research institution and after a little time of observation, adaptation,
          speaking, listening and understanding, I succeed to convince the local coworkers
          of our station to stop using chemicals.
          So for the moment, I have found natural insecticide plant growing there
          (tephrosia and derris).
          I found local and traditional varieties of rice (currently disappearing because
          of thai rice importation)
          We have also local varities of cassava, banana and traditional cucurbittae
          etc...
          So, because we are 6 persons working on the field there, I am so happy to have
          tools, man hand to make almost what I have in mind...

          I am totally interesting bu Fukuoka senseï work as soon as I discover it in
          Auroville (India) and visited his farm in Shikoku (but he was died the year
          before the same day of my birthday), the ruins of his little house and camp for
          his student on the hill and I also on his grave... a wondeful trip...

          All of this to say that I started also the clay bullet seeds and direct
          implantation of vegetable on grass. I study also grass and green cover (we have
          purpueria also know as kudzu in japan).

          So if you don't mind I will try to give some news and picture of my
          experimentation and you are free of any consideration, critical, advices or
          other speak as you want on this subject of natural farming in mayotte

          Thanks to share,

          Sébastien, french plant lover





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Raju Titus
          Dear firend, There is a lot of diffrence in Nature farming and Natural farming (Fukuoka way of farming). Dr Hawards organic way of farming is also differ
          Message 4 of 14 , Sep 16, 2010
          • 0 Attachment
            Dear firend,
            There is a lot of diffrence in" Nature farming" and Natural farming (Fukuoka
            way of farming). Dr Hawards' organic way of farming is also differ from
            fukuoka farming. Meaning of Organic as per my point of view is Live and
            tilling is killing. Soil is a group of many microbs is become dead due to
            tilling.
            Thanks for the information and book.
            Raju

            On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 8:42 AM, Jason Stewart <macropneuma@...>wrote:

            >
            >
            > This message's text character encoding is Unicode UTF-8:.
            >
            > "
            > Hui-lian Xu
            > Senior Researcher and Deputy Director, Agricultural Experiment Station
            > International Nature Farming Research Center, Hata, Nagano 390- 1401, Japan
            >
            > "
            >
            > Previously I read somewhere, which i can't find now -let us know briefly
            > please
            > if you have found this, or correct me if i'm wrong-, that Hui-lian Xu has
            > worked
            > in this Agricultural Experiment Station, in Nagano Japan, for seven years?
            >
            > Thanks, i suppose, Brian Covert for posting this free-book link. Thanks
            > also so
            > very much for the photos previously Brian; I don't know where to start
            > saying
            > the magnitude of how grateful i am for the photos of *practice*
            > continuining in
            > Japan.
            > Secretly-for-irony, for instance for not spoon feeding readers about how
            > to simply google search, and for instance also for not precluding the
            > Indian
            > publisher from making some revenue from us members of the 'wealthy world',
            > i
            > kept that (secret), previously when i posted here about the book at:
            > -> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fukuoka_farming/message/10943
            >
            > From:
            > -> http://www.infrc.or.jp/english/INFRC_Web_2_draft/Organization.html
            >
            > "
            > International Nature Farming Research Center (INFRC)
            >
            > ________________________________
            >
            > >>>Organization
            > ________________________________
            >
            > >>>
            >
            > Establishment
            > The International Nature Farming Research Center was established with the
            > objectives of enhancing economic stability of farmers and producing
            > nutritious
            > and good quality food for human consumption, through research and extension
            >
            > programs of agricultural techniques based on ecological principles that
            > preserve
            > the natural environment. These objectives follow the philosophies of
            > Mokichi
            > Okada, the founder of Nature Farming, which state "Respect Nature and
            > Conform to
            > Its Laws" and "Allow the Living Soil to Exhibit Its Great Potential
            > Abilities."
            >
            > Nature Farming has been practiced and handed down over generations by
            > supporters
            > of Okada's philosophy even during the times when it was thought that
            > agriculture
            > cannot progress without using chemical fertilizers and pesticides. Today we
            > find
            > attention being focused on the need for food safety and environmental
            > protection. Therefore Nature Farming has been highly appraised for its role
            > in
            > these times. This is confirmed by the fact that the Center has been
            > approved as
            > a foundation by the Ministry of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries, and
            > remains
            > active in developing and spreading Nature Farming as an alternative
            > agricultural
            > option.
            >
            > History
            >
            > 1935:
            > Mokichi Okada advocated the principles of his farming method.
            >
            > 1982:
            > The International Nature Farming Development Center was established.
            >
            > 1985:
            > The International Nature Farming Research Center was established as a
            > foundation.
            >
            > 2000:
            > The Center was approved as a registered certification organization for the
            > JAS
            > Organic Certification Program.
            > "
            >
            > Okada-Mokichi-following nature farming 自然農法 - see also related:
            > http://www.shumei.org/
            > http://www.shumei-na.org/
            > http://www.shumeicrestone.org/
            >
            > There's Okada-Mokichi-following nature farming 自然農法 here in Australia. That
            > farm
            > here calls it, in English, "pure farming" or sometimes calls it, in
            > English,
            > "macrobiotic farming".
            >
            > Some previous posts about Okada Mokichi nature farming, and outgrowths from
            > it
            > of Shumei, see:
            > -> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fukuoka_farming/message/3526
            > -> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fukuoka_farming/message/3532
            > -> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fukuoka_farming/message/10144
            >
            > Once again in some posts here in this group Bob Monie thinks that the
            > phrase
            > "nature farming" is used to distinguish it from Fukuoka Masanobu sensei's
            > "natural farming", but this is wrong. I'm speaking pedantically (&
            > scientifically) when i say: misunderstanding losses in translation from the
            >
            > Japanese by the English phrase "natural farming"; Given that the Japanese
            > is the
            > same phrase shizen nōhō 自然農法, in both Fukuoka Masanobu sensei's and Okada
            > Mokichi's (Japanese) writings. Bob Monie made that up evidently. Reading
            > the
            > Japanese dictionary definitions of shizen 自然 help to understand what shizen
            >
            > means, guessing doesn't, positing a guess of one of the many meanings of
            > the
            > English words nature or natural doesn't. Of the many widely used meanings
            > of the
            > English word nature or natural, perhaps pedantically (& scientifically on
            > words) the nearest English meaning is:
            > -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nature_(innate)
            > In quoting, incorrectly Bob wrote:
            > "The Shumei "natural agriculture" is often called "nature farming" to
            > distinguish it from Fukuoka's "natural" farming."
            >
            > Cheers & respect (genuine) to Bob, and to all, all life,
            >
            > Jason Stewart
            > south eastern Oz.
            >
            > ________________________________
            > From: Ohkubo-Covert <inochi4@... <inochi4%40mac.com>>
            > To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com <fukuoka_farming%40yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Thu, 16 September, 2010 7:26:10 AM
            > Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Read this book?
            >
            > Brian,
            >
            > Thanks for the info on the book "Nature Farming in Japan" by the
            > Chinese author.
            >
            > For fellow list members here who haven't seen it, we can access this
            > same book online -- for free -- in its entirety at this link:
            >
            > > http://www.trnres.com/ebook/uploads/rsxu.pdf
            >
            > Brian Covert
            > Hyogo, Japan
            >
            > On 2010/09/14, at 21:06, Brian Pellerin wrote:
            >
            > >
            > > AUTHOR: Xu, Hui-lian
            > > TITLE: NATURE FARMING IN JAPAN
            > > DATE: 2006
            > > ISBN: 9788130801193
            > >
            > > I just obtained a copy from my college. Looks very interesting with
            > > all the references to Fukuoka and his techniques!
            > >
            > > Brian
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >



            --
            Raju Titus. Hoshangabad.India.
            +919179738049.
            http://picasaweb.google.com/rajuktitus<http://picasawebalbum.google.com/rajuktitus>


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Jason Stewart
            Dear friend Raju, This message s text character encoding is Unicode UTF-8:. There s no difference in the words in Japanese for Nature Farming 自然農法 and
            Message 5 of 14 , Sep 16, 2010
            • 0 Attachment
              Dear friend Raju,

              This message's text character encoding is Unicode UTF-8:.

              There's no difference in the words in Japanese for Nature Farming 自然農法 and
              Natural Farming 自然農法, written by Fukuoka Masanobu sensei & supporters & Okada
              Mokichi & his followers respectively.
              There are real differences in the philosophies, significant differences in the
              defining principles, and very big differences in the practices.

              Please Raju let's get Fukuoka's words right per-se, in his Japanese, and
              understanding them in English.
              Please, if you don't see any difference between the words in English: nature and
              natural, then please don't disagree with me.
              Firstly, I'm writing this for many many critical-people who speak English as
              their first language, who tell me they do see real differences between the words
              nature and natural.
              Dear Raju, in Hindi I'd like to know what Fukuoka Masanobu sensei had for
              translations from his words 自然農法 (shizen nōhō), please? And then we will
              translate those direct Hindi words into English, as best and resonating in
              English as much as possible.
              The differences get explained in dictionaries, and reasonably explained in that
              book, which, it's a pity, does however have a Okada Mokichi bias in the number
              of words it devotes to Okada Mokichi compared with the number of words it
              devotes to Fukuoka Masanobu sensei, of course.
              Nature Farming clearly more correctly translates Fukuoka Masanobu sensei's 自然農法
              from Japanese to English for the purpose of words (words alone).

              Dear Raju, Fukuoka Masanobu sensei has far better *Nature Farming* philosophies
              哲学, principles, and practices... .
              As do you, and Panos, and Honma, and more people.
              Words nature & natural don't differentiate between your better practices and
              other worse practices, the practices themselves do differentiate, the principles
              Fukuoka Masanobu sensei wrote in Japanese do differentiate, and the spiritual
              experience(s) Fukuoka Masanobu sensei experienced, articulated and philosophised
              about do differentiate.
              Far better philosophically, and most importantly IMHO far better spiritually
              enlightened Nature Farming 'revelation(s)'.

              Nature Farming as a phrase resonates in English very well for English speakers
              what Fukuoka Masanobu is saying in the rest of his writings, eg. spiritual,
              philosophical, principles, practices.

              Please, friend Yugandjar and friend Sumant, will you translate the meaning of
              this into Hindi for friend Raju Titus's benefit, for me and us all.

              Please understand friend Raju that i support wholeheartedly your principles,
              practices, philosophy, spirituality and understanding given to you directly
              by Fukuoka Masanobu sensei himself in direct translation to Hindi, by, i read
              two translators at one time. It is in the context of my support for you and your
              activities that i criticise a little your mere words below about only English
              translation.

              On shizen 自然 in Japanese, and on Nature (English) or natural,
              here is one of my Japanese-English dictionaries pages quoted:
              "
              しぜん【自然】
              1 〔天然の姿〕nature (▼冠詞をつけない)
              派生語 自然 (のまま) の|natural
              自然を友とする|take nature for a friend / [make a friend of / be close to] nature
              自然に親しむ|commune [converse] with nature
              自然の懐に抱かれて休息した|⦅文語⦆ We rested in the bosom of nature.
              渓谷のすばらしい自然の景観を楽しんだ|We enjoyed the wonderful natural view of the ravine.
              自然の威力に打たれた|I was struck by the power of nature.
              小さな虫の世界にも自然の営みがある|Even in the world of tiny insects, the working of nature goes
              on.
              子孫のために美しい自然を保護してゆかねばならない|We must preserve this beautiful natural scenery for
              posterity.
              このあたりにはまだ自然が残っている|The natural environment has been preserved in this area.
              2 〔ありのまま,無理がない様子〕
              君の話し方は自然だ|Your way of speaking is very natural.
              彼の立ち居振る舞いは自然でない|His behavior is unnatural [affected].
              気取らず自然に話す|speak unaffectedly
              自然に振る舞う|behave naturally
              3 〔当然〕
              彼女が母を慕うのは自然だ|It is only natural that she should be deeply attached to her
              mother.
              無口だから自然と友人も少ない|He is so reserved that naturally he has few friends.
              4 〔ひとりでそうなる様子〕
              派生語 自然の|〔自然発生的,自発的〕spontaneous; 〔自動的,反射的〕automatic
              派生語 自然に|spontaneously; automatically
              自然にわく思想|a spontaneous thought
              我々の呼吸は自然になされるものだ|Our breathing is automatic [autonomic].
              傷は自然になおった|The wound healed by itself.
              自然の成り行きに任せる|leave ⦅a matter⦆ to take its own course / let nature take its course
              自然の結果として|as a natural result
              あの人の前に出ると自然と礼儀正しくなる|When I am in his presence, my
              manners automatically [naturally] improve.
              それを聞いて自然とほほが緩んだ|When I heard it, I couldn't help smiling.
              あとで自然と分かることだ|Time will tell.
              最年長者なので自然とまとめ役になった|Because I was the oldest, I automatically became the
              coordinator.
              合成語
              自然界|nature; the natural world
              自然改造|the remodeling [reshaping] of nature
              自然科学|natural science
              自然観|an outlook on nature; a view of nature
              自然換気|natural ventilation
              自然環境保全地域|a nature conservation area
              自然環境保全法|the Nature Conservation Law
              自然休会|a spontaneous recess
              自然現象|a natural phenomenon ⦅複-na⦆
              自然公園|a nature park
              自然災害|a natural disaster
              自然死|a natural death
              ・ 自然死する|die a natural death; die naturally
              自然主義|〔文学,哲学で〕naturalism
              ・ 自然主義的|naturalistic
              自然主義者|a naturalist
              自然食品|natural food(s)
              自然人|「a natural [an unspoiled] person
              自然数|〔数学で,正の整数〕a natural number
              自然崇拝|nature worship
              自然崇拝者|a nature worshiper
              自然生態系|a natural ecosystem
              自然葬|natural burial
              自然増加|〔法律で,財産の〕accretion
              人口の自然増加率|the rate of natural population increase
              自然増収|〔経済で〕an automatic increase in revenue
              自然体|a natural [relaxed] posture
              自然体で立つ[構える]|stand naturally
              自然対数|〔数学で〕a natural [Napierian] logarithm
              自然淘汰(とうた)|natural selection
              弱いものは自然淘汰されてしまう|The weak [die out / are weeded out] through the process
              of natural selection.
              自然治癒|(a) spontaneous cure
              ・ 自然治癒する|「be cured [heal] spontaneously
              自然地理学|physical geography
              自然農法|chemical-free [organic] farming
              自然発火|spontaneous combustion
              自然発生|spontaneous generation; 〔生物で〕autogenesis
              山火事の自然発生|the spontaneous outbreak of a fire in the mountains
              この会は自然発生的にできたものだ|This society came into being spontaneously.
              自然美|natural beauty
              自然描写|(a) description of nature
              自然法|natural law; jus naturale
              自然法則|natural laws; the law of nature
              自然保護|the protection [conservation, preservation] of nature
              自然保護運動|a conservation movement
              自然保護団体|a conservation group
              自然遊歩道|a nature trail
              自然療法|a nature cure
              自然力|the force of nature; natural agency; elemental forces
              ⇒コラム「環境公害」
              "

              BTW most properly, pedantically, also,:
              natural in Japanese: shizen no 自然 の, shown above at the top.
              rather, nature in Japanese simply: shizen 自然.
              Of course "nature farming" or popularly called "natural farming" in Japanese
              simply: shizen nōhō 自然農法 , as i've said before many times here.

              This message with much Japanese text will also experimentally test Yahoo more.

              I criticise destructive practices and so on like often by PermaCult... because i
              don't support those practices and because i don't support the ego-blinded title
              and it's meaning, PermaCult... . No thing permanently cultures. Eternal changing
              cultures aren't permanent. Eternal ≠ Permanent. Eternal nature ≠ Permanent
              culture nor even their first intended meaning of perennial agriculture.

              Nature is Protean in form.
              All form is formless and void.
              Tjukurpa, the Pitjantjatjara language cosmology, for example, describes eternal
              nature-culture amomgst more meanings that it carries within it.

              Enjoy i hope, and sorry for the previous double post,

              Jason Stewart
              south eastern Oz (Oz = slang for Australia)



              ________________________________
              From: Raju Titus <rajuktitus@...>
              To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Thu, 16 September, 2010 7:51:01 PM
              Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Read this book?


              Dear firend,
              There is a lot of diffrence in" Nature farming" and Natural farming (Fukuoka
              way of farming). Dr Hawards' organic way of farming is also differ from
              fukuoka farming. Meaning of Organic as per my point of view is Live and
              tilling is killing. Soil is a group of many microbs is become dead due to
              tilling.
              Thanks for the information and book.
              Raju

              On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 8:42 AM, Jason Stewart <macropneuma@...>wrote:

              >
              >
              > This message's text character encoding is Unicode UTF-8:.
              >
              > "
              > Hui-lian Xu
              > Senior Researcher and Deputy Director, Agricultural Experiment Station
              > International Nature Farming Research Center, Hata, Nagano 390- 1401, Japan
              >
              > "
              >
              > Previously I read somewhere, which i can't find now -let us know briefly
              > please
              > if you have found this, or correct me if i'm wrong-, that Hui-lian Xu has
              > worked
              > in this Agricultural Experiment Station, in Nagano Japan, for seven years?
              >
              > Thanks, i suppose, Brian Covert for posting this free-book link. Thanks
              > also so
              > very much for the photos previously Brian; I don't know where to start
              > saying
              > the magnitude of how grateful i am for the photos of *practice*
              > continuining in
              > Japan.
              > Secretly-for-irony, for instance for not spoon feeding readers about how
              > to simply google search, and for instance also for not precluding the
              > Indian
              > publisher from making some revenue from us members of the 'wealthy world',
              > i
              > kept that (secret), previously when i posted here about the book at:
              > -> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fukuoka_farming/message/10943
              >
              > From:
              > -> http://www.infrc.or.jp/english/INFRC_Web_2_draft/Organization.html
              >
              > "
              > International Nature Farming Research Center (INFRC)
              >
              > ________________________________
              >
              > >>>Organization
              > ________________________________
              >
              > >>>
              >
              > Establishment
              > The International Nature Farming Research Center was established with the
              > objectives of enhancing economic stability of farmers and producing
              > nutritious
              > and good quality food for human consumption, through research and extension
              >
              > programs of agricultural techniques based on ecological principles that
              > preserve
              > the natural environment. These objectives follow the philosophies of
              > Mokichi
              > Okada, the founder of Nature Farming, which state "Respect Nature and
              > Conform to
              > Its Laws" and "Allow the Living Soil to Exhibit Its Great Potential
              > Abilities."
              >
              > Nature Farming has been practiced and handed down over generations by
              > supporters
              > of Okada's philosophy even during the times when it was thought that
              > agriculture
              > cannot progress without using chemical fertilizers and pesticides. Today we
              > find
              > attention being focused on the need for food safety and environmental
              > protection. Therefore Nature Farming has been highly appraised for its role
              > in
              > these times. This is confirmed by the fact that the Center has been
              > approved as
              > a foundation by the Ministry of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries, and
              > remains
              > active in developing and spreading Nature Farming as an alternative
              > agricultural
              > option.
              >
              > History
              >
              > 1935:
              > Mokichi Okada advocated the principles of his farming method.
              >
              > 1982:
              > The International Nature Farming Development Center was established.
              >
              > 1985:
              > The International Nature Farming Research Center was established as a
              > foundation.
              >
              > 2000:
              > The Center was approved as a registered certification organization for the
              > JAS
              > Organic Certification Program.
              > "
              >
              > Okada-Mokichi-following nature farming 自然農法 - see also related:
              > http://www.shumei.org/
              > http://www.shumei-na.org/
              > http://www.shumeicrestone.org/
              >
              > There's Okada-Mokichi-following nature farming 自然農法 here in Australia. That
              > farm
              > here calls it, in English, "pure farming" or sometimes calls it, in
              > English,
              > "macrobiotic farming".
              >
              > Some previous posts about Okada Mokichi nature farming, and outgrowths from
              > it
              > of Shumei, see:
              > -> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fukuoka_farming/message/3526
              > -> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fukuoka_farming/message/3532
              > -> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fukuoka_farming/message/10144
              >
              > Once again in some posts here in this group Bob Monie thinks that the
              > phrase
              > "nature farming" is used to distinguish it from Fukuoka Masanobu sensei's
              > "natural farming", but this is wrong. I'm speaking pedantically (&
              > scientifically) when i say: misunderstanding losses in translation from the
              >
              > Japanese by the English phrase "natural farming"; Given that the Japanese
              > is the
              > same phrase shizen nōhō 自然農法, in both Fukuoka Masanobu sensei's and Okada
              > Mokichi's (Japanese) writings. Bob Monie made that up evidently. Reading
              > the
              > Japanese dictionary definitions of shizen 自然 help to understand what shizen
              >
              > means, guessing doesn't, positing a guess of one of the many meanings of
              > the
              > English words nature or natural doesn't. Of the many widely used meanings
              > of the
              > English word nature or natural, perhaps pedantically (& scientifically on
              > words) the nearest English meaning is:
              > -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nature_(innate)
              > In quoting, incorrectly Bob wrote:
              > "The Shumei "natural agriculture" is often called "nature farming" to
              > distinguish it from Fukuoka's "natural" farming."
              >
              > Cheers & respect (genuine) to Bob, and to all, all life,
              >
              > Jason Stewart
              > south eastern Oz.
              >
              > ________________________________
              > From: Ohkubo-Covert <inochi4@... <inochi4%40mac.com>>
              > To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com <fukuoka_farming%40yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Thu, 16 September, 2010 7:26:10 AM
              > Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Read this book?
              >
              > Brian,
              >
              > Thanks for the info on the book "Nature Farming in Japan" by the
              > Chinese author.
              >
              > For fellow list members here who haven't seen it, we can access this
              > same book online -- for free -- in its entirety at this link:
              >
              > > http://www.trnres.com/ebook/uploads/rsxu.pdf
              >
              > Brian Covert
              > Hyogo, Japan
              >
              > On 2010/09/14, at 21:06, Brian Pellerin wrote:
              >
              > >
              > > AUTHOR: Xu, Hui-lian
              > > TITLE: NATURE FARMING IN JAPAN
              > > DATE: 2006
              > > ISBN: 9788130801193
              > >
              > > I just obtained a copy from my college. Looks very interesting with
              > > all the references to Fukuoka and his techniques!
              > >
              > > Brian
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >

              --
              Raju Titus. Hoshangabad.India.
              +919179738049.
              http://picasaweb.google.com/rajuktitus<http://picasawebalbum.google.com/rajuktitus>




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • 倩 冯
              Thanks a lot Brian and Ohkubo From which page,does the author mention Fukuoka farming?I have no time to read all the book,so just the key point. By the
              Message 6 of 14 , Sep 16, 2010
              • 0 Attachment
                Thanks a lot Brian and Ohkubo

                From which page,does the author mention Fukuoka farming?I have no time to read all the book,so just the key point.

                By the way,Brian, are you in Canada?

                Best regards

                Chris(Qian FENG)




                --- 10年9月16日,周四, Ohkubo-Covert <inochi4@...> 写道:

                发件人: Ohkubo-Covert <inochi4@...>
                主题: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Read this book?
                收件人: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                日期: 2010年9月16日,周四,上午5:26



                Brian,

                Thanks for the info on the book "Nature Farming in Japan" by the 
                Chinese author.

                For fellow list members here who haven't seen it, we can access this 
                same book online -- for free -- in its entirety at this link:

                > http://www.trnres.com/ebook/uploads/rsxu.pdf


                Brian Covert
                Hyogo, Japan


                On 2010/09/14, at 21:06, Brian Pellerin wrote:

                >
                > AUTHOR: Xu, Hui-lian
                > TITLE: NATURE FARMING IN JAPAN
                > DATE: 2006
                > ISBN: 9788130801193
                >
                > I just obtained a copy from my college. Looks very interesting with 
                > all the references to Fukuoka and his techniques!
                >
                > Brian
                >
                >
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                ------------------------------------

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                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Vargan
                ... I m speaking pedantically (& scientifically) when i say: misunderstanding losses in translation from the Japanese by the English phrase natural farming ;
                Message 7 of 14 , Sep 16, 2010
                • 0 Attachment
                  --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, Jason Stewart <macropneuma@...> wrote:
                  "I'm speaking pedantically (&
                  scientifically) when i say: misunderstanding losses in translation from the
                  Japanese by the English phrase "natural farming"; Given that the Japanese is the
                  same phrase shizen nōhō 自然農法, in both Fukuoka Masanobu sensei's and Okada
                  Mokichi's (Japanese) writings. "

                  If I am not mistaken, in Chinese language you can distinguish adjective from noun only by its place in the collocation. The same word is adjective if it is used before, and noun if it is used after.
                  English language tends to the same approach: you can see than the collocations "forest deer" and "deer forest" consist of the same words but they differs in meaning only because of the order of the words.
                  Perhaps there is the same in Japanese language.

                  Regards,
                  Vargan
                • G. G. Hegde
                  Skimmed through the book quickly. I felt this is a good read. thanks and regards, gg ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  Message 8 of 14 , Sep 16, 2010
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Skimmed through the book quickly. I felt this is a good read.

                    thanks and regards,
                    gg

                    On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 3:21 PM, Raju Titus <rajuktitus@...> wrote:

                    >
                    >
                    > Dear firend,
                    > There is a lot of diffrence in" Nature farming" and Natural farming
                    > (Fukuoka
                    > way of farming). Dr Hawards' organic way of farming is also differ from
                    > fukuoka farming. Meaning of Organic as per my point of view is Live and
                    > tilling is killing. Soil is a group of many microbs is become dead due to
                    > tilling.
                    > Thanks for the information and book.
                    > Raju
                    >
                    > On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 8:42 AM, Jason Stewart <macropneuma@...<macropneuma%40yahoo.com.au>
                    > >wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > This message's text character encoding is Unicode UTF-8:.
                    > >
                    > > "
                    > > Hui-lian Xu
                    > > Senior Researcher and Deputy Director, Agricultural Experiment Station
                    > > International Nature Farming Research Center, Hata, Nagano 390- 1401,
                    > Japan
                    > >
                    > > "
                    > >
                    > > Previously I read somewhere, which i can't find now -let us know briefly
                    > > please
                    > > if you have found this, or correct me if i'm wrong-, that Hui-lian Xu has
                    > > worked
                    > > in this Agricultural Experiment Station, in Nagano Japan, for seven
                    > years?
                    > >
                    > > Thanks, i suppose, Brian Covert for posting this free-book link. Thanks
                    > > also so
                    > > very much for the photos previously Brian; I don't know where to start
                    > > saying
                    > > the magnitude of how grateful i am for the photos of *practice*
                    > > continuining in
                    > > Japan.
                    > > Secretly-for-irony, for instance for not spoon feeding readers about how
                    > > to simply google search, and for instance also for not precluding the
                    > > Indian
                    > > publisher from making some revenue from us members of the 'wealthy
                    > world',
                    > > i
                    > > kept that (secret), previously when i posted here about the book at:
                    > > -> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fukuoka_farming/message/10943
                    > >
                    > > From:
                    > > -> http://www.infrc.or.jp/english/INFRC_Web_2_draft/Organization.html
                    > >
                    > > "
                    > > International Nature Farming Research Center (INFRC)
                    > >
                    > > ________________________________
                    > >
                    > > >>>Organization
                    > > ________________________________
                    > >
                    > > >>>
                    > >
                    > > Establishment
                    > > The International Nature Farming Research Center was established with the
                    > > objectives of enhancing economic stability of farmers and producing
                    > > nutritious
                    > > and good quality food for human consumption, through research and
                    > extension
                    > >
                    > > programs of agricultural techniques based on ecological principles that
                    > > preserve
                    > > the natural environment. These objectives follow the philosophies of
                    > > Mokichi
                    > > Okada, the founder of Nature Farming, which state "Respect Nature and
                    > > Conform to
                    > > Its Laws" and "Allow the Living Soil to Exhibit Its Great Potential
                    > > Abilities."
                    > >
                    > > Nature Farming has been practiced and handed down over generations by
                    > > supporters
                    > > of Okada's philosophy even during the times when it was thought that
                    > > agriculture
                    > > cannot progress without using chemical fertilizers and pesticides. Today
                    > we
                    > > find
                    > > attention being focused on the need for food safety and environmental
                    > > protection. Therefore Nature Farming has been highly appraised for its
                    > role
                    > > in
                    > > these times. This is confirmed by the fact that the Center has been
                    > > approved as
                    > > a foundation by the Ministry of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries, and
                    > > remains
                    > > active in developing and spreading Nature Farming as an alternative
                    > > agricultural
                    > > option.
                    > >
                    > > History
                    > >
                    > > 1935:
                    > > Mokichi Okada advocated the principles of his farming method.
                    > >
                    > > 1982:
                    > > The International Nature Farming Development Center was established.
                    > >
                    > > 1985:
                    > > The International Nature Farming Research Center was established as a
                    > > foundation.
                    > >
                    > > 2000:
                    > > The Center was approved as a registered certification organization for
                    > the
                    > > JAS
                    > > Organic Certification Program.
                    > > "
                    > >
                    > > Okada-Mokichi-following nature farming 自然農法 - see also related:
                    > > http://www.shumei.org/
                    > > http://www.shumei-na.org/
                    > > http://www.shumeicrestone.org/
                    > >
                    > > There's Okada-Mokichi-following nature farming 自然農法 here in Australia.
                    > That
                    > > farm
                    > > here calls it, in English, "pure farming" or sometimes calls it, in
                    > > English,
                    > > "macrobiotic farming".
                    > >
                    > > Some previous posts about Okada Mokichi nature farming, and outgrowths
                    > from
                    > > it
                    > > of Shumei, see:
                    > > -> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fukuoka_farming/message/3526
                    > > -> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fukuoka_farming/message/3532
                    > > -> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fukuoka_farming/message/10144
                    > >
                    > > Once again in some posts here in this group Bob Monie thinks that the
                    > > phrase
                    > > "nature farming" is used to distinguish it from Fukuoka Masanobu sensei's
                    > > "natural farming", but this is wrong. I'm speaking pedantically (&
                    > > scientifically) when i say: misunderstanding losses in translation from
                    > the
                    > >
                    > > Japanese by the English phrase "natural farming"; Given that the Japanese
                    > > is the
                    > > same phrase shizen nōhō 自然農法, in both Fukuoka Masanobu sensei's and Okada
                    > > Mokichi's (Japanese) writings. Bob Monie made that up evidently. Reading
                    > > the
                    > > Japanese dictionary definitions of shizen 自然 help to understand what
                    > shizen
                    > >
                    > > means, guessing doesn't, positing a guess of one of the many meanings of
                    > > the
                    > > English words nature or natural doesn't. Of the many widely used meanings
                    > > of the
                    > > English word nature or natural, perhaps pedantically (& scientifically on
                    > > words) the nearest English meaning is:
                    > > -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nature_(innate)
                    > > In quoting, incorrectly Bob wrote:
                    > > "The Shumei "natural agriculture" is often called "nature farming" to
                    > > distinguish it from Fukuoka's "natural" farming."
                    > >
                    > > Cheers & respect (genuine) to Bob, and to all, all life,
                    > >
                    > > Jason Stewart
                    > > south eastern Oz.
                    > >
                    > > ________________________________
                    > > From: Ohkubo-Covert <inochi4@... <inochi4%40mac.com> <inochi4%
                    > 40mac.com>>
                    > > To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com <fukuoka_farming%40yahoogroups.com><fukuoka_farming%
                    > 40yahoogroups.com>
                    >
                    > > Sent: Thu, 16 September, 2010 7:26:10 AM
                    > > Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Read this book?
                    > >
                    > > Brian,
                    > >
                    > > Thanks for the info on the book "Nature Farming in Japan" by the
                    > > Chinese author.
                    > >
                    > > For fellow list members here who haven't seen it, we can access this
                    > > same book online -- for free -- in its entirety at this link:
                    > >
                    > > > http://www.trnres.com/ebook/uploads/rsxu.pdf
                    > >
                    > > Brian Covert
                    > > Hyogo, Japan
                    > >
                    > > On 2010/09/14, at 21:06, Brian Pellerin wrote:
                    > >
                    > > >
                    > > > AUTHOR: Xu, Hui-lian
                    > > > TITLE: NATURE FARMING IN JAPAN
                    > > > DATE: 2006
                    > > > ISBN: 9788130801193
                    > > >
                    > > > I just obtained a copy from my college. Looks very interesting with
                    > > > all the references to Fukuoka and his techniques!
                    > > >
                    > > > Brian
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    > --
                    > Raju Titus. Hoshangabad.India.
                    > +919179738049.
                    > http://picasaweb.google.com/rajuktitus<
                    > http://picasawebalbum.google.com/rajuktitus>
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Jason Stewart
                    Dear Vargan, In Japanese, no -- not in Japanese, at least. 自然農法 (shizen nōhō) . See Japanese-English dictionary entries, and a a full clarification
                    Message 9 of 14 , Sep 17, 2010
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                      Dear Vargan,

                      In Japanese, no -- not in Japanese, at least.

                      "自然農法 (shizen nōhō)".

                      See Japanese-English dictionary entries, and a a full clarification in my
                      subsequent posts, of which all posts where delayed a very little -- no worries
                      about the delay.
                      And incidently, Japanese has differences from Chinese (Mandarin or Cantonese or
                      others).
                      See for instance links in the wikipedia page
                      -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masanobu_Fukuoka
                      I commend to you the Digital Dictionary of Buddhism, having at least just
                      individual words, but often much more, in Japanese, Chinese, Korean, and often
                      in Tibetan and Sanskrit too -- Sanskrit helps alot in getting to the
                      meant-meaning of Buddhist words.

                      etcetera, etcetera. --sorry it's 1:05am here and i've been very busy writing all
                      day since about 9:30am
                      Good night!!! from Oz. (Hence sorry if this messages writing is poor quality
                      articulation also, i'm too tired just now for much, but feel the need to
                      promptly reply.)

                      Best wishes,

                      Jase.
                      south eastern Oz.



                      ________________________________
                      From: Vargan <novrooz@...>
                      To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Fri, 17 September, 2010 1:33:18 AM
                      Subject: [fukuoka_farming] shizen n�h� (was Re: Read this book?)




                      --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, Jason Stewart <macropneuma@...> wrote:
                      "I'm speaking pedantically (&
                      scientifically) when i say: misunderstanding losses in translation from the
                      Japanese by the English phrase "natural farming"; Given that the Japanese is the

                      same phrase shizen nōhō 自然農法, in both Fukuoka Masanobu sensei's and Okada
                      Mokichi's (Japanese) writings. "

                      If I am not mistaken, in Chinese language you can distinguish adjective from
                      noun only by its place in the collocation. The same word is adjective if it is
                      used before, and noun if it is used after.

                      English language tends to the same approach: you can see than the collocations
                      "forest deer" and "deer forest" consist of the same words but they differs in
                      meaning only because of the order of the words.

                      Perhaps there is the same in Japanese language.

                      Regards,
                      Vargan




                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Jason Stewart
                      Dear friend Chris(Qian FENG), Of particular relevance to Fukuoka farming -- 福岡正信の自然農法 (fukuoka masanobu no shizen nōhō) Fukuoka Masanobu s
                      Message 10 of 14 , Sep 17, 2010
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                        Dear friend Chris(Qian FENG),

                        Of particular relevance to Fukuoka farming --"福岡正信の自然農法 (fukuoka masanobu
                        no shizen nōhō)" Fukuoka Masanobu's nature farming--
                        Please see:
                        -page 10-12
                        -page 90 (end of the section above the section that starts there, on page 90)
                        -page 134
                        -pages 138-140
                        -pages 150-151 for references.
                        That comes from me using Apple Mac preview application to read the PDF file, and
                        search for Fukuoka's keywords.
                        The page numbers *should* be the same for that PDF file when used in any reader
                        software.


                        Good night! in Oz,
                        Best wishes,

                        Jason Stewart
                        south eastern Oz.


                        ________________________________
                        From: 倩 冯 <crystalfengqian@...>
                        To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Fri, 17 September, 2010 12:16:32 AM
                        Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Read this book?


                        Thanks a lot Brian and Ohkubo

                        From which page,does the author mention Fukuoka farming?I have no time to read
                        all the book,so just the key point.

                        By the way,Brian, are you in Canada?

                        Best regards

                        Chris(Qian FENG)

                        --- 10年9月16日,周四, Ohkubo-Covert <inochi4@...> 写道:

                        发件人: Ohkubo-Covert <inochi4@...>
                        主题: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Read this book?
                        收件人: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                        日期: 2010年9月16日,周四,上午5:26

                        Brian,

                        Thanks for the info on the book "Nature Farming in Japan" by the
                        Chinese author.

                        For fellow list members here who haven't seen it, we can access this
                        same book online -- for free -- in its entirety at this link:

                        > http://www.trnres.com/ebook/uploads/rsxu.pdf

                        Brian Covert
                        Hyogo, Japan

                        On 2010/09/14, at 21:06, Brian Pellerin wrote:

                        >
                        > AUTHOR: Xu, Hui-lian
                        > TITLE: NATURE FARMING IN JAPAN
                        > DATE: 2006
                        > ISBN: 9788130801193
                        >
                        > I just obtained a copy from my college. Looks very interesting with
                        > all the references to Fukuoka and his techniques!
                        >
                        > Brian
                        >
                        >
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                        ------------------------------------

                        Yahoo! Groups Links

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Raju Titus
                        dear friend, Send pictures in group photo space or email to me i will share throgh picasaalbum. Raju Titus On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 12:27 PM, bessonnier
                        Message 11 of 14 , Sep 17, 2010
                        • 0 Attachment
                          dear friend,
                          Send pictures in group photo space or email to me i will share throgh
                          picasaalbum.
                          Raju Titus

                          On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 12:27 PM, bessonnier s�bastien
                          <jugglebeth@...>wrote:

                          >
                          >
                          > Hello,
                          >
                          > I am starting natural farming and organic farming experimentation in
                          > Mayotte.
                          > I arrive in this magical island two months ago to work in a public french
                          > research institution and after a little time of observation, adaptation,
                          > speaking, listening and understanding, I succeed to convince the local
                          > coworkers
                          > of our station to stop using chemicals.
                          > So for the moment, I have found natural insecticide plant growing there
                          > (tephrosia and derris).
                          > I found local and traditional varieties of rice (currently disappearing
                          > because
                          > of thai rice importation)
                          > We have also local varities of cassava, banana and traditional cucurbittae
                          > etc...
                          > So, because we are 6 persons working on the field there, I am so happy to
                          > have
                          > tools, man hand to make almost what I have in mind...
                          >
                          > I am totally interesting bu Fukuoka sense� work as soon as I discover it in
                          >
                          > Auroville (India) and visited his farm in Shikoku (but he was died the year
                          >
                          > before the same day of my birthday), the ruins of his little house and camp
                          > for
                          > his student on the hill and I also on his grave... a wondeful trip...
                          >
                          > All of this to say that I started also the clay bullet seeds and direct
                          > implantation of vegetable on grass. I study also grass and green cover (we
                          > have
                          > purpueria also know as kudzu in japan).
                          >
                          > So if you don't mind I will try to give some news and picture of my
                          > experimentation and you are free of any consideration, critical, advices or
                          >
                          > other speak as you want on this subject of natural farming in mayotte
                          >
                          > Thanks to share,
                          >
                          > S�bastien, french plant lover
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >
                          >



                          --
                          Raju Titus. Hoshangabad.India.
                          +919179738049.
                          http://picasaweb.google.com/rajuktitus<http://picasawebalbum.google.com/rajuktitus>


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