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Re: Help on a 50 meter square plot

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  • sumant_jo
    Hi, I haven t much experience using the Fukuoka technique but I have read a lot on the subject, I also have grown trees in 9 inch plastic bags in my balcony
    Message 1 of 5 , Jul 25, 2010
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      Hi,
      I haven't much experience using the Fukuoka technique but I have read a lot on the subject, I also have grown trees in 9 inch plastic bags in my balcony using kitchen waste. They have grown about 10 feet tall. I think following points are worth considering:
      1) depending on how long back your plot was tilled / farmed, it will take some time to get the yields you expect. Maybe an year or more.
      2)Fukuoka advises farmers to only control weeds in such a way that the farmed plants have an advantage.
      3)manure will only increase weeds
      4)Ground cover must be maintained at all times to prevent soils erosion. You could cut the weeds to as low as possible and then use old jute gunny bags etc. to cover them so that it will discourage weeds and encourage earthworms and other soils rejuvenating organisms.
      5)once this has been done, your plot is ready for the seed balls. these balls ensure that you don't have to time when to plant anything. the seeds know what to do.
      6)have patience and trust these methods, it is as much a learning process as well as getting the Earth to get used to this new way of farming. The results will start showing after some time. soil health problems are probably because of 'traditional' farming methods

      best of luck

      sumant


      --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "ilsott" <ilsott@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi.
      > I've recently tried to gain insight into Fukuoka Farming techniques, and I've been exploring no-till gardening.
      >
      > I've just gained the ability to have a vegetable garden in a 20m x 30m plot.
      >
      > I was wondering if anyone would help me plan an approach to setting up the plot so that
      >
      > A) I won't have to touch it too much (I'll only be able to tend it about once a week due to location)
      >
      > B) I can do as little as possible to the ground.
      >
      > C) Rely on few outside sources. I don't think I'm going to be able to truck in manure or use straw for mulching (I already use all the straw I have available on my friend's garden)
      >
      > I'm in a temperate zone in north italy. The ground is not very light.
      > Right now the plot is pretty overgrown with weeds. They're about knee-high, some more.
      >
      > My intent was to cut the weeds and create overground beds with the cuttings for the rest of summer, the more weeds grow, the more I cut, the more goes onto the beds.
      >
      > Now, I'm divided over making seed balls at the end of summer or planting small plants next spring.
      >
      > I'm also worried that if I don't till or add a 10 cm thick blanket of manure the plants won't stick. Will the composted weeds provide enough rotting matter for soil nutrition? In my other garden things are growing slow or wilting when they come to fruit. I think I have soil health problems, and I'm looking at using manure on some parts and sheet composting on others.
      >
      > Thanks for whatever help you can offer.
      > William
      >
    • Tom Gibson
      ... a lot on the subject, I also have grown trees in 9 inch plastic bags in my balcony using kitchen waste. They have grown about 10 feet tall. I ... take some
      Message 2 of 5 , Jul 28, 2010
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        --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "sumant_jo" <sumant_jo@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Hi,
        > I haven't much experience using the Fukuoka technique but I have read
        a lot on the subject, I also have grown trees in 9 inch plastic bags in
        my balcony using kitchen waste. They have grown about 10 feet tall. I
        think following points are worth considering:
        > 1) depending on how long back your plot was tilled / farmed, it will
        take some time to get the yields you expect. Maybe an year or more.
        It may take decades or a generation to achieve the true potential of
        your land
        > 2)Fukuoka advises farmers to only control weeds in such a way that the
        farmed plants have an advantage.
        > 3)manure will only increase weeds
        Any foreign inputs that are brought from outside your own land has the
        potential of bringing pests or disease. However, when establising new
        land it might be necessary to bring in outside inputs. Ideally manure
        will be hot composted or allowed to age for at least six months. Animals
        close a lot of open loops in most ecological systems. Fukuoka used
        chickens after barley before rice and animals in the orchard where they
        control weeds and insects while providing manure to enrich the soil.
        > 4)Ground cover must be maintained at all times to prevent soils
        erosion. You could cut the weeds to as low as possible and then use old
        jute gunny bags etc. to cover them so that it will discourage weeds and
        encourage earthworms and other soils rejuvenating organisms.
        > 5)once this has been done, your plot is ready for the seed balls.
        these balls ensure that you don't have to time when to plant anything.
        the seeds know what to do.
        Seed balls are usually used to colonize a site where there is nothing
        growing.
        > 6)have patience and trust these methods, it is as much a learning
        process as well as getting the Earth to get used to this new way of
        farming. The results will start showing after some time. soil health
        problems are probably because of 'traditional' farming methods
        It might not be possible to leap directly into natural farming. Like
        many things a transition process may be necessary. Also, unless you live
        in a temperate climate that experiences the same climate cycle as Japan,
        you might have to adapt techniques that are appropriate for your locale.

        Tom Gibson
        www.camaspermaculture.org <http://www.camaspermaculture.org>
        >
        > best of luck
        >
        > sumant
        >
        >
        > --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "ilsott" ilsott@ wrote:
        > >
        > > Hi.
        > > I've recently tried to gain insight into Fukuoka Farming techniques,
        and I've been exploring no-till gardening.
        > >
        > > I've just gained the ability to have a vegetable garden in a 20m x
        30m plot.
        > >
        > > I was wondering if anyone would help me plan an approach to setting
        up the plot so that
        > >
        > > A) I won't have to touch it too much (I'll only be able to tend it
        about once a week due to location)
        > >
        > > B) I can do as little as possible to the ground.
        > >
        > > C) Rely on few outside sources. I don't think I'm going to be able
        to truck in manure or use straw for mulching (I already use all the
        straw I have available on my friend's garden)
        > >
        > > I'm in a temperate zone in north italy. The ground is not very
        light.
        > > Right now the plot is pretty overgrown with weeds. They're about
        knee-high, some more.
        > >
        > > My intent was to cut the weeds and create overground beds with the
        cuttings for the rest of summer, the more weeds grow, the more I cut,
        the more goes onto the beds.
        > >
        > > Now, I'm divided over making seed balls at the end of summer or
        planting small plants next spring.
        > >
        > > I'm also worried that if I don't till or add a 10 cm thick blanket
        of manure the plants won't stick. Will the composted weeds provide
        enough rotting matter for soil nutrition? In my other garden things are
        growing slow or wilting when they come to fruit. I think I have soil
        health problems, and I'm looking at using manure on some parts and sheet
        composting on others.
        > >
        > > Thanks for whatever help you can offer.
        > > William
        > >
        >




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • ilsott
        Thanks for the advice. I think what I m going to do is A) cut 3 plots into the area, bringing the weeds down to the soil level. I ll leave the space between
        Message 3 of 5 , Jul 29, 2010
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          Thanks for the advice.
          I think what I'm going to do is
          A) cut 3 plots into the area, bringing the weeds down to the soil level. I'll leave the space between the plots overgrown to attract insects.

          B) put paper or cardboard over it.

          C) put tree bark mulch over that.

          D) plant daikon radishes and a legume before the summer ends. I'll just leave them in the ground to break up the soil and add nitrogen.

          E) plant in the spring daikon (again just for the "veggie-manure"), legumes, squash, Jerusalem artichokes (if I can find them here). I'm trying to find a group of vegetables that work together to bring water up, loosen the soil, generally take care of themselves, and give me a crop of one or two things I wouldn't grow otherwise (or that give high quantities of food like squash).

          Thanks again,
          William

          --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Gibson" <camaspermaculture@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "sumant_jo" <sumant_jo@>
          > wrote:
          > >
          > > Hi,
          > > I haven't much experience using the Fukuoka technique but I have read
          > a lot on the subject, I also have grown trees in 9 inch plastic bags in
          > my balcony using kitchen waste. They have grown about 10 feet tall. I
          > think following points are worth considering:
          > > 1) depending on how long back your plot was tilled / farmed, it will
          > take some time to get the yields you expect. Maybe an year or more.
          > It may take decades or a generation to achieve the true potential of
          > your land
          > > 2)Fukuoka advises farmers to only control weeds in such a way that the
          > farmed plants have an advantage.
          > > 3)manure will only increase weeds
          > Any foreign inputs that are brought from outside your own land has the
          > potential of bringing pests or disease. However, when establising new
          > land it might be necessary to bring in outside inputs. Ideally manure
          > will be hot composted or allowed to age for at least six months. Animals
          > close a lot of open loops in most ecological systems. Fukuoka used
          > chickens after barley before rice and animals in the orchard where they
          > control weeds and insects while providing manure to enrich the soil.
          > > 4)Ground cover must be maintained at all times to prevent soils
          > erosion. You could cut the weeds to as low as possible and then use old
          > jute gunny bags etc. to cover them so that it will discourage weeds and
          > encourage earthworms and other soils rejuvenating organisms.
          > > 5)once this has been done, your plot is ready for the seed balls.
          > these balls ensure that you don't have to time when to plant anything.
          > the seeds know what to do.
          > Seed balls are usually used to colonize a site where there is nothing
          > growing.
          > > 6)have patience and trust these methods, it is as much a learning
          > process as well as getting the Earth to get used to this new way of
          > farming. The results will start showing after some time. soil health
          > problems are probably because of 'traditional' farming methods
          > It might not be possible to leap directly into natural farming. Like
          > many things a transition process may be necessary. Also, unless you live
          > in a temperate climate that experiences the same climate cycle as Japan,
          > you might have to adapt techniques that are appropriate for your locale.
          >
          > Tom Gibson
          > www.camaspermaculture.org <http://www.camaspermaculture.org>
          > >
          > > best of luck
          > >
          > > sumant
          > >
          > >
          > > --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "ilsott" ilsott@ wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Hi.
          > > > I've recently tried to gain insight into Fukuoka Farming techniques,
          > and I've been exploring no-till gardening.
          > > >
          > > > I've just gained the ability to have a vegetable garden in a 20m x
          > 30m plot.
          > > >
          > > > I was wondering if anyone would help me plan an approach to setting
          > up the plot so that
          > > >
          > > > A) I won't have to touch it too much (I'll only be able to tend it
          > about once a week due to location)
          > > >
          > > > B) I can do as little as possible to the ground.
          > > >
          > > > C) Rely on few outside sources. I don't think I'm going to be able
          > to truck in manure or use straw for mulching (I already use all the
          > straw I have available on my friend's garden)
          > > >
          > > > I'm in a temperate zone in north italy. The ground is not very
          > light.
          > > > Right now the plot is pretty overgrown with weeds. They're about
          > knee-high, some more.
          > > >
          > > > My intent was to cut the weeds and create overground beds with the
          > cuttings for the rest of summer, the more weeds grow, the more I cut,
          > the more goes onto the beds.
          > > >
          > > > Now, I'm divided over making seed balls at the end of summer or
          > planting small plants next spring.
          > > >
          > > > I'm also worried that if I don't till or add a 10 cm thick blanket
          > of manure the plants won't stick. Will the composted weeds provide
          > enough rotting matter for soil nutrition? In my other garden things are
          > growing slow or wilting when they come to fruit. I think I have soil
          > health problems, and I'm looking at using manure on some parts and sheet
          > composting on others.
          > > >
          > > > Thanks for whatever help you can offer.
          > > > William
          > > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • Pietro
          I had a similar problem. This is what Panos suggested me: 1) throw the seedballs around beginning of autumn. 2) after having thrown the seedballs, and before
          Message 4 of 5 , Jul 29, 2010
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            I had a similar problem. This is what Panos suggested me:
            1) throw the seedballs around beginning of autumn.
            2) after having thrown the seedballs, and before the rain cut the weed. So they fall over the seedballs.
            3) rain
            if number 3 waits, you might need to cut the weeds again.

            Note: I have not tried myself.
            Note: I live in a Mediterrean country.

            Let us know how it works out. I shall try myself this autumn.

            Pietro
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