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Re: masanobu fukuoka video, afforestation

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  • Jason
    Aah, sorry Kostas, my both small AND big mistaken assumption! (i have Fukuoka sensei s Japanese book of hundreds of photos, translated title is Travelling
    Message 1 of 7 , Jul 23, 2010
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      Aah, sorry Kostas, my both small AND big mistaken assumption!
      (i have Fukuoka sensei 's Japanese book of hundreds of photos, translated title is Travelling [the world] with seedballs, which contains many photos from this international seedballs workshop event in Greece as shown in the video. The captions under the photos name Panos, wrongly i assumed you were there too).

      Very interested to know more about the results of this workshop's big efforts back in 1998, what grew itself, what was learnt from what didn't grow, so called (relativist) both 'successes AND failures', what improved methods and practices since then have evolved... .

      A big AND small thank you for correcting me Kostas

      Cheers,

      Jase.

      --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "KONSTANTINOS" <karoubas@...> wrote:
      >
      > just a small (or very big correction) - I was not there (Karoubas)
      > Kostas
      >
      > --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "Jason" <macropneuma@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Wow!
      > > Excellent! Yeah!
      > > So heart-warming and practical-
      > > Thank you so krishna mohan
      > > Yes my little voice too i add to say yes indeed "please go through this video".
      > > (Greece, 10,000 hectares desertified-mountains' reseeding,
      > > children, 100s farmers, international volunteers, Panos & Karoubas leaders, Fukuoka sensei,
      > > (video - 105MB - 26 mins))
      > >
      > > After going through that i found more pages from Fukuoka, Masanobu sensei there in the archive, eg.:
      > > Rounded interview with Fukuoka, Masanobu sensei in 1982!
      > > -> http://ia341339.us.archive.org/0/items/MasanobuFukuokaInterviewWithLarryKorn/40years.htm
      > >
      > >
      > > Enjoy! i hope,
      > > regards,
      > >
      > > Jason
      > > -> http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=3789507&l=632d25f97f&id=785914212
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "SkoolBabe2k9" <krishnamohan12@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Hi All,
      > > >
      > > > Please go through this video.
      > > >
      > > > http://www.archive.org/details/MasanobuFukuoka-ArnissaGreece-1998
      > > >
      > > > fukuoka in video, afforestation using seed balls.
      > > >
      > > > regards,
      > > > krishna mohan.
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • KONSTANTINOS
      Hello Jason I believe I have answered this question before (on the results of the seeding project - with Fukuoka-San s participation). The volunteers had an
      Message 2 of 7 , Jul 27, 2010
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        Hello Jason
        I believe I have answered this question before (on the results of the seeding project - with Fukuoka-San's participation).

        The volunteers had an agreement with the national government that they would safeguard the area - they were to pay the herders to keep the goats and sheep away from the area.

        A few weeks after the area was seeded, the government changed hands from one party to the other; the herders were not paid, and as soon as the seed balls sprouted and the area turned green, the goats and sheep had a field day - nothing was left.

        I am just passing along what Panos told me - I have not been at the seeding project.


        Kostas




        --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "Jason" <macropneuma@...> wrote:
        >
        > Aah, sorry Kostas, my both small AND big mistaken assumption!
        > (i have Fukuoka sensei 's Japanese book of hundreds of photos, translated title is Travelling [the world] with seedballs, which contains many photos from this international seedballs workshop event in Greece as shown in the video. The captions under the photos name Panos, wrongly i assumed you were there too).
        >
        > Very interested to know more about the results of this workshop's big efforts back in 1998, what grew itself, what was learnt from what didn't grow, so called (relativist) both 'successes AND failures', what improved methods and practices since then have evolved... .
        >
        > A big AND small thank you for correcting me Kostas
        >
        > Cheers,
        >
        > Jase.
        >
        > --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "KONSTANTINOS" <karoubas@> wrote:
        > >
        > > just a small (or very big correction) - I was not there (Karoubas)
        > > Kostas
        > >
        > > --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "Jason" <macropneuma@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Wow!
        > > > Excellent! Yeah!
        > > > So heart-warming and practical-
        > > > Thank you so krishna mohan
        > > > Yes my little voice too i add to say yes indeed "please go through this video".
        > > > (Greece, 10,000 hectares desertified-mountains' reseeding,
        > > > children, 100s farmers, international volunteers, Panos & Karoubas leaders, Fukuoka sensei,
        > > > (video - 105MB - 26 mins))
        > > >
        > > > After going through that i found more pages from Fukuoka, Masanobu sensei there in the archive, eg.:
        > > > Rounded interview with Fukuoka, Masanobu sensei in 1982!
        > > > -> http://ia341339.us.archive.org/0/items/MasanobuFukuokaInterviewWithLarryKorn/40years.htm
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Enjoy! i hope,
        > > > regards,
        > > >
        > > > Jason
        > > > -> http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=3789507&l=632d25f97f&id=785914212
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "SkoolBabe2k9" <krishnamohan12@> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > Hi All,
        > > > >
        > > > > Please go through this video.
        > > > >
        > > > > http://www.archive.org/details/MasanobuFukuoka-ArnissaGreece-1998
        > > > >
        > > > > fukuoka in video, afforestation using seed balls.
        > > > >
        > > > > regards,
        > > > > krishna mohan.
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
      • sumant_jo
        Hi everyone, Well, I guess there is lesson here for us all. I was responsible for the CSR (eyewash) program with a multinational where I worked last year and
        Message 3 of 7 , Jul 28, 2010
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          Hi everyone,
          Well, I guess there is lesson here for us all. I was responsible for the CSR (eyewash) program with a multinational where I worked last year and this was my experience too. We would 'proudly' announce planting so many trees and in a months time they would have all but gone. Most people don't give a damn about the environment and things are getting really bad. If someone plants trees, these people will wait for them to grow and then merrily chop them for firewood. Cattle are preventing forests from regenerating in Indian rural areas. fencing is the only option. There is really no point in such large scale afforestation programs unless someone is willing to follow up and have guards deployed.

          sumant


          --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "KONSTANTINOS" <karoubas@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello Jason
          > I believe I have answered this question before (on the results of the seeding project - with Fukuoka-San's participation).
          >
          > The volunteers had an agreement with the national government that they would safeguard the area - they were to pay the herders to keep the goats and sheep away from the area.
          >
          > A few weeks after the area was seeded, the government changed hands from one party to the other; the herders were not paid, and as soon as the seed balls sprouted and the area turned green, the goats and sheep had a field day - nothing was left.
          >
          > I am just passing along what Panos told me - I have not been at the seeding project.
          >
          >
          > Kostas
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "Jason" <macropneuma@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Aah, sorry Kostas, my both small AND big mistaken assumption!
          > > (i have Fukuoka sensei 's Japanese book of hundreds of photos, translated title is Travelling [the world] with seedballs, which contains many photos from this international seedballs workshop event in Greece as shown in the video. The captions under the photos name Panos, wrongly i assumed you were there too).
          > >
          > > Very interested to know more about the results of this workshop's big efforts back in 1998, what grew itself, what was learnt from what didn't grow, so called (relativist) both 'successes AND failures', what improved methods and practices since then have evolved... .
          > >
          > > A big AND small thank you for correcting me Kostas
          > >
          > > Cheers,
          > >
          > > Jase.
          > >
          > > --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "KONSTANTINOS" <karoubas@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > just a small (or very big correction) - I was not there (Karoubas)
          > > > Kostas
          > > >
          > > > --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "Jason" <macropneuma@> wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > Wow!
          > > > > Excellent! Yeah!
          > > > > So heart-warming and practical-
          > > > > Thank you so krishna mohan
          > > > > Yes my little voice too i add to say yes indeed "please go through this video".
          > > > > (Greece, 10,000 hectares desertified-mountains' reseeding,
          > > > > children, 100s farmers, international volunteers, Panos & Karoubas leaders, Fukuoka sensei,
          > > > > (video - 105MB - 26 mins))
          > > > >
          > > > > After going through that i found more pages from Fukuoka, Masanobu sensei there in the archive, eg.:
          > > > > Rounded interview with Fukuoka, Masanobu sensei in 1982!
          > > > > -> http://ia341339.us.archive.org/0/items/MasanobuFukuokaInterviewWithLarryKorn/40years.htm
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > Enjoy! i hope,
          > > > > regards,
          > > > >
          > > > > Jason
          > > > > -> http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=3789507&l=632d25f97f&id=785914212
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "SkoolBabe2k9" <krishnamohan12@> wrote:
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Hi All,
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Please go through this video.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > http://www.archive.org/details/MasanobuFukuoka-ArnissaGreece-1998
          > > > > >
          > > > > > fukuoka in video, afforestation using seed balls.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > regards,
          > > > > > krishna mohan.
          > > > > >
          > > > >
          > > >
          > >
          >
        • Jason
          Dear friend Kostas, Hmmm, as everyone i guess, sorry to hear that. Just me, I didn t read that before, and this sorry (old) news wasn t evident to me in
          Message 4 of 7 , Aug 1, 2010
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            Dear friend Kostas,

            Hmmm,
            as everyone i guess, sorry to hear that. Just me, I didn't read that before, and this sorry (old) news wasn't evident to me in Fukuoka sensei's many photos in Greece in his 2002 Japanese book:
            福岡正信 (2002) わら一本の革å`½ã€€ç·æ‹¬ç·¨ã€€- 粘土団子の旅。
            (Fukuoka, Masanobu (2002) "Wara ippon no kakumei sokatsuhen: nendo dango no tabi") -(A revolution from one length of straw - recapitulation/general summary: Travelling [around the world] with seedballs)
            (ISBN4-938743-02-7).
            From what you write, evidently the photos of growth and 're-greening' in Greece in Fukuoka-sensei's book are from different seeding projects there in Greece, from which i take so much heart - That other projects have re-greened areas, even if not that particular 3-10,000 hectares Lake Vegoritis project together with Fukuoka sensei. That project's story makes me somewhat sad as usual. I've also seen 're-greening' great results there in Greece in photos on your website, thank you so much i like to say, to you & Panos Manikis and all. I think we'd all love to hear lessons learned there by this sad project and the other great results there i've seen photos of, eg. 2007, when you can send us links to photos or writing you may've already done about this, or when you have time. Sorry i asked you to repeat this somewhat sad news again here.


            A really ironic and slightly amusing *tangent*,
            in S.E. Australia here, we have very serious invasion of:

            Ελληνική (Greek)
            n. - (φυτολ.) ράχος ο ευρωπαϊκός, σχοίνος
            Gorse or Furze (Ulex europeaus in our case here in SE Oz)
            It comes from western Europe, and perhaps different species of Ulex genus occur or did occur there in Greece.
            -Legumes -nitrogen-fixers-
            -Very fast colonisers -in other words highly invasive here in S. E. Oz-
            -Extremely sharp-spiny-thorny to the point of impenetrable, for ordinarily clothed humans or for stock including impenetrable for even goats, and also for sheep & cattle.
            -extremely prolific seed producers, quoting from *5.
            "Seed falls onto the ground at a rate from 600 seeds/m2/ year to 2120 seeds/m2/year. This is an annual input to the soil of 6 to 21 million seeds/ha.
            ...
            Gorse has a very large, long-lived soil seed bank. This is the reason that it takes years or decades to eradicate gorse from a site. There are up to 40,000 gorse seeds/m2 or 400 million seeds/ha in the soil under a mature gorse bush at any one time.
            "
            A legume -nitrogen-fixer- growing very thorny-spiny and impenetrable to grazers makes persistent habitat in which to seed many other species of taller-than-Ulex-growth habit, hopefully to grow primary succession and eventually further re-green those areas?


            Anyway,
            I guess all of you there in Greece cannot seed even a Greek-native species of ράχος ο ευρωπαϊκός, σχοίνος (Gorse/Furze) (_Ulex_ spp.) all over historically desertified hinterlands there, because of some rule restricting spread of thorny-spiny un-grazable 'weeds'??


            Biggest best wishes from,
            I really look up to 'you guys',

            Jason
            S.E. Oz.

            _Further reading and footnotes_
            *1. -> http://www.answers.com/topic/gorse
            *2. -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorse
            *3. -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulex_europaeus
            *4. -> http://www.weeds.org.au/WoNS/gorse/
            *5. -> http://www.weeds.org.au/WoNS/gorse/docs/GNBPM-chapter1.pdf


            --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "KONSTANTINOS" <karoubas@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hello Jason
            > I believe I have answered this question before (on the results of the seeding project - with Fukuoka-San's participation).
            >
            > The volunteers had an agreement with the national government that they would safeguard the area - they were to pay the herders to keep the goats and sheep away from the area.
            >
            > A few weeks after the area was seeded, the government changed hands from one party to the other; the herders were not paid, and as soon as the seed balls sprouted and the area turned green, the goats and sheep had a field day - nothing was left.
            >
            > I am just passing along what Panos told me - I have not been at the seeding project.
            >
            >
            > Kostas
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "Jason" <macropneuma@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Aah, sorry Kostas, my both small AND big mistaken assumption!
            > > (i have Fukuoka sensei 's Japanese book of hundreds of photos, translated title is Travelling [the world] with seedballs, which contains many photos from this international seedballs workshop event in Greece as shown in the video. The captions under the photos name Panos, wrongly i assumed you were there too).
            > >
            > > Very interested to know more about the results of this workshop's big efforts back in 1998, what grew itself, what was learnt from what didn't grow, so called (relativist) both 'successes AND failures', what improved methods and practices since then have evolved... .
            > >
            > > A big AND small thank you for correcting me Kostas
            > >
            > > Cheers,
            > >
            > > Jase.
            > >
            > > --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "KONSTANTINOS" <karoubas@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > just a small (or very big correction) - I was not there (Karoubas)
            > > > Kostas
            > > >
            > > > --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "Jason" <macropneuma@> wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > Wow!
            > > > > Excellent! Yeah!
            > > > > So heart-warming and practical-
            > > > > Thank you so krishna mohan
            > > > > Yes my little voice too i add to say yes indeed "please go through this video".
            > > > > (Greece, 10,000 hectares desertified-mountains' reseeding,
            > > > > children, 100s farmers, international volunteers, Panos & Karoubas leaders, Fukuoka sensei,
            > > > > (video - 105MB - 26 mins))
            > > > >
            > > > > After going through that i found more pages from Fukuoka, Masanobu sensei there in the archive, eg.:
            > > > > Rounded interview with Fukuoka, Masanobu sensei in 1982!
            > > > > -> http://ia341339.us.archive.org/0/items/MasanobuFukuokaInterviewWithLarryKorn/40years.htm
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > Enjoy! i hope,
            > > > > regards,
            > > > >
            > > > > Jason
            > > > > -> http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=3789507&l=632d25f97f&id=785914212
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "SkoolBabe2k9" <krishnamohan12@> wrote:
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Hi All,
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Please go through this video.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > http://www.archive.org/details/MasanobuFukuoka-ArnissaGreece-1998
            > > > > >
            > > > > > fukuoka in video, afforestation using seed balls.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > regards,
            > > > > > krishna mohan.
            > > > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            >
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