Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Difference, or not

Expand Messages
  • Nigel Williams
    Hi! Interesting discussions, and lot of good information. I watch the debate between permaculture and Fukuoka and other experiences with some amusement. Are
    Message 1 of 5 , Jan 2, 2010
    • 0 Attachment
      Hi!

      Interesting discussions, and lot of good information.

      I watch the 'debate' between permaculture and Fukuoka and other experiences with some amusement. Are not the principles of Fukuoka and permaculture basically as expressed by Fukuoka himself: "Plants will grow by themselves."?

      Sure we can do a few things to optimise the growing conditions in terms of the soil and climate we have where we are, and we can spread seed balls around with the sort of food we think we need and which would grow. But in the main our aim is to let a patch of ground under our control maximise its perpetual growing potential all by itself, so that we, as a small tribe of hungry humans, can wander through our forest / garden and by our respective God's grace find enough to eat to keep us alive until tomorrow.

      Our learning is best assisted by people here telling us what they have found that works, and what does not. Then we each wander among this information-garden and share in the spiritual and practical fruits hanging there for us to pick - each according to her and his need.

      There is no need for stress or acrimony here, only the gentle harmony and slow seasonal cycles of the earth, the plants and those animals it willingly sustains.

      And we cannot feed the world, we cannot save the world. All we can do is make the best preparations we can to prepare ourselves for the coming troubles, and pray that in our small corner of the world, the world will agree to feed us...

      Keep up the great work!
      Nigel Williams

      New Zealand

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • George
      Nigel All we can do is make the best preparations we can to prepare ourselves for the coming troubles, and pray that in our small corner of the world, the
      Message 2 of 5 , Jan 5, 2010
      • 0 Attachment
        Nigel

        "All we can do is make the best preparations we can to prepare ourselves for the coming troubles, and pray that in our small corner of the world, the world will agree to feed us..."

        ...and use our god given abilities to share our experiences with our neighbourhood and communities, model good practices for people who are interested, publicly discuss the 'coming troubles', support the good work of others and advocate for our local communities & councils and our government to make steps toward sustainability.

        rob

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Nigel Williams
        To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 12:08 PM
        Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Re: Difference, or not



        Hi!

        Interesting discussions, and lot of good information.

        I watch the 'debate' between permaculture and Fukuoka and other experiences with some amusement. Are not the principles of Fukuoka and permaculture basically as expressed by Fukuoka himself: "Plants will grow by themselves."?

        Sure we can do a few things to optimise the growing conditions in terms of the soil and climate we have where we are, and we can spread seed balls around with the sort of food we think we need and which would grow. But in the main our aim is to let a patch of ground under our control maximise its perpetual growing potential all by itself, so that we, as a small tribe of hungry humans, can wander through our forest / garden and by our respective God's grace find enough to eat to keep us alive until tomorrow.

        Our learning is best assisted by people here telling us what they have found that works, and what does not. Then we each wander among this information-garden and share in the spiritual and practical fruits hanging there for us to pick - each according to her and his need.

        There is no need for stress or acrimony here, only the gentle harmony and slow seasonal cycles of the earth, the plants and those animals it willingly sustains.

        And we cannot feed the world, we cannot save the world. All we can do is make the best preparations we can to prepare ourselves for the coming troubles, and pray that in our small corner of the world, the world will agree to feed us...

        Keep up the great work!
        Nigel Williams

        New Zealand

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • nigwil
        Rob! Absolutely! But in our efforts with others, both individuals and community groups, councils and government, we can only lead the horses to water. We
        Message 3 of 5 , Jan 5, 2010
        • 0 Attachment
          Rob! Absolutely!

          But in our efforts with others, both individuals and community groups, councils and government, we can only lead the horses to water. We cannot make them drink, and we should not disturb our own tranquility, or divert from our own purpose if they refuse to even in the face of what ever good evidence for change is before them.

          It is too easy to get sucked in to the maelstrom of community 'politics', of radical action and of feelings of inadequacy brought about by our seeming inability "..to make them understand." Like shaking a silly child - it never solves anything.

          Our primary duty is to make ourselves strong, and yes to learn from the best and help the rest of the willing ones. Only from that position of strength can we reach back to help others who - for the time being - may be unable to see the way.

          Thanks

          Nigel

          --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "George" <roblyn@...> wrote:
          >
          > Nigel
          >
          > "All we can do is make the best preparations we can to prepare ourselves for the coming troubles, and pray that in our small corner of the world, the world will agree to feed us..."
          >
          > ...and use our god given abilities to share our experiences with our neighbourhood and communities, model good practices for people who are interested, publicly discuss the 'coming troubles', support the good work of others and advocate for our local communities & councils and our government to make steps toward sustainability.
          >
          > rob
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: Nigel Williams
          > To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 12:08 PM
          > Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Re: Difference, or not
          >
          >
          >
          > Hi!
          >
          > Interesting discussions, and lot of good information.
          >
          > I watch the 'debate' between permaculture and Fukuoka and other experiences with some amusement. Are not the principles of Fukuoka and permaculture basically as expressed by Fukuoka himself: "Plants will grow by themselves."?
          >
          > Sure we can do a few things to optimise the growing conditions in terms of the soil and climate we have where we are, and we can spread seed balls around with the sort of food we think we need and which would grow. But in the main our aim is to let a patch of ground under our control maximise its perpetual growing potential all by itself, so that we, as a small tribe of hungry humans, can wander through our forest / garden and by our respective God's grace find enough to eat to keep us alive until tomorrow.
          >
          > Our learning is best assisted by people here telling us what they have found that works, and what does not. Then we each wander among this information-garden and share in the spiritual and practical fruits hanging there for us to pick - each according to her and his need.
          >
          > There is no need for stress or acrimony here, only the gentle harmony and slow seasonal cycles of the earth, the plants and those animals it willingly sustains.
          >
          > And we cannot feed the world, we cannot save the world. All we can do is make the best preparations we can to prepare ourselves for the coming troubles, and pray that in our small corner of the world, the world will agree to feed us...
          >
          > Keep up the great work!
          > Nigel Williams
          >
          > New Zealand
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • Frank McAvinchey
          Demonstrating the effectiveness is most effective, I agree. Seems to me that just quietly showing the way without any coerciveness, slander, bad mouthing,
          Message 4 of 5 , Jan 5, 2010
          • 0 Attachment
            Demonstrating the effectiveness is most effective, I agree. Seems to me
            that just quietly showing the way without any coerciveness, slander, bad
            mouthing, etc., is going to be THE most effective way to convert them. Show
            the results, then let it be.

            Cheers,

            Frank

            On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 8:51 PM, nigwil <nigwil@...> wrote:

            >
            >
            > Rob! Absolutely!
            >
            > But in our efforts with others, both individuals and community groups,
            > councils and government, we can only lead the horses to water. We cannot
            > make them drink, and we should not disturb our own tranquility, or divert
            > from our own purpose if they refuse to even in the face of what ever good
            > evidence for change is before them.
            >
            > It is too easy to get sucked in to the maelstrom of community 'politics',
            > of radical action and of feelings of inadequacy brought about by our seeming
            > inability "..to make them understand." Like shaking a silly child - it never
            > solves anything.
            >
            > Our primary duty is to make ourselves strong, and yes to learn from the
            > best and help the rest of the willing ones. Only from that position of
            > strength can we reach back to help others who - for the time being - may be
            > unable to see the way.
            >
            > Thanks
            >
            > Nigel
            >
            >
            > --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com <fukuoka_farming%40yahoogroups.com>,
            > "George" <roblyn@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > Nigel
            > >
            > > "All we can do is make the best preparations we can to prepare ourselves
            > for the coming troubles, and pray that in our small corner of the world, the
            > world will agree to feed us..."
            > >
            > > ...and use our god given abilities to share our experiences with our
            > neighbourhood and communities, model good practices for people who are
            > interested, publicly discuss the 'coming troubles', support the good work of
            > others and advocate for our local communities & councils and our government
            > to make steps toward sustainability.
            > >
            > > rob
            > >
            > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > From: Nigel Williams
            > > To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com <fukuoka_farming%40yahoogroups.com>
            > > Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 12:08 PM
            > > Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Re: Difference, or not
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Hi!
            > >
            > > Interesting discussions, and lot of good information.
            > >
            > > I watch the 'debate' between permaculture and Fukuoka and other
            > experiences with some amusement. Are not the principles of Fukuoka and
            > permaculture basically as expressed by Fukuoka himself: "Plants will grow by
            > themselves."?
            > >
            > > Sure we can do a few things to optimise the growing conditions in terms
            > of the soil and climate we have where we are, and we can spread seed balls
            > around with the sort of food we think we need and which would grow. But in
            > the main our aim is to let a patch of ground under our control maximise its
            > perpetual growing potential all by itself, so that we, as a small tribe of
            > hungry humans, can wander through our forest / garden and by our respective
            > God's grace find enough to eat to keep us alive until tomorrow.
            > >
            > > Our learning is best assisted by people here telling us what they have
            > found that works, and what does not. Then we each wander among this
            > information-garden and share in the spiritual and practical fruits hanging
            > there for us to pick - each according to her and his need.
            > >
            > > There is no need for stress or acrimony here, only the gentle harmony and
            > slow seasonal cycles of the earth, the plants and those animals it willingly
            > sustains.
            > >
            > > And we cannot feed the world, we cannot save the world. All we can do is
            > make the best preparations we can to prepare ourselves for the coming
            > troubles, and pray that in our small corner of the world, the world will
            > agree to feed us...
            > >
            > > Keep up the great work!
            > > Nigel Williams
            > >
            > > New Zealand
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • George
            Nigel We picked our battles and we have to be strategic. This doesn t amount to a withdrawl from engagement with the various powers who can make a difference
            Message 5 of 5 , Jan 6, 2010
            • 0 Attachment
              Nigel

              We picked our battles and we have to be strategic. This doesn't amount to a withdrawl from engagement with the various powers who can make a difference though. Nor is it any judgement on you as I have no knwoledge on your activity.

              To illustrate my point. I made a submission to Parliament about the National Govt changes to the Emissions Trading Scheme. The Labour Govt scheme was not perfect, the proposed replacement even less so. I didn't expect my efforts to make a significant difference. In the end, they did not.

              I live in Hamilton. A team from Auckland & here are campaigning for a Hamilton-Auckland commuter rail service. At present they are running a petition. I think this issue is winnable longer term so I have devoted a fair deal of my time to it. I achieved 1300 signatures on the petition in 3 weeks. The petition is signing itself, it has widespread recognition & appeal amongst Hamilton people. I will devote more of my time to this as I think it can succeed. I pick my battles.

              I have not bothered much with local campaigns about flouride in water.

              rob

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: nigwil
              To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 2:51 PM
              Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Re: Difference, or not



              Rob! Absolutely!

              But in our efforts with others, both individuals and community groups, councils and government, we can only lead the horses to water. We cannot make them drink, and we should not disturb our own tranquility, or divert from our own purpose if they refuse to even in the face of what ever good evidence for change is before them.

              It is too easy to get sucked in to the maelstrom of community 'politics', of radical action and of feelings of inadequacy brought about by our seeming inability "..to make them understand." Like shaking a silly child - it never solves anything.

              Our primary duty is to make ourselves strong, and yes to learn from the best and help the rest of the willing ones. Only from that position of strength can we reach back to help others who - for the time being - may be unable to see the way.

              Thanks

              Nigel

              --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "George" <roblyn@...> wrote:
              >
              > Nigel
              >
              > "All we can do is make the best preparations we can to prepare ourselves for the coming troubles, and pray that in our small corner of the world, the world will agree to feed us..."
              >
              > ...and use our god given abilities to share our experiences with our neighbourhood and communities, model good practices for people who are interested, publicly discuss the 'coming troubles', support the good work of others and advocate for our local communities & councils and our government to make steps toward sustainability.
              >
              > rob
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: Nigel Williams
              > To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 12:08 PM
              > Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Re: Difference, or not
              >
              >
              >
              > Hi!
              >
              > Interesting discussions, and lot of good information.
              >
              > I watch the 'debate' between permaculture and Fukuoka and other experiences with some amusement. Are not the principles of Fukuoka and permaculture basically as expressed by Fukuoka himself: "Plants will grow by themselves."?
              >
              > Sure we can do a few things to optimise the growing conditions in terms of the soil and climate we have where we are, and we can spread seed balls around with the sort of food we think we need and which would grow. But in the main our aim is to let a patch of ground under our control maximise its perpetual growing potential all by itself, so that we, as a small tribe of hungry humans, can wander through our forest / garden and by our respective God's grace find enough to eat to keep us alive until tomorrow.
              >
              > Our learning is best assisted by people here telling us what they have found that works, and what does not. Then we each wander among this information-garden and share in the spiritual and practical fruits hanging there for us to pick - each according to her and his need.
              >
              > There is no need for stress or acrimony here, only the gentle harmony and slow seasonal cycles of the earth, the plants and those animals it willingly sustains.
              >
              > And we cannot feed the world, we cannot save the world. All we can do is make the best preparations we can to prepare ourselves for the coming troubles, and pray that in our small corner of the world, the world will agree to feed us...
              >
              > Keep up the great work!
              > Nigel Williams
              >
              > New Zealand
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.