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Fw: [fukuoka_farming] ratbags

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  • edward barton
    ... From: edward barton To: Jason Stewart Sent: Sun, January 3, 2010 3:07:45 PM Subject: Re:
    Message 1 of 1 , Jan 3, 2010
      ----- Forwarded Message ----
      From: edward barton <siliconvalley47@...>
      To: Jason Stewart <macropneuma@...>
      Sent: Sun, January 3, 2010 3:07:45 PM
      Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] ratbags

      Hi Jason,
      I admit i dont know the meaning of the word "ratbag" in inernet usage.and yes the Aussie Usage.
      I am sure you know very well that this an international site and not an Aussie site where you can flaunt. your Aussie slang
      at others who are not familiar with Aussie slang nor is there a requirement of this site to be proficient in Aussie slang.
      I need not remind you that we are here discussing fukuoka farming and Mr Fukuoka was a Japanese and not Australian.
      So where is the need for me to know Aussie slang.
      According to the meaning of ratbag sent by you it says rascal.shitstirrer,rogue, smart arse
      I dont think any member of this group either from Europe,USA.Asia would appreciate you calling them any of these words,
      Be courteous my friend and use peaceful words which are used internationally and surely u can use your Aussie slang with
      other Aussie Members of this site who can appreciate your Aussie slang.


      From: Jason Stewart <macropneuma@...>
      To: edward barton <siliconvalley47@...>; fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
      Cc: "fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com" <fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Sun, January 3, 2010 4:11:21 AM
      Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] ratbags

      You don't even know the meaning of the word ratbag in internet usage (& Aussie usage), do you Edward????

      -> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ratbag

      Ratbag is Aussie slang for Trouble maker or someone causing havok - When the word Ratbag is used its used in a non offence way.
      "My mates a real ratbag , we got kicked out because of his antics"
      trouble maker rascal shit stirrer rogue smart arse

      From: edward barton <siliconvalley47@...>
      To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com; Jason Stewart <macropneuma@...>
      Cc: "fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com" <fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Fri, 1 January, 2010 5:23:13 PM
      Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] ratbags

      Hi Jason.
      I strongly feel that people who have different ways of adopting Fukuoka s teachings
      are under no circumstances to be called as :"ratbags".
      Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion and i sincerely request you to refrain from using such
      harsh words for people who have different perceptions..
      Wishing Everyone on this Group
      HAPPY----HEALTHY------PROSPEROUS 2010.

      From: Jim Snyder <jim@...>
      To: Jason Stewart <macropneuma@...>
      Cc: "fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com" <fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Thu, December 31, 2009 10:20:45 PM
      Subject: RE: [fukuoka_farming] Re: What is the Difference?

      Jason: I wonder what Fukuoka would think of a reply such as yours below?

      I manage another site related to sustainable farming where one is free to discuss Fukuoka, Robert Rodale, Joel Salatin, Alan Nation, Jim Gerrish and any other type of sustainable farming activities.

      Jim Snyder
      Edmore, MI

      From: Jason Stewart <macropneuma@ yahoo.com. au>
      Subject: RE: [fukuoka_farming] Re: What is the Difference?

      Date: Thursday, December 31, 2009, 9:37 AM

      Purity is an excellent quality. It would benefit this group if only pure people are members, and if all you ratbags and purists leave (go to a group you relate to, are positive about, and a benefit to). If any one of you members here don't know the difference between pure & purist people, then you're slow or you don't have basic education enough to understand & appreciate the perfection of the human spirit starting point & primary purpose of Fukuoka farming. i write that kindly. Go to different groups and come back when you ARE ready for what Fukuoka writes. Fukuoka sensei's evidences & written information isn't a solipsists smorgasboard.
      This groups members would then consist of people with much more-quality farms, of less quantity total -& less quantity of off-topic ignorance, of opinionated- ignorance, of parasites & of ratbags, and more honest Fukuoka farming contributors. This would have more beneficial influence on the wider world from genuine cooperation & less pollution here. I'm disappointed that some members here want it the way i'm about to describe; Want to undermine Fukuoka's evident truths, eg. philosophy, eg. composting, Fukuoka's-writing proves unnecessary & wasteful. This is expected from those Americans who simply to survive, have to sell their souls for money because of the extreme inequalities & dog-eat-dog human conditions, & till recently 'health system', in USA.. Who can blame them, not me.

      Lowest common denominator communication in great quantity destroys the quality.

      James wrote:
      > Thank you Frank for your post. I was starting to wonder if I should unsubscribe from this group if I am not a Fukuoka purist.
      > I use no purchased fertilizers, compost all my manure from my cattle and goats to recycle it to build fertility, moisture holding ability and carbon in my soils. I have numerous mushrooms that grow in my pastures now when moisture conditions are right and had one 2 acre patch that produced 300 bushels/acre last growing season with half our normal rainfall.
      > I think Fukuoka methods are wonderful on a small scale but the immediate challenge facing us as earthlings is how to reduce greenhouse gases and feed a rapidly expanding population. Addressing these 2 major concerns will go a long way toward my wish for all of us and that is peace on earth.
      > All the best to everybody in 2010!
      > Jim Snyder
      > Edmore, MI
      > http://farmersforas ustainablefuture .ning.com/
      > --- In fukuoka_farming@ yahoogroups. com , Frank McAvinchey <fmcavin@... > wrote:
      >> Well, I must say, I find your rantings offensive. I'm amazed that you feel
      >> perfectly fine labeling another style of farming, and one that pretty much
      >> doesn't use a lot of pesticides, etc., as a cult. Boldly proclaiming to the
      >> world that Permaculture is a cult, and that what you are involved in is the
      >> "One True Church". You sound like a cult member, my friend. Perhaps you
      >> should read what you have just written from another's point of view. You
      >> truly sound like you've found a new religion, and have to vigorously defend
      >> it.
      >> Breath deep. Calm down. You will be fine. Judge not, and you will not be
      >> judged. First take the log out of your own eye, and then you will be able
      >> to take the sliver out of your brother's eye.
      >> Perhaps I was unaware that Fukuoka had started a new religion. Seriously,
      >> this thing is NOT a religion, and should NOT be treated as such. The next
      >> thing we know, someone is going to start training Fukuoka terrorists, who go
      >> out and sabotage Permaculture sites by broadcasting mudballs, and ringing
      >> the permaculture trees with chainsaws.
      >> It could easily be said that "Natural Farming" isn't natural at all. The
      >> only REAL, NATURAL way to farm is something that has been happening up til
      >> the present day. *It's called hunting and gathering.* If you plant seeds,
      >> you are doing something that is decidedly NOT natural. You are overcoming
      >> the propensity of nature to be bio-diverse, with a thick mix of
      >> multitudinous species all together.
      >> So unless you are going back to a purely hunting and gathering lifestyle,
      >> come down off the soapbox, please.
      >> All these discussions are very interesting, but let's not make a new
      >> religion out of this thing, let's just grow some food. Okay?
      >> I am coming down from MY soapbox now. No offense intended, please try to
      >> not be offended by this. It just seems SO often here, that people are
      >> actually trying to deify poor old Fukuoka. He's NOT God, nor a god. He's
      >> just a guy with an interesting idea.
      >> Thanks,
      >> Frank
      >> On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 12:58 AM, Jason <macropneuma@ ....> wrote:
      >> >
      >> >
      >> > G'day friend, Ezeli,
      >> > Hi! Jase from Oz (australia) here.
      >> > Please if you will read this introductory page
      >> > http://www.naturalf arming.eu/ of this website of Karoubas' & Panos' &
      >> > others in Greece.
      >> > The difference from PermaCulture is implied well in this introduction, even
      >> > though not explicit, as this implied criticism applies to other cult
      >> > movements as well, not only to PermaCult (as the better name for
      >> > PermCult...ure) .
      >> > An historical perspective is the way i explain PermaCult becoming the new
      >> > political correctness cult, at least here in Australia lately.
      >> > I have been associated with PermaCultists since the late 1980s, about 20
      >> > years, as a naturalist, natural farmer, and professional ecologist myself,
      >> > all that time never getting sucked in, by this PermaCult.
      >> > Most of PermaCult provides no new in innovations, all of it in their
      >> > writings & teachings is some one else's innovations of the past -
      >> > plagiarised:
      >> > -subtly with lip service given to giving credit to the true originator or
      >> > -bare-facedly ripped off from someone else's innovations.
      >> > Anyway, there's nothing new under the sun, at all, as the saying goes.
      >> > Even as a compilation plagairising other people's works, it isn't good, as
      >> > you will come to know from what i say below and in the long term over your
      >> > own learning.
      >> > Take everything you can extract & critically evaluate & then use from
      >> > PermaCult, by borrowing the books from the library or friends, don't buy any
      >> > of their books or multimedia (unless you 'have money to burn') IMHO, don't
      >> > pay for any of their expensive courses - they'll make you into a follower of
      >> > them IMHO rather than leaders of yourselves, etc. You may like to buy some
      >> > Fukuoka-sensei books, but these are merely the lantern, when you need & we
      >> > all need to follow the light, and can usually just as well be borrowed from
      >> > the library too.
      >> > PermaCult in this philosophical sense of it, brings real dangers.. Trying to
      >> > make permanent the very root problem of sustainability in
      >> > selfish-greed- hierarchies of egos. You may know already ego illusions
      >> > contain no reality - this you will learn in Fukuoka natural farming as well
      >> > as practical food growing, but the structure in PermaCult of big inflated
      >> > egos will not teach you about this root cause problem, as to do so would
      >> > undercut their whole structure, and their 'gurus'' money making businesses.
      >> > PermaCult orients itself around so called gurus (or so called teachers),
      >> > hierarchical social learning, capital-intensive practices & investments
      >> > required in its materials, expensive courses & books, thinly veiled
      >> > capitalistic rankings & shares in it's 'farms' (at least here in Oz), in its
      >> > practitioners & so called teachers or leaders, & profiteering for the so
      >> > called leaders of it, up the top of the hierarchy.
      >> > Australian people originated this PermaCult -shame on them- Bill Mollison
      >> > (in his many writings & multimedia i've seen) & David Holmgren (in person in
      >> > his talk i've attended and his many writings i've read), are the originators
      >> > & trademark holders of the PermaCult.... name and last but not least, the
      >> > most inflated egos around -no one moreso-
      >> >
      >> > Dive right in exactly!, because you have nature in yourself as your own
      >> > 'human natural nature', as much as you will be learning about plants &
      >> > animals, you & included in we all get to know how nature works from getting
      >> > to know how our own nature works when we are outside in our crops & foods.
      >> > They, Panos & Karoubas & others, provide some real solutions to the biggest
      >> > problems of European sustainability since Greek civilisation began!!!, so
      >> > long ago.
      >> >
      >> > Fukuoka sensei in his other books translated into English (Road back to
      >> > Nature & Natural Way of Farming) writes about Bill Mollison at conferences
      >> > with him in USA, and about PermaCult.
      >> > Fukuoka makes clear his opinion of PermaCult as inferior, and evidence,
      >> > more than just his opinion, for the details of that opinion are made clear
      >> > in there in Fukuoka sensei's writing & moreso elsewhere in Mollison's &
      >> > Holmgren's writing's naked wrong-headedness and their many continuing
      >> > unnecessary, stupid failures in their farming practices;
      >> > Also in other experienced farmer's experiences of trying PermaCult and
      >> > Natural Farming and comparing them by their results -their fruits! - i
      >> > recommend Jean-Claude Catry's great writings earlier here in this group for
      >> > a best example - just search this group.
      >> >
      >> > Feel free to ask here more detailed questions of us all on natural farming
      >> > practices, this politics stuff, the philosophy, etc.
      >> > Personally & professionally I have more experience than many PermaCult
      >> > official teachers i know of, such that i could teach PermaCult and make
      >> > money from that, but i choose not to like many other natural farmers choose
      >> > not make money from the dishonesty of ripping off naive students and selling
      >> > our souls & nature's soul for this greed & for ego - this is a
      >> > characteristic difference of Fukuoka-inspired natural farmers, from
      >> > non-natural farmers or from PermaCultists.
      >> > Many members of this group here like Raju, Karoubas & Panos, & others. can
      >> > teach from many years & decades of experience in Fukuoka natural farming,
      >> > way-far-more again than i can teach this.
      >> > So if you dive right in and become the-leader-of -yourself, (rather than
      >> > follower of PermaCult) and then you start asking us all here, detailed
      >> > practical questions, i'm sure there will come answers here from people you
      >> > can relate to, and even people who live near you or in similar habitats to
      >> > you, answers that are the most superiorly related to your habitat.
      >> > (Beware there has been some rat-bags here too, as in any internet arena,
      >> > they are the ones who vainly try to use this group for their own off-topic
      >> > or even contrary to Fukuoka-sensei sermons).
      >> >
      >> > with kind love for all life,
      >> >
      >> > Jase.
      >> >
      >> >
      >> > --- In fukuoka_farming@ yahoogroups. com <fukuoka_farming% 40yahoogroups. com>,
      >> > ezell wilson <jacare722000@ > wrote:
      >> > >
      >> > > Hello all,
      >> > >
      >> > > I have joined this usergroup a couple months ago and have simply perused
      >> > the messages here trying to learn what I can. I have read the One Straw
      >> > Revolution and am about to start on one of Fukuoka's other books. I live in
      >> > Houston and there is a local urban gardening group that offers classes in
      >> > permaculture that my wife and I are interested in.. I know next to nothing
      >> > about permaculture and would like to ask all of you here what are the
      >> > differences, if any, between permaculture methods and the methods espoused
      >> > by Fukuoka. Secondly, would permaculture be a place to start--with the idea
      >> > of eventually moving to Fukuoka methods, or is it best to just dive into it?
      >> > >
      >> > > Thank you in advance for your answers.
      >> > >
      >> > > Ezell
      >> > >
      >> > >
      >> > >
      >> > >
      >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >> > >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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