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8122Re: Red Clay for Seed balls

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  • langec56
    Nov 5, 2008
    • 0 Attachment
      By Mudballs does that mean the same ration for seedballs,3part clay
      or this case mud,2part undisturbed soil, and one part seed?




      -- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "Gloria C. Baikauskas"
      <gloriawb@...> wrote:
      >
      > When Michiko, his assistant, Michiko said that Fukuoka no longer used
      > seedballs, but instead was using mudballs.
      >
      > Gloria
      >
      > Dieter Brand <diebrand@> wrote:
      > >
      > > I think the idea of buying red clay for making seedballs was
      > probably floated during past discussion in this group. It is
      > unlikely that Fukuoka would have made such a suggestion. In
      > subsequent discussions this idea was further embellished by
      > speculations about nutrients in clay etc., thus departing ever
      > further from the basic ideas of natural farming.
      > > As far as I know, Fukuoka only talks about using "clay in powder
      > form", meaning clay from your own land. The only references to red
      > clay I can find in his books are the "red soil" (akatsuji) of the
      > subsoil that is left after the "black soil" (kurotsuji) of the
      > topsoil has eroded as a consequence of ploughing. He also talks
      > about "kabetsuji" (literally: wall soil), which is clay suitable for
      > rammed earth constructions. I have soil like that, so I know what he
      > is talking about. However, all three terms are used in the context
      > of improving soils that have been depleted as a result of
      > conventional agriculture.
      > > Perhaps we should lay to rest, once and for all, the myth of having
      > to buy red clay for making seedballs. Anyways, there is no need to
      > include nutrients or anything fancy in seedballs. If there is enough
      > humidity and air, seeds will germinate in a layer of mulch or even
      > between tissue paper without any soil or soil nutrients. The seeds
      > send out roots to find nutrients in the soil. The amount of
      > nutrients that can be included in the seedballs anyway is so small as
      > to be insignificant.
      > > Dieter Brand, Portugal
      > > PS: I hope Bob and others in the New Orleans region are save and
      > sound.
      > >
      > >
      > > --- On Mon, 9/1/08, brian kennedy <brian@> wrote:
      > >
      > > From: brian kennedy <brian@>
      > > Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Red Clay for Seed balls
      > > To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
      > > Date: Monday, September 1, 2008, 5:49 AM
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Hank, now that you mention it, that sounds right. Thanks.
      > >
      > > On another topic--there were some pictures in a book, I think it
      > was
      > > THE NATURAL WAY TO FARM, showing Fukuoka in Somalia, I believe. He
      > > was standing with a group on a hillside covered with dry grass. It
      > > reminded me of California's yellow hills, which excited me because
      > > I'm in California right now in similar terrain.. He seemed to be
      > > showing the people how to deal with such conditions. There was a
      > big
      > > green circle where they were working. It looked like they had cut
      > > back the grass, and watered to get the "weed" seeds to sprout. Then
      > > I think maybe they were going to cut them back before they could
      > > develop seeds as a way of creating an opportunity for other kinds
      > of
      > > plants they wanted to grow. I looked in the text t o try to find
      > out
      > > in detail what was being done but did not find an explanation. Does
      > > anyone know?
      > >
      > > Brian
      > > On Aug 31, 2008, at 5:10 PM, La Clarine Farm wrote:
      > >
      > > > Brian, I remember this quote too, but thought it was about using
      > other
      > > > types of clovers (didn't Fukuoka strongly recommend Ladino
      > clover?).
      > > >
      > > > But then again, maybe I mis-remember. ..
      > > >
      > > > -Hank
      > > >
      > > > brian kennedy wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > Hello All,
      > > > > I seem to remember Fukuoka addressing this matter in one of his
      > > > books
      > > > > explicitly in making a point about passing on his experience. I
      > > > don't
      > > > > have the book right now but I thought he said something like he
      > had
      > > > > arrived at red clay after many years of experimentation and
      > that if
      > > > > someone wanted to ignore his specific advice in this matter
      > anyway,
      > > > > well then go ahead but...
      > > > > On Aug 31, 2008, at 12:18 AM, BĂ©atrice Gilboa wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > > Hello Benjamin,
      > > > > >
      > > > > > >> I'd like to know a little bit more about bentonite clay vs
      > red
      > > > > > clay.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > - in short, Bentonite contains usualy more alumina, it has
      > better
      > > > > > colloidal property, maybe absorbs more water than red clay.
      > > > > > As potter, we use it mainly for its colloidal property in
      > glazes.
      > > > > > (You can probably easily find more data with google)
      > > > > >
      > > > > > >> I was under the impression that minerals (particularly
      > iron)
      > > > > > make the red clay red.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > - Yes, your impression is exact
      > > > > >
      > > > > > >> My soil is heavy clay, but it's grey.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > - If you've clay in your garden it would be more natural to
      > use it
      > > > > > to make your seedballs. To use it, take some, flatten it thin
      > > > on an
      > > > > > absorbant surface and let it dry, it will easilly become
      > powder.
      > > > > > Use this powder for your seed ball.
      > > > > > I"ve never tried, but at least you could trie to add
      > bentonite to
      > > > > > help you if you see your clay doesn't "stick" well on the
      > seeds
      > > > (if
      > > > > > it isn't pure enough).
      > > > > > But I think that the sticky problem of the seedballs is not
      > really
      > > > > > coming from the clay quality, but the process of making them
      > and
      > > > > > the proportions.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > >> Can you elaborate on the benefits of bentonite?
      > > > > >
      > > > > > - hoping I help you a bit.You can buy all sorts of clay
      > including
      > > > > > bentonite in any potter's supplier.
      > > > > > (or ask nice potter around your home if you don't need big
      > > > quantites)
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Plenty good seedballs that will explode green with the first
      > > > rain :-)
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Beatrice
      > > > > > Israel (I'm leaving for 2 months at the end of the week)
      > > > > >
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