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6542Re: [fukuoka_farming] Hay is enough!

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  • Nandan Palaparambil
    Oct 8, 2007
    • 0 Attachment
      Dieter,

      Thank you so much for the excellent
      answers/discussions and that also you manage with slow
      internet connection.



      Regards,
      Nandan


      --- Dieter Brand <diebrand@...> wrote:

      > Nandan,
      >
      > Unfortunately, I cannot view slides because my
      > Internet connection
      > is too slow. I live in a remote region without
      > phone line and without
      > regular Internet access. I'm lucky if I can
      > receive and send text
      > messages.
      >
      > It is of course correct that the upper soil layers
      > where the bulk of
      > the root mass develops are the most important for
      > feeding a plant.
      > 9 inches is only a very rough figure, the actual
      > depth will depend
      > on the type of plant and on how "deep" your soil
      > is. Different plants
      > have very different root systems. The tap root
      > provides support,
      > especially in the case of trees, but that doesn't
      > mean that it can't
      > also have fine feeder roots that pull up nutrients
      > from the subsoil.
      > The growing tips of the root (the white roots) go
      > where they find
      > nutrients. In fact, there are plants that are
      > especially good at
      > pulling up nutrients from the lower soil layers.
      >
      > Another interesting question is: what do plants
      > eat? Since Justus
      > von Liebig, agriculture believes that plant cells
      > feed on chemical
      > substances (NPK + trace minerals) and that if a
      > soil is fed by
      > organic materials these living organisms first
      > have to be broken
      > down into minerals (mineralization) before plants
      > can absorb them
      > by ion exchange through the cell wall. There is
      > also the minority
      > view according to which plants can consume organic
      > substances
      > directly by transport of living organisms through
      > the cell wall
      > (endocytosis). The first view suits the
      > agrochemical industry,
      > the second could provide a basis and theoretical
      > framework
      > organic farming lacks at present.
      >
      > Dieter Brand
      > Portugal
      >
      > Nandan Palaparambil <p_k_nandanan@...> wrote:
      > Dieter,
      >
      > Please see the link
      > http://www.prayogpariwar.net/pubs_middle.htm and go
      > to
      > the slide show and slide number 45. Here it is
      > mentioned
      >
      > "In a plant, the absorption of nutrients is carried
      > out only by the active white roots. These grow only
      > in
      > the top nine inches. The rest of the root structure
      > primarily provides the support for the plant".
      >
      > Just wanted to validate this statement.
      >
      > Regards,
      > Nandan
      >
      > --- Dieter Brand <diebrand@...> wrote:
      >
      > > Nandan,
      > >
      > > I have no idea whether there are any commercial
      > > farmers in
      > > India using NF techniques and what kind of yield
      > > they obtain.
      > >
      > > Regarding the second part of your question. What
      > > happened
      > > in Fukuoka's case or in the case of the Norwegian
      > > gardener I
      > > quoted is that a new layer of organic matter was
      > > added to the
      > > soil surface every year, which adds up to a layer
      > > of humus-rich
      > > dark soil that becomes thicker and richer every
      > > year. It will
      > > take several years to obtain a layer of one or two
      > > inches
      > > because the volume of the mulch you apply will be
      > > much reduced
      > > after decomposition. If you start with very
      > > depleted soil you may
      > > want to apply one or two inches of compost covered
      > > by mulch
      > > as an initial soilbuilding means.
      > >
      > > Roots, even those of annuals, go of course much
      > > deeper than
      > > that. I don't have any exact figures at hand, but
      > > I seem to
      > > remember that the roots of some annuals can go as
      > > deep as
      > > 6 feet or more. The layer of humus-rich dark soil
      > > you are building
      > > will never become as thick as that even after 30
      > > years. But
      > > that doesn't matter, because the newly created
      > > topsoil will
      > > protect and enrich the soil beneath and enable
      > > roots to penetrate
      > > deep into the subsoil to scavenge for minerals.
      > >
      > > Dieter Brand
      > > Portugal
      > >
      > > Nandan Palaparambil <p_k_nandanan@...>
      > wrote:
      > >
      > > Dear Dieter,
      > >
      > > Fukuoka-san used to get 22 bushels to 29 bushels
      > of
      > > paddy from 0.25 acres which is 1760Kg to 2320Kg
      > per
      > > acre. This is achieved just using straw mulching
      > and
      > > crop rotation. Any one has information on the
      > yield
      > > using NF in Indian condition?
      > >
      > > I read in www.prayogpariwar.net that the roots
      > which
      > > looks for nutrition elements go upto 9 inches of
      > > soil. That indicates till the mulching happens
      > till
      > > this level we won't get the maximum productivity.
      > > Would like to know your valuable inputs on this.
      > >
      > > Regards,
      > > Nandan
      > >
      > > > Dear all,
      > > >
      > > > A little while ago somebody, I believe it was
      > > > Nandan from
      > > > India, asked about straw and whether it is
      > > > sufficient for feeding
      > > > the soil; some farmers had told him that straw
      > > > doesn’t contain
      > > > any nutrients, whatever that is supposed to
      > mean.
      > > > I think
      > > > I answered in a general way about the importance
      > > > of returning
      > > > organic matter to the soil.
      > > >
      > > > Today - it was raining in Portugal - I sat
      > indoors
      > > > devouring
      > > > some of the treasures on my bookshelf, when I
      > > > happened on
      > > > some more specific information regarding this
      > > > subject. I’m
      > > > reading Herwig Pommeresche’s “Humussphaere”
      > which
      > > > is
      > > > unfortunately not available in translation.
      > Herwig
      > > > Pommeresche
      > > > is in the tradition of H.P. Rusch, cofounder of
      > > > the bio-organic
      > > > school which, like Fukuoka, stresses the
      > > > importance of not
      > > > disturbing the soil. Rusch considers that the
      > > > aerobic and
      > > > anaerobic layers of the soil should not be
      > turned
      > > > upside down
      > > > as happens when a field is ploughed.
      > > >
      > > > Herwig Pommeresche claims that to feed the soil,
      > > > or the
      > > > edaphon part of it, it is better to return all
      > > > organic “waste”
      > > > directly to the soil surface rather than to
      > first
      > > > compost it.
      > > > He also states that straw is better than woody
      > > > mulch
      > > > and that green grass or hay is better than
      > straw,
      > > > which has
      > > > already passed some of its energy to the grain
      > it
      >
      === message truncated ===




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