Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

3939RE: [fukuoka_farming] acorns

Expand Messages
  • jamie
    Dec 23, 2003
    • 0 Attachment
      Hello everyone, I should make it clear that my acorn interest comes directly
      from J. Russell Smith's 'Tree Crops: A Permanent Agriculture'(originally
      published in 1929), but that his sources are those referred to recently by
      Francisco, the 'dehesa' practice of cork (Q. suber) and holm oaks (Q. ilex)
      to provide both 'cork and pork' sustainably.

      I can't unfortunately briefly summarise his comments as there are more than
      50 pages on oaks in the book and it does lack the practical farming detail
      hinted at by Francisco. Still, there are little gems like the following
      that, with some personal experience and other similar work that I've come
      across in tropical climates, temperate forest gardens and the notes of Marc
      Bonfils (who I learnt today is alive and well and living in Provence)
      suggest a strong lead for future work:

      "In some sections of Spain and Portugal, the young ilex trees are allowed to
      grow where they have by chance sprung up in the fields. Around and under the
      trees the machineless cultivation of wheat and beans, barley and hay, goes
      on just the same. This combination of crops gives a beautiful parklike
      landscape. The cultivation helps the oaks make acorns, and after the grains
      and other crops are harvested, the hogs are turned in to gather the mast

      As to the 'genetic' variability suggested by Stephen I think the 'sweetness'
      is a stable factor and the only selection needed is for taste (ie the oaks
      of acorns come true, AKA homozygous). This doesn't mean that there wont be
      some differences between parents and offspring, only that they wont be as
      variable as with some fruit. If you place 'ballota' oaks together you're
      likely to increase your chances of similar offspring but then you loose the
      genetic diversity for long term stability. For John's idea I'd suggest using
      'sweet' oaks from as many sources as possible to set the whole project in
      train and be around for the next several hundred years to ensure good
      selection. The acorns I'm offering come from a tree that is on communal land
      just a few metres from Souscayrous and is 'wild'. It's not too old and
      hasn't produced too many acorns yet (200-300 at a guess) - and no John,
      we're not too late as there were still many on the tree, or at least there
      were but the recent wind will have brought down many and it will depend on
      whether the herd of goats and sheep beat me to them tomorrow!

      As to Q. garryana, Smith says this: 'One tree noted produced five hundred
      pounds of acorns, another six hundred pounds. A third, rather small,
      produced two bushels. Crops occur at intervals of from three to four years.
      Fruit is frequently killed by frosts.' This is under forage crop and not for
      human consumption, though leaching would work.


      -----Original Message-----
      From: sinniss@... [mailto:sinniss@...]
      Sent: mardi 23 d├ęcembre 2003 16:47
      To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] acorns

      Hello all,

      I think the oak tree project is a wonderful idea. Some thoughts on this.

      From recent posts (thanks for these!), it looks as if selecting for
      "sweeter" acorns already has taken place, at least in parts of Europe,
      even though it is over a span of generations (as it would need to be)
      and the process isn't complete yet. This is good news, because the
      project needs that head-start.

      The difficulty, as I understand it, is that crossing two "sweet" oaks
      doesn't necessarily give you more sweet acorns from the next generation.
      Suppose there are a dozen different genes for tannin production. Unless
      the two trees in question are sweet because of the same gene, then when
      you cross them you are back to the standard level of tannin production
      (tree A was sweet because of it's unusual on gene 3, tree B was sweet
      because it is unusual on gene 8; when you cross them you get a tree that
      is typical at both genes). If I'm not explaining this well, perhaps one
      of the plant-breeding people on this list can say it a better. The point
      is that if you stay at it for a large number of oak generations you will
      get there, but it's not like breeding for non-bitter almonds (cyanide
      content in almonds is governed by fewer genes, or maybe just one). Ten
      plus years per generation of oaks, so this is a long term project. Worth
      it, though, in the end, and besides, even the less desireable acorns can
      be eaten if they are leached first.

      Tannins are indeed harmful in quantity, like anything else, and (though
      I've not seen it myself) it is possible make yourself sick with too many
      bitter acorns. Shuts down the digestive stystem, and hard on the kidneys
      too. That unpleasant taste is a warning worth heeding. Yes, some dilute
      tannin in your tea or your greens or whatever is fine, but those large
      quantities of tannins are there precisely to prevent the all the acorns
      from being eaten, whether by insects, pigs, or humans (otherwise, no
      next generation of oak trees). So, whether by treating the acorns or
      breeding the trees, you need to be eating a low tannin acorn meal to
      stay healthy if you want to make it a staple in your diet.

      Leaving the oak trees entirely to breed alone, without doing any
      selection, could lead back to bitter acorns. The tannins are there
      because they give the tree some advantage (or possibly they are there as
      a side effect of something else that gives the tree a survival
      advantage). Does this mean that the sweeter trees are the weaker trees?

      I'll check some of my local native oaks (Q. garryana) for edible acorns
      again, and if I find something interesting I'll let you all know
      (Jean-Claude, have you sampled any? there should be some in your area as
      well). Perhaps there are some better trees (better, that is, from the
      point of view of a human). Oaks are only a part of the climax forest in
      these parts, and a small one, so the sample size is small. Perhaps some
      Q. ilex imports will be necessary for a starting point instead;
      according to reference books they will grow here.

      I have another idea towards edible forests, but it belongs in another


      Yahoo! Groups Links

      To visit your group on the web, go to:

      To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    • Show all 14 messages in this topic