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13478Re: [fukuoka_farming] Re: Almond Tree ... planting in grass

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  • Nandan Palaparambil
    May 4, 2012
    • 0 Attachment
      Hi,

      In 'One straw revolution' chapter 'Farming among weeds', these statements are given..

      "In making the transition to this kind of farming, some weeding,composting or pruning may be necessary at first, but these measures should be gradually reduced each year. Ultimately, it is not the growing technique which is the most important factor, but rather the state of mind of the farmer."..

      Here plowing  is left out, so it looks like Fukuoka san was suggesting to avoid plowing altogether ??

      Recently read some portions of 'Fertility farming' by Newman turner which talks about experiences of no-till farming and how it gives results after properly building up the soil. These experiments happened in 1940's. There is a mention of 'Plowmans folly' in this book.

      This is available online - just search 'Fertility Farming'


      Regards,
      Nandan


      ________________________________
      From: Jason Wicker <jaywicker@...>
      To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Friday, May 4, 2012 4:47 AM
      Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Re: Almond Tree ... planting in grass


       
      Hello,
      I remember Master Fukuoka saying in one of his books that you may need to
      plow one last time to get things started. Once the process begins than the
      labor of plowing is over for good and you can enjoy nature and take a nap
      next year instead of turning the soil:)
      Jason from NJ

      On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 5:55 PM, John Kintree <jkintree@...> wrote:

      > **
      >
      >
      > We have almost a quarter acre of a back yard, mostly covered with grass
      > growing in extremely clay soil, for the house to which we moved about a
      > year ago. A month ago, I broadcast a mix of clover (5 lbs), birdsfoot
      > trefoil (2 lbs), and alfalfa (3 lbs) seeds across the grass. The seeds
      > cost about $84, including shipping and delivery. A day or two after
      > broadcasting the seeds, I mowed the grass. It rained several times in the
      > next few days; almost ideal conditions. Nothing came up. I think the
      > roots of the grass are just too dense and matted for much of anything else
      > get through to the soil.
      >
      > A couple of weeks after that, I got out my shovel, turned over the soil in
      > several 3 to 4 feet diameter patches around the yard, scattered clover
      > seeds ($5 for 1 lb from a local nursery) over these patches, and within a
      > week, had clover sprouting. It's looking pretty good by now.
      >
      > To test things more thoroughly, I spent another $32 to have 1 lb each of
      > the clover, birdsfoot trefoil, and alfalfa shipped from the original
      > supplier. Turned the soil in a number of patches around the yard,
      > scattered the seeds over those patches, and just one week later, I have
      > plants of all three types of seeds sprouting through the soil. I'm sure
      > Fukuoka-san was correct in his situation. In a different situation,
      > different methods might be needed.
      >
      > BTW, the purpose for growing green manure crops is to improve the soil
      > before planting nut and fruit trees maybe later this year or next spring.
      > Regards,
      > John Kintree
      >
      > --- On Thu, 5/3/12, Ruthie Aquino <ruthieaquino1@...> wrote:
      >
      > From: Ruthie Aquino <ruthieaquino1@...>
      > Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Re: Almond Tree and Apricot Tree nuts
      > To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Thursday, May 3, 2012, 4:32 PM
      >
      >
      >
      > Dear friends,
      >
      > I must thank Jason for taking time out from his busy schedule to post a
      >
      > comprehensive answer that is an eye opener.
      >
      > Kostas, thanks for the encouraging words. However as Jason said in his
      >
      > post the land is used to getting mowed and the roots of the grasses are
      >
      > matted. There are dandelions and clover and I think what is called
      >
      > plantain with long forked roots, but all the available empty space is
      >
      > covered with thick vegetation. I have so much green stuff that I wonder if
      >
      > the domesticated vegetable seeds stand a chance in the tall grass.
      >
      > Right now it looks so discouraging with all the right natural plants in
      >
      > what my formatted mind says is the wrong place for them.
      >
      > To think I have been looking forward to savoring some easy succes...alas!
      >
      > do-nothing agriculture doesn't turn out to be so simple.
      >
      > Jason recommended scything. I chopped off the tallest tops this p.m.
      >
      > ...after having found one of the last persons with a scythe in my
      >
      > neighborhood. Of course I could not see the seedballs so I must have
      >
      > trampled a number of them.
      >
      > Seems like natural farming is a tall order in an urban setting.
      >
      > It's nice to read Fukuoka sensei and dream.
      >
      > It is quite another thing to actually do what he did.
      >
      > Well...it took him years to actually succeed in applying to agriculture
      >
      > what he saw in a flash.
      >
      > Looks like I'm in for a long wait.
      >
      > Friends, I need your help to go on with this.
      >
      > I'm arguing with my husband, he says I should have scraped the land off the
      >
      > thick vegetation before planting the clover, but I said natural farming
      >
      > does no such thing. Maybe I should have followed his advice.
      >
      > What say you???
      >
      > best
      >
      > RUTHIE
      >
      > 2012/5/4 KONSTANTINOS <karoubas@...>
      >
      > > **
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Hi Ruth,
      >
      > > and congratulations on your project.
      >
      > > I have a few questions.
      >
      > > The weeds growing, you said are knee high - are they strong and heavy
      >
      > > (closely spaced) - in other words do you have a lot of biomass, or are
      > they
      >
      > > far apart - does the sun dry out the soil or is it well protected by the
      >
      > > "weeds"
      >
      > >
      >
      > > If you have good soil, full of organic material and "life" you will have
      >
      > > success. Do as our good friend Raju suggests - spread seed balls or
      > direct
      >
      > > seed and then level the weeds with an angle iron, then water well.
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Kostas
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, Ruthie Aquino <ruthieaquino1@
      > ...>
      >
      > > wrote:
      >
      > > >
      >
      > > > Hello Jason, hello all,
      >
      > > > Thank you for your encouragement, Jason.
      >
      > > > Now here's a question.
      >
      > > > For the first time this Spring I have thrown seed balls in what can be
      >
      > > > called a "big" urban lot of 300 square meters formerly cut grass area,
      > as
      >
      > > > opposed to last year's manageable 30 square meters of relatively
      >
      > > weed-free
      >
      > > > vegetable plot.
      >
      > > > Two weeks after the sowing the rains came and did not stop for another
      >
      > > two
      >
      > > > weeks. Day and night temperatures did not exceed 8°C.
      >
      > > > Now the rains have stopped and the night temperature is still around
      > 5°C
      >
      > > > while the day temperature is around 20°C, since yesterday.
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > My question is, what happens now that the weeds are knee high and the
      >
      > > > seedballs not all sprouted except for the radishes?
      >
      > > > There is a mixture of all kinds of seeds of common vegetables, and
      > adzuki
      >
      > > > (a first, I don't even know how it's cooked).
      >
      > > > Will the future sprouted seeds not choke in the tall grass?
      >
      > > > I still have to plant more tomaotes, plus some eggplants and melons,
      >
      > > > lentils, white beans, corn, and a pinch each of grains I was given
      >
      > > during a
      >
      > > > farm visit last Sunday.
      >
      > > > In my region all danger of frost is gone about mid-May.
      >
      > > > Do I cut the weeds, in doing so I will be stepping on the seedballs and
      >
      > > > seedlings?
      >
      > > > Please advise.
      >
      > > > Best
      >
      > > > RUTHIE
      >
      > > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > > > 2012/5/3 Jason Stewart <macropneuma@...>
      >
      > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > > > > Thanks friend Kostas, very much, for motivating words.
      >
      > > > >
      >
      > > > > i suppose you will be pleased to know that i also have many plants
      >
      > > > > directed seeded.
      >
      > > > > In Melbourne from my previous lifeóstarted 25 years agoódoing
      >
      > > ecological
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > > restoration in bushlands.
      >
      > > > > And in my nature farm with fruit trees and vegetables, since my late
      >
      > > > > father farmed it from 25 years ago, and many more direct seedings
      >
      > > since i
      >
      > > > > farmed it from 12 years ago, after my father died.
      >
      > > > > In my nature farm my Avocado trees are allóevery single oneódirect
      >
      > > seeded
      >
      > > > > only, and the two oldest ones are now about 9ñ10 foot too,
      >
      > > coincidently
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > > with yours.
      >
      > > > > And yes, Apricots do well, some direct seeded and/or self seeded,
      > now 5
      >
      > > > > years old and already about 20 foot high but still thin growing
      > amongst
      >
      > > > > taller natural Acacia mearnsii trees,
      >
      > > > > there in far eastern Victoria, S.E. Australia, warm temperate climate
      >
      > > with
      >
      > > > > no snow and little in the way of frosts ñat the most extreme frost
      > to
      >
      > > -8 C.
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > >
      >
      > > > > i have successfully direct seeded many vegetables (not even needing
      > the
      >
      > > > > use of seed balls):
      >
      > > > > Buckwheat (most notably!)
      >
      > > > > Grain Amaranth (most notably! from central & south America)
      >
      > > > > Quinoa (most notably! from Bolivia)
      >
      > > > > Sweet Corn
      >
      > > > > Mung Beans
      >
      > > > > Carrots
      >
      > > > > Alfalfa
      >
      > > > > Fenugreek
      >
      > > > > Bok Choi
      >
      > > > > Snow Peas
      >
      > > > > Cucumbers
      >
      > > > > Watermelons
      >
      > > > > Beetroots
      >
      > > > > Tomatoes
      >
      > > > > Capsicums
      >
      > > > > Zucchini
      >
      > > > > Button Squash
      >
      > > > > etcetera
      >
      > > > > Native Bulbine lilies (edible).
      >
      > > > > etcetera
      >
      > > > >
      >
      > > > > Natural self seeding of:
      >
      > > > > Asparagus
      >
      > > > > Locally native Acacia mearnsii ñmany thousands of plants.
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > > Apricots
      >
      > > > > Nectarines
      >
      > > > > Peaches
      >
      > > > > A little of previous year's Buckwheat and Amaranth crops (commercial
      >
      > > > > farmers refer to as volunteers)
      >
      > > > > etcetera
      >
      > > > >
      >
      > > > > And my direct sowing of tubers/corms/bulbs/... of:
      >
      > > > > Garlic
      >
      > > > > Jerusalem artichokes
      >
      > > > > etcetera
      >
      > > > >
      >
      > > > > As a green thumb person since i was 13 years old, in my then teenager
      >
      > > > > cooperative relationship with the Melbourne Botanical Gardens
      >
      > > propagating
      >
      > > > > rainforest plant species in my mother's home garden;
      >
      > > > > i see no reason at all any more these days to sow seeds in pots.
      >
      > > > > Personally i have enough practical experienceóover 25 yearsówith
      >
      > > plants
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > > growing themselves well in my plant propagation practises,
      >
      > > > > to nowadays be able to successfully predict the direct field seeding
      >
      > > > > requirements of many temperate climate plant species, for their
      >
      > > germination
      >
      > > > > and (self-)establishment as strong plants.
      >
      > > > > In any members of this group who have a background growing up in
      >
      > > farming
      >
      > > > > and in nature i think it is fair that, and i think we should, take it
      >
      > > for
      >
      > > > > granted that these kind of people already have genuine practical
      >
      > > experience
      >
      > > > > and 'green thumbs' (more or less).
      >
      > > > >
      >
      > > > > My point of view is:
      >
      > > > > Of course late Fukuoka Masanobu sensei is right about direct seeding
      >
      > > and
      >
      > > > > much more.
      >
      > > > >
      >
      > > > >
      >
      > > > > Let's (Let us) all feel greatly encouraged!!! ñ
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > > my meaning of all the above information is to greatly increase the
      >
      > > > > encouragement of all of us members of this group,
      >
      > > > > to have a go to implement, firstly without any questioning, late
      >
      > > Fukuoka
      >
      > > > > Masanobu sensei's expert and long experience, worldwide.
      >
      > > > > Then later secondarily, or if failures arise, start questioning
      >
      > > itólate
      >
      > > > > Fukuoka Masanobu sensei's waysóand more soómore importantlyóstart
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > > questioning each of our personal biases, mistaken awarenesses of,
      >
      > > mistaken
      >
      > > > > informations about, interpretation of, misperceptions of, late
      > Fukuoka
      >
      > > > > Masanobu sensei's ways.
      >
      > > > > Over the last 10 years of my involvement in Fukuoka farming including
      >
      > > this
      >
      > > > > group:
      >
      > > > > Virtually every time i've ever heard of people (in this group and
      >
      > > > > elsewhere), worldwide, failing in their trying to implement late
      >
      > > Fukuoka
      >
      > > > > Masanobu sensei's ways,
      >
      > > > > it has been to me very easy to explain their failures by their own
      >
      > > > > mistaken awarenesses and/or mistaken informations about his ways, and
      >
      > > > > cannot be explained by any proposed failure(s) of nature, itself, nor
      >
      > > of
      >
      > > > > late Fukuoka Masanobu sensei's ways and awareness of nature.
      >
      > > > > Nature works (by itself, of course. Regardless of our egos!)!
      >
      > > > >
      >
      > > > > Firstly,
      >
      > > > > Let's (Let us) all (all newcomers) 'give it a try, directly' and
      >
      > > exactly
      >
      > > > > in the way late Fukuoka Masanobu sensei means it to be practised (ie.
      >
      > > > > really faithfully),
      >
      > > > > without inserting any of our own biases. (ie. newcomers: try
      > something
      >
      > > > > different, being his ways, if you're not already 'biased' in the same
      >
      > > way
      >
      > > > > as he is: aligned (with nature)).
      >
      > > > >
      >
      > > > >
      >
      > > > > Jason Stewart
      >
      > > > > --currently in Cairns, Bama country, The Wet Tropics of far north
      >
      > > > > Queensland.
      >
      > > > > --Openly accepting of (my) membership of, my part within, nature.
      >
      > > > >
      >
      > > > >
      >
      > > > >
      >
      > > > > On 02/05/2012, at 2:50 PM, KONSTANTINOS wrote:
      >
      > > > >
      >
      > > > > > Thanks Jason
      >
      > > > > > I will keep it in mind - I will look for it - If jujube is readily
      >
      > > > > available to you from trees in your area, may be you can try to see
      > if
      >
      > > they
      >
      > > > > grow without any assistance, and then report back.
      >
      > > > > > Its simple - just place 4 -5 stones in the ground and make a note
      > to
      >
      > > > > look at them in a year or so.
      >
      > > > > >
      >
      > > > > > I have trees growing from seed in my farm that are 9 feet tall -
      > they
      >
      > > > > are very strong, as they have grown without any watering or care.
      >
      > > > > > Fukuoka -San was right about seed grown trees.
      >
      > > > > >
      >
      > > > > > Kostas
      >
      > > > > >
      >
      > > > > > --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, Jason Stewart
      > <macropneuma@>
      >
      > > > > wrote:
      >
      > > > > > >
      >
      > > > > > > Dear friend Kostas,
      >
      > > > > > >
      >
      > > > > > > One additional fruit tree species that immediately comes to my
      > mind
      >
      > > > > from desert like conditions in east Asia, which you may not have
      >
      > > considered
      >
      > > > > is:
      >
      > > > > > > Jujube (sometimes jujuba),
      >
      > > > > > > red date, Chinese date, Korean date, or Indian date
      >
      > > > > > > _Ziziphus_zizyphus_
      >
      > > > > > >
      >
      > > > > > > i love to eat the very sweet AND very healthy (?even medicinal
      >
      > > food?)
      >
      > > > > dates kind of fruit---buying them in Asian and wholefood shops here
      > in
      >
      > > > > Australia.
      >
      > > > > > >
      >
      > > > > > > i'm sorry that as yet i haven't got experience to share of
      > growing
      >
      > > > > them myself.
      >
      > > > > > > i have heard from people who have them growing and that they can
      > be
      >
      > > > > grown in deserts,
      >
      > > > > > > as they are naturally ((r)evolutionarily) adapted to these desert
      >
      > > > > regions as their natural home.
      >
      > > > > > >
      >
      > > > > > > Some salient quick quotations from Wikipedia:
      >
      > > > > > > ‚Ü'„ÄÄhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jujube
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > > > > "
      >
      > > > > > > Jujube was domesticated in South Asia by 9000 BCE.[5] Over 400
      >
      > > > > cultivars have been selected.
      >
      > > > > > > The tree tolerates a wide range of temperatures and rainfall,
      >
      > > though
      >
      > > > > it requires hot summers and sufficient water for acceptable fruiting.
      >
      > > > > Unlike most of the other species in the genus, it tolerates fairly
      > cold
      >
      > > > > winters, surviving temperatures down to about ∠'15 °C (5
      >
      > > °F). This
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > > enables the jujube to grow in the mountain desert habitats, provided
      >
      > > there
      >
      > > > > is access to underground water through the summer. The species
      >
      > > Z.zizyphus
      >
      > > > > grows in cooler regions of Asia. Five or more other species of
      >
      > > Ziziphus are
      >
      > > > > widely distributed in milder climates to hot deserts of Asia and
      >
      > > Africa.
      >
      > > > > (ref. S. Chaudhary. Rhamnaceae in : S. Chaudhary (Edit.). Flora of
      > the
      >
      > > > > Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. Vol II(Part One) 2001.
      >
      > > > > > >
      >
      > > > > > > Its precise natural distribution is uncertain due to extensive
      >
      > > > > cultivation, but is thought to be in southern Asia, between Lebanon,
      >
      > > Iran,
      >
      > > > > Pakistan, India,Bangladesh, Nepal (called as Bayar), the Korean
      >
      > > peninsula,
      >
      > > > > and southern and central China, and also southeastern Europe though
      >
      > > more
      >
      > > > > likely introduced there.
      >
      > > > > > >
      >
      > > > > > > It is a small deciduous tree or shrub reaching a height of
      >
      > > 5‚Ä"10 m,
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > > usually with thorny branches. The leaves are shiny-green,
      > ovate-acute,
      >
      > > > > 2‚Ä"7-cm wide and 1‚Ä"3-cm broad, with three conspicuous veins
      >
      > > at the base,
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > > and a finely toothed margin. The flowers are small, 5-mm wide, with
      >
      > > five
      >
      > > > > inconspicuous yellowish-green petals. The fruit is an edible oval
      > drupe
      >
      > > > > 1.5‚Ä"3-cm deep; when immature it is smooth-green, with the
      >
      > > consistency and
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > > taste of an apple, maturing brown to purplish-black and eventually
      >
      > > > > wrinkled, looking like a small date. There is a single hard stone
      >
      > > similar
      >
      > > > > to an olive stone.
      >
      > > > > > > "
      >
      > > > > > >
      >
      > > > > > > Here in Australia they are sold as the common name Chinese Dates.
      >
      > > > > > >
      >
      > > > > > >
      >
      > > > > > > Biggest best true nature with all of you,
      >
      > > > > > >
      >
      > > > > > > Jason Stewart
      >
      > > > > > > --currently in Cairns, Bama country, The Wet Tropics of far north
      >
      > > > > Queensland.
      >
      > > > > > > --Openly accepting of (my) membership of, my part within, nature.
      >
      > > > > > >
      >
      > > > > > > On 01/05/2012, at 1:25 AM, KONSTANTINOS wrote:
      >
      > > > > > >
      >
      > > > > > > > Thanks Ruthie
      >
      > > > > > > > I will definitely try wild peach - if I can find stones of wild
      >
      > > > > peach - a company in Italy (florsilva) sells stones of what it
      >
      > > describes as
      >
      > > > > wild peach tree - I may try them if I have to.
      >
      > > > > > > >
      >
      > > > > > > > The cost of placing a stone/nut in the ground is minuscule in
      >
      > > > > comparison to buying a young tree and watering it for a year or two.
      >
      > > > > > > >
      >
      > > > > > > > I hope these trees (almond, apricot, wild peach and maybe
      >
      > > nectarine)
      >
      > > > > will be tried in desert like conditions - like southern Greece ( I
      > will
      >
      > > > > definitely try them), Arizona/Texas, Palestine/Israel and the desert
      >
      > > like
      >
      > > > > places of India.
      >
      > > > > > > >
      >
      > > > > > > > Again its important to properly collect seeds - store bought
      >
      > > fruit
      >
      > > > > is not suitable, because they cut the fruits prematurely and store
      >
      > > them in
      >
      > > > > refrigerators, so the stones/nuts do not germinate
      >
      > > > > > > >
      >
      > > > > > > > Kostas
      >
      > > > > > > >
      >
      > > > > > > > --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, Ruthie Aquino
      >
      > > > > <ruthieaquino1@> wrote:
      >
      > > > > > > > >
      >
      > > > > > > > > Hello Kostas,
      >
      > > > > > > > > In my experience, wild peach also grows without any kind of
      >
      > > care.
      >
      > > > > Just
      >
      > > > > > > > > throw the stone after eating.
      >
      > > > > > > > > Since I am still bound by my old fears engendered by
      > scientific
      >
      > > > > farming, my
      >
      > > > > > > > > first experiment was to put the stones in a pot with earth.
      >
      > > They
      >
      > > > > grew, of
      >
      > > > > > > > > course. So I tried the same thing with red peach last summer,
      >
      > > that
      >
      > > > > grew of
      >
      > > > > > > > > course.
      >
      > > > > > > > > Now those tiny trees are planted in the ground. I use the
      > young
      >
      > > > > leaves to
      >
      > > > > > > > > flavor a delicious liquor. I noticed however that this year
      >
      > > which
      >
      > > > > is very
      >
      > > > > > > > > rainy the leaves curl and blister. I think peach doesn't like
      >
      > > rain.
      >
      > > > > > > > > The friend who gave me the red peaches got them from a
      >
      > > tree...that
      >
      > > > > grew
      >
      > > > > > > > > from a stone she left on the ground. Now hers is a tall tree
      >
      > > but
      >
      > > > > rather
      >
      > > > > > > > > thin because it is not watered or fertilized, but we don't
      >
      > > care,
      >
      > > > > do we? We
      >
      > > > > > > > > just want some nice fruit.
      >
      > > > > > > > > Happy n-farming.
      >
      > > > > > > > > RUTHIE
      >
      > > > > > > > >
      >
      > > > > > > > > 2012/4/30 KONSTANTINOS <karoubas@>
      >
      > > > > > > > >
      >
      > > > > > > > > > **
      >
      > > > > > > > > >
      >
      > > > > > > > > >
      >
      > > > > > > > > > I have in the past discussed the strength/virtues of the
      >
      > > Almond
      >
      > > > > tree
      >
      > > > > > > > > > in reforestation efforts - how without watering or any care
      >
      > > an
      >
      > > > > almond nut
      >
      > > > > > > > > > buried in the ground will produce a tree even in arid -
      >
      > > desert
      >
      > > > > like
      >
      > > > > > > > > > conditions. To me this amazing - a person can devote an
      > hour
      >
      > > of
      >
      > > > > his/her
      >
      > > > > > > > > > life and create a mini forest using almond nuts. Care of
      >
      > > course
      >
      > > > > must be
      >
      > > > > > > > > > taken to collect nuts from healthy and disease free trees -
      >
      > > not
      >
      > > > > to old or
      >
      > > > > > > > > > young - etc etc.
      >
      > > > > > > > > >
      >
      > > > > > > > > > To the almond tree, I think we can add the apricot tree -
      > it
      >
      > > has
      >
      > > > > the same
      >
      > > > > > > > > > abilities - I have been placing apricot nuts in different
      >
      > > places
      >
      > > > > and
      >
      > > > > > > > > > without care they do well and grow small trees.
      >
      > > > > > > > > >
      >
      > > > > > > > > > I hope other volunteers will try this in arid/barren places
      >
      > > and
      >
      > > > > report
      >
      > > > > > > > > > back on the results. Also if you have any experience with
      >
      > > other
      >
      > > > > trees that
      >
      > > > > > > > > > have the same characteristics please let us know.
      >
      > > > > > > > > >
      >
      > > > > > > > > > Kostas
      >
      > > > > > > > > >
      >
      > > > > > > > > >
      >
      > > > > > > > > >
      >
      > > > > > > > >
      >
      > > > > > > > >
      >
      > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      > > > > > > > >
      >
      > > > > > > >
      >
      > > > > > > >
      >
      > > > > > >
      >
      > > > > > >
      >
      > > > > > >
      >
      > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      > > > > > >
      >
      > > > > >
      >
      > > > > >
      >
      > > > >
      >
      > > > >
      >
      > > > >
      >
      > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      > > > >
      >
      > > > >
      >
      > > > >
      >
      > > > > ------------------------------------
      >
      > > > >
      >
      > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      > > > >
      >
      > > > >
      >
      > > > >
      >
      > > > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > h
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >

      --
      Thanks and all the best,
      Jason

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