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THIS IS LYNN, ABOUT CAROLYN'S CONDITION

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  • lynnredcat10
    TO ALL, THIS IS LYNN, KNOWN TO OTHERS AS LYNNYRD (WHICH IS MY REAL NAME). I AM WRITING TO YOU ON BEHALF OF CAROLYN. JANET WAS ABSOLUTELY CORRECT IN WHAT SHE
    Message 1 of 10 , Oct 7, 2002
      TO ALL,
      THIS IS LYNN, KNOWN TO OTHERS AS LYNNYRD (WHICH IS MY REAL NAME). I
      AM WRITING TO YOU ON BEHALF OF CAROLYN. JANET WAS ABSOLUTELY CORRECT
      IN WHAT SHE SAID. SOUTHLADOGS, IM SORRY, BUT THIS TIME YOU WERE
      WRONG. CAROLYN'S SYMPTOMS CAME ON WITHIN THREE DAYS AND SHE COULD
      NOT MAKE IT ALL THE WAY OUT THERE TO SEE YOUR RECOMMENDED DR. DUE TO
      THE FACT THAT IT HAD BECOME AN EMERGENCY SITUATION AND SHE NEEDED
      MEDICAL ATTENTION IMMEDIATELY AND THE FACT THAT WE ARE OVER AN HOUR
      AWAY. BUT FOR THE RECORD, SHE DID TRY FASTING--FOR A WEEK
      STRAIGHT. SHE DID TRY TO LIE STILL BUT THE SEVERE PAIN AND HIGH
      FEVER WOULDNT EVEN ALLOW HER TO DO THAT. SHE MOANED AND ROLLED
      AROUND IN PAIN. SHE TRIED LISTENING TO YOU BUT HER APPENDIX RUPTURED
      AND NOW SHE'S DEAD! SHE REFUSED TO GO IN, EVEN WHEN SHE WAS THROWING
      UP BUCKETS, WHEN SHE WAS DYING, SHE REFUSED, SAYING THAT IF SHE JUST
      LETS THE INFLAMMATION CONTINUE THAT SHE WOULD BE FINE. BY THE TIME
      WE GOT HER THERE, HER ENTIRE SYSTEM HAD SHUT DOWN. SHE'S DEAD, DO
      YOU HEAR ME???!!!!!! AND I FEEL FREAKING GUILTY BECAUSE I DIDNT DO
      SOMETHING ABOUT IT SOONER!!! BECAUSE I DIDNT STEP IN AND TELL YOU TO
      STOP PLAYING WITH PEOPLE'S LIVES AND STOP FILLING THIER HEADS WITH
      CRAP LIKE THIS AND NOW, I SIT HERE, IN TEARS AND MY BEST FRIEND IS
      DEAD ALL BECAUSE SHE LISTENED TO YOU!!! JANET, YOU WERE ABSOLUTELY
      CORRECT! I DONT REALLY KNOW IF THAT DOCTOR COULD HAVE HELPED HER IF
      SHE HAD GOTTEN THERE IN TIME, I REALLY DONT KNOW! I TRIED TO GET HER
      TO GO IN, I TRIED TO GET HER TO HAVE IT CHECKED OUT AND SHE SAID SHE
      READ SOUTHLADOG'S EMAIL AND THAT SHE KNEW IF SHE JUST LISTENED TO
      HER, THAT SHE WOULD BE OKAY. TO HELL WITH ALL OF IT!!!!!! I'VE HAD
      IT WITH ALL THE SHIT SHE PROMOTES, I'VE HAD IT WITH HER ADVICE!
      CAROLYN'S GONE BECAUSE OF HER ADVICE AND IF ANY OF YOU ARE SMART,
      MAYBE YOU WILL LEARN A LESSON FROM WHAT JUST HAPPENED HERE AND STOP
      FOLLOWING HER LIKE A BUNCH OF SHEEP AND REALIZE SHE DOESN'T KNOW
      EVERYTHING. NO ONE SHOULD FOLLOW ALONG BLINDLY AND JUST LET PEOPLE
      CONVINCE THEM THAT EVERYTHING THEY SAY IS GOSPEL. I CANT BELIEVE
      THIS HAS HAPPENED!!!!!!!! IM SO DAMN ANGRY WITH YOU RIGHT NOW!!!!
      IM GRIEVEING TERRIBLY!!! CAN ANY OF YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT IM FEELING
      AT ALL??? CAN ANY OF YOU GRASP ANY CONCEPT OF WHAT IM TALKING
      ABOUT??? PEOPLE, I WATCHED CAROLYN DIE, LISTEN TO ME!!! I WATCHED
      HER FAST, I WATCHED HER TRY TO REST, I HELD HER WHILE SHE CRIED IN
      PAIN AND VOMITED PROFUSELY. I WATCHED HER TURN AN ASHEN GREY, THE
      SPARKLE LEAVE HER EYES,THE LIFE DRAIN OUT OF HER TINY BODY AND ALL
      BECAUSE SHE WANTED TO BE JUST LIKE SOUTHLADOGS!!! NOW I LIVE WITH
      GUILT BECAUSE I ALLOWED IT TO HAPPEN!!! YOU NEED TO STOP IT!!! DONT
      LISTEN TO THIS WOMAN ABOUT EVERYTHING!!! PLEASE!!! SHE TOLD CAROLYN
      NOT TO HAVE THE SURGERY AND TO FAST AND LIE STILL AND CAROLYN TOOK
      THOSE WORDS LIKE THE BIBLE AND SHE'S DEAD BECAUSE OF IT!!!!!!! I
      CANT STAND THIS ANYMORE, I HAVE TO LEAVE HERE. NOW I HAVE A FUNERAL
      TO PREPARE FOR. HER PARENTS HAVE BEEN ON A MONTHS VACATION. I HAVE
      TO LOCATE THEM AND TELL THEM THAT THEIR DAUGHTER IS DEAD. THEY DONT
      EVEN KNOW YET. THEY'LL BE DEVESTATED. ALL I CAN SAY IS THIS!
      SOUTHLADOGS!!! YEAH, LISTEN TO ME!!! IF YOU WANT TO DIE THE WAY
      CAROLYN DID, FINE, BE MY GUEST, BUT DO IT WITH DIGNITY AND IN
      SILENCE! DONT BRING ANYONE ELSE DOWN WITH YOU!!! I HAVE NO RESPECT
      FOR YOU AT ALL AND I DONT LIKE YOU AT ALL!!! YOU CAN GET ON YOUR
      HIGH HORSE, AND ALL YOUR MINIONS CAN DEFEND YOU AND PAT YOUR HAND AND
      BERATE ME AND CALL ME AN ASSHOLE AND A BASTARD BECAUSE OF MY
      FEELINGS, BUT SO BE IT! BY GOD WOMAN, LEARN SOME DAMN COMMON
      SENSE!!! AND TO THE REST OF YOU, IM SORRY, I DEEPLY APOLOGIZE IF YOU
      WANT TO CONTINUE TO LOOK UP TO THIS WOMAN FOR ADVICE AND COMFORT.
      AND IM SORRY TO YOU ALL IF YOU HATE ME NOW BECAUSE OF THIS. BUT A
      BEAUTIFUL, LOVING, CARING, WONDERFUL HUMAN BEING HAS PASSED AWAY
      BECAUSE SHE LISTENED AND WANTED TO BE JUST LIKE SOUTHLADOGS. SHE WAS
      CAROLYN'S IDOL, HER MENTOR AND SHE'S DEAD BECAUSE OF THAT. THAT
      MEANS SHE CAN NEVER COME BACK. I CAN NEVER SEE HER SMILE OR HEAR HER
      LAUGH AGAIN. THOSE OF US THAT LOVE HER AND KNEW HER WILL MISS HER. I
      KNOW NONE OF YOU REALLY KNEW HER, BUT SHE THOUGHT OF YOU LIKE AN
      ONLINE FAMILY AND LIKED EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU. I HAVE TO GO. I
      CANT DEAL ANYMORE....
    • Westgal4
      My heart is absolutely breaking . . . for Carolyn, for you, for her dear family... I am so very sorry to hear what has happened. I wish I could do something. I
      Message 2 of 10 , Oct 7, 2002
        My heart is absolutely breaking . . . for Carolyn, for you, for her
        dear family...

        I am so very sorry to hear what has happened. I wish I could do
        something. I wish I could take some of your pain away. I wish we
        could go back in time and things could be different.

        Words just can't express my feelings...

        with love,
        Janet
      • Greg Quinn
        Lynn, I am really heartbroken to hear about Carolyn. She was doing her best and she did very well. It is very unfortunate things had to turn out this way.
        Message 3 of 10 , Oct 8, 2002
          Lynn, I am really heartbroken to hear about Carolyn. She was doing her best
          and she did very well. It is very unfortunate things had to turn out this
          way.

          Unfortunately in this screwed up world of ours today, sometimes doing the
          wrong thing can make things right, which is sad, very sad indeed.

          Your family and Carolyn's family have my deepest blessings.

          Greg




          -----Original Message-----
          From: lynnredcat10 [mailto:lynnredcat10@...]
          Sent: Monday, October 07, 2002 2:55 PM
          To: fruitarians@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [fruitarians] THIS IS LYNN, ABOUT CAROLYN'S CONDITION


          TO ALL,
          THIS IS LYNN, KNOWN TO OTHERS AS LYNNYRD (WHICH IS MY REAL NAME). I
          AM WRITING TO YOU ON BEHALF OF CAROLYN. JANET WAS ABSOLUTELY CORRECT
          IN WHAT SHE SAID. SOUTHLADOGS, IM SORRY, BUT THIS TIME YOU WERE
          WRONG. CAROLYN'S SYMPTOMS CAME ON WITHIN THREE DAYS AND SHE COULD
          NOT MAKE IT ALL THE WAY OUT THERE TO SEE YOUR RECOMMENDED DR. DUE TO
          THE FACT THAT IT HAD BECOME AN EMERGENCY SITUATION AND SHE NEEDED
          MEDICAL ATTENTION IMMEDIATELY AND THE FACT THAT WE ARE OVER AN HOUR
          AWAY. BUT FOR THE RECORD, SHE DID TRY FASTING--FOR A WEEK
          STRAIGHT. SHE DID TRY TO LIE STILL BUT THE SEVERE PAIN AND HIGH
          FEVER WOULDNT EVEN ALLOW HER TO DO THAT. SHE MOANED AND ROLLED
          AROUND IN PAIN. SHE TRIED LISTENING TO YOU BUT HER APPENDIX RUPTURED
          AND NOW SHE'S DEAD! SHE REFUSED TO GO IN, EVEN WHEN SHE WAS THROWING
          UP BUCKETS, WHEN SHE WAS DYING, SHE REFUSED, SAYING THAT IF SHE JUST
          LETS THE INFLAMMATION CONTINUE THAT SHE WOULD BE FINE. BY THE TIME
          WE GOT HER THERE, HER ENTIRE SYSTEM HAD SHUT DOWN. SHE'S DEAD, DO
          YOU HEAR ME???!!!!!! AND I FEEL FREAKING GUILTY BECAUSE I DIDNT DO
          SOMETHING ABOUT IT SOONER!!! BECAUSE I DIDNT STEP IN AND TELL YOU TO
          STOP PLAYING WITH PEOPLE'S LIVES AND STOP FILLING THIER HEADS WITH
          CRAP LIKE THIS AND NOW, I SIT HERE, IN TEARS AND MY BEST FRIEND IS
          DEAD ALL BECAUSE SHE LISTENED TO YOU!!! JANET, YOU WERE ABSOLUTELY
          CORRECT! I DONT REALLY KNOW IF THAT DOCTOR COULD HAVE HELPED HER IF
          SHE HAD GOTTEN THERE IN TIME, I REALLY DONT KNOW! I TRIED TO GET HER
          TO GO IN, I TRIED TO GET HER TO HAVE IT CHECKED OUT AND SHE SAID SHE
          READ SOUTHLADOG'S EMAIL AND THAT SHE KNEW IF SHE JUST LISTENED TO
          HER, THAT SHE WOULD BE OKAY. TO HELL WITH ALL OF IT!!!!!! I'VE HAD
          IT WITH ALL THE SHIT SHE PROMOTES, I'VE HAD IT WITH HER ADVICE!
          CAROLYN'S GONE BECAUSE OF HER ADVICE AND IF ANY OF YOU ARE SMART,
          MAYBE YOU WILL LEARN A LESSON FROM WHAT JUST HAPPENED HERE AND STOP
          FOLLOWING HER LIKE A BUNCH OF SHEEP AND REALIZE SHE DOESN'T KNOW
          EVERYTHING. NO ONE SHOULD FOLLOW ALONG BLINDLY AND JUST LET PEOPLE
          CONVINCE THEM THAT EVERYTHING THEY SAY IS GOSPEL. I CANT BELIEVE
          THIS HAS HAPPENED!!!!!!!! IM SO DAMN ANGRY WITH YOU RIGHT NOW!!!!
          IM GRIEVEING TERRIBLY!!! CAN ANY OF YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT IM FEELING
          AT ALL??? CAN ANY OF YOU GRASP ANY CONCEPT OF WHAT IM TALKING
          ABOUT??? PEOPLE, I WATCHED CAROLYN DIE, LISTEN TO ME!!! I WATCHED
          HER FAST, I WATCHED HER TRY TO REST, I HELD HER WHILE SHE CRIED IN
          PAIN AND VOMITED PROFUSELY. I WATCHED HER TURN AN ASHEN GREY, THE
          SPARKLE LEAVE HER EYES,THE LIFE DRAIN OUT OF HER TINY BODY AND ALL
          BECAUSE SHE WANTED TO BE JUST LIKE SOUTHLADOGS!!! NOW I LIVE WITH
          GUILT BECAUSE I ALLOWED IT TO HAPPEN!!! YOU NEED TO STOP IT!!! DONT
          LISTEN TO THIS WOMAN ABOUT EVERYTHING!!! PLEASE!!! SHE TOLD CAROLYN
          NOT TO HAVE THE SURGERY AND TO FAST AND LIE STILL AND CAROLYN TOOK
          THOSE WORDS LIKE THE BIBLE AND SHE'S DEAD BECAUSE OF IT!!!!!!! I
          CANT STAND THIS ANYMORE, I HAVE TO LEAVE HERE. NOW I HAVE A FUNERAL
          TO PREPARE FOR. HER PARENTS HAVE BEEN ON A MONTHS VACATION. I HAVE
          TO LOCATE THEM AND TELL THEM THAT THEIR DAUGHTER IS DEAD. THEY DONT
          EVEN KNOW YET. THEY'LL BE DEVESTATED. ALL I CAN SAY IS THIS!
          SOUTHLADOGS!!! YEAH, LISTEN TO ME!!! IF YOU WANT TO DIE THE WAY
          CAROLYN DID, FINE, BE MY GUEST, BUT DO IT WITH DIGNITY AND IN
          SILENCE! DONT BRING ANYONE ELSE DOWN WITH YOU!!! I HAVE NO RESPECT
          FOR YOU AT ALL AND I DONT LIKE YOU AT ALL!!! YOU CAN GET ON YOUR
          HIGH HORSE, AND ALL YOUR MINIONS CAN DEFEND YOU AND PAT YOUR HAND AND
          BERATE ME AND CALL ME AN ASSHOLE AND A BASTARD BECAUSE OF MY
          FEELINGS, BUT SO BE IT! BY GOD WOMAN, LEARN SOME DAMN COMMON
          SENSE!!! AND TO THE REST OF YOU, IM SORRY, I DEEPLY APOLOGIZE IF YOU
          WANT TO CONTINUE TO LOOK UP TO THIS WOMAN FOR ADVICE AND COMFORT.
          AND IM SORRY TO YOU ALL IF YOU HATE ME NOW BECAUSE OF THIS. BUT A
          BEAUTIFUL, LOVING, CARING, WONDERFUL HUMAN BEING HAS PASSED AWAY
          BECAUSE SHE LISTENED AND WANTED TO BE JUST LIKE SOUTHLADOGS. SHE WAS
          CAROLYN'S IDOL, HER MENTOR AND SHE'S DEAD BECAUSE OF THAT. THAT
          MEANS SHE CAN NEVER COME BACK. I CAN NEVER SEE HER SMILE OR HEAR HER
          LAUGH AGAIN. THOSE OF US THAT LOVE HER AND KNEW HER WILL MISS HER. I
          KNOW NONE OF YOU REALLY KNEW HER, BUT SHE THOUGHT OF YOU LIKE AN
          ONLINE FAMILY AND LIKED EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU. I HAVE TO GO. I
          CANT DEAL ANYMORE....





          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        • fruitgirl
          dear lynn, i am so sorry about carolyn. i never met her, but we had a unique email connection and i will miss her very much. she was very lucky to have you
          Message 4 of 10 , Oct 8, 2002
            dear lynn,
            i am so sorry about carolyn. i never met her, but we had a unique
            email connection and i will miss her very much. she was very lucky
            to have you as a best friend to be there for her as you were. thank
            you for the love and support you endlessly gave her.
            her death is an unnecessary tragedy that you have every right to be
            furious over. please take good care of yourself during this time
            and get all the support you can.
            i know this is very little consolation, especially from a group that
            you or carolyn never met in person, but please know we are all sending
            you our love and condolences.
            love, autumn
          • southladogs
            Lynn, I am horrified to hear that Carolyn is dead. I hope that someday I can understand what happened. I urged that she contact Dr. Bernarr. She would not have
            Message 5 of 10 , Oct 8, 2002
              Lynn,

              I am horrified to hear that Carolyn is dead.

              I hope that someday I can understand what happened. I urged that she
              contact Dr. Bernarr. She would not have needed to go to L.A. or
              anywhere else. He would have consulted with her by phone. It is so
              important that the person be under supervision, that is why I urged
              that Dr. Bernarr be contacted. When one is undergoing a serious
              condition, and does not have a lot of info about health and fasting,
              one needs to be supervised. I did not tell her to fast, on her own. I
              told her to contact Dr. Bernarr. In all my messages responding about
              Carolyn's condition, I asked only that she contact Dr. Bernarr, and I
              asked it in each of those messages.

              I am so shocked and saddened by the death of that sweet young girl. I
              know you think I am on some kind of high horse, that I am a horrible
              person. But I will grieve for Carolyn forever. I do not believe she
              died from fasting, or from not having surgery. I don't have any way
              of knowing what happened. I hope that someday you will be able to
              tell me specifically what happened. Of course it can never bring back
              Carolyn, but it might help us all understand what happened. I mourn
              her loss, and I am deeply sad, very deeply.

              I can say, if only Carolyn had been supervised by Dr. Bernarr, if
              only I had known she was fasting on her own, if only I'd known she
              was going to the hospital, if only... But of course, it's all too
              late, and I am so sad and horrified about Carolyn's death. I know you
              blame me. I told her to contact Dr. Bernarr, in all those posts,
              perhaps I should have been more persistent, about emailing you and
              asking what was happening. I had wondered how she was all this time,
              and wanted to find out about her. I had no way of knowing what was
              going on, I figured she either was under Dr. Bernarr's care, or you
              had taken her into the hospital like you did before.

              I just cannot believe that sweet girl is dead. Even though I didn't
              know her except through her messages, she was so loving and innocent.
              I know you were very concerned for her, yet I know that you believe
              in medical intervention and a more conventional approach to diet and
              health, certainly, than I do. I have no way of knowing all that
              happened, and I hope that I can find out someday.

              I do believe her death could have been prevented, but not by surgery.
              I know you see it the opposite way. From all I've experienced with
              fasting, and from all I've read and heard from those with experience
              of fasting and appendicitis, and fasting in general, and those
              doctors who have dealt with fasting and appendicitis, it is
              physiologically impossible for the appendix to burst if someone is
              fasting, in bed, resting. The appendix bursts only if there is
              pressure on it, not from the inflammation. If someone is in bed at
              rest and fasting, the pressure is relieved, not increased. The
              pressure is lessened, and the inflammation becomes less acute, until
              it is finished. Before medical practice began to surgically remove
              appendices, they used to fast patients in the old days, only they
              called it starving them.

              I know you believe that surgery is what would have saved Carolyn. My
              experience, with my loved ones, has been that they all died from
              going to hospitals and having medical intervention. I believe they
              could have been saved if they had not gone to hospitals. And I know a
              lot of other people have said the same thing about their experiences.

              I cannot say anything that will make any of it better for you, or for
              any of us. I can only express my deep deep sadness to you. And
              especially to Carolyn, I do believe the spirit goes on, and her
              beautiful spirit is surely with the angels. I will grieve for the
              loss of that sweet lady forever.

              Zsuzsa


              --- In fruitarians@y..., "lynnredcat10" <lynnredcat10@y...> wrote:
              > TO ALL,
              > THIS IS LYNN, KNOWN TO OTHERS AS LYNNYRD (WHICH IS MY REAL NAME).
              I
              > AM WRITING TO YOU ON BEHALF OF CAROLYN. JANET WAS ABSOLUTELY
              CORRECT
              > IN WHAT SHE SAID. SOUTHLADOGS, IM SORRY, BUT THIS TIME YOU WERE
              > WRONG. CAROLYN'S SYMPTOMS CAME ON WITHIN THREE DAYS AND SHE COULD
              > NOT MAKE IT ALL THE WAY OUT THERE TO SEE YOUR RECOMMENDED DR. DUE
              TO
              > THE FACT THAT IT HAD BECOME AN EMERGENCY SITUATION AND SHE NEEDED
              > MEDICAL ATTENTION IMMEDIATELY AND THE FACT THAT WE ARE OVER AN HOUR
              > AWAY. BUT FOR THE RECORD, SHE DID TRY FASTING--FOR A WEEK
              > STRAIGHT. SHE DID TRY TO LIE STILL BUT THE SEVERE PAIN AND HIGH
              > FEVER WOULDNT EVEN ALLOW HER TO DO THAT. SHE MOANED AND ROLLED
              > AROUND IN PAIN. SHE TRIED LISTENING TO YOU BUT HER APPENDIX
              RUPTURED
              > AND NOW SHE'S DEAD! SHE REFUSED TO GO IN, EVEN WHEN SHE WAS
              THROWING
              > UP BUCKETS, WHEN SHE WAS DYING, SHE REFUSED, SAYING THAT IF SHE
              JUST
              > LETS THE INFLAMMATION CONTINUE THAT SHE WOULD BE FINE. BY THE TIME
              > WE GOT HER THERE, HER ENTIRE SYSTEM HAD SHUT DOWN. SHE'S DEAD, DO
              > YOU HEAR ME???!!!!!! AND I FEEL FREAKING GUILTY BECAUSE I DIDNT DO
              > SOMETHING ABOUT IT SOONER!!! BECAUSE I DIDNT STEP IN AND TELL YOU
              TO
              > STOP PLAYING WITH PEOPLE'S LIVES AND STOP FILLING THIER HEADS WITH
              > CRAP LIKE THIS AND NOW, I SIT HERE, IN TEARS AND MY BEST FRIEND IS
              > DEAD ALL BECAUSE SHE LISTENED TO YOU!!! JANET, YOU WERE
              ABSOLUTELY
              > CORRECT! I DONT REALLY KNOW IF THAT DOCTOR COULD HAVE HELPED HER
              IF
              > SHE HAD GOTTEN THERE IN TIME, I REALLY DONT KNOW! I TRIED TO GET
              HER
              > TO GO IN, I TRIED TO GET HER TO HAVE IT CHECKED OUT AND SHE SAID
              SHE
              > READ SOUTHLADOG'S EMAIL AND THAT SHE KNEW IF SHE JUST LISTENED TO
              > HER, THAT SHE WOULD BE OKAY. TO HELL WITH ALL OF IT!!!!!! I'VE
              HAD
              > IT WITH ALL THE SHIT SHE PROMOTES, I'VE HAD IT WITH HER ADVICE!
              > CAROLYN'S GONE BECAUSE OF HER ADVICE AND IF ANY OF YOU ARE SMART,
              > MAYBE YOU WILL LEARN A LESSON FROM WHAT JUST HAPPENED HERE AND STOP
              > FOLLOWING HER LIKE A BUNCH OF SHEEP AND REALIZE SHE DOESN'T KNOW
              > EVERYTHING. NO ONE SHOULD FOLLOW ALONG BLINDLY AND JUST LET PEOPLE
              > CONVINCE THEM THAT EVERYTHING THEY SAY IS GOSPEL. I CANT BELIEVE
              > THIS HAS HAPPENED!!!!!!!! IM SO DAMN ANGRY WITH YOU RIGHT NOW!!!!
              > IM GRIEVEING TERRIBLY!!! CAN ANY OF YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT IM FEELING
              > AT ALL??? CAN ANY OF YOU GRASP ANY CONCEPT OF WHAT IM TALKING
              > ABOUT??? PEOPLE, I WATCHED CAROLYN DIE, LISTEN TO ME!!! I WATCHED
              > HER FAST, I WATCHED HER TRY TO REST, I HELD HER WHILE SHE CRIED IN
              > PAIN AND VOMITED PROFUSELY. I WATCHED HER TURN AN ASHEN GREY, THE
              > SPARKLE LEAVE HER EYES,THE LIFE DRAIN OUT OF HER TINY BODY AND ALL
              > BECAUSE SHE WANTED TO BE JUST LIKE SOUTHLADOGS!!! NOW I LIVE WITH
              > GUILT BECAUSE I ALLOWED IT TO HAPPEN!!! YOU NEED TO STOP IT!!!
              DONT
              > LISTEN TO THIS WOMAN ABOUT EVERYTHING!!! PLEASE!!! SHE TOLD
              CAROLYN
              > NOT TO HAVE THE SURGERY AND TO FAST AND LIE STILL AND CAROLYN TOOK
              > THOSE WORDS LIKE THE BIBLE AND SHE'S DEAD BECAUSE OF IT!!!!!!! I
              > CANT STAND THIS ANYMORE, I HAVE TO LEAVE HERE. NOW I HAVE A
              FUNERAL
              > TO PREPARE FOR. HER PARENTS HAVE BEEN ON A MONTHS VACATION. I
              HAVE
              > TO LOCATE THEM AND TELL THEM THAT THEIR DAUGHTER IS DEAD. THEY
              DONT
              > EVEN KNOW YET. THEY'LL BE DEVESTATED. ALL I CAN SAY IS THIS!
              > SOUTHLADOGS!!! YEAH, LISTEN TO ME!!! IF YOU WANT TO DIE THE WAY
              > CAROLYN DID, FINE, BE MY GUEST, BUT DO IT WITH DIGNITY AND IN
              > SILENCE! DONT BRING ANYONE ELSE DOWN WITH YOU!!! I HAVE NO
              RESPECT
              > FOR YOU AT ALL AND I DONT LIKE YOU AT ALL!!! YOU CAN GET ON YOUR
              > HIGH HORSE, AND ALL YOUR MINIONS CAN DEFEND YOU AND PAT YOUR HAND
              AND
              > BERATE ME AND CALL ME AN ASSHOLE AND A BASTARD BECAUSE OF MY
              > FEELINGS, BUT SO BE IT! BY GOD WOMAN, LEARN SOME DAMN COMMON
              > SENSE!!! AND TO THE REST OF YOU, IM SORRY, I DEEPLY APOLOGIZE IF
              YOU
              > WANT TO CONTINUE TO LOOK UP TO THIS WOMAN FOR ADVICE AND COMFORT.
              > AND IM SORRY TO YOU ALL IF YOU HATE ME NOW BECAUSE OF THIS. BUT A
              > BEAUTIFUL, LOVING, CARING, WONDERFUL HUMAN BEING HAS PASSED AWAY
              > BECAUSE SHE LISTENED AND WANTED TO BE JUST LIKE SOUTHLADOGS. SHE
              WAS
              > CAROLYN'S IDOL, HER MENTOR AND SHE'S DEAD BECAUSE OF THAT. THAT
              > MEANS SHE CAN NEVER COME BACK. I CAN NEVER SEE HER SMILE OR HEAR
              HER
              > LAUGH AGAIN. THOSE OF US THAT LOVE HER AND KNEW HER WILL MISS HER.
              I
              > KNOW NONE OF YOU REALLY KNEW HER, BUT SHE THOUGHT OF YOU LIKE AN
              > ONLINE FAMILY AND LIKED EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU. I HAVE TO GO.
              I
              > CANT DEAL ANYMORE....
            • bhp355
              Hello all, I am new here. Somehow, I got an e-mail alerting me to what has happened. I have just spent the last hour reviewing previous posts on Carol s
              Message 6 of 10 , Oct 9, 2002
                Hello all,

                I am new here.

                Somehow, I got an e-mail alerting me to what has happened. I have
                just spent the last hour reviewing previous posts on Carol's death.

                I am sorry for all party's involved.

                I hope Lynn can go on and forgive himself, and realize this has
                happened to a lot of other good intelligent people. There have been
                many people harmed, and a few who have died as a result of the raw
                vegan/ fruitarian diet. These people are often highly intelligent
                and idealistic. It is the same situation with eating disorders, like
                anorexia nervosa. Good people die, and the families feel guilty.
                But, this whole subject is very difficult to deal with. It is really
                nobody's fault.

                Too, I feel for "southladogs". She was just doing what she thought
                was right. Many others have made the same mistake. I hope she can
                go on to forgive herself too.

                I know because I was a fruitarian, just like I have read here, for a
                number of years. Like Lynn, I was healthy and fit. I competed in
                bodybuilding contests, was over 200lbs, and very strong. After going
                on the fruitarian diet for a number of years though, I ended up at
                less than 110lbs and nearly dead. You could literally count every
                rib on my body, right through where my full chest used to be. In ten
                years since that time, I have still not recovered my health. I have
                many serious health concerns percipitated, in large part, from the
                fruitarian diet. Frankly, I was suprised to learn that anyone was
                still doing this sort of thing since the death of T.C. Fry. I met
                Mr. Fry, by the way, and fasted at his house and retreat for over two
                weeks once.

                Fortunately, with great effort (as my body was so weak and damaged),
                I was able to get my body to again tolerate meat and fat. Now, due
                to damage done to me by the fruitarian diet, meat and fat is about
                all I can eat (for the last 4 years). However, it has allowed me to
                live, gain a lot of strength, and some weight back. I am now a
                thin/normal 150lbs male.

                Before I was able to eat meat again, I could hardly stand. My legs
                would wobble on me just standing still. I couldn't even do one deep
                knee bend with even my own body weight. Now, eating meat and fat, I
                squat around 50lbs for 10 reps X 3 sets. I am not going to win any
                power lifting events by any means, but at least I can lift my foot to
                climb a stair now.

                I hate that Carol lost her life in this way. It is a tragedy.
                However, this is the way of humanity's path in reality. We
                experiment, try new things, sometimes we derive great benefit, other
                times we made grevious unforseen mistakes. It is just the way things
                are for man in this world.

                Again, I hope everyone can forgive themselves for not being able to
                see into the unknown. I still have to forgive myself for the same
                each day.

                For those still doing the Natural Hygiene/ Fasting/ Fruitarian thing,
                God bless you. I hope it goes well for you. You are certainly
                working to expand the bounds of human knowledge. However, I would
                warn you that, many excellent, intelligent, very disciplined and
                strong willed people have done the same before you; many were
                injured, and some have died. In addition, the scientific evidence
                against the vegan diet is continuing to mount. Early pioneers in
                this field, like Herbert Shelton, can be forgiven to a certain
                extent. The field of nutrition was in it's infancy during their time.
                We could not see as deeply into the body's mechanics back then. Now,
                however, I believe we can see biochemically exactly why this diet,
                which seems so logical from a gross comparative anatomy standpoint,
                actually does not work for most people over time.



                Best to you all, and again my sympathies,
                Zippy



                ==============================================================
              • Robert T Hara
                Lynn, I am horrified to hear that Carolyn is dead. I hope that someday I can understand what happened. ******WHAT!!!! YOU ACTUALLY SAY YOU HOPE SOMEDAY YOU
                Message 7 of 10 , Oct 9, 2002
                  Lynn,

                  I am horrified to hear that Carolyn is dead. I hope that someday I can
                  understand what happened.


                  ******WHAT!!!! YOU ACTUALLY SAY YOU HOPE SOMEDAY YOU CAN UNDERSTAND
                  WHAT HAPPENED!!!!!!!!Her appendix burst you MORON and THAT KILLS
                  PEOPLE!!!!!! This air you are totting now is despicable. You are really
                  out to lunch girl!! This letter SMACKS of backing out of the
                  responsibility that is yours and yours alone. YOUR STUPID, IGNORANT,
                  NARROW MINDED WAYS AND ADVICE COST THIS GIRL HER ****LIFE.*****


                  I am so shocked and saddened by the death of that sweet young girl. I
                  know you think I am on some kind of high horse, that I am a horrible
                  person.

                  *******No,,actually you are not a horrible person. You are a DANGEROUS
                  person. I quote the words from a friend of mine whom I shared this
                  horrible outcome with. I could not agree more,............

                  **If this had happened in the "real" world and not on the net, she
                  would be in jail for practicing medicine without a licence and murder
                  ...plain and simple.""

                  YES INDEED YOUR ASS BELONGS IN JAIL NOW AND DON'T YOU EVER FORGET IT.
                  YOU ARE DANGEROUS!!


                  I do not believe she died from fasting, or from not having surgery.

                  ********This is pitiful. NO IT'S RIDICULOUS!!!!!! You really need to go
                  have your head examined. She listened to you. You didn't do a thing for
                  her but give her bad advice for the entire time she was talking with you
                  on this list. You need to shut up with this stupidity and accept what
                  YOU HAVE DONE!!! You are one sick, ignorant, SHALLOW KNOW NOTHING
                  bitch!!


                  I don't have any way of knowing what happened. I hope that someday you
                  will be able to
                  tell me specifically what happened.

                  *********WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!! Her appendix BURST!!!! This has been going on
                  for years and for YEARS they do a SIMPLE operation and SAVE people's
                  lives. Poor Carolyn died a HORRIBLE DEATH of pain and torture because
                  YOU SOUTHDOGS are a FANATICAL arrogant and totally uneducated fool. That
                  girl would have gone to the hospital, had her appendix taken out, and
                  lived to a ripe old age if YOU had ONLY told her to go get the surgery
                  like most told her to do on this list. You are NOW trying to get out of
                  the guilt that is YOURS and YOURS ONLY for her DYING the way she did.
                  You knew she worshipped you and in that you became inflamed with ego to
                  the point of not seeing what WAS OBVIOUS!!!! You wanted her to be your
                  experiment,,,YOU TROPHY... and to prove you are RIGHT about all the
                  nonsense you spew forth on this list. Well she is DEAD now and you sit
                  here and cry,... "gee I would really like to KNOW WHAT HAPPENED SOME
                  DAY!!!! GOD are you really this disconnected???? Are you really
                  thinking this type of talk excuses what you did to this girl????????? YOU
                  ARE TWISTED to come OFF like this,............. just TWISTED!!!!


                  Of course it can never bring back Carolyn, but it might help us all
                  understand what happened.

                  ***********Here's a news flash Southdogs, Zsuzsa, or what ever your name
                  is. SHE HAD APPENDICITIS WHICH CALLS FOR IMMEDIATE
                  MEDICAL--**ALLOPATHIC**--ATTENTION. HER APPENDIX BURST BECAUSE **YOU**
                  GAVE HER BAD ADVICE AND TOLD HER TO NOT GET HER APPENDIX OUT. YOU SPAMMED
                  HER WITH INFORMATION ABOUT THE APPENDIX THAT DIDN'T HAVE A GODDAMN THING
                  TO DO WITH HER SITUATION AND SHE READ IT AND AS LYNN SAID BELIEVED IN
                  WHAT YOU SAID AS IF IT WERE OUT OF THE BIBLE OR SOMETHING. AND YOU HAVE
                  THE AUDACITY TO SIT HERE AND WRITE THE PEOPLE ON THIS LIST AND DECLARE
                  "IT MIGHT HELP US UNDERSTAND WHAT HAPPENED!!!!!!
                  gggggggggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr YOU ARE NO FREAKING
                  GOOD WOMAN,....YOU ARE NO FREAKING GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I FIND YOU
                  DESPICABLE, CHEAP AND ARROGANT TO THE POINT OF BEING DANGEROUS. PEOPLE
                  WHO KILL OTHERS,,BE IT WITH THEIR OWN HANDS OR **BAD ADVICE** THAT IS
                  GIVEN AS THE HOLY GRAIL OF INFORMATION ARE D-A-N-G-E-R-O-U-S.



                  I can say, if only Carolyn had been supervised by Dr. Bernarr, if only I
                  had known she was fasting on her own, if only I'd known she was going to
                  the hospital, if only...


                  **************These words which you are now spamming us with are the most
                  pitiful expressions of COPING OUT that I have EVER seen!!! You are
                  sick,...period,...end of story. I hope you all will take into account
                  this pitiful display of verbiage here and see exactly what has gone down
                  and what this person Southdogs is really all about.



                  I know you blame me.

                  **************WHO ELSE GAVE HER BAD ADVICE??? You have been giving this
                  girl bad advice since you have been talking to her and if one goes back
                  and reads the threads THAT IS OBVIOUS!!!!!!!! You should have been
                  chastised and she should have been put on the correct path. You just
                  killed this girl from day one with you fanatical ignorant self glorifying
                  nonsense.


                  I told her to contact Dr. Bernarr,

                  *************YEAH SO IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT RIGHT!!!!!!! Do you people SEE
                  this sick person's mentality here??????????? WHAT A COP OUT SHE IS
                  PRESENTING HERE!!!


                  perhaps I should have been more persistent,


                  ***********WHAT!!!!!!!!! Jesus,....If you had ANY CLUE you would
                  have,...but you don't so you DIDN'T. Hell when she was telling the list
                  that she was skin and bones, could see her shoulder blades sticking out,
                  had persistent diarrhea ---(which any moron knows dehydrates the
                  body)--and was puking, and mentioned she was only really eat the grass
                  in her front lawn,..DID YOU STEP UP AND SAY ********"WAIT A MINUTE THIS
                  IS NOT GOOD"???********HELL NO YOU DIDN'T. ONLY BROTHER MATT FINALLY
                  STEPPED UP AND SAID ""HEY GIRL EAT SOMETHING!!! "" YOU DID NOT!!! YOU
                  LED THAT GIRL DOWN A PATH OF SELF DESTRUCTION AND WHY??????? WAS SHE
                  YOUR GUINEA PIG TO TRY AND USE TO SHOW THE WORLD THAT YOUR IDEOLOGY IS
                  CORRECT?????????? GOOD GOD WOMAN YOU ARE SUCH A DANGEROUS PERSON AND NOW
                  CAROLYN IS DEAD AND YOU TALK THIS CHEAP TRIPE TO TRY AND RID YOURSELF OF
                  THE RESPONSIBILITY OF IT ALL.!! UNBELIEVABLE!!!


                  I had wondered how she was all this time, and wanted to find out about
                  her.


                  ***********OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH REALLY!!!!!!!!!!!! Is this why we DIDN'T
                  SEE you post EVERYDAY ASKING WITH LOVE AND CONCERN what was going
                  on,.........asking what was being done,.........staying on top of it
                  because you SHOULD have known the gravity of her situation. NO YOU
                  DIDN'T!!
                  SO THE ABOVE STATEMENT IS BULLSHIT JUST LIKE THE REST OF THIS PITIFUL
                  REPLY YOU HAVE POSTED. YOU GAVE HER YOU INFALLIBLE INFORMATION AND THAT
                  WAS THAT AS IF YOU HAD GIVEN HER ALL YOU COULD AND IT WAS UP TO HER TO
                  FOLLOW YOUR 100%,.. ABSOLUTE,... NOT GOING TO FAIL YOU ADVICE. GOD YOU
                  ARE DISGUSTING WITH YOUR FANATICAL WAYS AND YOUR SELF ABSORPTION.



                  I had no way of knowing what was going on

                  ***********MY GOD!!!!! YOU ARE SOOOOOOOOOOOO DANGEROUS AND DISCONNECTED
                  TO REALITY. SEEMS EVERYBODY BUT YOU KNEW EXACTLY WHAT WAS GOING
                  ON,..TRIED TO WARN/PERSUADE CAROLYN TO IGNORE """YOUR""""
                  ******ASININE******* ADVICE AND JUST SIMPLY HAVE THE APPENDIX TAKEN OUT.
                  YOU POSTED YOUR ADVICE AS IF IT WAS THE TEN COMMANDMENTS OR SOMETHING AND
                  LEFT HER HANGING. YOU REALLY DISGUST ME Zsuzsa,...AND YOU HAVE KILLED
                  CAROLYN. NO ACTUALLY THEY CALL THIS TYPE OF THING MURDER IN THE REAL
                  WORLD.

                  **********Her appendix was inflamed and ready to burst and you told her
                  to lie still and let the inflammation subside!
                  YOU ARE DANGEROUS SOUTHDOGS. YOUR ADVICE KILLS PEOPLE!!!!!! DO YOU HEAR
                  ME. YOU KILLED THAT GIRL YOU MORON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


                  I figured she either was under Dr. Bernarr's care, or you
                  had taken her into the hospital like you did before.

                  **********YOU FIGURED THIS AND YOU FIGURED THAT EH!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU
                  GIVE SOMEONE TOTALLY **BOGUS** INFORMATION AND THEN ******YOU
                  FIGURED***********!!!!!!!!!! YOU TOLD THEM TO STAY AWAY FROM THE
                  HOSPITAL AND THE OPERATION SHE SOOOOOOOO DESPERATELY NEEDED. SHE WOULD
                  BE ALIVE TODAY IF YOU HAD A SINGLE SOLITARY BRAIN OR A FREAKING OUNCE OF
                  ACTUAL COMMON SENSE IN YOUR WHOLE BEING!!!!!!!!!

                  I just cannot believe that sweet girl is dead. Even though I didn't
                  know her except through her messages, she was so loving and innocent.


                  **********THAT'S RIGHT AND YOU PLAYED GOD WITH HER INNOCENCE DIDN'T YOU
                  SOUTHDOGS!!

                  I know you were very concerned for her, yet I know that you believe
                  in medical intervention and a more conventional approach to diet and
                  health, certainly, than I do. I have no way of knowing all that
                  happened, and I hope that I can find out someday.

                  ***********THIS IS PITIFUL!!!! Your words here are sooooooooooooooo
                  disgusting but they bear witness to what you are all about!!!! YOU
                  SHOULD BE IN JAIL NOW FOR MURDER AS WE SPEAK. HOW DOES IT FEEL TO
                  PLAY GOD SOUTHDOGS????? HOW DOES IT FEEL TO KILL SOMEONE WITH BAD
                  ADVICE AND THEN DECLARE THE TRIPE YOU ARE TRYING TO PUT ACROSS HERE.
                  ooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I just don't know what happened. I hope I can
                  find out some day. GOD ARE YOU TWISTED!



                  I do believe her death could have been prevented, but not by surgery.


                  ************YOU ARE AN IDIOT PLAIN AND SIMPLE. YOU ARE A SPACE BISCUIT
                  EXTRODANAIRE.



                  it is physiologically impossible for the appendix to burst if someone is
                  fasting, in bed, resting.

                  ************YOU ARE A MORON PLAIN AND SIMPLE!!!!!!!!!!
                  I THOUGHT YOU SAID YOU DID NOT TELL HER TO FAST BUT BY THIS SENTENCE ARE
                  SAYING THAT THE ABOVE IS WHAT SHE SHOULD HAVE DONE,..WHICH IS WHAT SHE
                  DID BECAUSE ****YOU TOLD HER TO**** AND NOW SHE IS
                  DEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WELL SHE DID LISTEN TO YOU AS IF YOUR WERE GOD
                  AND GUESS WHAT???? SHE DIED YOU FREAKING MORON. YOU JUST DON'T GET IT
                  AND YOU JUST SIT HERE AND ACT LIKE YOU HAVE NO FAULT IN THIS WHAT SO
                  EVER. THIS IS THE MOST DISGUSTING THING I HAVE EVER SEEN AND HEARD IN MY
                  LIFE.


                  The appendix bursts only if there is pressure on it, not from the
                  inflammation.

                  **********YES,.......OK DR. Zsuzsa THIS IS WHAT YOU HAVE TOLD US BUT
                  SOMEONE JUST DIED BECAUSE THEY LISTENED TO YOUR ADVICE ABOUT THE APPENDIX
                  AND INFLAMMATION.

                  If someone is in bed at rest and fasting, the pressure is relieved, not
                  increased. The
                  pressure is lessened, and the inflammation becomes less acute, until
                  it is finished.

                  **********REALLY THEN WHY DID CAROLYN DIE LIKE A DOG IN THE BACK YARD
                  WITH EXTREME PAIN LIKE WE CAN'T EVEN IMAGINE IF THIS IS TRUE????
                  HUH????? I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!!!!!!!!!! GOD YOU DISGUST ME WITH YOUR
                  FANATICAL NONSENSE THAT HAS A-C-T-U-A-L-L-Y BEEN THE CAUSE OF SOME
                  ONES DEATH. Zsuzsa,.....YOU KILLED CAROLYN WITH YOUR GROSS STUPIDITY
                  AND RAGING ARROGANCE BUT YOU STILL TRY AND DEFEND WHAT YOU DID.
                  UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!! THERE IS A SWEET PERSON NOW MISSING FROM THIS LIST
                  THANKS TO *******Zsuzsa********* BUT SHE DOESN'T SEE HOW WHAT SHE DID AND
                  SAID HAD ************ANYTHING************* AT ALL TO DO WITH IT. I CAN'T
                  SAY THIS ENOUGH. YOU ARE A SPACE BISCUIT. YOU ARE DANGEROUS. YOU ARE
                  ONE SICK BITCH!!!!!!!!!!!



                  Before medical practice began to surgically remove
                  appendices, they used to fast patients in the old days, only they
                  called it starving them.


                  ************IN THE OLD DAYS PEOPLE DIED A HORRIBLE DEATH AS DID CAROLYN.
                  THAT IS *****HOW******* THEY FOUND OUT THAT THE APPENDIX RUPTURING
                  CAUSES POISON TO BE RELEASED INTO THE BODY. YOU NEED TO LEAVE THE
                  CONFINES OF YOUR SMALL LITTLE WORD WHERE ALL IS AS ONLY YOU WANT TO SEE
                  IT.

                  I know you believe that surgery is what would have saved Carolyn.


                  ************ AND YOU STILL DON'T!!!!!! YOU ARE CRAZY LADY. YOU ARE
                  ABSOLUTELY OUT OF YOU MIND!!!!!!!!!!!! ANYBODY THAT LISTENS TO A THING
                  YOU HAVE TO SAY IS CRAZY!!!!!!!!

                  My experience, with my loved ones, has been that they all died from
                  going to hospitals and having medical intervention. I believe they
                  could have been saved if they had not gone to hospitals. And I know a
                  lot of other people have said the same thing about their experiences.


                  ***********SHE HAD APPENDICITIS AND AN **OPERATION** WOULD HAVE SAVED HER
                  LIFE!!!!
                  ***********HELLO,....IT'S THAT SIMPLE!!!!!!!!!!!*******

                  ********YOUR FAMILY DID NOT DIE OF WHAT CAROLYN HAD NOR DOES THE FACT
                  THAT THEY DIED IN A HOSPITAL .........(IF THIS REALLY EVEN HAPPENED AND
                  IS NOT SOME TYPE OF BS. TO JUSTIFY WHY YOU GIVE OUT BAD LIFE THREATENING
                  ADVICE BASED ON NARROW MINDEDNESS AND TOTAL ILLOGICAL REASONING)......
                  BECAUSE OF SOME MEDICAL INTERVENTION MEAN THAT THIS WAS/IS SPECIFIC TO
                  CAROLYN'S CONDITION. YOU ARE TRYING TO BACK OUT NOW OF WHAT YOU DID AND
                  THIS IS NOT PRETTY. YOU ARE SICK AND TWISTED,...AND A GIRL IS DEAD NOW
                  BECAUSE OF YOUR LACK OF KNOWLEDGE AND YOUR GROSS STUPIDITY. DO YOU HEAR
                  ME,.............. ***SHE IS DEAD!!*** WHAT YOU HAVE SAID HERE IN THIS
                  P-I-T-I-F-U-L REPLY YOU HAVE SENT TO LYNN AND OTHERS HERE IS INCREDIBLY
                  INANE!!! YOU CAN NOT JUSTIFY WHAT YOU DID BUT IN YOUR MIND IT IS OBVIOUS
                  THAT YOU TAKE NO RESPONSIBLITY FOR THIS WHAT SO EVER. YOU ARE
                  SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO UNCOOL!!!!!!!!!!


                  And especially to Carolyn, I do believe the spirit goes on, and her
                  beautiful spirit is surely with the angels. I will grieve for the
                  loss of that sweet lady forever.

                  **********YES OUR SPIRIT DOES MOVE ON FOR THAT IS OUR TRUE SELF. BUT
                  MOST DIE NATURAL DEATHS NOT SOME AGONIZING TORTUROUS HORRIBLE PAIN
                  WRENCHING DEATH AT THE HANDS OF SOME SELF PROCLAIMED HEALTH GURU THAT
                  DOESN'T REALLY KNOW JACK.

                  NOW,............... ARE YOU NOW TAKING CREDIT HERE FOR HER BEING WITH
                  THE ANGELS???? YOU ARE NOT COOL,,YOU ARE DANGEROUS AND YOU WILL, AGAIN,
                  SOME TIME IN THIS LIFE,... CAUSE ANOTHER SEVERE PAIN AND MISERY AND EVEN
                  DEATH ***AGAIN*** BECAUSE OF YOUR FANATICAL SICK AND TWISTED HEADSPACE.
                  I'M NOT SO SURE OTHERS HAVE NOT ALREADY BEEN SEVERELY HURT BY YOUR
                  ARROGANT, POMPOUS, IGNORANCE.

                  I AM 50 YEARS OLD AND HAD THOUGHT I'D *****REALLY****** SEEN IT ALL.
                  YOU TAKE THE CAKE SOUTHDOGS. YOU REALLY HONEST TO GOD TAKE THE CAKE!!!!
                  I WILL JUST CLOSE THIS LETTER WITH THE QUOTE MY FRIEND SENT ME IN
                  LEARNING OF THIS SITUATION,..............

                  **If this had happened in the "real" world and not on the net, she would
                  be in jail for practicing medicine without a licence and murder ...plain
                  and simple.""

                  YOU INDEED **DO** SIT ON A HIGH HORSE OF YOUR OWN MAKING AND IT HAS
                  KILLED SOMEONE. YOUR ARROGANCE AND TOTAL LACK OF EDUCATION ON THE MATTER
                  OF HEALTH AND THE BODY HAVE BECOME OVERLY OBVIOUS!!!

                  TO ALL THAT COME HERE,...DO AS LYNN HAS ASKED. DO NOT LISTEN TO THIS
                  PERSON SOUTHDOGS. SHE HAS NO MORAL CHARACTER AND TALKS OF THINGS SHE
                  KNOWS NOTHING OF. AND SHE HAS NOW ENDED A GIRLS LIFE WITH HER MORONIC
                  FANATICAL SELF SERVING STUPIDITY.

                  CAROLYN IS DEAD BECAUSE OF SOUTHDOGS *******HORRIBLY********BAD ADVICE
                  AND LACK OF KNOWLEDGE AND THE WANT TO PLAY GOD WITH SOMEONE ELSE'S LIFE.


                  SLEEP GOOD TONIGHT ZSURSA ,.........YOU POMPOUS, ARROGANT, SELF
                  CENTERED, SLEF RIGHTEOUS, GODDAMN MORONIC IDIOT!!!!



                  Lynn,.. May the love of God embrace you in this time of uncalled for loss
                  and sorrow. You are **NOT** to blame!!

                  Hawk
                • Werner
                  You, Robert, are on my blocked list ... goodbye and good riddance to you May You live all the Days of your Life. ... From: fruitarians@yahoogroups.com Date:
                  Message 8 of 10 , Oct 9, 2002
                    You, Robert, are on my blocked list ... goodbye and good riddance to you
                     
                    May You live all the Days of your Life.
                    -------Original Message-------
                     
                    Date: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 11:16:38 AM
                    Subject: Re: [fruitarians] Re: THIS IS LYNN, ABOUT CAROLYN'S CONDITION
                     
                    Lynn,

                    I am horrified to hear that Carolyn is dead. I hope that someday I can
                    understand what happened.


                    ******WHAT!!!!    YOU ACTUALLY SAY YOU HOPE SOMEDAY YOU CAN UNDERSTAND
                    WHAT HAPPENED!!!!!!!!Her appendix burst you MORON and THAT KILLS
                    PEOPLE!!!!!!  This air you are totting now is despicable.  You are really
                    out to lunch girl!!  This letter SMACKS of backing out of the
                    responsibility that is yours and yours alone.  YOUR STUPID, IGNORANT,
                    NARROW MINDED WAYS AND ADVICE COST THIS GIRL HER ****LIFE.***** 


                    I am so shocked and saddened by the death of that sweet young girl. I
                    know you think I am on some kind of high horse, that I am a horrible
                    person.

                    *******No,,actually you are not a horrible person.  You are a DANGEROUS
                    person. I quote the words from a friend of mine whom I shared this
                    horrible outcome with.  I could not agree more,............

                      **If this had happened in the "real" world and not on the net, she
                    would be in jail for practicing medicine without a licence and murder
                    ....plain and simple.""

                    YES INDEED YOUR ASS BELONGS IN JAIL NOW AND DON'T YOU EVER FORGET IT.
                    YOU ARE DANGEROUS!!


                    I do not believe she died from fasting, or from not having surgery.

                    ********This is pitiful.  NO IT'S RIDICULOUS!!!!!!  You really need to go
                    have your head examined.  She listened to you.  You didn't do a thing for
                    her but give her bad advice for the entire time she was talking with you
                    on this list.   You need to shut up with this stupidity and accept what
                    YOU HAVE DONE!!!  You are one sick, ignorant, SHALLOW KNOW NOTHING
                    bitch!!


                    I don't have any way of knowing what happened. I hope that someday you
                    will be able to
                    tell me specifically what happened.

                    *********WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!  Her appendix BURST!!!!  This has been going on
                    for years and for YEARS they do a SIMPLE operation and SAVE people's
                    lives.  Poor Carolyn died a HORRIBLE DEATH of pain and torture because
                    YOU SOUTHDOGS are a FANATICAL arrogant and totally uneducated fool.  That
                    girl would have gone to the hospital, had her appendix taken out, and
                    lived to a ripe old age if YOU had ONLY told her to go get the surgery
                    like most told her to do on this list.  You are NOW trying to get out of
                    the guilt that is YOURS and YOURS ONLY for her DYING the way she did.
                    You knew she worshipped you and in that you became inflamed with ego to
                    the point of not seeing what WAS OBVIOUS!!!!  You wanted her to be your
                    experiment,,,YOU TROPHY... and to prove you are RIGHT about all the
                    nonsense you spew forth on this list.  Well she is DEAD now and you sit
                    here and cry,... "gee I would really like to KNOW WHAT HAPPENED SOME
                    DAY!!!!   GOD are you really this disconnected???? Are you really
                    thinking this type of talk excuses what you did to this girl????????? YOU
                    ARE TWISTED  to come OFF like this,............. just TWISTED!!!!


                    Of course it can never bring back Carolyn, but it might help us all
                    understand what happened.

                    ***********Here's a news flash Southdogs, Zsuzsa, or what ever your name
                    is.  SHE HAD APPENDICITIS WHICH CALLS FOR IMMEDIATE
                    MEDICAL--**ALLOPATHIC**--ATTENTION.   HER APPENDIX BURST BECAUSE **YOU**
                    GAVE HER BAD ADVICE AND TOLD HER TO NOT GET HER APPENDIX OUT. YOU SPAMMED
                    HER WITH INFORMATION ABOUT THE APPENDIX THAT DIDN'T HAVE A GODDAMN THING
                    TO DO WITH HER SITUATION AND SHE READ IT AND AS LYNN SAID BELIEVED IN
                    WHAT YOU SAID AS IF IT WERE OUT OF THE BIBLE OR SOMETHING.   AND YOU HAVE
                    THE AUDACITY TO SIT HERE AND WRITE THE PEOPLE ON THIS LIST AND DECLARE
                    "IT MIGHT HELP US UNDERSTAND WHAT HAPPENED!!!!!!
                    gggggggggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr YOU ARE NO FREAKING
                    GOOD WOMAN,....YOU ARE NO FREAKING GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I FIND YOU
                    DESPICABLE, CHEAP AND ARROGANT TO THE POINT OF BEING DANGEROUS.  PEOPLE
                    WHO KILL OTHERS,,BE IT WITH THEIR OWN HANDS OR **BAD ADVICE** THAT IS
                    GIVEN AS THE HOLY GRAIL OF INFORMATION  ARE   D-A-N-G-E-R-O-U-S.



                    I can say, if only Carolyn had been supervised by Dr. Bernarr, if only I
                    had known she was fasting on her own, if only I'd known she was going to
                    the hospital, if only...


                    **************These words which you are now spamming us with are the most
                    pitiful expressions of COPING OUT that I have EVER seen!!!  You are
                    sick,...period,...end of story.  I hope you all will take into account
                    this pitiful display of verbiage here and see exactly what has gone down
                    and what this person Southdogs is really all about. 



                    I know you blame me.

                    **************WHO ELSE GAVE HER BAD ADVICE???  You have been giving this
                    girl bad advice since you have been talking to her and if one goes back
                    and reads the threads THAT IS OBVIOUS!!!!!!!!    You should have been
                    chastised and she should have been put on the correct path.  You just
                    killed this girl from day one with you fanatical ignorant self glorifying
                    nonsense.


                    I told her to contact Dr. Bernarr,

                    *************YEAH SO IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT RIGHT!!!!!!!  Do you people SEE
                    this sick person's mentality here???????????  WHAT A COP OUT SHE IS
                    PRESENTING HERE!!!


                    perhaps I should have been more persistent,


                    ***********WHAT!!!!!!!!!   Jesus,....If you had ANY CLUE you would
                    have,...but you don't so you DIDN'T.  Hell when she was telling the list
                    that she was skin and bones, could see her shoulder blades sticking out,
                    had persistent diarrhea ---(which any moron knows dehydrates the
                    body)--and was puking,  and mentioned she was only really eat the grass
                    in her front lawn,..DID YOU STEP UP AND SAY ********"WAIT A MINUTE THIS
                    IS NOT GOOD"???********HELL NO YOU DIDN'T.  ONLY BROTHER MATT FINALLY
                    STEPPED UP AND SAID ""HEY GIRL EAT SOMETHING!!! ""  YOU DID NOT!!! YOU
                    LED THAT GIRL DOWN A PATH OF SELF DESTRUCTION AND WHY???????  WAS SHE
                    YOUR GUINEA PIG TO TRY AND USE TO SHOW THE WORLD THAT YOUR IDEOLOGY IS
                    CORRECT??????????  GOOD GOD WOMAN YOU ARE SUCH A DANGEROUS PERSON AND NOW
                    CAROLYN IS DEAD AND YOU TALK THIS CHEAP TRIPE TO TRY AND RID YOURSELF OF
                    THE RESPONSIBILITY OF IT ALL.!!  UNBELIEVABLE!!!


                    I had wondered how she was all this time, and wanted to find out about
                    her.


                    ***********OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH REALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!   Is this why we DIDN'T
                    SEE you post EVERYDAY ASKING WITH LOVE AND CONCERN  what was going
                    on,.........asking what was being done,.........staying on top of it
                    because you SHOULD have known the gravity of her situation.  NO YOU
                    DIDN'T!!
                    SO THE ABOVE STATEMENT IS BULLSHIT JUST LIKE THE REST OF THIS PITIFUL
                    REPLY YOU HAVE POSTED.  YOU GAVE HER YOU INFALLIBLE INFORMATION AND THAT
                    WAS THAT AS IF YOU HAD GIVEN HER ALL YOU COULD AND IT WAS UP TO HER TO
                    FOLLOW YOUR 100%,.. ABSOLUTE,... NOT GOING TO FAIL YOU ADVICE.   GOD YOU
                    ARE DISGUSTING WITH YOUR FANATICAL WAYS AND YOUR SELF ABSORPTION.



                    I had no way of knowing what was going on

                    ***********MY GOD!!!!!   YOU ARE SOOOOOOOOOOOO DANGEROUS AND DISCONNECTED
                    TO REALITY.   SEEMS EVERYBODY BUT YOU KNEW EXACTLY WHAT WAS GOING
                    ON,..TRIED TO WARN/PERSUADE CAROLYN TO IGNORE """YOUR""""
                    ******ASININE******* ADVICE AND JUST SIMPLY HAVE THE APPENDIX TAKEN OUT.
                    YOU POSTED YOUR ADVICE AS IF IT WAS THE TEN COMMANDMENTS OR SOMETHING AND
                    LEFT HER HANGING.  YOU REALLY DISGUST ME  Zsuzsa,...AND YOU HAVE KILLED
                    CAROLYN.  NO ACTUALLY THEY CALL THIS TYPE OF THING MURDER IN THE REAL
                    WORLD.

                    **********Her appendix was inflamed and ready to burst and you told her
                    to lie still and let the inflammation subside! 
                    YOU ARE DANGEROUS SOUTHDOGS.  YOUR ADVICE KILLS PEOPLE!!!!!!  DO YOU HEAR
                    ME.  YOU KILLED THAT GIRL YOU MORON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


                    I figured she either was under Dr. Bernarr's care, or you
                    had taken her into the hospital like you did before.

                    **********YOU FIGURED THIS AND YOU FIGURED THAT EH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   YOU
                    GIVE SOMEONE TOTALLY **BOGUS** INFORMATION AND THEN ******YOU
                    FIGURED***********!!!!!!!!!!  YOU TOLD THEM TO STAY AWAY FROM THE
                    HOSPITAL AND THE OPERATION SHE SOOOOOOOO DESPERATELY NEEDED.  SHE WOULD
                    BE ALIVE TODAY IF YOU HAD A SINGLE SOLITARY BRAIN OR A FREAKING OUNCE OF
                    ACTUAL COMMON SENSE IN YOUR WHOLE BEING!!!!!!!!!

                    I just cannot believe that sweet girl is dead. Even though I didn't
                    know her except through her messages, she was so loving and innocent.


                    **********THAT'S RIGHT AND YOU PLAYED GOD WITH HER INNOCENCE DIDN'T YOU
                    SOUTHDOGS!!

                    I know you were very concerned for her, yet I know that you believe
                    in medical intervention and a more conventional approach to diet and
                    health, certainly, than I do. I have no way of knowing all that
                    happened, and I hope that I can find out someday.

                    ***********THIS IS PITIFUL!!!!  Your words here are sooooooooooooooo
                    disgusting but they bear witness to what you are all about!!!!  YOU
                    SHOULD BE IN JAIL NOW FOR MURDER AS WE SPEAK.     HOW DOES IT FEEL TO
                    PLAY GOD SOUTHDOGS?????    HOW DOES IT FEEL TO KILL SOMEONE WITH BAD
                    ADVICE AND THEN DECLARE THE TRIPE YOU ARE TRYING TO PUT ACROSS HERE.
                    ooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I just don't know what happened. I hope I can
                    find out some day.   GOD ARE YOU TWISTED!



                    I do believe her death could have been prevented, but not by surgery.


                    ************YOU ARE AN IDIOT PLAIN AND SIMPLE.  YOU ARE A SPACE BISCUIT
                    EXTRODANAIRE. 



                    it is physiologically impossible for the appendix to burst if someone is
                    fasting, in bed, resting.

                    ************YOU ARE A MORON PLAIN AND SIMPLE!!!!!!!!!!
                    I THOUGHT YOU SAID YOU DID NOT TELL HER TO FAST BUT BY THIS SENTENCE ARE
                    SAYING THAT THE ABOVE IS WHAT SHE SHOULD HAVE DONE,..WHICH IS WHAT SHE
                    DID BECAUSE ****YOU TOLD HER TO**** AND NOW SHE IS
                    DEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  WELL SHE DID LISTEN TO YOU AS IF YOUR WERE GOD
                    AND GUESS WHAT???? SHE DIED YOU FREAKING MORON.  YOU JUST DON'T GET IT
                    AND YOU JUST SIT HERE AND ACT LIKE YOU HAVE NO FAULT IN THIS WHAT SO
                    EVER.  THIS IS THE MOST DISGUSTING THING I HAVE EVER SEEN AND HEARD IN MY
                    LIFE. 


                    The appendix bursts only if there is pressure on it, not from the
                    inflammation.

                    **********YES,.......OK  DR. Zsuzsa THIS IS WHAT YOU HAVE TOLD US BUT
                    SOMEONE JUST DIED BECAUSE THEY LISTENED TO YOUR ADVICE ABOUT THE APPENDIX
                    AND INFLAMMATION.

                    If someone is in bed at rest and fasting, the pressure is relieved, not
                    increased. The
                    pressure is lessened, and the inflammation becomes less acute, until
                    it is finished.

                    **********REALLY THEN WHY DID CAROLYN DIE LIKE A DOG IN THE BACK YARD
                    WITH EXTREME PAIN LIKE WE CAN'T EVEN IMAGINE IF THIS IS TRUE???? 
                    HUH?????  I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!   GOD YOU DISGUST ME WITH YOUR
                    FANATICAL  NONSENSE THAT HAS  A-C-T-U-A-L-L-Y   BEEN THE CAUSE OF SOME
                    ONES DEATH.  Zsuzsa,.....YOU  KILLED CAROLYN WITH YOUR GROSS STUPIDITY
                    AND RAGING ARROGANCE BUT YOU STILL TRY AND DEFEND WHAT YOU DID.
                    UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!!  THERE IS A SWEET PERSON NOW MISSING FROM THIS LIST
                    THANKS TO *******Zsuzsa********* BUT SHE DOESN'T SEE HOW WHAT SHE DID AND
                    SAID HAD ************ANYTHING************* AT ALL TO DO WITH IT.  I CAN'T
                    SAY THIS ENOUGH.  YOU ARE A SPACE BISCUIT.  YOU  ARE DANGEROUS.  YOU ARE
                    ONE SICK BITCH!!!!!!!!!!!



                    Before medical practice began to surgically remove
                    appendices, they used to fast patients in the old days, only they
                    called it starving them.


                    ************IN THE OLD DAYS PEOPLE DIED A HORRIBLE DEATH AS DID CAROLYN.
                    THAT IS *****HOW******* THEY FOUND OUT THAT THE APPENDIX RUPTURING
                    CAUSES POISON TO BE RELEASED INTO THE BODY.  YOU NEED TO LEAVE THE
                    CONFINES OF YOUR SMALL LITTLE WORD WHERE ALL IS AS ONLY YOU WANT TO SEE
                    IT.

                    I know you believe that surgery is what would have saved Carolyn.


                    ************  AND YOU STILL DON'T!!!!!!    YOU ARE CRAZY LADY.  YOU ARE
                    ABSOLUTELY OUT OF YOU MIND!!!!!!!!!!!! ANYBODY THAT LISTENS TO A THING
                    YOU HAVE TO SAY IS CRAZY!!!!!!!!  

                    My experience, with my loved ones, has been that they all died from
                    going to hospitals and having medical intervention. I believe they
                    could have been saved if they had not gone to hospitals. And I know a
                    lot of other people have said the same thing about their experiences.


                    ***********SHE HAD APPENDICITIS AND AN **OPERATION** WOULD HAVE SAVED HER
                    LIFE!!!!  
                    ***********HELLO,....IT'S THAT SIMPLE!!!!!!!!!!!*******

                    ********YOUR FAMILY DID NOT DIE OF WHAT CAROLYN HAD NOR DOES THE FACT
                    THAT THEY DIED IN A HOSPITAL .........(IF THIS REALLY EVEN HAPPENED AND
                    IS NOT SOME TYPE OF BS. TO JUSTIFY WHY YOU GIVE OUT BAD LIFE THREATENING
                    ADVICE BASED ON NARROW MINDEDNESS AND TOTAL ILLOGICAL REASONING)......
                    BECAUSE OF SOME MEDICAL INTERVENTION MEAN THAT THIS WAS/IS SPECIFIC TO
                    CAROLYN'S CONDITION.  YOU ARE TRYING TO BACK OUT NOW OF WHAT YOU DID AND
                    THIS IS NOT PRETTY.  YOU ARE SICK AND TWISTED,...AND A GIRL IS DEAD NOW
                    BECAUSE OF YOUR LACK OF KNOWLEDGE AND YOUR GROSS STUPIDITY.  DO YOU HEAR
                    ME,.............. ***SHE IS DEAD!!***  WHAT YOU HAVE SAID HERE IN THIS
                    P-I-T-I-F-U-L  REPLY YOU HAVE SENT TO LYNN AND OTHERS HERE IS INCREDIBLY
                    INANE!!!  YOU CAN NOT JUSTIFY WHAT YOU DID BUT IN YOUR MIND IT IS OBVIOUS
                    THAT YOU TAKE NO RESPONSIBLITY FOR THIS WHAT SO EVER.  YOU ARE
                    SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO UNCOOL!!!!!!!!!!


                    And especially to Carolyn, I do believe the spirit goes on, and her
                    beautiful spirit is surely with the angels. I will grieve for the
                    loss of that sweet lady forever.

                    **********YES OUR SPIRIT DOES MOVE ON FOR THAT IS OUR TRUE SELF.  BUT
                    MOST DIE NATURAL DEATHS NOT SOME AGONIZING TORTUROUS HORRIBLE  PAIN
                    WRENCHING DEATH AT THE HANDS OF SOME SELF PROCLAIMED HEALTH GURU THAT
                    DOESN'T REALLY KNOW JACK. 

                    NOW,............... ARE YOU NOW TAKING CREDIT HERE FOR HER BEING WITH
                    THE ANGELS????   YOU ARE NOT COOL,,YOU ARE DANGEROUS AND YOU WILL, AGAIN,
                    SOME TIME IN THIS LIFE,... CAUSE ANOTHER SEVERE PAIN AND MISERY AND EVEN
                    DEATH ***AGAIN*** BECAUSE OF YOUR FANATICAL SICK AND TWISTED HEADSPACE.
                    I'M NOT SO SURE OTHERS HAVE NOT ALREADY BEEN SEVERELY HURT BY YOUR
                    ARROGANT, POMPOUS,   IGNORANCE. 

                    I AM 50 YEARS OLD AND HAD THOUGHT I'D *****REALLY****** SEEN IT ALL. 
                    YOU TAKE THE CAKE SOUTHDOGS.  YOU REALLY HONEST TO GOD TAKE THE CAKE!!!!
                    I WILL JUST CLOSE THIS LETTER WITH THE QUOTE MY FRIEND SENT ME IN
                    LEARNING OF THIS SITUATION,..............

                    **If this had happened in the "real" world and not on the net, she would
                    be in jail for practicing medicine without a licence and murder ...plain
                    and simple.""

                    YOU INDEED **DO** SIT ON A HIGH HORSE OF YOUR OWN MAKING AND IT HAS
                    KILLED SOMEONE.  YOUR ARROGANCE AND TOTAL LACK OF EDUCATION ON THE MATTER
                    OF HEALTH AND THE BODY HAVE BECOME OVERLY OBVIOUS!!! 

                    TO ALL THAT COME HERE,...DO AS LYNN HAS ASKED.  DO NOT LISTEN TO THIS
                    PERSON SOUTHDOGS.  SHE HAS NO MORAL CHARACTER AND TALKS OF THINGS SHE
                    KNOWS NOTHING OF.   AND SHE HAS NOW ENDED A GIRLS LIFE WITH HER MORONIC
                    FANATICAL SELF SERVING STUPIDITY. 

                    CAROLYN IS DEAD BECAUSE OF SOUTHDOGS *******HORRIBLY********BAD ADVICE
                    AND LACK OF KNOWLEDGE AND THE WANT TO PLAY GOD WITH SOMEONE ELSE'S LIFE.


                    SLEEP GOOD TONIGHT   ZSURSA ,.........YOU POMPOUS, ARROGANT, SELF
                    CENTERED, SLEF RIGHTEOUS,   GODDAMN MORONIC IDIOT!!!!



                    Lynn,.. May the love of God embrace you in this time of uncalled for loss
                    and sorrow.  You are **NOT** to blame!!

                    Hawk  







                    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                     
                  • Szabina Snape
                    And Southladogs is on mine. How anyone can defend that bitch is beyond me. Werner
                    Message 9 of 10 , Oct 9, 2002

                      And Southladogs is on mine.  How anyone can defend that bitch is beyond me.

                       Werner wrote:

                      You, Robert, are on my blocked list ... goodbye and good riddance to you
                       
                      May You live all the Days of your Life.
                      -------Original Message-------
                       
                      Date: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 11:16:38 AM
                      Subject: Re: [fruitarians] Re: THIS IS LYNN, ABOUT CAROLYN'S CONDITION
                       
                      Lynn,

                      I am horrified to hear that Carolyn is dead. I hope that someday I can
                      understand what happened.


                      ******WHAT!!!!    YOU ACTUALLY SAY YOU HOPE SOMEDAY YOU CAN UNDERSTAND
                      WHAT HAPPENED!!!!!!!!Her appendix burst you MORON and THAT KILLS
                      PEOPLE!!!!!!  This air you are totting now is despicable.  You are really
                      out to lunch girl!!  This letter SMACKS of backing out of the
                      responsibility that is yours and yours alone.  YOUR STUPID, IGNORANT,
                      NARROW MINDED WAYS AND ADVICE COST THIS GIRL HER ****LIFE.***** 


                      I am so shocked and saddened by the death of that sweet young girl. I
                      know you think I am on some kind of high horse, that I am a horrible
                      person.

                      *******No,,actually you are not a horrible person.  You are a DANGEROUS
                      person. I quote the words from a friend of mine whom I shared this
                      horrible outcome with.  I could not agree more,............

                        **If this had happened in the "real" world and not on the net, she
                      would be in jail for practicing medicine without a licence and murder
                      ....plain and simple.""

                      YES INDEED YOUR ASS BELONGS IN JAIL NOW AND DON'T YOU EVER FORGET IT.
                      YOU ARE DANGEROUS!!


                      I do not believe she died from fasting, or from not having surgery.

                      ********This is pitiful.  NO IT'S RIDICULOUS!!!!!!  You really need to go
                      have your head examined.  She listened to you.  You didn't do a thing for
                      her but give her bad advice for the entire time she was talking with you
                      on this list.   You need to shut up with this stupidity and accept what
                      YOU HAVE DONE!!!  You are one sick, ignorant, SHALLOW KNOW NOTHING
                      bitch!!


                      I don't have any way of knowing what happened. I hope that someday you
                      will be able to
                      tell me specifically what happened.

                      *********WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!  Her appendix BURST!!!!  This has been going on
                      for years and for YEARS they do a SIMPLE operation and SAVE people's
                      lives.  Poor Carolyn died a HORRIBLE DEATH of pain and torture because
                      YOU SOUTHDOGS are a FANATICAL arrogant and totally uneducated fool.  That
                      girl would have gone to the hospital, had her appendix taken out, and
                      lived to a ripe old age if YOU had ONLY told her to go get the surgery
                      like most told her to do on this list.  You are NOW trying to get out of
                      the guilt that is YOURS and YOURS ONLY for her DYING the way she did.
                      You knew she worshipped you and in that you became inflamed with ego to
                      the point of not seeing what WAS OBVIOUS!!!!  You wanted her to be your
                      experiment,,,YOU TROPHY... and to prove you are RIGHT about all the
                      nonsense you spew forth on this list.  Well she is DEAD now and you sit
                      here and cry,... "gee I would really like to KNOW WHAT HAPPENED SOME
                      DAY!!!!   GOD are you really this disconnected???? Are you really
                      thinking this type of talk excuses what you did to this girl????????? YOU
                      ARE TWISTED  to come OFF like this,............. just TWISTED!!!!


                      Of course it can never bring back Carolyn, but it might help us all
                      understand what happened.

                      ***********Here's a news flash Southdogs, Zsuzsa, or what ever your name
                      is.  SHE HAD APPENDICITIS WHICH CALLS FOR IMMEDIATE
                      MEDICAL--**ALLOPATHIC**--ATTENTION.   HER APPENDIX BURST BECAUSE **YOU**
                      GAVE HER BAD ADVICE AND TOLD HER TO NOT GET HER APPENDIX OUT. YOU SPAMMED
                      HER WITH INFORMATION ABOUT THE APPENDIX THAT DIDN'T HAVE A GODDAMN THING
                      TO DO WITH HER SITUATION AND SHE READ IT AND AS LYNN SAID BELIEVED IN
                      WHAT YOU SAID AS IF IT WERE OUT OF THE BIBLE OR SOMETHING.   AND YOU HAVE
                      THE AUDACITY TO SIT HERE AND WRITE THE PEOPLE ON THIS LIST AND DECLARE
                      "IT MIGHT HELP US UNDERSTAND WHAT HAPPENED!!!!!!
                      gggggggggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr YOU ARE NO FREAKING
                      GOOD WOMAN,....YOU ARE NO FREAKING GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I FIND YOU
                      DESPICABLE, CHEAP AND ARROGANT TO THE POINT OF BEING DANGEROUS.  PEOPLE
                      WHO KILL OTHERS,,BE IT WITH THEIR OWN HANDS OR **BAD ADVICE** THAT IS
                      GIVEN AS THE HOLY GRAIL OF INFORMATION  ARE   D-A-N-G-E-R-O-U-S.



                      I can say, if only Carolyn had been supervised by Dr. Bernarr, if only I
                      had known she was fasting on her own, if only I'd known she was going to
                      the hospital, if only...


                      **************These words which you are now spamming us with are the most
                      pitiful expressions of COPING OUT that I have EVER seen!!!  You are
                      sick,...period,...end of story.  I hope you all will take into account
                      this pitiful display of verbiage here and see exactly what has gone down
                      and what this person Southdogs is really all about. 



                      I know you blame me.

                      **************WHO ELSE GAVE HER BAD ADVICE???  You have been giving this
                      girl bad advice since you have been talking to her and if one goes back
                      and reads the threads THAT IS OBVIOUS!!!!!!!!    You should have been
                      chastised and she should have been put on the correct path.  You just
                      killed this girl from day one with you fanatical ignorant self glorifying
                      nonsense.


                      I told her to contact Dr. Bernarr,

                      *************YEAH SO IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT RIGHT!!!!!!!  Do you people SEE
                      this sick person's mentality here???????????  WHAT A COP OUT SHE IS
                      PRESENTING HERE!!!


                      perhaps I should have been more persistent,


                      ***********WHAT!!!!!!!!!   Jesus,....If you had ANY CLUE you would
                      have,...but you don't so you DIDN'T.  Hell when she was telling the list
                      that she was skin and bones, could see her shoulder blades sticking out,
                      had persistent diarrhea ---(which any moron knows dehydrates the
                      body)--and was puking,  and mentioned she was only really eat the grass
                      in her front lawn,..DID YOU STEP UP AND SAY ********"WAIT A MINUTE THIS
                      IS NOT GOOD"???********HELL NO YOU DIDN'T.  ONLY BROTHER MATT FINALLY
                      STEPPED UP AND SAID ""HEY GIRL EAT SOMETHING!!! ""  YOU DID NOT!!! YOU
                      LED THAT GIRL DOWN A PATH OF SELF DESTRUCTION AND WHY???????  WAS SHE
                      YOUR GUINEA PIG TO TRY AND USE TO SHOW THE WORLD THAT YOUR IDEOLOGY IS
                      CORRECT??????????  GOOD GOD WOMAN YOU ARE SUCH A DANGEROUS PERSON AND NOW
                      CAROLYN IS DEAD AND YOU TALK THIS CHEAP TRIPE TO TRY AND RID YOURSELF OF
                      THE RESPONSIBILITY OF IT ALL.!!  UNBELIEVABLE!!!


                      I had wondered how she was all this time, and wanted to find out about
                      her.


                      ***********OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH REALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!   Is this why we DIDN'T
                      SEE you post EVERYDAY ASKING WITH LOVE AND CONCERN  what was going
                      on,.........asking what was being done,.........staying on top of it
                      because you SHOULD have known the gravity of her situation.  NO YOU
                      DIDN'T!!
                      SO THE ABOVE STATEMENT IS BULLSHIT JUST LIKE THE REST OF THIS PITIFUL
                      REPLY YOU HAVE POSTED.  YOU GAVE HER YOU INFALLIBLE INFORMATION AND THAT
                      WAS THAT AS IF YOU HAD GIVEN HER ALL YOU COULD AND IT WAS UP TO HER TO
                      FOLLOW YOUR 100%,.. ABSOLUTE,... NOT GOING TO FAIL YOU ADVICE.   GOD YOU
                      ARE DISGUSTING WITH YOUR FANATICAL WAYS AND YOUR SELF ABSORPTION.



                      I had no way of knowing what was going on

                      ***********MY GOD!!!!!   YOU ARE SOOOOOOOOOOOO DANGEROUS AND DISCONNECTED
                      TO REALITY.   SEEMS EVERYBODY BUT YOU KNEW EXACTLY WHAT WAS GOING
                      ON,..TRIED TO WARN/PERSUADE CAROLYN TO IGNORE """YOUR""""
                      ******ASININE******* ADVICE AND JUST SIMPLY HAVE THE APPENDIX TAKEN OUT.
                      YOU POSTED YOUR ADVICE AS IF IT WAS THE TEN COMMANDMENTS OR SOMETHING AND
                      LEFT HER HANGING.  YOU REALLY DISGUST ME  Zsuzsa,...AND YOU HAVE KILLED
                      CAROLYN.  NO ACTUALLY THEY CALL THIS TYPE OF THING MURDER IN THE REAL
                      WORLD.

                      **********Her appendix was inflamed and ready to burst and you told her
                      to lie still and let the inflammation subside! 
                      YOU ARE DANGEROUS SOUTHDOGS.  YOUR ADVICE KILLS PEOPLE!!!!!!  DO YOU HEAR
                      ME.  YOU KILLED THAT GIRL YOU MORON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


                      I figured she either was under Dr. Bernarr's care, or you
                      had taken her into the hospital like you did before.

                      **********YOU FIGURED THIS AND YOU FIGURED THAT EH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   YOU
                      GIVE SOMEONE TOTALLY **BOGUS** INFORMATION AND THEN ******YOU
                      FIGURED***********!!!!!!!!!!  YOU TOLD THEM TO STAY AWAY FROM THE
                      HOSPITAL AND THE OPERATION SHE SOOOOOOOO DESPERATELY NEEDED.  SHE WOULD
                      BE ALIVE TODAY IF YOU HAD A SINGLE SOLITARY BRAIN OR A FREAKING OUNCE OF
                      ACTUAL COMMON SENSE IN YOUR WHOLE BEING!!!!!!!!!

                      I just cannot believe that sweet girl is dead. Even though I didn't
                      know her except through her messages, she was so loving and innocent.


                      **********THAT'S RIGHT AND YOU PLAYED GOD WITH HER INNOCENCE DIDN'T YOU
                      SOUTHDOGS!!

                      I know you were very concerned for her, yet I know that you believe
                      in medical intervention and a more conventional approach to diet and
                      health, certainly, than I do. I have no way of knowing all that
                      happened, and I hope that I can find out someday.

                      ***********THIS IS PITIFUL!!!!  Your words here are sooooooooooooooo
                      disgusting but they bear witness to what you are all about!!!!  YOU
                      SHOULD BE IN JAIL NOW FOR MURDER AS WE SPEAK.     HOW DOES IT FEEL TO
                      PLAY GOD SOUTHDOGS?????    HOW DOES IT FEEL TO KILL SOMEONE WITH BAD
                      ADVICE AND THEN DECLARE THE TRIPE YOU ARE TRYING TO PUT ACROSS HERE.
                      ooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I just don't know what happened. I hope I can
                      find out some day.   GOD ARE YOU TWISTED!



                      I do believe her death could have been prevented, but not by surgery.


                      ************YOU ARE AN IDIOT PLAIN AND SIMPLE.  YOU ARE A SPACE BISCUIT
                      EXTRODANAIRE. 



                      it is physiologically impossible for the appendix to burst if someone is
                      fasting, in bed, resting.

                      ************YOU ARE A MORON PLAIN AND SIMPLE!!!!!!!!!!
                      I THOUGHT YOU SAID YOU DID NOT TELL HER TO FAST BUT BY THIS SENTENCE ARE
                      SAYING THAT THE ABOVE IS WHAT SHE SHOULD HAVE DONE,..WHICH IS WHAT SHE
                      DID BECAUSE ****YOU TOLD HER TO**** AND NOW SHE IS
                      DEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  WELL SHE DID LISTEN TO YOU AS IF YOUR WERE GOD
                      AND GUESS WHAT???? SHE DIED YOU FREAKING MORON.  YOU JUST DON'T GET IT
                      AND YOU JUST SIT HERE AND ACT LIKE YOU HAVE NO FAULT IN THIS WHAT SO
                      EVER.  THIS IS THE MOST DISGUSTING THING I HAVE EVER SEEN AND HEARD IN MY
                      LIFE. 


                      The appendix bursts only if there is pressure on it, not from the
                      inflammation.

                      **********YES,.......OK  DR. Zsuzsa THIS IS WHAT YOU HAVE TOLD US BUT
                      SOMEONE JUST DIED BECAUSE THEY LISTENED TO YOUR ADVICE ABOUT THE APPENDIX
                      AND INFLAMMATION.

                      If someone is in bed at rest and fasting, the pressure is relieved, not
                      increased. The
                      pressure is lessened, and the inflammation becomes less acute, until
                      it is finished.

                      **********REALLY THEN WHY DID CAROLYN DIE LIKE A DOG IN THE BACK YARD
                      WITH EXTREME PAIN LIKE WE CAN'T EVEN IMAGINE IF THIS IS TRUE???? 
                      HUH?????  I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!   GOD YOU DISGUST ME WITH YOUR
                      FANATICAL  NONSENSE THAT HAS  A-C-T-U-A-L-L-Y   BEEN THE CAUSE OF SOME
                      ONES DEATH.  Zsuzsa,.....YOU  KILLED CAROLYN WITH YOUR GROSS STUPIDITY
                      AND RAGING ARROGANCE BUT YOU STILL TRY AND DEFEND WHAT YOU DID.
                      UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!!  THERE IS A SWEET PERSON NOW MISSING FROM THIS LIST
                      THANKS TO *******Zsuzsa********* BUT SHE DOESN'T SEE HOW WHAT SHE DID AND
                      SAID HAD ************ANYTHING************* AT ALL TO DO WITH IT.  I CAN'T
                      SAY THIS ENOUGH.  YOU ARE A SPACE BISCUIT.  YOU  ARE DANGEROUS.  YOU ARE
                      ONE SICK BITCH!!!!!!!!!!!



                      Before medical practice began to surgically remove
                      appendices, they used to fast patients in the old days, only they
                      called it starving them.


                      ************IN THE OLD DAYS PEOPLE DIED A HORRIBLE DEATH AS DID CAROLYN.
                      THAT IS *****HOW******* THEY FOUND OUT THAT THE APPENDIX RUPTURING
                      CAUSES POISON TO BE RELEASED INTO THE BODY.  YOU NEED TO LEAVE THE
                      CONFINES OF YOUR SMALL LITTLE WORD WHERE ALL IS AS ONLY YOU WANT TO SEE
                      IT.

                      I know you believe that surgery is what would have saved Carolyn.


                      ************  AND YOU STILL DON'T!!!!!!    YOU ARE CRAZY LADY.  YOU ARE
                      ABSOLUTELY OUT OF YOU MIND!!!!!!!!!!!! ANYBODY THAT LISTENS TO A THING
                      YOU HAVE TO SAY IS CRAZY!!!!!!!!  

                      My experience, with my loved ones, has been that they all died from
                      going to hospitals and having medical intervention. I believe they
                      could have been saved if they had not gone to hospitals. And I know a
                      lot of other people have said the same thing about their experiences.


                      ***********SHE HAD APPENDICITIS AND AN **OPERATION** WOULD HAVE SAVED HER
                      LIFE!!!!  
                      ***********HELLO,....IT'S THAT SIMPLE!!!!!!!!!!!*******

                      ********YOUR FAMILY DID NOT DIE OF WHAT CAROLYN HAD NOR DOES THE FACT
                      THAT THEY DIED IN A HOSPITAL .........(IF THIS REALLY EVEN HAPPENED AND
                      IS NOT SOME TYPE OF BS. TO JUSTIFY WHY YOU GIVE OUT BAD LIFE THREATENING
                      ADVICE BASED ON NARROW MINDEDNESS AND TOTAL ILLOGICAL REASONING)......
                      BECAUSE OF SOME MEDICAL INTERVENTION MEAN THAT THIS WAS/IS SPECIFIC TO
                      CAROLYN'S CONDITION.  YOU ARE TRYING TO BACK OUT NOW OF WHAT YOU DID AND
                      THIS IS NOT PRETTY.  YOU ARE SICK AND TWISTED,...AND A GIRL IS DEAD NOW
                      BECAUSE OF YOUR LACK OF KNOWLEDGE AND YOUR GROSS STUPIDITY.  DO YOU HEAR
                      ME,.............. ***SHE IS DEAD!!***  WHAT YOU HAVE SAID HERE IN THIS
                      P-I-T-I-F-U-L  REPLY YOU HAVE SENT TO LYNN AND OTHERS HERE IS INCREDIBLY
                      INANE!!!  YOU CAN NOT JUSTIFY WHAT YOU DID BUT IN YOUR MIND IT IS OBVIOUS
                      THAT YOU TAKE NO RESPONSIBLITY FOR THIS WHAT SO EVER.  YOU ARE
                      SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO UNCOOL!!!!!!!!!!


                      And especially to Carolyn, I do believe the spirit goes on, and her
                      beautiful spirit is surely with the angels. I will grieve for the
                      loss of that sweet lady forever.

                      **********YES OUR SPIRIT DOES MOVE ON FOR THAT IS OUR TRUE SELF.  BUT
                      MOST DIE NATURAL DEATHS NOT SOME AGONIZING TORTUROUS HORRIBLE  PAIN
                      WRENCHING DEATH AT THE HANDS OF SOME SELF PROCLAIMED HEALTH GURU THAT
                      DOESN'T REALLY KNOW JACK. 

                      NOW,............... ARE YOU NOW TAKING CREDIT HERE FOR HER BEING WITH
                      THE ANGELS????   YOU ARE NOT COOL,,YOU ARE DANGEROUS AND YOU WILL, AGAIN,
                      SOME TIME IN THIS LIFE,... CAUSE ANOTHER SEVERE PAIN AND MISERY AND EVEN
                      DEATH ***AGAIN*** BECAUSE OF YOUR FANATICAL SICK AND TWISTED HEADSPACE.
                      I'M NOT SO SURE OTHERS HAVE NOT ALREADY BEEN SEVERELY HURT BY YOUR
                      ARROGANT, POMPOUS,   IGNORANCE. 

                      I AM 50 YEARS OLD AND HAD THOUGHT I'D *****REALLY****** SEEN IT ALL. 
                      YOU TAKE THE CAKE SOUTHDOGS.  YOU REALLY HONEST TO GOD TAKE THE CAKE!!!!
                      I WILL JUST CLOSE THIS LETTER WITH THE QUOTE MY FRIEND SENT ME IN
                      LEARNING OF THIS SITUATION,..............

                      **If this had happened in the "real" world and not on the net, she would
                      be in jail for practicing medicine without a licence and murder ...plain
                      and simple.""

                      YOU INDEED **DO** SIT ON A HIGH HORSE OF YOUR OWN MAKING AND IT HAS
                      KILLED SOMEONE.  YOUR ARROGANCE AND TOTAL LACK OF EDUCATION ON THE MATTER
                      OF HEALTH AND THE BODY HAVE BECOME OVERLY OBVIOUS!!! 

                      TO ALL THAT COME HERE,...DO AS LYNN HAS ASKED.  DO NOT LISTEN TO THIS
                      PERSON SOUTHDOGS.  SHE HAS NO MORAL CHARACTER AND TALKS OF THINGS SHE
                      KNOWS NOTHING OF.   AND SHE HAS NOW ENDED A GIRLS LIFE WITH HER MORONIC
                      FANATICAL SELF SERVING STUPIDITY. 

                      CAROLYN IS DEAD BECAUSE OF SOUTHDOGS *******HORRIBLY********BAD ADVICE
                      AND LACK OF KNOWLEDGE AND THE WANT TO PLAY GOD WITH SOMEONE ELSE'S LIFE.


                      SLEEP GOOD TONIGHT   ZSURSA ,.........YOU POMPOUS, ARROGANT, SELF
                      CENTERED, SLEF RIGHTEOUS,   GODDAMN MORONIC IDIOT!!!!



                      Lynn,.. May the love of God embrace you in this time of uncalled for loss
                      and sorrow.  You are **NOT** to blame!!

                      Hawk  







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                    • Robert T Hara
                      On Wed, 9 Oct 2002 17:47:48 -0500 (Central Daylight Time) Werner ... you Goodbye to you too you piece of shit!! Hawk
                      Message 10 of 10 , Oct 9, 2002
                        On Wed, 9 Oct 2002 17:47:48 -0500 (Central Daylight Time) "Werner"
                        <mejda6@...> writes:
                        > You, Robert, are on my blocked list ... goodbye and good riddance to
                        you



                        Goodbye to you too you piece of shit!!

                        Hawk
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