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Re: [Frognet] "clean" frogs are healthy frogs...

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  • Hank Gibson
    That s a real can of worms for a keeper to sort through. The difference between what is good or bad is dictated by the animals ability to adjust via
    Message 1 of 4 , Apr 21, 2011
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      That's a real can of worms for a keeper to sort through. The difference
      between what is good or bad is
      dictated by the animals ability to adjust via themoregulation or adjust to
      potential prey type suitability. Obviously prey items which are
      not the norm are consumed at least occasionally. These items may or may not
      include microfauna which enhance or,
      diminish natural processes. The addition of alien or non-typical microflora to
      an animals diet may be considered as potentially
      devastating, as much as it could be considered valuable. Captive "bubble baby"
      frogs should be allowed full access to the available
      geographical environmental flows, by incorperation of these materials and
      naturaly occuring prey items found within. A more difficult
      regiment for some, but IMHO, the foundation for stonger, higher quality
      animals.
      PS>>> I did not read the link.,

      From: ronsky@...
      Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 13:32:28 -0700
      To: frognet@...
      Subject: [Frognet] "clean" frogs are healthy frogs...

      ...or maybe not.

      Interesting new study looking at gut bacteria in humans in the NY Times:
      http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/21/science/21gut.html?_r=1&smid=fb-nytimes&WT.
      mc_id=SC-SM-E-FB-SM-LIN-GBD-042111-NYT-NA&WT.mc_ev=click

      "Whatever the cause of the different enterotypes, they may end up having
      discrete effects on people�s health. Gut microbes aid in food digestion and
      synthesize vitamins, using enzymes our own cells cannot make."

      Interesting factor into how we might view and cultivate not just the
      microcosms of our terrariums, but also the microcosms WITHIN the frogs we
      keep...what we consider "good" and "bad."

      Ron

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    • Emily Lisborg
      I know for a fact that many of my frogs have worms, they had multiple fecals done (albeit a long time ago) by Dr. Frye and Dr. Wright. These frogs are all cb
      Message 2 of 4 , Apr 22, 2011
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        I know for a fact that many of my frogs have worms, they had multiple fecals
        done (albeit a long time ago) by Dr. Frye and Dr. Wright. These frogs are all
        cb animals however, and most did not go through the stress of shipping but
        were obtained locally. What I do not understand is that we know these frogs
        to have parasites in the wild but we still think it necessary to have 'clean'
        frogs in captivity. For animals with compromised immune systems (such as
        imports or maybe third wheel frogs) it makes sense to get rid of anything
        standing in the way of a quick recovery, but for frogs that have been observed
        for an extended time and are physically and behaviorally healthy- I do not see
        why anything needs to be done. I mean more in the realm of years not months
        for observation which is not always practical.

        Are there drugs for amphibians that are not for eliminating but for boosting
        immune activity, perhaps some electrolyte mixture?

        Emily


        From: ronsky@...
        Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 13:32:28 -0700
        To: frognet@...
        Subject: [Frognet] "clean" frogs are healthy frogs...

        ...or maybe not.

        Interesting new study looking at gut bacteria in humans in the NY Times:
        http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/21/science/21gut.html?_r=1&smid=fb-nytimes&WT.
        mc_id=SC-SM-E-FB-SM-LIN-GBD-042111-NYT-NA&WT.mc_ev=click

        "Whatever the cause of the different enterotypes, they may end up having
        discrete effects on people�s health. Gut microbes aid in food digestion and
        synthesize vitamins, using enzymes our own cells cannot make."

        Interesting factor into how we might view and cultivate not just the
        microcosms of our terrariums, but also the microcosms WITHIN the frogs we
        keep...what we consider "good" and "bad."

        Ron

        _______________________________________________
        Frognet Mailing List: Frognet@...
        http://lists.frognet.org/listinfo.cgi/frognet-frognet.org

        FAQ: http://www.tracyhicks.com/FFAQ.htm
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      • Nathaniel Paull
        I don t believe there are any drugs known, for any species, which boost immune activity generally. This is in spite of wildly exaggerated marketing claims by
        Message 3 of 4 , Apr 22, 2011
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          I don't believe there are any drugs known, for any species, which boost immune
          activity generally. This is in spite of wildly exaggerated marketing claims by
          many product lines that claim to do so, in the absence of evidence that their
          product works in that way. A general activation of the immune system is
          actually quite a dangerous thing, as millions of patients with various
          autoimmune diseases could tell you.

          -Nate


          On Apr 22, 2011, at 8:53 AM, Emily Lisborg wrote:

          > I know for a fact that many of my frogs have worms, they had multiple
          fecals
          > done (albeit a long time ago) by Dr. Frye and Dr. Wright. These frogs are
          all
          > cb animals however, and most did not go through the stress of shipping but
          > were obtained locally. What I do not understand is that we know these
          frogs
          > to have parasites in the wild but we still think it necessary to have
          'clean'
          > frogs in captivity. For animals with compromised immune systems (such as
          > imports or maybe third wheel frogs) it makes sense to get rid of anything
          > standing in the way of a quick recovery, but for frogs that have been
          observed
          > for an extended time and are physically and behaviorally healthy- I do not
          see
          > why anything needs to be done. I mean more in the realm of years not
          months
          > for observation which is not always practical.
          >
          > Are there drugs for amphibians that are not for eliminating but for
          boosting
          > immune activity, perhaps some electrolyte mixture?
          >
          > Emily
          >
          >
          > From: ronsky@...
          > Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 13:32:28 -0700
          > To: frognet@...
          > Subject: [Frognet] "clean" frogs are healthy frogs...
          >
          > ...or maybe not.
          >
          > Interesting new study looking at gut bacteria in humans in the NY Times:
          >
          http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/21/science/21gut.html?_r=1&smid=fb-nytimes&WT.
          > mc_id=SC-SM-E-FB-SM-LIN-GBD-042111-NYT-NA&WT.mc_ev=click
          >
          > "Whatever the cause of the different enterotypes, they may end up having
          > discrete effects on people‚s health. Gut microbes aid in food digestion and
          > synthesize vitamins, using enzymes our own cells cannot make."
          >
          > Interesting factor into how we might view and cultivate not just the
          > microcosms of our terrariums, but also the microcosms WITHIN the frogs we
          > keep...what we consider "good" and "bad."
          >
          > Ron
          >
          > _______________________________________________
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          > http://lists.frognet.org/listinfo.cgi/frognet-frognet.org
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          > Frognet Mailing List: Frognet@...
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          >
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