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Re: factoring out the revenue stream

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  • raia1us
    P.S. I don t think the SMP s UW tuition analogy or the ... $8.26B of the payments come between 2039 - 2050 - so the majority are low value bucks - you know $12
    Message 1 of 15 , Jun 23, 2005
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      P.S. I don't think the SMP's UW tuition analogy or the
      > 5-cent candy bar analogy is entirely appropos.
      > Consider that we're making payments not just in 2050
      > but all the way from now to 2050, so it's not just
      > 2050 dollars we're talking about. It's more like
      > taking the average of what a candy bar cost each year
      > from 40 years ago up to the present day.


      $8.26B of the payments come between 2039 - 2050 - so the majority are
      low value bucks - you know $12 single shorts.
    • Mitch Gitman
      ... Peter, thanks for clarifying this, as does the SMP s latest update. Y know, in retrospect, maybe it s a little bit of putting the cart before the horse to
      Message 2 of 15 , Jun 23, 2005
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        --- raia1us <jpsher@...> wrote:
        > $8.26B of the payments come between 2039 - 2050 - so
        > the majority are
        > low value bucks - you know $12 single shorts.
        >


        Peter, thanks for clarifying this, as does the SMP's
        latest update.

        Y'know, in retrospect, maybe it's a little bit of
        putting the cart before the horse to start talking
        just yet about supplementing the revenue flow, even
        though I don't understand why others are looking only
        to the Seattle taxpayers.

        At this point, it really all comes down to the City
        Council. The council has charged itself with ensuring
        that the project is financially feasible, and when you
        consider that the big bucks get paid late, I think it
        all works out. Ultimately, this is merely about
        granting the the monorail project the right of way.

        This is not about the monorail project's existence.
        It's not about revisiting the entire debate, "Should
        we or shouldn't we build monorail?" It's not about
        column sizes or funding the viaduct or competing
        transit technologies. It's not about putting your
        finger to the wind of public opinion outside the
        context of an upcoming election. And it's sure as heck
        not about the opinion of people living in Sammamish or
        some other time zone even. (For Chad to start citing
        an unscientific "poll" on a newspaper Web site just
        shows how little credibility he deserves.)

        Still, I can understand why Seattle residents would be
        freaked out by $11 billion, even with the legitimate
        explanations, and why if a scientific survey of
        Seattle voters was conducted at this moment the
        monorail might not be too popular. But you know what,
        if we had to be subjected to yet another yes/no
        November monorail election (if our elected leaders
        just want to abdicate their responsibility), I'm
        confident the monorail would win.

        Opinion columnist David Brooks of The New York TImes
        just wrote a fine column, "Iraq and the Polls."
        Whether you agree with the Iraq war or not, you might
        appreciate Brooks' point. The piece begins: "There's a
        reason George Washington didn't take a poll at Valley
        Forge." It ends with a quote made by Franklin D.
        Roosevelt during World War II: ""Your government has
        unmistakable confidence in your ability to hear the
        worst, without flinching or losing heart...."
        http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/23/opinion/23brooks.html?n=Top%2fOpinion%2fEditorials%20and%20Op%2dEd%2fOp%2dEd%2fColumnists%2fDavid%20Brooks



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      • Maggie Spillers
        Am I the only person who doesn t think the old monorail columns are all that bad? I love how the guideway runs along 5th and its very familiar - I would miss
        Message 3 of 15 , Jun 23, 2005
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          Am I the only person who doesn't think the old
          monorail columns are all that bad? I love how the
          guideway runs along 5th and its very familiar - I
          would miss it if it were gone. Once the new monorail
          is up and running it, too, will be familiar and we'd
          miss it if it were gone. The few times I'm able to go
          to Westlake Center, I'll eat a meal at the food court
          and sit next to the windows so I can watch the
          monorail go in and of the station.

          --- Michael Taylor-Judd <monorail@...> wrote:

          > I assume the proposal would have to come from the
          > agency. The City Council also has the power to put
          > something on the ballot, but I don't think it would
          > be
          > binding on the agency. And then they'd have to pay
          > for
          > it instead of the agency.
          >
          > --- johnnycakessea <stewartj@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > ---------------------------------
          > The question I have about this - having had it
          > brought
          > up to me by a
          > couple folks already today who aren't normally this
          > involved in the
          > Monorail - is as follows:
          >
          > Assume we want to revote on the financing options.
          > What's the process?
          > I don't want the City Council to make the decision,
          > I
          > want a popular
          > vote. Do we have to run a citywide initiative?
          >
          > --- In friendsofthemonorail@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel
          > Ahlstrom"
          > <danstrom@m...> wrote:
          > >
          > > beat me to it again -- I was just about to post a
          > message along these
          > > lines.
          > >
          > > when I get a chance later today I will be looking
          > at
          > the finance plan
          > > to see if it contains enough info for we laypeople
          > to answer the
          > > following questions (or whether this is so
          > detailed
          > that only SMP
          > > insiders would really have enough data to answer
          > it):
          > >
          > > * how much of the cost of financing is "excessive"
          > (i.e. due to
          > > stringing out the financing for longer than usual)
          > and could be readily
          > > mitigated by increasing the MVET (or other tax)?
          > >
          > > * how much MVET increase would be
          > necessary/suitable
          > to bring the
          > > financing down to a reasonable & customary level?
          > how about one of the
          > > other tax types that would provide funds in the
          > early years to
          > > supplement the low-in-early-years MVET?
          > >
          > >
          > > if someone else were to do the same, we could
          > compare notes. it's
          > > likely a complicated question.
          > >
          > >
          > > --- In friendsofthemonorail@yahoogroups.com, "Gary
          > Powell"
          > > <powellg@a...> wrote:
          > > > Here's my call on the revote.
          > > >
          > > > Offer two options,
          > > >
          > > > 1) Keep the current tax plan,
          > > > 2) Increase the MVET to the point that the bonds
          > are no longer junk
          > > > and that the debt service is 25 years.
          > > >
          > > > This assumes that the vote on whether to build
          > or
          > not is already done.
          > > > it was Build it! Now that the price tag is here,
          > give folks the chance
          > > > to pay for it in a reasonable amount of time.
          > > >
          > > > The "off track" folks will still whine but they
          > they already lost
          > > > whether to build or not.
          > > >
          > > > Yours,
          > > > -Gary-
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
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        • Maggie Spillers
          Thank you for the link to the NY Times column. I love FDR s quote. ...
          Message 4 of 15 , Jun 23, 2005
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            Thank you for the link to the NY Times column. I love
            FDR's quote.

            --- Mitch Gitman <mmgitman@...> wrote:

            > --- raia1us <jpsher@...> wrote:
            > > $8.26B of the payments come between 2039 - 2050 -
            > so
            > > the majority are
            > > low value bucks - you know $12 single shorts.
            > >
            >
            >
            > Peter, thanks for clarifying this, as does the SMP's
            > latest update.
            >
            > Y'know, in retrospect, maybe it's a little bit of
            > putting the cart before the horse to start talking
            > just yet about supplementing the revenue flow, even
            > though I don't understand why others are looking
            > only
            > to the Seattle taxpayers.
            >
            > At this point, it really all comes down to the City
            > Council. The council has charged itself with
            > ensuring
            > that the project is financially feasible, and when
            > you
            > consider that the big bucks get paid late, I think
            > it
            > all works out. Ultimately, this is merely about
            > granting the the monorail project the right of way.
            >
            > This is not about the monorail project's existence.
            > It's not about revisiting the entire debate, "Should
            > we or shouldn't we build monorail?" It's not about
            > column sizes or funding the viaduct or competing
            > transit technologies. It's not about putting your
            > finger to the wind of public opinion outside the
            > context of an upcoming election. And it's sure as
            > heck
            > not about the opinion of people living in Sammamish
            > or
            > some other time zone even. (For Chad to start citing
            > an unscientific "poll" on a newspaper Web site just
            > shows how little credibility he deserves.)
            >
            > Still, I can understand why Seattle residents would
            > be
            > freaked out by $11 billion, even with the legitimate
            > explanations, and why if a scientific survey of
            > Seattle voters was conducted at this moment the
            > monorail might not be too popular. But you know
            > what,
            > if we had to be subjected to yet another yes/no
            > November monorail election (if our elected leaders
            > just want to abdicate their responsibility), I'm
            > confident the monorail would win.
            >
            > Opinion columnist David Brooks of The New York TImes
            > just wrote a fine column, "Iraq and the Polls."
            > Whether you agree with the Iraq war or not, you
            > might
            > appreciate Brooks' point. The piece begins: "There's
            > a
            > reason George Washington didn't take a poll at
            > Valley
            > Forge." It ends with a quote made by Franklin D.
            > Roosevelt during World War II: ""Your government has
            > unmistakable confidence in your ability to hear the
            > worst, without flinching or losing heart...."
            >
            http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/23/opinion/23brooks.html?n=Top%2fOpinion%2fEditorials%20and%20Op%2dEd%2fOp%2dEd%2fColumnists%2fDavid%20Brooks
            >
            >
            >
            > ____________________________________________________
            >
            > Yahoo! Sports
            > Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football
            >
            > http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com
            >




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          • seattleskys
            For some reason I get the feeling that the City Council and monorail will weather the storm and begin construction of the Green Line in some fashion in the
            Message 5 of 15 , Jun 24, 2005
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              For some reason I get the feeling that the City Council and monorail
              will weather the storm and begin construction of the Green Line in
              some fashion in the near future.
            • bill_11hanson
              The CC won t be a problem. They will look at only whether there is enough $$ for construction and 5 years of operations. There will be PLENTY of money for
              Message 6 of 15 , Jun 24, 2005
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                The CC won't be a problem. They will look at only whether there is
                enough $$ for construction and 5 years of operations. There will be
                PLENTY of money for that. In 2014 the second long-term debt tranche
                will occur. About $2.1B will have been obtained by then, which will
                provide more than enough cushion for the review.

                --- In friendsofthemonorail@yahoogroups.com, "seattleskys"
                <seattleskys@y...> wrote:
                > For some reason I get the feeling that the City Council and monorail
                > will weather the storm and begin construction of the Green Line in
                > some fashion in the near future.
              • greenlaker98103
                The SCC can expand the scope if they so desire -- they are in ultimate control of the permits, and they can consider whatever they want to in determining
                Message 7 of 15 , Jun 24, 2005
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                  The SCC can expand the scope if they so desire -- they are in ultimate
                  control of the permits, and they can consider whatever they want to in
                  determining whether or not to proceed with this project. There is
                  already discussion on the SCC about expanding the scope.


                  --- In friendsofthemonorail@yahoogroups.com, "bill_11hanson"
                  <bill_11hanson@y...> wrote:
                  > The CC won't be a problem. They will look at only whether there is
                  > enough $$ for construction and 5 years of operations. There will be
                  > PLENTY of money for that. In 2014 the second long-term debt tranche
                  > will occur. About $2.1B will have been obtained by then, which will
                  > provide more than enough cushion for the review.
                  >
                  > --- In friendsofthemonorail@yahoogroups.com, "seattleskys"
                  > <seattleskys@y...> wrote:
                  > > For some reason I get the feeling that the City Council and
                  monorail
                  > > will weather the storm and begin construction of the Green Line in
                  > > some fashion in the near future.
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