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RE: [Freshwater Aquariums] Re: Hello

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  • Eric Roberts
    We have an albino cory that is about 16 years old, giver or take a few years. I think my fiancé said it was twelve years old when we got it(as well as a 55
    Message 1 of 27 , Apr 22, 2007
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      We have an albino cory that is about 16 years old, giver or take a few
      years. I think my fiancé said it was twelve years old when we got it(as
      well as a 55 gallon tank and a few other fish) from her ex-hubby and that
      was 4 years ago.



      Eric



      PS…anyone see the segment on the Lake Malawi cichlids on the Fresh Water
      episode of Discovery Channel’s Planet earth? It was pretty cool…awesome
      series, if you haven’t been following it,

      From: freshwateraquariums@yahoogroups.com
      [mailto:freshwateraquariums@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Timlin
      Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 9:13 PM
      To: freshwateraquariums@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [Freshwater Aquariums] Re: Hello



      --- In freshwateraquariums@yahoogroups.com
      <mailto:freshwateraquariums%40yahoogroups.com> , Andrew wrote:
      > I was just wondering, what is veryone's oldest fish?

      My current oldest fish is a Silver Dollar that a friend gave me when
      he moved. I am not sure exactly how old it was when I got it, but
      estimate somewhere in the 6-12 month old range. I have now had it for
      a good 12 years or so.

      Patrick





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • jon.charron
      I am new to the group and I am just looking into starting up a small aquarium for my two boys. We want to start small, but there are so many products out
      Message 2 of 27 , Oct 11, 2008
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        I am new to the group and I am just looking into starting up a small
        aquarium for my two boys. We want to start small, but there are so
        many products out there. Anyone have anything good or bad to say about
        the biOrb aquariums? We aren't looking for anything too sophisticated,
        but something basic and interesting would be nice. We will probably
        just get some goldfish.
      • Patrick A. Timlin
        I am not familiar with biOrb aquariums but looking at their web site they seem like nothing more than larger bowls with a basic air driven sponge filter. Which
        Message 3 of 27 , Oct 13, 2008
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          I am not familiar with biOrb aquariums but looking at their web site they seem like nothing more than larger bowls with a basic air driven sponge filter. Which is fine, but they seem a bit pricey for what they are.

          The problem with Goldfish is that they really need a lot more room than people commonly think. The old notion of a 1-2 gallon bowl is basically a short term death trap for a goldfish and you really should be thinking of about 10 gallon PER adult sized goldfish (most goldfish sold are far from their top size, so don't let the small size in the store fool you). At a minimum, I would not start with anything less than 5 gallons per fish.

          That said, if I was going to get a biOrb for goldfish, I would get nothing under the 8 gallon model ($129) for a SINGLE goldfish or a min of the 16 gallon model ($209) for a pair.

          While the biOrb is an interesting looking tank, you can go with a more common rectangular tank for a lot less money. 10 gallon "kits" are often available, but really I would suggest you look for a 20 gallon kit or put it together yourself. Goldfish do not need heaters so all you really need is the tank itself, a cover with light is optional (goldfish are not jumpers), and some form of filtration. You can probably put together a 20 gallon basic setup for about half the price of the 8-gallon biOrb.

          If you do like the biOrb look and want to get one, and especially if you were eyeing the smaller ones due to price, I would think about different fish than goldfish for such a tank. Depending if you want to heat the tank or not, we can make suggestions based on heated/unheated and what size you are looking at.

          Patrick Timlin

          http://www.geocities.com/ptimlin/

          --- On Sat, 10/11/08, jon.charron <joncharron@...> wrote:
          From: jon.charron <joncharron@...>
          Subject: [Freshwater Aquariums] Hello
          To: freshwateraquariums@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Saturday, October 11, 2008, 1:34 PM











          I am new to the group and I am just looking into starting up a small

          aquarium for my two boys. We want to start small, but there are so

          many products out there. Anyone have anything good or bad to say about

          the biOrb aquariums? We aren't looking for anything too sophisticated,

          but something basic and interesting would be nice. We will probably

          just get some goldfish.


























          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Andrew
          Some good advice there. Just one slight disagreement/warning - single tailed goldfish will sometimes jump out of a tank. Fancy goldfish won t/can t jump with
          Message 4 of 27 , Oct 13, 2008
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            Some good advice there. Just one slight disagreement/warning - single tailed goldfish will sometimes jump out of a tank. Fancy goldfish won't/can't jump with their fat bellies, but the longer shaped, single tailed varieties have been known to end up on the floor! I remember years ago my grandad had a couple of goldfish in a fairly small tank with no lid and they jumped (can't remember if it was just one or whether they both ended up high and dry). After that a net was put over the tank. As stated, goldfish need more space than most pet shops say. If you do decide to get goldfish though you'll get a lot of enjoyment from them. I've kept fancies for over 20 years now and I still get a lot of enjoyment out of keeping them.
            >>
            The original message was:
            I am not familiar with biOrb aquariums but looking at their web site they seem like nothing more than larger bowls with a basic air driven sponge filter. Which is fine, but they seem a bit pricey for what they are.

            The problem with Goldfish is that they really need a lot more room than people commonly think. The old notion of a 1-2 gallon bowl is basically a short term death trap for a goldfish and you really should be thinking of about 10 gallon PER adult sized goldfish (most goldfish sold are far from their top size, so don't let the small size in the store fool you). At a minimum, I would not start with anything less than 5 gallons per fish.

            That said, if I was going to get a biOrb for goldfish, I would get nothing under the 8 gallon model ($129) for a SINGLE goldfish or a min of the 16 gallon model ($209) for a pair.

            While the biOrb is an interesting looking tank, you can go with a more common rectangular tank for a lot less money. 10 gallon "kits" are often available, but really I would suggest you look for a 20 gallon kit or put it together yourself. Goldfish do not need heaters so all you really need is the tank itself, a cover with light is optional (goldfish are not jumpers), and some form of filtration. You can probably put together a 20 gallon basic setup for about half the price of the 8-gallon biOrb.

            If you do like the biOrb look and want to get one, and especially if you were eyeing the smaller ones due to price, I would think about different fish than goldfish for such a tank. Depending if you want to heat the tank or not, we can make suggestions based on heated/unheated and what size you are looking at.

            Patrick Timlin

            http://www.geocities.com/ptimlin/

            --- On Sat, 10/11/08, jon.charron <joncharron@...> wrote:
            From: jon.charron <joncharron@...>
            Subject: [Freshwater Aquariums] Hello
            To: freshwateraquariums@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Saturday, October 11, 2008, 1:34 PM











            I am new to the group and I am just looking into starting up a small

            aquarium for my two boys. We want to start small, but there are so

            many products out there. Anyone have anything good or bad to say about

            the biOrb aquariums? We aren't looking for anything too sophisticated,

            but something basic and interesting would be nice. We will probably

            just get some goldfish.


























            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


            ------------------------------------

            Yahoo! Groups Links
          • Ladyelf
            I have to agree with Patrick on this. Just remember that goldfish are very, very dirty. The larger the tank the better for them and you do need a really good
            Message 5 of 27 , Oct 13, 2008
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              I have to agree with Patrick on this. Just remember that goldfish are very,
              very dirty. The larger the tank the better for them and you do need a
              really good form of filtration for them.

              Deb
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Patrick A. Timlin" <ptimlin@...>
              To: <freshwateraquariums@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 12:11 PM
              Subject: Re: [Freshwater Aquariums] Hello


              >I am not familiar with biOrb aquariums but looking at their web site they
              >seem like nothing more than larger bowls with a basic air driven sponge
              >filter. Which is fine, but they seem a bit pricey for what they are.
              >
              > The problem with Goldfish is that they really need a lot more room than
              > people commonly think. The old notion of a 1-2 gallon bowl is basically a
              > short term death trap for a goldfish and you really should be thinking of
              > about 10 gallon PER adult sized goldfish (most goldfish sold are far from
              > their top size, so don't let the small size in the store fool you). At a
              > minimum, I would not start with anything less than 5 gallons per fish.
              >
              > That said, if I was going to get a biOrb for goldfish, I would get nothing
              > under the 8 gallon model ($129) for a SINGLE goldfish or a min of the 16
              > gallon model ($209) for a pair.
              >
              > While the biOrb is an interesting looking tank, you can go with a more
              > common rectangular tank for a lot less money. 10 gallon "kits" are often
              > available, but really I would suggest you look for a 20 gallon kit or put
              > it together yourself. Goldfish do not need heaters so all you really need
              > is the tank itself, a cover with light is optional (goldfish are not
              > jumpers), and some form of filtration. You can probably put together a 20
              > gallon basic setup for about half the price of the 8-gallon biOrb.
              >
              > If you do like the biOrb look and want to get one, and especially if you
              > were eyeing the smaller ones due to price, I would think about different
              > fish than goldfish for such a tank. Depending if you want to heat the tank
              > or not, we can make suggestions based on heated/unheated and what size you
              > are looking at.
              >
              > Patrick Timlin
              >
              > http://www.geocities.com/ptimlin/
              >
              > --- On Sat, 10/11/08, jon.charron <joncharron@...> wrote:
              > From: jon.charron <joncharron@...>
              > Subject: [Freshwater Aquariums] Hello
              > To: freshwateraquariums@yahoogroups.com
              > Date: Saturday, October 11, 2008, 1:34 PM
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              > I am new to the group and I am just looking into starting up a
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              > aquarium for my two boys. We want to start small, but there are so
              >
              > many products out there. Anyone have anything good or bad to say about
              >
              > the biOrb aquariums? We aren't looking for anything too sophisticated,
              >
              > but something basic and interesting would be nice. We will probably
              >
              > just get some goldfish.
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              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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              > ------------------------------------
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            • William
              In my humble opinion, I would not put a fancy (double tailed one) goldfish in anything less than 20 gallons for the first one and 10 gallons for each
              Message 6 of 27 , Oct 14, 2008
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                In my humble opinion, I would not put a fancy (double tailed one)
                goldfish in anything less than 20 gallons for the first one and 10
                gallons for each additional one to make sure that they have enough
                room to grow to their full size and life span. That along with the
                needed water changes and good feeding will help to ensure that the
                fish will live long healthy lifespans that you can enjoy instead of
                making the fish suffer a slow and (probably) painful death. Can you
                imagine if you had to live in a closet with several other people and
                not have a toilet but only a container to use and when the "owner"
                wanted to he/she would empty this container. You would also have to
                be at his/her mercy to feed you and in that small place you would not
                be able to exercise like you should.Since goldfish are dirty fish
                they tent to pollute the water very fast and that is one reason to
                have the larger tanks to be able to keep the pollution for building
                up too fast between water changes.

                --- In freshwateraquariums@yahoogroups.com, "jon.charron"
                <joncharron@...> wrote:
                >
                > I am new to the group and I am just looking into starting up a
                small
                > aquarium for my two boys. We want to start small, but there are so
                > many products out there. Anyone have anything good or bad to say
                about
                > the biOrb aquariums? We aren't looking for anything too
                sophisticated,
                > but something basic and interesting would be nice. We will
                probably
                > just get some goldfish.
                >
              • jon.charron
                Thanks for the advice everyone. We don t have to get goldfish, but just wanted to get low maintenance fish. I am certainly open to suggestions on fish that
                Message 7 of 27 , Oct 25, 2008
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                  Thanks for the advice everyone. We don't have to get goldfish, but
                  just wanted to get low maintenance fish. I am certainly open to
                  suggestions on fish that can work without a heater. If we wanted to
                  heat the water, how would we do it if we buy an acrylic aquarium?

                  Assume I know nothing and you would be correct.

                  --- In freshwateraquariums@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick A. Timlin"
                  <ptimlin@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I am not familiar with biOrb aquariums but looking at their web
                  site they seem like nothing more than larger bowls with a basic air
                  driven sponge filter. Which is fine, but they seem a bit pricey for
                  what they are.
                  >
                  > The problem with Goldfish is that they really need a lot more room
                  than people commonly think. The old notion of a 1-2 gallon bowl is
                  basically a short term death trap for a goldfish and you really
                  should be thinking of about 10 gallon PER adult sized goldfish (most
                  goldfish sold are far from their top size, so don't let the small
                  size in the store fool you). At a minimum, I would not start with
                  anything less than 5 gallons per fish.
                  >
                  > That said, if I was going to get a biOrb for goldfish, I would get
                  nothing under the 8 gallon model ($129) for a SINGLE goldfish or a
                  min of the 16 gallon model ($209) for a pair.
                  >
                  > While the biOrb is an interesting looking tank, you can go with a
                  more common rectangular tank for a lot less money. 10 gallon "kits"
                  are often available, but really I would suggest you look for a 20
                  gallon kit or put it together yourself. Goldfish do not need heaters
                  so all you really need is the tank itself, a cover with light is
                  optional (goldfish are not jumpers), and some form of filtration. You
                  can probably put together a 20 gallon basic setup for about half the
                  price of the 8-gallon biOrb.
                  >
                  > If you do like the biOrb look and want to get one, and especially
                  if you were eyeing the smaller ones due to price, I would think about
                  different fish than goldfish for such a tank. Depending if you want
                  to heat the tank or not, we can make suggestions based on
                  heated/unheated and what size you are looking at.
                  >
                  > Patrick Timlin
                  >
                  > http://www.geocities.com/ptimlin/
                • William
                  Paradise fish are a fish that do not require a heater (they can live in water as cool as 60 and possible lower). If you wish to heat the tank then get a
                  Message 8 of 27 , Oct 25, 2008
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                    Paradise fish are a fish that do not require a heater (they can live in
                    water as cool as 60 and possible lower). If you wish to heat the tank
                    then get a submersible heater with suction cups to hold the heater away
                    from the side or bottom.

                    --- In freshwateraquariums@yahoogroups.com, "jon.charron"
                    <joncharron@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Thanks for the advice everyone. We don't have to get goldfish, but
                    > just wanted to get low maintenance fish. I am certainly open to
                    > suggestions on fish that can work without a heater. If we wanted to
                    > heat the water, how would we do it if we buy an acrylic aquarium?
                    >
                    > Assume I know nothing and you would be correct.
                    >
                  • Dan
                    now worries regular old heater would do it
                    Message 9 of 27 , Oct 26, 2008
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                      now worries
                      regular old heater would do it
                    • Patrick A. Timlin
                      Most common fish are pretty low maintenance. Really you are maintaining the aquarium, so unless you buy a fish species that has special needs, for the most
                      Message 10 of 27 , Oct 26, 2008
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                        Most common fish are pretty low maintenance. Really you are maintaining the aquarium, so unless you buy a fish species that has special needs, for the most part your maintenance will be the same on the tank regardless if you get a goldfish or a dozen neon tetras.

                        As William pointed out, Paradise fish are an excellent choice for unheated tanks. I suggest not keeping them in anything less than about 2 gallons and not keeping any more than a single one as they tend to fight with their own kind. You can keep them with other fish, but pick fish that swim well so if the paradise fish wants to get nipping, they can avoid him most of the time.

                        Any aquarium heater will be fine. My one main bit of advice on heaters is get a submergible one, not the clip on type. The clip on ones are junk and it isn't if they will fail, but WHEN. And they fail by sticking in the ON position and cook your fish. Submersibles are very affordable if you go mail order.

                        Advantages of going with a NON-heated tank include not having to buy and have a heater in the tank, lower energy use & less water evaporation (especially in Winter). But one disadvantage is their tend to be a lot less choices when considering standard "tropical fish" sold at pet stores.

                        Good choices for unheated tanks include Goldfish, Rosy Reds (normally sold as feeder fish and these are actually North American Native "Fat head" minnows), feeder (non-fancy) guppies, Zebra Danios, Rosy Barbs, Paradise fish, and White Clouds (aka "Mountain Minnows).

                        Patrick Timlin

                        http://www.geocities.com/ptimlin/

                        --- On Sat, 10/25/08, jon.charron <joncharron@...> wrote:
                        From: jon.charron <joncharron@...>
                        Subject: [Freshwater Aquariums] Re: Hello
                        To: freshwateraquariums@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Saturday, October 25, 2008, 11:09 AM











                        Thanks for the advice everyone. We don't have to get goldfish, but

                        just wanted to get low maintenance fish. I am certainly open to

                        suggestions on fish that can work without a heater. If we wanted to

                        heat the water, how would we do it if we buy an acrylic aquarium?



                        Assume I know nothing and you would be correct.




















                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • blue_lkb
                        Patrick, I saw your mention of aquarium heaters, and was wondering if you have some suggestions on where to shop for one? ... heaters is get a submergible one,
                        Message 11 of 27 , Oct 28, 2008
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                          Patrick,

                          I saw your mention of aquarium heaters, and was wondering if you have
                          some suggestions on where to shop for one?

                          > Any aquarium heater will be fine. My one main bit of advice on
                          heaters is get a submergible one, not the clip on type. The clip on
                          ones are junk and it isn't if they will fail, but WHEN. And they fail
                          by sticking in the ON position and cook your fish. Submersibles are
                          very affordable if you go mail order.

                          And you're absolutely right! We bought a clip-on one for my
                          daughter's 10 gallon tank and it failed within a couple of months!
                          Annoying...

                          I hadn't seen any other types in local pet stores (not surprising, I
                          guess) so I didn't realize there were other ones/better ones out
                          there. Now that I know, I think I'll try to switch over to those.

                          Also, on the topic of better quality tank equipment...can you
                          recommend better filters for a fish tank? I have the cheapy ones that
                          hang on the back of the tank, but I have read that they aren't really
                          that great and I'd like to eventually replace all the filters with
                          better quality ones that do a better job.

                          On a positive note...I haven't had a fish die in a long time!!
                          Wheee! I gave up on bettas and dwarf gourami (he passed away, which
                          was a huge bummer because I really, really liked him) and now I just
                          have the zebra danios, cory cats, otto cats, black Kuhli loaches, etc
                          (aside from the one male betta in the ten gallon tank; he is doing
                          fine). I decided it just wasn't worth it to keep buying them and
                          having them pass away...not fun for us and certainly not for the
                          fish. Although, I still really like the dwarf gouramis and
                          bettas...oh, well!

                          Best regards,

                          Laura
                        • Patrick A. Timlin
                          I usually use Drs. Smith & Foster or That Fish Place. I have only heard good things about Big Al s but no first hand experience. All three seem to be fairly
                          Message 12 of 27 , Oct 29, 2008
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                            I usually use Drs. Smith & Foster or That Fish Place. I have only heard good things about Big Al's but no first hand experience. All three seem to be fairly close in pricing and the difference usually comes down to shipping costs.

                            Generally local stores will charge $10-$15 for the crappy clip on type and then large mark up of about $20-$35 for most submersibles. But when you shop online, most submersibles start at the same $10-$15 range that the local stores charge for the crappy clip on models. I generally go with the Jager line myself, but there are a number of other good ones you can choose from.

                            As to filters, I wouldn't generalize and say all hang on the back filters are junk. For smaller tanks, my personal preference has been the AquaClear line for many years now. Primarily because they are cheap, durable, and you can run different media in them rather than being locked into an expensive, short lived, proprietary cartridge type system. With the AquaClear line, I only run sponges in mine (I just use two sponges rather than a sponge and carbon). The sponges get rinsed out periodically and reused. I have sponges that I have been using continuously longer than some of my kids have been alive!

                            For the Aquaclear line, and probably most other brands of hang on the back filters, I find the manufacturer tends to be much to optimistic as to the size tank you can effectively run them on, unless you super understock the tank. So in general, I tend to half the recommended size printed on the box. So a model sized for "5-20 gallons" will go on nothing larger than a 10 gallon tank on my tanks. I think that is where you might be finding a deficiency, undersized filter for the tank and also if you a model using thin cartridges.

                            For larger tanks, say 30-ish gallons and up, I prefer canister filters, but often still run a small hang on the back if I need extra water movement, as well as a convenient place to quickly add carbon in an emergency.

                            Patrick Timlin

                            http://www.geocities.com/ptimlin/

                            --- On Tue, 10/28/08, blue_lkb <blue_lkb@...> wrote:
                            From: blue_lkb <blue_lkb@...>
                            Subject: [Freshwater Aquariums] Re: Hello
                            To: freshwateraquariums@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Tuesday, October 28, 2008, 6:26 PM











                            Patrick,



                            I saw your mention of aquarium heaters, and was wondering if you have

                            some suggestions on where to shop for one?



                            > Any aquarium heater will be fine. My one main bit of advice on

                            heaters is get a submergible one, not the clip on type. The clip on

                            ones are junk and it isn't if they will fail, but WHEN. And they fail

                            by sticking in the ON position and cook your fish. Submersibles are

                            very affordable if you go mail order.



                            And you're absolutely right! We bought a clip-on one for my

                            daughter's 10 gallon tank and it failed within a couple of months!

                            Annoying...



                            I hadn't seen any other types in local pet stores (not surprising, I

                            guess) so I didn't realize there were other ones/better ones out

                            there. Now that I know, I think I'll try to switch over to those.



                            Also, on the topic of better quality tank equipment... can you

                            recommend better filters for a fish tank? I have the cheapy ones that

                            hang on the back of the tank, but I have read that they aren't really

                            that great and I'd like to eventually replace all the filters with

                            better quality ones that do a better job.



                            On a positive note...I haven't had a fish die in a long time!!

                            Wheee! I gave up on bettas and dwarf gourami (he passed away, which

                            was a huge bummer because I really, really liked him) and now I just

                            have the zebra danios, cory cats, otto cats, black Kuhli loaches, etc

                            (aside from the one male betta in the ten gallon tank; he is doing

                            fine). I decided it just wasn't worth it to keep buying them and

                            having them pass away...not fun for us and certainly not for the

                            fish. Although, I still really like the dwarf gouramis and

                            bettas...oh, well!



                            Best regards,



                            Laura


























                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Eric Roberts
                            I like the emperor filters. I have 2 400 s on my 55 gallon and the tanks stays nice and clean.I even put some pothos in the filter reservoir to make them look
                            Message 13 of 27 , Oct 29, 2008
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                              I like the emperor filters. I have 2 400's on my 55 gallon and the tanks
                              stays nice and clean.I even put some pothos in the filter reservoir to make
                              them look nicer :-D Bamboo would look nice too. That also adds extra
                              filtration as the plants use the waste material in the water as fertilizer.



                              Eric



                              _____

                              From: freshwateraquariums@yahoogroups.com
                              [mailto:freshwateraquariums@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Patrick A. Timlin
                              Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:46 AM
                              To: freshwateraquariums@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [Freshwater Aquariums] Re: Hello



                              I usually use Drs. Smith & Foster or That Fish Place. I have only heard good
                              things about Big Al's but no first hand experience. All three seem to be
                              fairly close in pricing and the difference usually comes down to shipping
                              costs.

                              Generally local stores will charge $10-$15 for the crappy clip on type and
                              then large mark up of about $20-$35 for most submersibles. But when you shop
                              online, most submersibles start at the same $10-$15 range that the local
                              stores charge for the crappy clip on models. I generally go with the Jager
                              line myself, but there are a number of other good ones you can choose from.

                              As to filters, I wouldn't generalize and say all hang on the back filters
                              are junk. For smaller tanks, my personal preference has been the AquaClear
                              line for many years now. Primarily because they are cheap, durable, and you
                              can run different media in them rather than being locked into an expensive,
                              short lived, proprietary cartridge type system. With the AquaClear line, I
                              only run sponges in mine (I just use two sponges rather than a sponge and
                              carbon). The sponges get rinsed out periodically and reused. I have sponges
                              that I have been using continuously longer than some of my kids have been
                              alive!

                              For the Aquaclear line, and probably most other brands of hang on the back
                              filters, I find the manufacturer tends to be much to optimistic as to the
                              size tank you can effectively run them on, unless you super understock the
                              tank. So in general, I tend to half the recommended size printed on the box.
                              So a model sized for "5-20 gallons" will go on nothing larger than a 10
                              gallon tank on my tanks. I think that is where you might be finding a
                              deficiency, undersized filter for the tank and also if you a model using
                              thin cartridges.

                              For larger tanks, say 30-ish gallons and up, I prefer canister filters, but
                              often still run a small hang on the back if I need extra water movement, as
                              well as a convenient place to quickly add carbon in an emergency.

                              Patrick Timlin

                              http://www.geocitie <http://www.geocities.com/ptimlin/> s.com/ptimlin/

                              --- On Tue, 10/28/08, blue_lkb <blue_lkb@yahoo.
                              <mailto:blue_lkb%40yahoo.com> com> wrote:
                              From: blue_lkb <blue_lkb@yahoo. <mailto:blue_lkb%40yahoo.com> com>
                              Subject: [Freshwater Aquariums] Re: Hello
                              To: freshwateraquariums <mailto:freshwateraquariums%40yahoogroups.com>
                              @yahoogroups.com
                              Date: Tuesday, October 28, 2008, 6:26 PM

                              Patrick,

                              I saw your mention of aquarium heaters, and was wondering if you have

                              some suggestions on where to shop for one?

                              > Any aquarium heater will be fine. My one main bit of advice on

                              heaters is get a submergible one, not the clip on type. The clip on

                              ones are junk and it isn't if they will fail, but WHEN. And they fail

                              by sticking in the ON position and cook your fish. Submersibles are

                              very affordable if you go mail order.

                              And you're absolutely right! We bought a clip-on one for my

                              daughter's 10 gallon tank and it failed within a couple of months!

                              Annoying...

                              I hadn't seen any other types in local pet stores (not surprising, I

                              guess) so I didn't realize there were other ones/better ones out

                              there. Now that I know, I think I'll try to switch over to those.

                              Also, on the topic of better quality tank equipment... can you

                              recommend better filters for a fish tank? I have the cheapy ones that

                              hang on the back of the tank, but I have read that they aren't really

                              that great and I'd like to eventually replace all the filters with

                              better quality ones that do a better job.

                              On a positive note...I haven't had a fish die in a long time!!

                              Wheee! I gave up on bettas and dwarf gourami (he passed away, which

                              was a huge bummer because I really, really liked him) and now I just

                              have the zebra danios, cory cats, otto cats, black Kuhli loaches, etc

                              (aside from the one male betta in the ten gallon tank; he is doing

                              fine). I decided it just wasn't worth it to keep buying them and

                              having them pass away...not fun for us and certainly not for the

                              fish. Although, I still really like the dwarf gouramis and

                              bettas...oh, well!

                              Best regards,

                              Laura











                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • William
                              The bamboo is not a true aquatic plant so I would find a true aqutic plant that will not die easily in your tank to act as a filter such as water sprite which
                              Message 14 of 27 , Oct 30, 2008
                              • 0 Attachment
                                The bamboo is not a true aquatic plant so I would find a true aqutic
                                plant that will not die easily in your tank to act as a filter such as
                                water sprite which you can either let it float or plant it.


                                --- In freshwateraquariums@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Roberts" <woad@...>
                                wrote:
                                >
                                > I like the emperor filters. I have 2 400's on my 55 gallon and the
                                tanks
                                > stays nice and clean.I even put some pothos in the filter reservoir
                                to make
                                > them look nicer :-D Bamboo would look nice too. That also adds extra
                                > filtration as the plants use the waste material in the water as
                                fertilizer.
                              • blue_lkb
                                Hi Patrick, Finally got a little time to check out those sites you mentioned, to look for a better heater. Also found some other stuff I have to have
                                Message 15 of 27 , Nov 8, 2008
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Hi Patrick,

                                  Finally got a little time to check out those sites you mentioned, to
                                  look for a better heater. Also found some other stuff I "have" to
                                  have now...lol.

                                  The Jager line heaters I saw on That Fish Place looked like clip-ons.
                                  Below is a link to the pages listing heaters that Drs. Smith & Foster
                                  or That Fish Place have. Can you recommend a model on there? I don't
                                  want to buy a piece of junk that's going to fail again. Also, what do
                                  you think of the ones that you put under the substrate??

                                  http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/cat/info/23891/category.web
                                  http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/pet_supplies.cfm?c=3578+3743
                                  >
                                  > As to filters, I wouldn't generalize and say all hang on the back
                                  filters are junk. For smaller tanks, my personal preference has been
                                  the AquaClear line for many years now.

                                  I tried to find the brand on my filter and couldn't. It came with my
                                  55 gallon tank, which I bought used, so I'm not sure which brand it
                                  is.

                                  Could this be why I'm having trouble keeping my nitrates low? I can
                                  occasionally get them around 10ppm, but not usually; usually they are
                                  at 20, sometimes 20-40. I've tried changing 20% of the water every 3
                                  days and haven't really had much luck. I thought I had read that it's
                                  best to keep nitrates below 10ppm - ? I vacuum the gravel when I
                                  clean it (since I've had the oto cats, etc., even though I only have
                                  2, they seem to keep the algae cleaned up really well so I don't have
                                  to deal with cleaning the sides of the tank) and change at least 20%
                                  of the water, sometimes a little more. My tanks aren't overstocked -
                                  55 gallon has around 8 zebra danios (I lost some since I originally
                                  put them in and they are zippy little guys, so I have a lot of
                                  trouble accurately counting them), give or take, 4 cory cats, 4 Kuhli
                                  loaches, 1 cherry barb and 2 oto cats. I also have plants, which I
                                  read help keep nitrates down but don't seem to be doing that. So
                                  perhaps I need another filter on my tanks?


                                  > also if you a model using thin cartridges.

                                  Yep, mine does.

                                  Thanks!

                                  Best regards,

                                  Laura
                                • Patrick A. Timlin
                                  Ebo Jagers are fully submersible and are not clip ons. They do come with a pair of suction cups to attach it to the side of the aquarium (and like all suction
                                  Message 16 of 27 , Nov 9, 2008
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Ebo Jagers are fully submersible and are not clip ons. They do come with a pair of suction cups to attach it to the side of the aquarium (and like all suction cups in aquariums, will stop working in about 6 months).

                                    VisaTherms have a long popular track record and are a good brand to try.

                                    I don't have a lot of experience with many other brands since my Ebo Jagers tend to last forever and I rarely need to buy new heaters.

                                    Your Nitrate levels sound perfectly fine. Nitrates are pretty much always in the tank and it is only the people with super heavily planted tank that sometimes actually have to supplement nitrates for the plants. Shooting for under 10 ppm is not usually possible. Most tanks are around 10-20ppm AFTER a water change. Many common hardy fish can tolerate levels close to 100 although I wouldn't recommend that long term. But to see your nitrates go as high as, say, 50-60ppm before a water change would probably be typical. You can of course change more water or do it more often or both and shoot to never let the levels get above, say, 25-30ppm, but I don't think trying to keep it under 10ppm is realistic unless you have a lot of plants and/or stock very lightly. Your set up sounds fine.

                                    Patrick Timlin

                                    http://www.geocities.com/ptimlin/

                                    --- On Sat, 11/8/08, blue_lkb <blue_lkb@...> wrote:
                                    From: blue_lkb <blue_lkb@...>
                                    Subject: [Freshwater Aquariums] Re: Hello
                                    To: freshwateraquariums@yahoogroups.com
                                    Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 1:06 PM











                                    Hi Patrick,



                                    Finally got a little time to check out those sites you mentioned, to

                                    look for a better heater. Also found some other stuff I "have" to

                                    have now...lol.



                                    The Jager line heaters I saw on That Fish Place looked like clip-ons.

                                    Below is a link to the pages listing heaters that Drs. Smith & Foster

                                    or That Fish Place have. Can you recommend a model on there? I don't

                                    want to buy a piece of junk that's going to fail again. Also, what do

                                    you think of the ones that you put under the substrate??



                                    http://www.thatpetp lace.com/ pet/cat/info/ 23891/category. web

                                    http://www.drsfoste rsmith.com/ product/pet_ supplies. cfm?c=3578+ 3743

                                    >

                                    > As to filters, I wouldn't generalize and say all hang on the back

                                    filters are junk. For smaller tanks, my personal preference has been

                                    the AquaClear line for many years now.



                                    I tried to find the brand on my filter and couldn't. It came with my

                                    55 gallon tank, which I bought used, so I'm not sure which brand it

                                    is.



                                    Could this be why I'm having trouble keeping my nitrates low? I can

                                    occasionally get them around 10ppm, but not usually; usually they are

                                    at 20, sometimes 20-40. I've tried changing 20% of the water every 3

                                    days and haven't really had much luck. I thought I had read that it's

                                    best to keep nitrates below 10ppm - ? I vacuum the gravel when I

                                    clean it (since I've had the oto cats, etc., even though I only have

                                    2, they seem to keep the algae cleaned up really well so I don't have

                                    to deal with cleaning the sides of the tank) and change at least 20%

                                    of the water, sometimes a little more. My tanks aren't overstocked -

                                    55 gallon has around 8 zebra danios (I lost some since I originally

                                    put them in and they are zippy little guys, so I have a lot of

                                    trouble accurately counting them), give or take, 4 cory cats, 4 Kuhli

                                    loaches, 1 cherry barb and 2 oto cats. I also have plants, which I

                                    read help keep nitrates down but don't seem to be doing that. So

                                    perhaps I need another filter on my tanks?



                                    > also if you a model using thin cartridges.



                                    Yep, mine does.



                                    Thanks!



                                    Best regards,



                                    Laura


























                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • blue_lkb
                                    Hi Patrick, Thanks again, I will check into those heaters and probably buy a couple. ... Oh, awesome! I was kind of concerned about that, since the only
                                    Message 17 of 27 , Nov 9, 2008
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Hi Patrick,

                                      Thanks again, I will check into those heaters and probably buy a
                                      couple.

                                      > Your Nitrate levels sound perfectly fine.

                                      Oh, awesome! I was kind of concerned about that, since the only
                                      definitive info I'd read said something like under 10ppm and I just
                                      could not get it close to that. I guess I can stop worrying now.

                                      Best regards,

                                      Laura
                                    • Tom Reagin
                                      How high is too high for NitrAtes?  Realistically how low can they be controlled? Thomas G. Reagin, O.D. 104 Church Street Decatur, GA 30030 Voice
                                      Message 18 of 27 , Nov 10, 2008
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        How high is too high for NitrAtes?  Realistically how low can they be controlled?

                                        Thomas G. Reagin, O.D.
                                        104 Church Street
                                        Decatur, GA 30030

                                        Voice (404)378-3694
                                        Fax (404)373-0741






                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Patrick A. Timlin
                                        ... Unfortunately this isn t an easy question to answer because it depends on the species of fish you keep. For example, fish that come from slow moving bodies
                                        Message 19 of 27 , Nov 11, 2008
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          --- On Mon, 11/10/08, Tom Reagin <tgreagin@...> wrote:
                                          > How high is too high for NitrAtes?

                                          Unfortunately this isn't an easy question to answer because it depends on the species of fish you keep. For example, fish that come from slow moving bodies of water (ponds, small lakes, etc.) or from small bodies of water (rice paddies, etc.) will have a much higher tolerance to nitrates than fish that come from fast moving cleaner bodies of water like streams (since the water is constantly turning over in a stream).

                                          So you will find, for example, a fish like Tiger Barbs or Bettas to not really care about nitrate levels if they don't get too extreme. While fish like Clown Loaches are not very tolerant of higher nitrates.

                                          In addition, fish fry are generally more effected by nitrates than older fish, so you want to keep tanks with growing fry low in nitrates with plenty of water changes.

                                          Depending on the fish species, the upper limit of nitrate could be anywhere from 40-60ppm to as high as well over 100 ppm of nitrates, although I wouldn't suggest you allow your tanks to get that high, just that if they did, your tank of Tiger Barbs (for example) would probably be fine, but your tank of Clown Loaches would be in trouble.


                                          > Realistically how low can they be controlled?

                                          Again that depends on how much water changing you do, if you keep a lot of live plants, and how good your water is to begin with. You could keep your nitrates at near zero if you did a combo of any of understocked the tank, fed lightly, kept live plants, and changed water frequently. My comment before about having a tank hovering in the 20-50ppm range normally was considering your standard home aquarium, stocked fully, water changes of only 10-20% on a weekly basis, well fed daily, and little to no live plants.

                                          And my comment about how good your water is to begin with means does your tap water have nitrates in it already. Here in the USA, most of our water supplies are low or ascent of nitrates and I think we have EPA mandated low limits allowed. On the other hand, in the UK for example, it wouldn't be uncommon to measure 10+ppm of nitrate right out of the tap. So in a case like that, without live plants to take up some of the nitrates, you couldn't get the tank below 10 with water changes alone, not matter how much you changed.

                                          Patrick Timlin
                                          http://www.geocities.com/ptimlin/
                                        • Tom Reagin
                                          Thanks, well thought out reply! Thomas G. Reagin, O.D. 104 Church Street Decatur, GA 30030 Voice (404)378-3694 Fax (404)373-0741 [Non-text portions of this
                                          Message 20 of 27 , Nov 12, 2008
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Thanks, well thought out reply!

                                            Thomas G. Reagin, O.D.
                                            104 Church Street
                                            Decatur, GA 30030

                                            Voice (404)378-3694
                                            Fax (404)373-0741






                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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