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Re: Please help with kidney problems

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  • jersey2cats
    ... Diane H., Do you feel better since the chelation and kidney cleanse? I have had kidney pain on and off but not recently.
    Message 1 of 23 , Jul 31, 2009
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      --- In frequent-dose-chelation@yahoogroups.com, Diane Hendee <diane_hendee@...> wrote:
      >
      > Diane,
      > I was wondering if you have kidney pain?  I had kidney pain beginning shortly after having eight mercury fillings replaced with composite.   This pain continued for three months until I did the Hulda Clark kidney cleanse found here on Dean's web site:http://www.livingnetwork.co.za/drclarknetwork/kidney_cleanse.html
      >   My test results were serum creatinine 1.04 and GFR 56 which was slightly out of range.  These results were before beginning chelation and before the kidney cleanse.  I have not retested since to see if chelation has changed anything.  I hope you are able to find something that works for you.
      > Diane H.



      Diane H.,

      Do you feel better since the chelation and kidney cleanse? I have had kidney pain on and off but not recently.
    • Diane Hendee
      Yes, I had much improvement on the kidney cleanse.  After removal of my fillings I had kidney pain for about three months until I did the cleanse and within
      Message 2 of 23 , Aug 1, 2009
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        Yes, I had much improvement on the kidney cleanse.  After removal of my fillings I had kidney pain for about three months until I did the cleanse and within three days of starting the cleanse my pain was gone.  (I did a total of about three weeks on the cleanse)  I know what works for one person may not work for someone else but it did help me.  I have only been able to do five rounds of chelation since I am dealing with adrenal problems and family scheduling.  I hope to be able to try chelation again within the next few weeks.  If you decide to do this make sure you get fresh herbs, that is important.  This is where I ordered mine:http://www.mountainroseherbs.com/
        Best wishes for improvement.Diane H.

        --- On Fri, 7/31/09, jersey2cats <dsstreak@...> wrote:

        From: jersey2cats <dsstreak@...>
        Subject: [frequent-dose-chelation] Re: Please help with kidney problems
        To: frequent-dose-chelation@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 7:29 PM













         





        --- In frequent-dose- chelation@ yahoogroups. com, Diane Hendee <diane_hendee@ ...> wrote:

        >

        > Diane,

        > I was wondering if you have kidney pain?  I had kidney pain beginning shortly after having eight mercury fillings replaced with composite.   This pain continued for three months until I did the Hulda Clark kidney cleanse found here on Dean's web site:http://www.livingne twork.co. za/drclarknetwor k/kidney_ cleanse.html

        >   My test results were serum creatinine 1.04 and GFR 56 which was slightly out of range.  These results were before beginning chelation and before the kidney cleanse.  I have not retested since to see if chelation has changed anything.  I hope you are able to find something that works for you.

        > Diane H.



        Diane H.,



        Do you feel better since the chelation and kidney cleanse? I have had kidney pain on and off but not recently.


































        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • jersey2cats
        ... I have tried combinations of almost everything. I was on Naturthroid with some T4 for a very long time. I have autoimmune thyroid. My antibodies are down
        Message 3 of 23 , Aug 1, 2009
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          --- In frequent-dose-chelation@yahoogroups.com, "andrewhallcutler" <AndyCutler@...> wrote:

          > Have you tried T3/T4 preparations, or only the T4 ones like synthroid and levoxyl?

          I have tried combinations of almost everything. I was on Naturthroid with some T4 for a very long time. I have autoimmune thyroid. My antibodies are down now either because of chelation or possibly a gluten free diet. I now know I also have a reverse T3 issue. However, Cytomel makes me racy then crash. I have a very high metabolism so I think I use and clear it too quickly. I'm thinking of trying timed release. I did not know about the GFR related to hypo; the high creatnine would only be caused by kidney problems though right?


          > > > <a href="http://www.noamalgam.com/index.html">Amalgam Illness: Diagnosis and Treatment</a >
          > > >
          > > > <a href="http://www.noamalgam.com/hairtestbook.html">Hair Test Interpretation: Finding Hidden Toxicities</a >
          > > >
          > > > <a href="http://www.noamalgam.com/nourishinghope.html">Nourishing Hope for Autism: Nutrition Intervention for Healing Our Children</a >
          > > >
          > > > <a href="http://www.noamalgam.com/biologicaltreatments.html">Biological Treatments for Autism and PDD</a >
          > > >
          > >
          >
        • sallyflowers888
          It sounds strongly to me that you have severe adrenal problems causing you not to be able to tolerate T3 as well as creating the RT-3 problem. Your body is
          Message 4 of 23 , Aug 1, 2009
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            It sounds strongly to me that you have severe adrenal problems causing you not to be able to tolerate T3 as well as creating the
            RT-3 problem. Your body is creating RT3 precisely because the adrenals are too challenged to handle the energy created from the T3; hence, it is turning it in to RT3 (which is how the body puts the breaks on)

            This was explained to me by Dr Rind as the same problem I had. I discovered him because he is mentioned on the www.stopthethyroidmadness.com website. I consulted him after 2 other doctors couldn't help me.

            Synthroid, which I was initially put on for 4 months did absolutley nothing. Armour intially helped (for 3 wonderful days) until the exact same deadness descended as had occurred on Synthroid. I was about to go on T3 only to "clear" my RT3 problem as suggested by a new doctor I consulted and as so many on the stopthyroidmadness website suggested until i had a consult with Dr. Rind. He explained to me that my body was purposely making RT3 to protect itself because my adrenals were so challenged. I was already on Hydrocortisone (HC) so I didn't understand this as first.

            As my adrneals began to heal through the regimen Dr. Rind put me on, I initally began to tolerate 15 mg of Armour per month. He refused to put me on T3 only and to continue to raise up my HC begause he said it would burn out the rest of what little my adrenals had. Eventually I began to be able to raise the dosage a little at a time. If I tried to raise it any higher, I would get the precise symptoms you describe - raciness and then crashing. All of this began in January of htis year.

            6 months later, my adrenals have now healed to the degree that my HC dosage has been reduced from 20 mg to 10 mg and I am feeling really great on only 60 mg of Armour. really really great. I also have hashi's like you do.

            I used to think, as you do, that I also had a very revved up metabolism since I would always be so racy and revved up even before this probem began - but it wasn't that - it was lack of cortisol from adrenals that have been challenged too long from lifestyle, mercury poisoning, improper and very challenging chelation methods, and long-undiagosed hypothyroidism. Now that my adrenals are stronger and I'm not continuing to buredne them through caffeine and lifetsyle, I am experiencing a stength and peace to my body that is incredible.

            fyi, for my adrenals, Rind had me eat 2 tblsp of organic butter per day, salt (I put 1 tsp in water morning and night and also liberally salted my food), high ViItamin C, good quality B Complex, and an adrenal glandular. I discovered from another doctor that I was also zinc deficient so upped my zinc from 30 to 50 mg. Rind also had me take 2 tblsp of hydrolized collagen in water that I was to drink throughout that day.

            One drawback from Rind's protocol is that the daily mult vitamin that he put me on (that I purchased from him) has ALA in it. After discovering this site, I immediately stopped taking it. I have told him about the ALA and the problems it caused me (leading me to discover this site). I hope he reformulates his multivitamin.


            . --- In frequent-dose-chelation@yahoogroups.com, "jersey2cats" <dsstreak@...> wrote:
            >
            > --- In frequent-dose-chelation@yahoogroups.com, "andrewhallcutler" <AndyCutler@> wrote:
            >
            > > Have you tried T3/T4 preparations, or only the T4 ones like synthroid and levoxyl?
            >
            > I have tried combinations of almost everything. I was on Naturthroid with some T4 for a very long time. I have autoimmune thyroid. My antibodies are down now either because of chelation or possibly a gluten free diet. I now know I also have a reverse T3 issue. However, Cytomel makes me racy then crash. I have a very high metabolism so I think I use and clear it too quickly. I'm thinking of trying timed release. I did not know about the GFR related to hypo; the high creatnine would only be caused by kidney problems though right?
            >
          • ejojunk
            There is a very good Yahoo group that is dedicated to Reverse T3 issues, if you re interested. They ve been of great help to me in understanding what I need
            Message 5 of 23 , Aug 1, 2009
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              There is a very good Yahoo group that is dedicated to Reverse T3 issues, if you're interested. They've been of great help to me in understanding what I need to do to get my body to tolerate the T3 only thyroid meds. I also had problems starting T3 only, but learned how to make the switch over to it and also how important it is to support your adrenals while doing it. The other big reason people have issues with T3 only is low ferritin (storage iron).

              The group link is: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

              Ericka

              --- In frequent-dose-chelation@yahoogroups.com, "jersey2cats" <dsstreak@...> wrote:
              >
              > --- In frequent-dose-chelation@yahoogroups.com, "andrewhallcutler" <AndyCutler@> wrote:
              >
              > > Have you tried T3/T4 preparations, or only the T4 ones like synthroid and levoxyl?
              >
              > I have tried combinations of almost everything. I was on Naturthroid with some T4 for a very long time. I have autoimmune thyroid. My antibodies are down now either because of chelation or possibly a gluten free diet. I now know I also have a reverse T3 issue. However, Cytomel makes me racy then crash. I have a very high metabolism so I think I use and clear it too quickly. I'm thinking of trying timed release. I did not know about the GFR related to hypo; the high creatnine would only be caused by kidney problems though right?
              >
              >
              > > > > <a href="http://www.noamalgam.com/index.html">Amalgam Illness: Diagnosis and Treatment</a >
              > > > >
              > > > > <a href="http://www.noamalgam.com/hairtestbook.html">Hair Test Interpretation: Finding Hidden Toxicities</a >
              > > > >
              > > > > <a href="http://www.noamalgam.com/nourishinghope.html">Nourishing Hope for Autism: Nutrition Intervention for Healing Our Children</a >
              > > > >
              > > > > <a href="http://www.noamalgam.com/biologicaltreatments.html">Biological Treatments for Autism and PDD</a >
              > > > >
              > > >
              > >
              >
            • petshopgirl6
              ... Hi Sally, Thanks for that post. Both you and Ericka (ejojunk) write great, detailed posts about the thyroid (and adrenals) - very informative to me. I
              Message 6 of 23 , Aug 2, 2009
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                --- In frequent-dose-chelation@yahoogroups.com, "sallyflowers888" <sallyflowers888@...> wrote:
                >
                > 6 months later, my adrenals have now healed to the degree that my HC dosage has been reduced from 20 mg to 10 mg and I am feeling really great on only 60 mg of Armour. really really great. I also have hashi's like you do.
                >
                Hi Sally,

                Thanks for that post. Both you and Ericka (ejojunk) write great, detailed posts about the thyroid (and adrenals) - very informative to me. I don't have particular issues with my thyroid (as far as I know), but it's probably not optimal... so at some point, I'll probably look into things like Armour, etc. Also, interesting to see how the adrenals play into all that (I have issues with the adrenals).

                You said that your adrenals are now more healed 6 months later... can I ask what sort of regimen you did during that time to get them there? (I know you mentioned some things already in your post)

                >> fyi, for my adrenals, Rind had me eat 2 tblsp of organic butter per day, salt (I put 1 tsp in water morning and night and also liberally salted my food), high ViItamin C, good quality B Complex, and an adrenal glandular. I discovered from another doctor that I was also zinc deficient so upped my zinc from 30 to 50 mg. Rind also had me take 2 tblsp of hydrolized collagen in water that I was to drink throughout that day.
                >
                How does organic butter help the adrenals? Also, did you eat this raw (off the spoon), or cooked with it?

                What dose of Vit. C did you take daily? Which adrenal glandular, and dosage?

                How does the hydrolized collagen help the adrenals?

                Glad to hear you're feeling better.

                Thanks,

                Suzanne
              • jersey2cats
                ... Thank-you for your reply. I do have adrenal problems as suggested by my salvia cortisol level being low at all times of the day. I have had this problem
                Message 7 of 23 , Aug 2, 2009
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                  --- In frequent-dose-chelation@yahoogroups.com, "sallyflowers888" <sallyflowers888@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > It sounds strongly to me that you have severe adrenal problems causing you not to be able to tolerate T3 as well as creating the
                  > RT-3 problem.


                  Thank-you for your reply. I do have adrenal problems as suggested by my salvia cortisol level being low at all times of the day. I have had this problem for awhile. I was on hydrocortisone myself two years ago unfortunately during the pregnancy with my daughter. I hated being on it, it was difficult to control the dosing and everytime I took some I always got racy heart, anxious/OCD behaviors (which signal adrenal to me) later in the day causing me to want to take more hydrocortisone. I know they say that this just means you need more but I would wake up during the night wanting to stress dose. It never made me feel any better and actually made me feel worse. I eventually weaned myself off at the very end of my pregnancy with a stress dose during labor. I have since tried Isocort and get the same nasty reactions. I don't ever want to go on it again. I am taking Wilson's adrenal rebuilder which does seem to offer some support but I think my adrenals are still struggling especially with the stress of chelation. I feel like the only way to heal them though is to continue to chelate. I feel great when I'm chelating but I am concerned that I am still hypo (TSH was 4.5 recently) and worried now about the possible kidney problems. I don't want to damage my kidneys by continuing to chelate. I know that I can tolerate Naturthroid (hypoallergenic form of Armour) if I work up in small doses. Maybe this is the better way than T3. Who knows? This is all so frustrating and complicated. Diane
                • sallyflowers888
                  What I wrote below was the primary part of the regimen. Doing it faithfully, every day. Your adrenals need cholesterol, salt and Vitamin C to function
                  Message 8 of 23 , Aug 2, 2009
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                    What I wrote below was the primary part of the regimen. Doing it faithfully, every day.

                    Your adrenals need cholesterol, salt and Vitamin C to function (according to Dr Rind) - hence the organic butter. Organic is recommended because animals store their toxins in their fat - so if you can afford organic meats and butter, so much the better. If you have the money, weston price's X factor gold butter oil is what Dr Rind recommends even more. That, in combination with cod liver oil, is something that really helps people improve quickly (according to Rind). I alternated between the butter and the butter oil every day or every few days since the butter oil was so pricey.

                    The primary supplements that Andy recommends were also what I had already been taking. Vit A is very impt for adrenals (25,ooo iu) VIt D (5ooo iu) etc. My Vitamin C intake varied. I did it to bowel tolerance. Was constipated back then so took high doses of C and magnesium glycinate. Like around 6,000 mg Vit C. (500 mg spread throughout the day) I am now down to 2000 mg of Vit C because am no longer constipated. Apparently because my thyroid is now getting the thryoid hormones it needs.

                    I was also estrogen dominant because the adrenals rob the hormones of progesterone when they get under stress. So was put on progesterone for that. Also took a GABA/L-theanine creme to help calm my body and deal with the raciness. (Am no longer taking that)

                    The purpose for the hydrolized collagen is because it's a complete source of amino acids that helps support the adrenals (If I recall correctly body doesn't digest protein well when adrenals are stressed - my recollection on that point is a little faint).

                    5 mg DHEA - DHEA is a basic adrenal hormone that the adrenals convert in to other hormones.

                    DIgestive enzymes that containe Betaine Hydrochloric acid. Poor adrenal function is often associated with poor digestion and low gastric acidity.

                    The adrenal glandular I took was Dr Wilson's Adrenal Rebuilder Formula - which is what Dr Rind suggested and sells. I started off taking 1/2 pill with meals for a week. Then 1 pill then 1.5 and then 2 per meal, taking a week each time. Rind said that is one of the most impt supplements to rebuild the adrenals. You need to go slow in adding things so that the adrenals dont' get shocked by getting too many things at once. Start slow and be gentle is what the adrenals need. Wilsons formula has adrenal cortex in it. I'm no longet taking it - am taking a differnet formula by Atrium that has just adrenal glandular without the cortex - only 2 per day. The reaosn for the change is I have continued to see my homeoopathist throughout this and she uses the electral derma screening machine. Within the last month wilson's formula no longer tested positive for me so I switched.

                    Zinc - 30 to 50 mg. I started with 30, needed to go to 50 mg. Am now not taking any zinc. (I'm also taking a break from chelating right now - all of these supplements will probably change once I start chelating again).

                    If you intake any kind of caffeine - stop. I stopped drinking coffee decades ago because my body stopped being able to handle the caffeine, but didn't realize I was still drinking it in the form of yerba mate tea. Caffeine is like placing an electric cattle prod to the adrenals and is really bad for adrenals that are weak and struggling to heal.

                    Lay down frequently throughout the day - 4 to 6 times a day or more if necessary. It helps to get the blood circulating to the brain without having to do more work. Breathe deeply and let everything go.
                    I was having to lie down every hour back in January. I work a full time job and would close my office door and just lie down on the floor. Now that I'm feeling much better, I forget to do that. And when I start feeling my body start getting agitated and not working properly, I force myself to stop and lie down to relax. Which leads me to the next impt topic ....

                    Change the habits that got you here in the first place. Your adrenals will not heal if you don't. As I got better, I watched myself wanting to pick right back up where i left off - over committing, taking on other people's stress and problems, not following a careful regimen of eating throughout the day, supplements, rest, stressing out about whether the house was clean if people were coming over, etc. Last year when I crashed so badly and had to get on the HC, it was mandatory for me to withdraw from the few things I was doing in addition to work. I had to draw very firm boundaries around myself and give myself critical care - me, myself, and I - no one else. I need to keep putting myself as number 1 on the list 24 hours a day. I also just don't let myself get whacked out about things now. Am grateful for as low as I went in the adrenal exhausition - I have re-engineered myself as a result and am leading a much more stress-free life (inside and out)

                    Hope this helps.

                    --- In frequent-dose-chelation@yahoogroups.com, "petshopgirl6" <petshopgirl6@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > --- In frequent-dose-chelation@yahoogroups.com, "sallyflowers888" <sallyflowers888@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > 6 months later, my adrenals have now healed to the degree that my HC dosage has been reduced from 20 mg to 10 mg and I am feeling really great on only 60 mg of Armour. really really great. I also have hashi's like you do.
                    > >
                    > Hi Sally,
                    >
                    > Thanks for that post. Both you and Ericka (ejojunk) write great, detailed posts about the thyroid (and adrenals) - very informative to me. I don't have particular issues with my thyroid (as far as I know), but it's probably not optimal... so at some point, I'll probably look into things like Armour, etc. Also, interesting to see how the adrenals play into all that (I have issues with the adrenals).
                    >
                    > You said that your adrenals are now more healed 6 months later... can I ask what sort of regimen you did during that time to get them there? (I know you mentioned some things already in your post)
                    >
                    > >> fyi, for my adrenals, Rind had me eat 2 tblsp of organic butter per day, salt (I put 1 tsp in water morning and night and also liberally salted my food), high ViItamin C, good quality B Complex, and an adrenal glandular. I discovered from another doctor that I was also zinc deficient so upped my zinc from 30 to 50 mg. Rind also had me take 2 tblsp of hydrolized collagen in water that I was to drink throughout that day.
                    > >
                    > How does organic butter help the adrenals? Also, did you eat this raw (off the spoon), or cooked with it?
                    >
                    > What dose of Vit. C did you take daily? Which adrenal glandular, and dosage?
                    >
                    > How does the hydrolized collagen help the adrenals?
                    >
                    > Glad to hear you're feeling better.
                    >
                    > Thanks,
                    >
                    > Suzanne
                    >
                  • sallyflowers888
                    Please consider the message I just posted in response to someone else s questions about what you can be doing to heal your adrenals without using HC. Dr. Rind
                    Message 9 of 23 , Aug 2, 2009
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                      Please consider the message I just posted in response to someone else's questions about what you can be doing to heal your adrenals without using HC. Dr. Rind told me that the number one thing he sees as helping to heal the adrenals is Dr Wilson's Adrenal Rebuilder. You can find it on the net or order it from Dove Products (202) 237 - 7000.

                      Start off at 1/2 tab with each meal for a week, then go to 1 for a week, then to 1.5 each meal for a week, then 2 each meal and continue with that amount. The rest of what I wrote in the other post is impt too - zinc, butter, salt, vit c, lying down, rest, etc.


                      'post I --- In frequent-dose-chelation@yahoogroups.com, "jersey2cats" <dsstreak@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > --- In frequent-dose-chelation@yahoogroups.com, "sallyflowers888" <sallyflowers888@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > It sounds strongly to me that you have severe adrenal problems causing you not to be able to tolerate T3 as well as creating the
                      > > RT-3 problem.
                      >
                      >
                      > Thank-you for your reply. I do have adrenal problems as suggested by my salvia cortisol level being low at all times of the day. I have had this problem for awhile. I was on hydrocortisone myself two years ago unfortunately during the pregnancy with my daughter. I hated being on it, it was difficult to control the dosing and everytime I took some I always got racy heart, anxious/OCD behaviors (which signal adrenal to me) later in the day causing me to want to take more hydrocortisone. I know they say that this just means you need more but I would wake up during the night wanting to stress dose. It never made me feel any better and actually made me feel worse. I eventually weaned myself off at the very end of my pregnancy with a stress dose during labor. I have since tried Isocort and get the same nasty reactions. I don't ever want to go on it again. I am taking Wilson's adrenal rebuilder which does seem to offer some support but I think my adrenals are still struggling especially with the stress of chelation. I feel like the only way to heal them though is to continue to chelate. I feel great when I'm chelating but I am concerned that I am still hypo (TSH was 4.5 recently) and worried now about the possible kidney problems. I don't want to damage my kidneys by continuing to chelate. I know that I can tolerate Naturthroid (hypoallergenic form of Armour) if I work up in small doses. Maybe this is the better way than T3. Who knows? This is all so frustrating and complicated. Diane
                      >
                    • sallyflowers888
                      Just remembered one other impt point, the adrenals need you to eat throughout the day. Don t skip meals. - Most of us are hypoglycemic so that s usually not
                      Message 10 of 23 , Aug 2, 2009
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                        Just remembered one other impt point, the adrenals need you to eat throughout the day. Don't skip meals. - Most of us are hypoglycemic so that's usually not an issue, but when we get under stress and busy, it sometimes happens.




                        --- In frequent-dose-chelation@yahoogroups.com, "petshopgirl6" <petshopgirl6@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > --- In frequent-dose-chelation@yahoogroups.com, "sallyflowers888" <sallyflowers888@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > 6 months later, my adrenals have now healed to the degree that my HC dosage has been reduced from 20 mg to 10 mg and I am feeling really great on only 60 mg of Armour. really really great. I also have hashi's like you do.
                        > >
                        > Hi Sally,
                        >
                        > Thanks for that post. Both you and Ericka (ejojunk) write great, detailed posts about the thyroid (and adrenals) - very informative to me. I don't have particular issues with my thyroid (as far as I know), but it's probably not optimal... so at some point, I'll probably look into things like Armour, etc. Also, interesting to see how the adrenals play into all that (I have issues with the adrenals).
                        >
                        > You said that your adrenals are now more healed 6 months later... can I ask what sort of regimen you did during that time to get them there? (I know you mentioned some things already in your post)
                        >
                        >
                      • sallyflowers888
                        Suzanne - I neglected to answer your question. Just eat the butter however you wish - melt on veggies, toast, raw. I did all of the above. If in a hurry in
                        Message 11 of 23 , Aug 2, 2009
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                          Suzanne - I neglected to answer your question. Just eat the butter however you wish - melt on veggies, toast, raw. I did all of the above. If in a hurry in the morning, would sometimes eat a dollop of butter of the stick if didn't have time or didn't want to make toast.
                          I tied to have some at least twice or three times per day, although
                          sometimes would have it all in one meal.


                          --- In frequent-dose-chelation@yahoogroups.com, "petshopgirl6" <petshopgirl6@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > How does organic butter help the adrenals? Also, did you eat this raw (off the spoon), or cooked with it?
                          >
                        • ejojunk
                          Diane, you do know that Naturethroid also contains T3, right? And if you have adrenal problems, you can also have trouble tolerating this once you get up to a
                          Message 12 of 23 , Aug 2, 2009
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                            Diane, you do know that Naturethroid also contains T3, right? And if you have adrenal problems, you can also have trouble tolerating this once you get up to a higher level. Plus, if you already have high RT3 levels, the T4 that is in it will almost certainly convert straight to RT3 instead of FT3 and feed your RT3 problems.

                            Have you had ferritin tested? Low levels will give you problems with tolerating any kind of T3, including the T3 in Armour or Naturethroid. Low ferritin and low cortisol/adrenal function are the main reasons why people don't tolerate T3.

                            I, too, had issues when first starting HC. It made me more tired at first, since my body was used to running on adrenaline and once I started HC, my body no longer needed to produce adrenaline and it had to adjust to running on cortisol instead. HC can be a little tricky to tweak at first, but once you figure it out, it should get much easier. Not that I'm trying to push HC on you, just letting you know that your experience is very common.

                            Ericka

                            --- In frequent-dose-chelation@yahoogroups.com, "jersey2cats" <dsstreak@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > --- In frequent-dose-chelation@yahoogroups.com, "sallyflowers888" <sallyflowers888@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > It sounds strongly to me that you have severe adrenal problems causing you not to be able to tolerate T3 as well as creating the
                            > > RT-3 problem.
                            >
                            >
                            > Thank-you for your reply. I do have adrenal problems as suggested by my salvia cortisol level being low at all times of the day. I have had this problem for awhile. I was on hydrocortisone myself two years ago unfortunately during the pregnancy with my daughter. I hated being on it, it was difficult to control the dosing and everytime I took some I always got racy heart, anxious/OCD behaviors (which signal adrenal to me) later in the day causing me to want to take more hydrocortisone. I know they say that this just means you need more but I would wake up during the night wanting to stress dose. It never made me feel any better and actually made me feel worse. I eventually weaned myself off at the very end of my pregnancy with a stress dose during labor. I have since tried Isocort and get the same nasty reactions. I don't ever want to go on it again. I am taking Wilson's adrenal rebuilder which does seem to offer some support but I think my adrenals are still struggling especially with the stress of chelation. I feel like the only way to heal them though is to continue to chelate. I feel great when I'm chelating but I am concerned that I am still hypo (TSH was 4.5 recently) and worried now about the possible kidney problems. I don't want to damage my kidneys by continuing to chelate. I know that I can tolerate Naturthroid (hypoallergenic form of Armour) if I work up in small doses. Maybe this is the better way than T3. Who knows? This is all so frustrating and complicated. Diane
                            >
                          • sallyflowers888
                            Sometimes when people have difficulty with HC, they take a Betaine HCL with it and it helps a lot.
                            Message 13 of 23 , Aug 3, 2009
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                              Sometimes when people have difficulty with HC, they take a Betaine HCL with it and it helps a lot.


                              --- In frequent-dose-chelation@yahoogroups.com, "ejojunk" <ejojunk@...> wrote:

                              > I, too, had issues when first starting HC. It made me more tired at first, since my body was used to running on adrenaline and once I started HC, my body no longer needed to produce adrenaline and it had to adjust to running on cortisol instead. HC can be a little tricky to tweak at first, but once you figure it out, it should get much easier. Not that I'm trying to push HC on you, just letting you know that your experience is very common.
                              >
                              > --- In frequent-dose-chelation@yahoogroups.com, "jersey2cats" <dsstreak@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Thank-you for your reply. I do have adrenal problems as suggested by my salvia cortisol level being low at all times of the day. I have had this problem for awhile. I was on hydrocortisone myself two years ago unfortunately during the pregnancy with my daughter. I hated being on it, it was difficult to control the dosing and everytime I took some I always got racy heart, anxious/OCD behaviors (which signal adrenal to me) later in the day causing me to want to take more hydrocortisone. I know they say that this just means you need more but I would wake up during the night wanting to stress dose. It never made me feel any better and actually made me feel worse. I eventually weaned myself off at the very end of my pregnancy with a stress dose during labor. I have since tried Isocort and get the same nasty reactions. I don't ever want to go on it again. I am taking Wilson's adrenal rebuilder which does seem to offer some support but I think my adrenals are still struggling especially with the stress of chelation. I feel like the only way to heal them though is to continue to chelate. I feel great when I'm chelating but I am concerned that I am still hypo (TSH was 4.5 recently) and worried now about the possible kidney problems. I don't want to damage my kidneys by continuing to chelate. I know that I can tolerate Naturthroid (hypoallergenic form of Armour) if I work up in small doses. Maybe this is the better way than T3. Who knows? This is all so frustrating and complicated. Diane
                              > >
                              >
                            • petshopgirl6
                              ... Hi Sally, Thanks for the info. I got some new ideas from what you wrote - organic butter and hydrolized collagen. I ll probably be adding these to my
                              Message 14 of 23 , Aug 3, 2009
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                                --- In frequent-dose-chelation@yahoogroups.com, "sallyflowers888" <sallyflowers888@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Your adrenals need cholesterol, salt and Vitamin C to function (according to Dr Rind) - hence the organic butter.

                                Hi Sally,

                                Thanks for the info. I got some new ideas from what you wrote - organic butter and hydrolized collagen. I'll probably be adding these to my adrenal regimen, esp. the butter. It makes sense that the adrenals need cholesterol, since that's what all the hormones are made out of. And my cholesterol has always been low in all the blood tests I've done in the past few years (150's range). This had always concerned me, but I had forgotten about it for a while.

                                One question - did you have any concerns about taking in all this saturated fat on a daily basis? It's good that it can raise cholesterol levels, but do you know if it can also adversely affect the other lipids, like LDL and triglycerides?

                                I realize that part of why I'm asking is probably from brainwashing from the mainstream nutritional sources that say saturated fat is the enemy and is the main cause of heart disease and atheroslerosis, etc... but after reading Sally Fallon's excellent diet/nutrition book, "Nourishing Traditions" (and a few other sources), I pretty much believe what she says... that saturated fat is very much needed in our diets, and is NOT the cause of heart disease, etc (that distinction would go to vegetable oils, hydrogenated fats, refined food products, etc)

                                > If you have the money, weston price's X factor gold butter oil is what Dr Rind recommends even more.

                                Where do you get this butter oil? And is the daily dosage the same as the organic butter - take either one, 2 tablespoons a day?

                                Do you cook with this, or just drink it straight?

                                > That, in combination with cod liver oil, is something that really helps people improve quickly (according to Rind).

                                How much cod liver oil does he recommend? Any particular brand?

                                I know some people here use it, but I guess I've always been a little wary of trying it b/c it comes from fish... and I avoid fish in general b/c of the mercury issue. Now I have to figure out if cod is a "high-risk" fish or one of the safer ones. Have any idea?

                                > I was also estrogen dominant because the adrenals rob the hormones of progesterone when they get under stress. So was put on progesterone for that.

                                Since amalgam removal last summer, my periods had gotten wonky for the first time (esp. in terms of timing) - I think due to accumulated adrenal stress. It continued on this way until just recently... the last period I had was pretty much right on time, and lasted a good 5 days. So I'm hoping that's now restabilizing. Been on progesterone cream for the past few months, and probably that helped. I now think that last year's adrenal stress depleted me of progesterone, which then made me estrogen dominant (at least for a while)... also b/c my periods often came too early, and lasted longer than usual too... that would seem to indicate an excess of estrogen?

                                I'm hoping that by continuing the progesterone cream for a while, the periods will restabilize soon, and then I hope to wean off the cream (or at least use a minimal dosage).

                                > Also took a GABA/L-theanine creme to help calm my body and deal with the raciness. (Am no longer taking that)

                                I didn't realize they made a cream that contains GABA and L-theanine. Was wondering - what's the benefit of taking these amino acids in cream form rather than the usual oral supps?

                                > The purpose for the hydrolized collagen is because it's a complete source of amino acids that helps support the adrenals (If I recall correctly body doesn't digest protein well when adrenals are stressed - my recollection on that point is a little faint).

                                Where do you get the hydrolized collagen? How much do you take daily?

                                > The adrenal glandular I took was Dr Wilson's Adrenal Rebuilder Formula - which is what Dr Rind suggested and sells. I started off taking 1/2 pill with meals for a week. Then 1 pill then 1.5 and then 2 per meal, taking a week each time.

                                So was the max dosage of Adrenal Rebuilder you were on 6 a day?

                                > Caffeine is like placing an electric cattle prod to the adrenals and is really bad for adrenals that are weak and struggling to heal.

                                I haven't had caffeine in years, and even back then was never a regular caffeine person. But I like the analogy you used - it's spot-on.

                                > Am grateful for as low as I went in the adrenal exhausition - I have re-engineered myself as a result and am leading a much more stress-free life (inside and out)

                                Thanks for writing that. I feel the exact same way - I went very low myself, but am now in the process of rebuilding and re-engineering myself as a result. I hope that eventually I will be even BETTER than I previously was... back then, even though I wasn't as ill, I was doing a lot of wrong things (wrong diet, wrong lifestyle, etc). Now, I have the knowledge, the wherewithal, and the CONVICTION to do all the RIGHT things... for the present and future health of my adrenals and my entire body.

                                Sometimes it takes dire straits - even a crisis of sorts - to initiate that sort of process.

                                Thanks again for the info,

                                Suzanne
                              • sallyflowers888
                                Dr. Rind appears to share the same view you mention as Sally Fallon below. He told me to eat as much butter as I wanted unless gaining weight was a concern
                                Message 15 of 23 , Aug 3, 2009
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                                  Dr. Rind appears to share the same view you mention as Sally Fallon below. He told me to eat as much butter as I wanted unless gaining weight was a concern for me and that we need good saturated fats to stay healthy. I did just that - actually ate a whole lot more butter than the 2 tblsp he recommended. My cholesterol (both good and bad) increased. The "bad" cholesterol went right to the limit. I don't have heart disease in my family and my body actually craved the butter once I started eating it so I didn't have any concern. I've now decreased it to just 2 tblsp per day and cholesterol levels are fine.

                                  Google "Weston Price's X Factor Gold butter oil" and you will see where to buy it. I initally did 2 tblsp per day and now I do about a teaspoon every other day and make up the difference with regular butter. Dr Rind said to use it just like regular butter - melt it on vegetables, cook with it etc. I didn't cook with it - to the degree there are enzymes in there I didn't want to kill them. It comes in a bottle that you refrigerate after opening and then it hardens just like regular butter.

                                  I took 1 tsp of cod liver oil in the morning with my butter oil. The brand Dr Rind recommended and that I buy is Green Pastures Blue Ice Pure Cod Liver Oil. It is "guaranteed heavy metal and solvent free" and is "pharmaceutically pure" You can find it over the net - shop for the best price or else call Dr Rind's Dove Products (which is where I continue to find the best price) (202) 237 - 7000

                                  I also buy Rid-Cal hydrolized collagen from Dove Products. When I have run out, I've occasionally purchased one from Twin Labs at my health food store (but it has other additives I choose not to take)
                                  The directions on the Rid-Cal bottle say to drink it on an empty stomach at night just before bedtime, but Dr Rind said to ignore that and drink it anytime.

                                  Rind is a fan of the GABA/theanine creme - forget why. I think it's made by Xymogen. He also uses their DHEA and Progest cremes. For people who have sensitive bowel or who need to increase dose very slowly because they're very deficient in DHEA and therefore can only tolerate very tiny incremental increases every few days or weeks, he recommends the DHEA creme.

                                  Yes, maximum dose of Adrenal Rebulder was 6 per day.
                                  Sally Flowers.


                                  Y ou r.over the net to ut not over has a diff--- In frequent-dose-chelation@yahoogroups.com, "petshopgirl6" <petshopgirl6@...> wrote:

                                  > Thanks for the info. I got some new ideas from what you wrote - organic butter and hydrolized collagen.

                                  > One question - did you have any concerns about taking in all this saturated fat on a daily basis? It's good that it can raise cholesterol levels, but do you know if it can also adversely affect the other lipids, like LDL and triglycerides?

                                  > I realize that part of why I'm asking is probably from brainwashing from the mainstream nutritional sources that say saturated fat is the enemy and is the main cause of heart disease and atheroslerosis, etc... but after reading Sally Fallon's excellent diet/nutrition book, "Nourishing Traditions" (and a few other sources), I pretty much believe what she says... that saturated fat is very much needed in our diets, and is NOT the cause of heart disease, etc (that distinction would go to vegetable oils, hydrogenated fats, refined food products, etc)
                                  >
                                  > > If you have the money, weston price's X factor gold butter oil is what Dr Rind recommends even more.
                                  >
                                  > Where do you get this butter oil? And is the daily dosage the same as the organic butter - take either one, 2 tablespoons a day?
                                  >
                                  > Do you cook with this, or just drink it straight?
                                  >
                                  > > That, in combination with cod liver oil, is something that really helps people improve quickly (according to Rind).
                                  >
                                  > How much cod liver oil does he recommend? Any particular brand?
                                  >
                                  > I know some people here use it, but I guess I've always been a little wary of trying it b/c it comes from fish... and I avoid fish in general b/c of the mercury issue. Now I have to figure out if cod is a "high-risk" fish or one of the safer ones. Have any idea?
                                  >
                                  >> I'm hoping that by continuing the progesterone cream for a while, the periods will restabilize soon, and then I hope to wean off the cream (or at least use a minimal dosage).
                                  >
                                  > > Also took a GABA/L-theanine creme to help calm my body and deal with the raciness. (Am no longer taking that)
                                  >
                                  > I didn't realize they made a cream that contains GABA and L-theanine. Was wondering - what's the benefit of taking these amino acids in cream form rather than the usual oral supps?
                                  >
                                  > > The purpose for the hydrolized collagen is because it's a complete source of amino acids that helps support the adrenals (If I recall correctly body doesn't digest protein well when adrenals are stressed - my recollection on that point is a little faint).
                                  >
                                  > Where do you get the hydrolized collagen? How much do you take daily?
                                  >
                                  > > The adrenal glandular I took was Dr Wilson's Adrenal Rebuilder Formula - which is what Dr Rind suggested and sells. I started off taking 1/2 pill with meals for a week. Then 1 pill then 1.5 and then 2 per meal, taking a week each time.
                                  >
                                  > So was the max dosage of Adrenal Rebuilder you were on 6 a day?
                                  >
                                  >
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