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RE: [FSP] Web page keyword help

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  • Mike Lorrey
    [MODERATOR NOTE: Let s take this down a notch. Everyone has the best interests of the FSP at heart, right? Thanks. And this discussion has been *very*
    Message 1 of 10 , Mar 31, 2003
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      [MODERATOR NOTE: Let's take this down a notch. Everyone has the best interests of the FSP at heart, right? Thanks.

      And this discussion has been *very* useful.]

      Doing it right does not feed false information, and I resent you making
      such an allusion of my recommendations.

      The 'false information ban' rule applies only to doing things like
      having meta information or food script data which presents a page which
      in entirely different than actual content. For example, if I represent
      a page to the index spiders as a Britney Spears fan site, and instead
      the real site is full of celebrity pornography, this would be
      considered false information.

      Food scripts can be used correctly simply to remove extraneous data
      from your real page so that only the real content remains. No graphics,
      no layout markup, no valueless words. This method is simply a means of
      score optimization, not score fraud.

      --- RavenBlack <raven@...> wrote:
      > Some search engines, including Google, will ban you from
      > their indexes entirely if you are spotted feeding what is
      > essentially false information to their spiders.
      >
      > >I recommend what is generally called a 'food
      > >script', which is the real index.cgi of the site. This script
      > examines
      > >what is requesting the page, whether it is some browsing individual
      > or
      > >whether it is an indexing spider. If it is a browsing individual,
      > they
      > >get the official public page.
      > >If it is a search engine indexing spider, the spider gets 'fed' a
      > page
      > >which is optimized for indexing. This is a page in which all
      > extraneous
      > >words are removed from, like 'the', 'and' etc which are not part of
      > >phrases that searchers might use in using a search engine. It also
      > >lacks graphical, structural, and layout information. One thing that
      > >search engines do is word and phrase counts when scoring web pages.
      > >This helps determine how high on the results list your website
      > appears.
      > >If 8% of the phrases and words in a page are equal to or similar to
      > >those being searched for, this page will rank higher than one that
      > has
      > >only 2% and lower than a page that has 10%.
      >
      >
      >
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      =====
      Mike Lorrey
      "Live Free or Die, Death is not the Worst of Evils."
      - Gen. John Stark
      "Pacifists are Objectively Pro-Fascist." - George Orwell
      "Treason doth never Prosper. What is the Reason?
      For if it Prosper, none Dare call it Treason..." - Ovid

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    • Thomas Sewell
      I haven t wanted to jump in because I m proud of my lurking status.... but the recent search discussion has become too much for me. :) Serving different
      Message 2 of 10 , Apr 1, 2003
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        I haven't wanted to jump in because I'm proud of my lurking status.... but the recent search discussion has become too much for me. :)

        Serving different content to a search engine then you serve to "regular" users _may_ be caught and punished by sites like Google. The penalty is of course, NO traffic from them, probably forever. The risk just doesn't match the reward, even if it's borderline not abuse. Normally for sites that are successful at it, any such shenanigans will be noticed quickly by a keyword competitor and reported as abuse.

        Before trying what's been recommended below, I would suggest a direct email to the major search engines asking them specifically if they would consider it abuse.

        A more effective spend of your time is to develop good content and make sure the page is created in such a way that the content is accessible to search engine spiders.

        In any case, this list probably isn't the best for an extended discussion of search engine optimization. There is, however, a list that is specifically for that called I-search. It has many of the top professional SEOs as well as representatives of most of the major search engines on it. You can view an archive of posts on THAT list (which will cover any topic we could possibly discuss here in greater depth) at http://list.adventive.com/archives/i-search.html.

        Thomas Sewell
        Republican Liberty Caucus
        http://www.rlc.org

        In Reply to:

        Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 17:41:36 -0800 (PST)
        From: Mike Lorrey <mlorrey@...>
        Subject: RE: Web page keyword help

        [MODERATOR NOTE: Let's take this down a notch. Everyone has the best interests of the FSP at heart, right? Thanks.

        And this discussion has been *very* useful.]

        Doing it right does not feed false information, and I resent you making
        such an allusion of my recommendations.

        The 'false information ban' rule applies only to doing things like
        having meta information or food script data which presents a page which
        in entirely different than actual content. For example, if I represent
        a page to the index spiders as a Britney Spears fan site, and instead
        the real site is full of celebrity pornography, this would be
        considered false information.

        Food scripts can be used correctly simply to remove extraneous data
        from your real page so that only the real content remains. No graphics,
        no layout markup, no valueless words. This method is simply a means of
        score optimization, not score fraud.

        --- RavenBlack <raven@...> wrote:
        > Some search engines, including Google, will ban you from
        > their indexes entirely if you are spotted feeding what is
        > essentially false information to their spiders.
        >
        > >I recommend what is generally called a 'food
        > >script', which is the real index.cgi of the site. This script
        > examines
        > >what is requesting the page, whether it is some browsing individual
        > or
        > >whether it is an indexing spider. If it is a browsing individual,
        > they
        > >get the official public page.
        > >If it is a search engine indexing spider, the spider gets 'fed' a
        > page
        > >which is optimized for indexing. This is a page in which all
        > extraneous
        > >words are removed from, like 'the', 'and' etc which are not part of
        > >phrases that searchers might use in using a search engine. It also
        > >lacks graphical, structural, and layout information. One thing that
        > >search engines do is word and phrase counts when scoring web pages.
        > >This helps determine how high on the results list your website
        > appears.
        > >If 8% of the phrases and words in a page are equal to or similar to
        > >those being searched for, this page will rank higher than one that
        > has
        > >only 2% and lower than a page that has 10%.
      • Kelly Setzer
        ... Resentment or not, I hope that everyone involved maintains a very level, extremely thoughtful outlook. Search engines are tricky business, and the
        Message 3 of 10 , Apr 1, 2003
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          On Mon, Mar 31, 2003 at 05:41:36PM -0800, Mike Lorrey wrote:
          > [MODERATOR NOTE: Let's take this down a notch. Everyone has the best interests of the FSP at heart, right? Thanks.
          >
          > And this discussion has been *very* useful.]
          >
          > Doing it right does not feed false information, and I resent you making
          > such an allusion of my recommendations.
          >
          > The 'false information ban' rule applies only to doing things like
          > having meta information or food script data which presents a page which

          Resentment or not, I hope that everyone involved maintains a very level,
          extremely thoughtful outlook. Search engines are tricky business, and
          the knowledge involved in optimizing placement is hard to come by.

          At the same time, the FSP is not exactly mainstream. The fact that it
          is a political organization and that our views may not be in lock-step
          with the establishment suggests that we should be very careful about
          how we publicize ourselves, lest we risk bad press or outright blackout.

          Kelly
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