Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [FSP] RE: marginalized for not being US voters

Expand Messages
  • Mike Lorrey
    ... the world. Perpetual Travelers have opted out of the system and thus are not able to influence it by their votes. While such individuals are welcome, they
    Message 1 of 7 , Mar 5, 2003
    • 0 Attachment
      --- Philip Boncer <elroyj@...> wrote:
      > Any and all potential participants will be very welcome, providing
      > only that they believe in the value of freedom.

      > > Chris wrote:
      > > One large group of libertarians that the FSP project seems to be
      > ignoring are the thousands of PTs that are currently spread all over
      the world.

      Perpetual Travelers have opted out of the system and thus are not able
      to influence it by their votes. While such individuals are welcome,
      they wouldn't count toward the 20k unless they decided to become
      residents of the Free State.

      "A man who says there is nothing worth dying for has nothing worth
      living for."

      While PTs are welcome, don't expect me to get all fired up excited
      unless they are going to actually take a stand.

      =====
      Mike Lorrey
      "Live Free or Die, Death is not the Worst of Evils."
      - Gen. John Stark
      "Pacifists are Objectively Pro-Fascist." - George Orwell
      "Treason doth never Prosper. What is the Reason?
      For if it Prosper, none Dare call it Treason..." - Ovid

      __________________________________________________
      Do you Yahoo!?
      Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
      http://taxes.yahoo.com/
    • Wen Shi Di
      ... That s not true. I have only opted out of paying taxes, submitting myself to out of date laws and being forced to depend on a system that destroys
      Message 2 of 7 , Mar 7, 2003
      • 0 Attachment
        At 09:16 PM 3/5/03 -0800, you wrote:
        >Perpetual Travelers have opted out of the system and thus are not able
        >to influence it by their votes. While such individuals are welcome,
        >they wouldn't count toward the 20k unless they decided to become
        >residents of the Free State.

        That's not true. I have only opted out of paying taxes, submitting myself
        to out of date laws and being forced to depend on a system that destroys
        everything but the very elite.
        I still exercise my right to vote, use my original passport when beneficial
        and write to my government representative when i fell it is necessary.

        >"A man who says there is nothing worth dying for has nothing worth
        >living for."
        Staying in these so called democracies as a working citizen is the modern
        equivalent of living death in many peoples opinions.

        >While PTs are welcome, don't expect me to get all fired up excited
        >unless they are going to actually take a stand.

        I am not really sure what you are referring to by making a stand.

        Some might say that the only real way to see the truth of how the system of
        economic government works is to get out of it, thereby gaining some real
        objectivity. There are many PTs out there living a truly libertarian
        lifestyle (and have been doing so for many years) who could be very useful
        sources of knowledge and experience in helping to set up the FSP. Many
        feel like exiles from an unjust system and have been looking for an
        opportunity like this for a long time so they can put down some roots and
        work together with other like minded free thinkers.

        I am surprised to learn that one's overall philosophy in life is far less
        important than ones nationality.
        Kinda defeats the object really.

        Chris



        >=====
        >Mike Lorrey
        >"Live Free or Die, Death is not the Worst of Evils."
        > - Gen. John Stark
        >"Pacifists are Objectively Pro-Fascist." - George Orwell
        >"Treason doth never Prosper. What is the Reason?
        >For if it Prosper, none Dare call it Treason..." - Ovid
        >
        >__________________________________________________
        >Do you Yahoo!?
        >Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
        ><http://taxes.yahoo.com/>http://taxes.yahoo.com/
        >
        >
        >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
        >ADVERTISEMENT
        >
        >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        >freestateproject-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        >
        >
        >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
        ><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo! Terms of Service.


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Wen Shi Di
        ... Thank Phil, This was much more of the positive response that I was expecting. I am already trying to convince a few Asian and Chinese editors that this is
        Message 3 of 7 , Mar 7, 2003
        • 0 Attachment
          At 06:07 PM 3/4/03 -0600, you wrote:
          >Any and all potential participants will be very welcome, providing only that
          >they believe in the value of freedom. The project, however, is intended to
          >effect change through the political process by moving 20000 people to a
          >particular place in order to cooperate in such an effort. The calculations
          >of success are based on the premise of involvement from approximately 20000
          >active voters. Therefore, it is important that the 20000 people who count
          >towards the decision to move be almost all able to participate in the
          >political process essentially upon arrival.
          >
          >Please do not interpret this as an attitude or attempt to exclude anyone.
          >You are welcome and would be valued. Any contributions you could make would
          >be appreciated. It would be hoped that you and others in a similar position
          >who joined us would take steps to become able to participate in the
          >political process, but of course it would not be required.
          >
          >PhilB

          Thank Phil,
          This was much more of the positive response that I was
          expecting. I am already trying to convince a few Asian and Chinese editors
          that this is going to be a big story but as you can imagine a few are a
          little afraid of covering something that addresses freedoms and rights so
          directly. In the meantime I'll keep trying.

          Chris
          GZ

          > > Chris wrote:
          > > One large group of libertarians that the FSP project seems to be ignoring
          >are the thousands of PTs that are currently spread all over the world. Many
          >of them are among the most determined sovereign individuals on the planet
          >with a great deal of valuable knowledge and experience in opposing the
          >system yet they seem to be marginalised for not being US voters. If these
          >people have already shown their commitment to the libertarian cause by
          >escaping the reaches of the western pseudo-democracies, why shouldn't they
          >be welcomed when the free state is finally formed? In addition many of
          >them, including myself are economically independent and ready to relocate
          >almost immediately. Why do I get the feeling that potential participants
          >are only really welcome if they are already vote casting US citizens?
          >
          >
          >
          >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          >ADVERTISEMENT
          >
          >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          >freestateproject-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          >
          >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
          ><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo! Terms of Service.


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • David Mincin
          Hey Chris.hope you keep trying.reminds me of and old Johnnie Mellencamp song Aint That America Dave ... From: Wen Shi Di To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
          Message 4 of 7 , Mar 7, 2003
          • 0 Attachment
            Hey Chris.hope you keep trying.reminds me of and old Johnnie Mellencamp song "Aint That America"
            Dave

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Wen Shi Di
            To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 4:23 AM
            Subject: Re: [FSP] RE: marginalized for not being US voters


            At 06:07 PM 3/4/03 -0600, you wrote:
            >Any and all potential participants will be very welcome, providing only that
            >they believe in the value of freedom. The project, however, is intended to
            >effect change through the political process by moving 20000 people to a
            >particular place in order to cooperate in such an effort. The calculations
            >of success are based on the premise of involvement from approximately 20000
            >active voters. Therefore, it is important that the 20000 people who count
            >towards the decision to move be almost all able to participate in the
            >political process essentially upon arrival.
            >
            >Please do not interpret this as an attitude or attempt to exclude anyone.
            >You are welcome and would be valued. Any contributions you could make would
            >be appreciated. It would be hoped that you and others in a similar position
            >who joined us would take steps to become able to participate in the
            >political process, but of course it would not be required.
            >
            >PhilB

            Thank Phil,
            This was much more of the positive response that I was
            expecting. I am already trying to convince a few Asian and Chinese editors
            that this is going to be a big story but as you can imagine a few are a
            little afraid of covering something that addresses freedoms and rights so
            directly. In the meantime I'll keep trying.

            Chris
            GZ

            > > Chris wrote:
            > > One large group of libertarians that the FSP project seems to be ignoring
            >are the thousands of PTs that are currently spread all over the world. Many
            >of them are among the most determined sovereign individuals on the planet
            >with a great deal of valuable knowledge and experience in opposing the
            >system yet they seem to be marginalised for not being US voters. If these
            >people have already shown their commitment to the libertarian cause by
            >escaping the reaches of the western pseudo-democracies, why shouldn't they
            >be welcomed when the free state is finally formed? In addition many of
            >them, including myself are economically independent and ready to relocate
            >almost immediately. Why do I get the feeling that potential participants
            >are only really welcome if they are already vote casting US citizens?
            >
            >
            >
            >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            >ADVERTISEMENT
            >
            >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            >freestateproject-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            >
            >
            >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
            ><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo! Terms of Service.


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



            Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            ADVERTISEMENT




            To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            freestateproject-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Mary Lou Seymour
            I don t think this is accurate; I know PTs who retain their voter registration and vote in a state of their selection, no reason it couldnt be the free State
            Message 5 of 7 , Mar 7, 2003
            • 0 Attachment
              I don't think this is accurate; I know PTs who retain their voter
              registration and vote in a state of their selection, no reason it couldnt be
              the free State (depending on what the residency/voting requirements of
              the chosen state are, of course.) Which is, BTW, an important
              parameter in state choice!

              > Perpetual Travelers have opted out of the system and thus are not able
              > to influence it by their votes. While such individuals are welcome,
              > they wouldn't count toward the 20k unless they decided to become
              > residents of the Free State.
            • devilsadvocate0113
              Hmmm, I thought 80% of our effort was going to be recruiting/working with/working within established bureacracy getting our agenda installed/instilled? How are
              Message 6 of 7 , Mar 8, 2003
              • 0 Attachment
                Hmmm, I thought 80% of our effort was going to be recruiting/working
                with/working within established bureacracy getting our agenda
                installed/instilled?

                How are these PT folks going to help? (my parents lived that
                lifestyle for a lotta years...but they weren't around _nearly_ enough
                to be participants....much less activists....

                Am I missing something here?




                --- In freestateproject@yahoogroups.com, "Mary Lou Seymour"
                <libertymls@k...> wrote:
                > I don't think this is accurate; I know PTs who retain their voter
                > registration and vote in a state of their selection, no reason it
                couldnt be
                > the free State (depending on what the residency/voting requirements
                of
                > the chosen state are, of course.) Which is, BTW, an important
                > parameter in state choice!
                >
                > > Perpetual Travelers have opted out of the system and thus are not
                able
                > > to influence it by their votes. While such individuals are
                welcome,
                > > they wouldn't count toward the 20k unless they decided to become
                > > residents of the Free State.
              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.