Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

RE: marginalized for not being US voters

Expand Messages
  • Philip Boncer
    Any and all potential participants will be very welcome, providing only that they believe in the value of freedom. The project, however, is intended to effect
    Message 1 of 7 , Mar 4, 2003
    • 0 Attachment
      Any and all potential participants will be very welcome, providing only that
      they believe in the value of freedom. The project, however, is intended to
      effect change through the political process by moving 20000 people to a
      particular place in order to cooperate in such an effort. The calculations
      of success are based on the premise of involvement from approximately 20000
      active voters. Therefore, it is important that the 20000 people who count
      towards the decision to move be almost all able to participate in the
      political process essentially upon arrival.

      Please do not interpret this as an attitude or attempt to exclude anyone.
      You are welcome and would be valued. Any contributions you could make would
      be appreciated. It would be hoped that you and others in a similar position
      who joined us would take steps to become able to participate in the
      political process, but of course it would not be required.

      PhilB

      > Chris wrote:
      > One large group of libertarians that the FSP project seems to be ignoring
      are the thousands of PTs that are currently spread all over the world. Many
      of them are among the most determined sovereign individuals on the planet
      with a great deal of valuable knowledge and experience in opposing the
      system yet they seem to be marginalised for not being US voters. If these
      people have already shown their commitment to the libertarian cause by
      escaping the reaches of the western pseudo-democracies, why shouldn't they
      be welcomed when the free state is finally formed? In addition many of
      them, including myself are economically independent and ready to relocate
      almost immediately. Why do I get the feeling that potential participants
      are only really welcome if they are already vote casting US citizens?
    • Mike Lorrey
      ... the world. Perpetual Travelers have opted out of the system and thus are not able to influence it by their votes. While such individuals are welcome, they
      Message 2 of 7 , Mar 5, 2003
      • 0 Attachment
        --- Philip Boncer <elroyj@...> wrote:
        > Any and all potential participants will be very welcome, providing
        > only that they believe in the value of freedom.

        > > Chris wrote:
        > > One large group of libertarians that the FSP project seems to be
        > ignoring are the thousands of PTs that are currently spread all over
        the world.

        Perpetual Travelers have opted out of the system and thus are not able
        to influence it by their votes. While such individuals are welcome,
        they wouldn't count toward the 20k unless they decided to become
        residents of the Free State.

        "A man who says there is nothing worth dying for has nothing worth
        living for."

        While PTs are welcome, don't expect me to get all fired up excited
        unless they are going to actually take a stand.

        =====
        Mike Lorrey
        "Live Free or Die, Death is not the Worst of Evils."
        - Gen. John Stark
        "Pacifists are Objectively Pro-Fascist." - George Orwell
        "Treason doth never Prosper. What is the Reason?
        For if it Prosper, none Dare call it Treason..." - Ovid

        __________________________________________________
        Do you Yahoo!?
        Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
        http://taxes.yahoo.com/
      • Wen Shi Di
        ... That s not true. I have only opted out of paying taxes, submitting myself to out of date laws and being forced to depend on a system that destroys
        Message 3 of 7 , Mar 7, 2003
        • 0 Attachment
          At 09:16 PM 3/5/03 -0800, you wrote:
          >Perpetual Travelers have opted out of the system and thus are not able
          >to influence it by their votes. While such individuals are welcome,
          >they wouldn't count toward the 20k unless they decided to become
          >residents of the Free State.

          That's not true. I have only opted out of paying taxes, submitting myself
          to out of date laws and being forced to depend on a system that destroys
          everything but the very elite.
          I still exercise my right to vote, use my original passport when beneficial
          and write to my government representative when i fell it is necessary.

          >"A man who says there is nothing worth dying for has nothing worth
          >living for."
          Staying in these so called democracies as a working citizen is the modern
          equivalent of living death in many peoples opinions.

          >While PTs are welcome, don't expect me to get all fired up excited
          >unless they are going to actually take a stand.

          I am not really sure what you are referring to by making a stand.

          Some might say that the only real way to see the truth of how the system of
          economic government works is to get out of it, thereby gaining some real
          objectivity. There are many PTs out there living a truly libertarian
          lifestyle (and have been doing so for many years) who could be very useful
          sources of knowledge and experience in helping to set up the FSP. Many
          feel like exiles from an unjust system and have been looking for an
          opportunity like this for a long time so they can put down some roots and
          work together with other like minded free thinkers.

          I am surprised to learn that one's overall philosophy in life is far less
          important than ones nationality.
          Kinda defeats the object really.

          Chris



          >=====
          >Mike Lorrey
          >"Live Free or Die, Death is not the Worst of Evils."
          > - Gen. John Stark
          >"Pacifists are Objectively Pro-Fascist." - George Orwell
          >"Treason doth never Prosper. What is the Reason?
          >For if it Prosper, none Dare call it Treason..." - Ovid
          >
          >__________________________________________________
          >Do you Yahoo!?
          >Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
          ><http://taxes.yahoo.com/>http://taxes.yahoo.com/
          >
          >
          >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          >ADVERTISEMENT
          >
          >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          >freestateproject-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          >
          >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
          ><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo! Terms of Service.


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Wen Shi Di
          ... Thank Phil, This was much more of the positive response that I was expecting. I am already trying to convince a few Asian and Chinese editors that this is
          Message 4 of 7 , Mar 7, 2003
          • 0 Attachment
            At 06:07 PM 3/4/03 -0600, you wrote:
            >Any and all potential participants will be very welcome, providing only that
            >they believe in the value of freedom. The project, however, is intended to
            >effect change through the political process by moving 20000 people to a
            >particular place in order to cooperate in such an effort. The calculations
            >of success are based on the premise of involvement from approximately 20000
            >active voters. Therefore, it is important that the 20000 people who count
            >towards the decision to move be almost all able to participate in the
            >political process essentially upon arrival.
            >
            >Please do not interpret this as an attitude or attempt to exclude anyone.
            >You are welcome and would be valued. Any contributions you could make would
            >be appreciated. It would be hoped that you and others in a similar position
            >who joined us would take steps to become able to participate in the
            >political process, but of course it would not be required.
            >
            >PhilB

            Thank Phil,
            This was much more of the positive response that I was
            expecting. I am already trying to convince a few Asian and Chinese editors
            that this is going to be a big story but as you can imagine a few are a
            little afraid of covering something that addresses freedoms and rights so
            directly. In the meantime I'll keep trying.

            Chris
            GZ

            > > Chris wrote:
            > > One large group of libertarians that the FSP project seems to be ignoring
            >are the thousands of PTs that are currently spread all over the world. Many
            >of them are among the most determined sovereign individuals on the planet
            >with a great deal of valuable knowledge and experience in opposing the
            >system yet they seem to be marginalised for not being US voters. If these
            >people have already shown their commitment to the libertarian cause by
            >escaping the reaches of the western pseudo-democracies, why shouldn't they
            >be welcomed when the free state is finally formed? In addition many of
            >them, including myself are economically independent and ready to relocate
            >almost immediately. Why do I get the feeling that potential participants
            >are only really welcome if they are already vote casting US citizens?
            >
            >
            >
            >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            >ADVERTISEMENT
            >
            >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            >freestateproject-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            >
            >
            >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
            ><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo! Terms of Service.


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • David Mincin
            Hey Chris.hope you keep trying.reminds me of and old Johnnie Mellencamp song Aint That America Dave ... From: Wen Shi Di To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
            Message 5 of 7 , Mar 7, 2003
            • 0 Attachment
              Hey Chris.hope you keep trying.reminds me of and old Johnnie Mellencamp song "Aint That America"
              Dave

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Wen Shi Di
              To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 4:23 AM
              Subject: Re: [FSP] RE: marginalized for not being US voters


              At 06:07 PM 3/4/03 -0600, you wrote:
              >Any and all potential participants will be very welcome, providing only that
              >they believe in the value of freedom. The project, however, is intended to
              >effect change through the political process by moving 20000 people to a
              >particular place in order to cooperate in such an effort. The calculations
              >of success are based on the premise of involvement from approximately 20000
              >active voters. Therefore, it is important that the 20000 people who count
              >towards the decision to move be almost all able to participate in the
              >political process essentially upon arrival.
              >
              >Please do not interpret this as an attitude or attempt to exclude anyone.
              >You are welcome and would be valued. Any contributions you could make would
              >be appreciated. It would be hoped that you and others in a similar position
              >who joined us would take steps to become able to participate in the
              >political process, but of course it would not be required.
              >
              >PhilB

              Thank Phil,
              This was much more of the positive response that I was
              expecting. I am already trying to convince a few Asian and Chinese editors
              that this is going to be a big story but as you can imagine a few are a
              little afraid of covering something that addresses freedoms and rights so
              directly. In the meantime I'll keep trying.

              Chris
              GZ

              > > Chris wrote:
              > > One large group of libertarians that the FSP project seems to be ignoring
              >are the thousands of PTs that are currently spread all over the world. Many
              >of them are among the most determined sovereign individuals on the planet
              >with a great deal of valuable knowledge and experience in opposing the
              >system yet they seem to be marginalised for not being US voters. If these
              >people have already shown their commitment to the libertarian cause by
              >escaping the reaches of the western pseudo-democracies, why shouldn't they
              >be welcomed when the free state is finally formed? In addition many of
              >them, including myself are economically independent and ready to relocate
              >almost immediately. Why do I get the feeling that potential participants
              >are only really welcome if they are already vote casting US citizens?
              >
              >
              >
              >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              >ADVERTISEMENT
              >
              >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              >freestateproject-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              >
              >
              >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
              ><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo! Terms of Service.


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



              Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              ADVERTISEMENT




              To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              freestateproject-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Mary Lou Seymour
              I don t think this is accurate; I know PTs who retain their voter registration and vote in a state of their selection, no reason it couldnt be the free State
              Message 6 of 7 , Mar 7, 2003
              • 0 Attachment
                I don't think this is accurate; I know PTs who retain their voter
                registration and vote in a state of their selection, no reason it couldnt be
                the free State (depending on what the residency/voting requirements of
                the chosen state are, of course.) Which is, BTW, an important
                parameter in state choice!

                > Perpetual Travelers have opted out of the system and thus are not able
                > to influence it by their votes. While such individuals are welcome,
                > they wouldn't count toward the 20k unless they decided to become
                > residents of the Free State.
              • devilsadvocate0113
                Hmmm, I thought 80% of our effort was going to be recruiting/working with/working within established bureacracy getting our agenda installed/instilled? How are
                Message 7 of 7 , Mar 8, 2003
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hmmm, I thought 80% of our effort was going to be recruiting/working
                  with/working within established bureacracy getting our agenda
                  installed/instilled?

                  How are these PT folks going to help? (my parents lived that
                  lifestyle for a lotta years...but they weren't around _nearly_ enough
                  to be participants....much less activists....

                  Am I missing something here?




                  --- In freestateproject@yahoogroups.com, "Mary Lou Seymour"
                  <libertymls@k...> wrote:
                  > I don't think this is accurate; I know PTs who retain their voter
                  > registration and vote in a state of their selection, no reason it
                  couldnt be
                  > the free State (depending on what the residency/voting requirements
                  of
                  > the chosen state are, of course.) Which is, BTW, an important
                  > parameter in state choice!
                  >
                  > > Perpetual Travelers have opted out of the system and thus are not
                  able
                  > > to influence it by their votes. While such individuals are
                  welcome,
                  > > they wouldn't count toward the 20k unless they decided to become
                  > > residents of the Free State.
                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.