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Re: [FSP] Some observations on human behaviour and the FSP

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  • Jake Witmer
    I d welcome you, if you re willing to pick up a gat and blast stormtroopers, as they re ramming down my front door.
    Message 1 of 13 , Mar 3, 2003
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      I'd welcome you, if you're willing to pick up a gat and blast stormtroopers,
      as they're ramming down my front door.

      on 3/3/03 6:48 AM, Wen Shi Di at wenshidi@... wrote:

      > At 03:35 PM 2/26/03 -0600, you wrote:
      >> I actually believe much of the rejection is coming from a choice between
      >> freedom and convenience. They say "it won't work" because they do not live
      >> anywhere near the Canadian border, Delaware, Wyoming, or South Dakota, and
      >> they don't plan to move there.
      >
      > One large group of libertarians that the FSP project seems to be ignoring
      > are the thousands of PTs that are currently spread all over the
      > world. Many of them are among the most determined sovereign individuals on
      > the planet with a great deal of valuable knowledge and experience in
      > opposing the system yet they seem to be marginalised for not being US
      > voters. If these people have already shown their commitment to the
      > libertarian cause by escaping the reaches of the western
      > pseudo-democracies, why shouldn't they be welcomed when the free state is
      > finally formed? In addition many of them, including myself are
      > economically independent and ready to relocate almost immediately. Why do
      > I get the feeling that potential participants are only really welcome if
      > they are already vote casting US citizens?
      >
      > Chris
      > GZ
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
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    • Zack Bass <yahoo@world-wide-web.com>
      ... ignoring ... individuals on ... state is ... Why do ... welcome if ... If the U.S. Government would let them into the country, many of you would ALREADY be
      Message 2 of 13 , Mar 4, 2003
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        --- In freestateproject@yahoogroups.com, Wen Shi Di <wenshidi@y...> wrote:
        >
        > One large group of libertarians that the FSP project seems to be
        ignoring
        > are the thousands of PTs that are currently spread all over the
        > world. Many of them are among the most determined sovereign
        individuals on
        > the planet with a great deal of valuable knowledge and experience in
        > opposing the system yet they seem to be marginalised for not being US
        > voters. If these people have already shown their commitment to the
        > libertarian cause by escaping the reaches of the western
        > pseudo-democracies, why shouldn't they be welcomed when the free
        state is
        > finally formed? In addition many of them, including myself are
        > economically independent and ready to relocate almost immediately.
        Why do
        > I get the feeling that potential participants are only really
        welcome if
        > they are already vote casting US citizens?
        >

        If the U.S. Government would let them into the country, many of you
        would ALREADY be here, although not necessarily voters.

        As far as we are concerned, you are quite welcome to come and fight
        for freedom. We are happy to have your support.
        How are you gonna get past the Border?

        By the way, what's a PT?
      • Wen Shi Di
        ... Sorry, I did not mean to ruffle any feathers ... As I travel I run into more and more people who left the west because of disillusionment. I am sure that
        Message 3 of 13 , Mar 5, 2003
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          At 08:13 PM 3/3/03 -0600, Jeff R wrote:
          >I think ignored might be a little strong.

          Sorry, I did not mean to ruffle any feathers

          > Most of us might not be aware
          >of your existence. The people that fought the American Revolution were
          >not all "Americans", but the fight was just and many stuck around. I,
          >for one, would welcome anyone from anywhere who want to help the cause.
          >The more people that know how to live free, the more people who can
          >learn in a shorter period of time.

          As I travel I run into more and more people who left the west because of
          disillusionment. I am sure that a lot of these people would love to return
          under the right circumstances and it would be much easier to sell the FSP
          idea to them than to most Americans who are still subject to the constant
          brainwashing.

          At 06:09 PM 3/3/03 -0800, Jan wrote:
          >What are PTs?

          Sometimes permanent travellers, sometimes previous taxpayers, sometime
          perpetual tourists. We follow the five flag theory of George Schulz (at
          least loosely) based on the assumption that any government always treats
          visitors from other nations far better than it does its own citizens. Most
          are also very strong libertarians.

          At 11:33 PM 3/3/03 -0600, hardcore homesteader wrote:
          >I'd welcome you, if you're willing to pick up a gat and blast stormtroopers,
          >as they're ramming down my front door.

          I am willing as a last option but would much prefer to talk about
          concealment and camoflage, and maybe even possible escape routes rather
          than direct confrontation. I do not want to be part of the next Waco.

          Later At 11:07 PM 3/4/03 +0800, George wrote:
          Hi Chris,

          I don't believe that anyone is trying to prevent or discourage foreigners
          from participating in the FSP. But given that the vast majority of us are
          here in the US, and that most of the people we know and have worked with
          politically are in the US, it is only natural that we would tend to look
          towards those people. I don't believe that many people here would know how
          to find folks outside the US, there are the language barriers to overcome
          (since Americans are notoriously unilingual) and so on.

          I was not thinking about foreigners really just those who have already escaped.
          I gave up the concept of nationality many years ago. I wonder if the FSP
          is going to be very "American" or is the fact that this 'free state' is
          still part of the US simply going to be coincidental?

          I believe this issue was addressed on some of the FSP groups last fall. As
          far as I know you all are welcome to come and join the party. We can use
          all the help we can get.

          Thanks. Do you know of any other long term expats that have expressed an
          interest in returning?

          Chris

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • No Free Lunch
          ... PT = Perpetual Traveler ... Someone who is not currently Resident of any State or Nation. Interesting tidbit... Resident , as defined by Vattel in The
          Message 4 of 13 , Mar 5, 2003
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            >> One large group of libertarians that the FSP project seems to be ignoring
            >> are the thousands of PTs that are currently spread all over the
            >> world.

            > What are PTs?

            PT = 'Perpetual Traveler'...

            Someone who is not currently 'Resident' of any State or Nation.

            Interesting tidbit...

            'Resident', as defined by Vattel in 'The Law of Nations' means
            'an *alien* given permission to permanently inhabit a State and
            engage in business'.

            Charles
          • Bill Hartwell
            ... I had the same question. The only tentative answer I can come up with is Permanent Tourists ? That s just a guess, but it comes from remembering someone
            Message 5 of 13 , Mar 5, 2003
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              On Mon, 2003-03-03 at 19:09, Jan Eiland wrote:
              > What are PTs?
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: Wen Shi Di
              > To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 4:48 AM
              > Subject: Re: [FSP] Some observations on human behaviour and the FSP
              >
              >
              > One large group of libertarians that the FSP project seems to be ignoring
              > are the thousands of PTs that are currently spread all over the
              > world.

              I had the same question. The only tentative answer I can come up with is
              "Permanent Tourists"?

              That's just a guess, but it comes from remembering someone else
              describing himself as a permanent tourist because he'd sold all his real
              property, moved into a Class A motorhome, and lives wherever he can park
              it, then moving on when the local anti-freedom laws start to get too
              irritating.

              --
              All private email sent with PGP encryption. Email for key.
              Homepage: http://www.macmanusnet.net/
              Freedom in our lifetime: http://www.freestateproject.org
              Enforce the Bill of Rights: http://www.lneilsmith.com/bor_enforcement.html
              Gun control: The belief that we should ban guns because people have a
              "right to feel safe," but the right to feel safe by owning firearms for
              defense is not valid.


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Mykl Meagher
              ... Mykl= I have been a PT most of my life and am always meeting these types. Few are Americans, but all are looking for a place similiar to what the FSP wants
              Message 6 of 13 , Mar 7, 2003
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                >"One large group of libertarians that the FSP project seems to be ignoring are the >thousands of PTs that are currently spread all over the world. Many of them are >among the most determined sovereign individuals on the planet with a great deal of >valuable knowledge and experience in opposing the system . . . "

                Mykl= I have been a PT most of my life and am always meeting these types. Few are Americans, but all are looking for a place similiar to what the FSP wants to build.

                I wouldn't worry about PTs. I think they will hear about our success fast enough and some will move in with us. Others will support us from a distance. Some may even be trading partners in other countries.

                About voting. Some PTs will be able to vote and some Westerners may become US citizens just to be able to vote. The ones I'd like to see come are the Asians who would have a hard time getting into the US right now because of visa restraints. These are some of the most industrious free-marketeers you could meet. They aren't looking for a job, they want to be free to make a business. If we want to see our little corner of the world prosper, I think we need to figure out a way to get them (legally)past US immigration and into our state. (20,000 libertarians will be 40,000 entrepreneurs in no time.)



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