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Water & The West + Roaches in the East!!!!

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  • B Irvin
    ... Water in the greater Northwest (including ID, MT, and WY) is cheap. It isn t something one thinks much about, unless you intend to irrigate a1000 acres.
    Message 1 of 16 , Aug 1, 2002
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      G wrote:

      >My water bill is $5/mo + $10/mo sewer. $15*55 years *12 months=$9,900
      >for a lifetime of city water. Actually the $15/mo really costs the city
      >around a dime so it is a tax and quite profitable for a city. It seems
      >most people don't care about the mark-up, perhaps because it is still
      >cheaper than drilling and maintaining your own well for most people who
      >move a lot. Maybe just because they don't realize they are being rooked.
      >When I consider the 20,000 South Americans who recently died of cholera
      >because the WHO thought treating the water would be dangerous, I'm glad
      >the city adds chlorine. Although I think I'd prefer ozone since it
      >smells a bit nicer even though it costs a little more.

      Water in the greater Northwest (including ID, MT, and WY) is cheap. It
      isn't something one thinks much about, unless you intend to irrigate a1000
      acres. Its cheap! ID, MT, and WY put together have less than the metro
      population of Atlanta and together are larger than France and germany
      combined. I tend to lease apartments on the edge of town and the water
      is always free...it has been that way in most places I've lived (even in AZ).

      One thing that might be of interest to our Eastern members is a list of critters
      we do not have in Idaho, Montana, or Wyoming. When you come here, you can say
      "goodbye" to them forever. The list of missing critters includes: roaches, chiggers,
      water moccasins, copperheads, coral snakes, most lizards (above 3500'), possums,
      fire ants, and a thousand and one other insects that plague the East and especially
      the southeast. The loss of roaches alone, should make the ID, MT, or WY stay
      worthwhile.

      Ben

















      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • G
      ... No roaches, my god, it is paradise! The 1 to 2 long ones here are enough to make me jump up on a chair and scream like the women on those old cartoons.
      Message 2 of 16 , Aug 1, 2002
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        On Thu, 2002-08-01 at 21:05, B Irvin wrote:

        > One thing that might be of interest to our Eastern members is a list of critters
        > we do not have in Idaho, Montana, or Wyoming. When you come here, you can say
        > "goodbye" to them forever. The list of missing critters includes: roaches, chiggers,
        > water moccasins, copperheads, coral snakes, most lizards (above 3500'), possums,
        > fire ants, and a thousand and one other insects that plague the East and especially
        > the southeast. The loss of roaches alone, should make the ID, MT, or WY stay
        > worthwhile.
        >
        > Ben
        No roaches, my god, it is paradise! The 1" to 2" long ones here are
        enough to make me jump up on a chair and scream like the women on those
        old cartoons. I'd move tonight if I could.

        I would miss the reptiles. Are there any snakes? Possum tastes pretty
        good deep fried with collards and fixins. Fire ants almost killed my
        sister and step father several times. A general lack of bugs is a good
        thing to me. I see mosquitoes and ticks are conspicuously missing from
        the list. Any other bloodsuckers? BTW, do you sell used cars or real
        estate?;)


        --
        If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular
        error.
        -- John Kenneth Galbraith
      • Jason P Sorens
        ... Most of those aren t found in New England either. :) ________________________________________________________________________ Jason P
        Message 3 of 16 , Aug 1, 2002
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          On Thu, 1 Aug 2002, B Irvin wrote:

          > One thing that might be of interest to our Eastern members is a list of critters
          > we do not have in Idaho, Montana, or Wyoming. When you come here, you can say
          > "goodbye" to them forever. The list of missing critters includes: roaches, chiggers,
          > water moccasins, copperheads, coral snakes, most lizards (above 3500'), possums,
          > fire ants, and a thousand and one other insects that plague the East and especially
          > the southeast. The loss of roaches alone, should make the ID, MT, or WY stay
          > worthwhile.

          Most of those aren't found in New England either. :)

          ________________________________________________________________________

          Jason P Sorens---jason.sorens@...---http://pantheon.yale.edu/~jps35

          http://www.freestateproject.org - Do you want liberty in your lifetime?
        • B Irvin
          ... No roaches or copperheads in NH or VT? However, it is only fair to mention a few of the critters found in ID, MT, and WY but not in the East or New
          Message 4 of 16 , Aug 1, 2002
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            Jason wrote in reference to B. Irvin's comments:

            >> One thing that might be of interest to our Eastern members is a list of critters
            >> we do not have in Idaho, Montana, or Wyoming. When you come here, you can say
            >> "goodbye" to them forever. The list of missing critters includes: roaches, chiggers,
            >> water moccasins, copperheads, coral snakes, most lizards (above 3500'), possums,
            >> fire ants, and a thousand and one other insects that plague the East and especially
            >> the southeast. The loss of roaches alone, should make the ID, MT, or WY stay
            >> worthwhile.

            >Most of those aren't found in New England either. :)

            No roaches or copperheads in NH or VT? However, it is only fair to mention
            a few of the critters found in ID, MT, and WY but not in the East or New England:
            mule deer, Wyoming sub-species of moose, elk, mountain goats, big horn sheep,
            horned toad (below 3500' and south of Billings), prairie rattlers (below 4000'),
            lynx, mountain lion (not swamp panthers), wolves (unless in Maine), coyotes (unless
            they have recently arrived), antelope, grizzly bears, wolverines, Franklin's grouse,
            sage grouse, chukards, unabombers, mountain quail, Harlequin quail, valley quail,
            blue grouse, sharptail grouse, polygamous sect of Mormons (joke), jack rabbits,
            golden trout, cutthroat trout, bull trout, steelhead trout (well maybe in Maine), and
            green eyed horse fly.

            Ben

            .


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • G
            I ve been giving thought to how long it s going to take FSP to get it s 20K members. There isn t enough data to say with any degree of certainty, but it
            Message 5 of 16 , Aug 1, 2002
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              I've been giving thought to how long it's going to take FSP to get it's
              20K members. There isn't enough data to say with any degree of
              certainty, but it appears vaguely exponential. Although, it should be
              noted, that's the kind of growth I want to see.

              There are as many ways for things to grow as there are things.
              10,20,30,40
              2,4,8,16,32,64
              1,2,3,5,8,13,21
              to name a few.
              The 2,4,8,16 type growth seems to me to be the best approximation for
              what FSP has had over the last 10 months. In fact, with much reading of
              tea leaves and several dead chickens, I've come to think it likely that
              FSP will have it's 20,000 in about 4.5 years. I hope so, because the
              10,20,30 type growth would take about 21 years.

              Exponential growth, something like y=kx^2+c is quite common in nature
              and not unreasonable for us to hope for. We need to snowball and I
              think we are. As we've grown, publicity has increased which brings in
              more people which in turn allows for even more publicity and so on. If
              every month 13% more people than the previous month sign up, January
              2004 will bring the vote for which state and by the end of that year
              we'd have our 20000.

              So maybe a 13% increase in new members from the previous month would be
              a good goal for us to set? Granted, it's just math not real life, but
              the number is easy to swallow and goal setting may help motivate us. 13%
              is also a lower target than what has already been achieved so it doesn't
              seem unreasonably high. But then, I ran those numbers a few days ago, my
              memory is piss poor, and that was a damn fine shot of rum.
              g
              --
              If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular
              error.
              -- John Kenneth Galbraith
            • Mary Lou Seymour
              Yeah, I ve noticed that many people are really freaked by bugs. A cat is the house takes care of roaches. A couple of cats in the yard take care of snakes.
              Message 6 of 16 , Aug 1, 2002
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                Yeah, I've noticed that many people are really freaked by bugs. A cat is the
                house takes care of roaches. A couple of cats in the yard take care of
                snakes. Chiggers, hell, just give pine straw a wide birth and tuck your pants
                legs into your boots in he woods. Ticks, yeah, I HATE ticks. the scorpions in
                Florida (and in the desert areas in the West) I really really hated. New
                England (Maine, at least) has these awful black flies in the summer (kinda
                like horseflies or deer flies). Lizards are great, they eat skeeters too. Fire
                ants, yuck, are a problem, but there's this powder stuff I use that keeps them
                away. I'm more concerned about water than bugs, frankly:-)

                > On Thu, 1 Aug 2002, B Irvin wrote:
                >
                > > One thing that might be of interest to our Eastern members is a list
                > > of critters we do not have in Idaho, Montana, or Wyoming. When you
                > > come here, you can say "goodbye" to them forever. The list of
                > > missing critters includes: roaches, chiggers, water moccasins,
                > > copperheads, coral snakes, most lizards (above 3500'), possums, fire
                > > ants, and a thousand and one other insects that plague the East and
                > > especially the southeast. The loss of roaches alone, should make
                > > the ID, MT, or WY stay worthwhile.
                >
                > Most of those aren't found in New England either. :)
                >
                > ______________________________________________________________________
                > __
                >
                > Jason P
                > Sorens---jason.sorens@...---http://pantheon.yale.edu/~jps35
                >
                > http://www.freestateproject.org - Do you want liberty in your
                > lifetime?
                >
                >
                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                >
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                > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >
              • Mary Lou Seymour
                ... I guess you just don t get my point. Govt Water here is cheap too. So is govt sewer. I just have an aversion to treated water, and, I prefer not to be
                Message 7 of 16 , Aug 1, 2002
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                  > Water in the greater Northwest (including ID, MT, and WY) is cheap.
                  > It isn't something one thinks much about, unless you intend to
                  > irrigate a1000 acres. Its cheap!

                  I guess you just don't get my point. Govt Water here is "cheap" too. So is
                  govt sewer. I just have an aversion to treated water, and, I prefer not to be
                  "chained" to govt systems, particularly for water, which is a necessity. I
                  realize that most people don't share this opinion of govt water & sewer, I'm
                  not asking you to. If you're happy with it, thats your affair. I simply am trying
                  to get input that will help ME decide whether, or not, these states are viable
                  FOR ME. I'm not suggesting that "availability of private water/sewer" be
                  added as a parameter to the research committee (as I was with the
                  homeschooking and FIJA parameters).
                • G
                  ... I seem to be the only pest my cat attacks: Mary, I don t know first hand, but I ve heard composting toilets or even the kind that burn the waste work
                  Message 8 of 16 , Aug 1, 2002
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                    On Thu, 2002-08-01 at 22:53, Mary Lou Seymour wrote:
                    > Yeah, I've noticed that many people are really freaked by bugs. A cat is the
                    > house takes care of roaches. >
                    I seem to be the only pest my cat attacks:\

                    Mary, I don't know first hand, but I've heard composting toilets or even
                    the kind that burn the waste work well. Should do in a pinch if the perc
                    rate isn't good. My friend's aunt has the former, he says the smell
                    isn't any worse than the normal kind. Composting probably isn't all that
                    much more expensive. Only thing that puzzles me about the whole thing is
                    they changed their diet to be able to give up toilet paper. They're a
                    bit odd though, so probably has nothing to do with the composting
                    process. We used to dump our gray water on the garden and the plants
                    loved it. Overall though, I'm beginning to come to the conclusion that
                    the West isn't some freaky new planet where nothing is as expected.

                    Water sounds plentiful and that's the main thing.
                    g
                    --
                    When my brain begins to reel from my literary labors, I make an
                    occasional
                    cheese dip.
                    -- Ignatius Reilly
                  • Adam Gonnerman
                    If the roaches can t live there, how do we plan to survive? Adam G. ... _______________________ THE FREE STATE PROJECT -- LIBERTY IN OUR LIFETIME
                    Message 9 of 16 , Aug 2, 2002
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                      If the roaches can't live there, how do we plan to survive?

                      Adam G.


                      >From: G <ggarber@...>
                      >Reply-To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                      >To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                      >Subject: Re: [FSP] Water & The West + Roaches in the East!!!!
                      >Date: 01 Aug 2002 21:38:13 -0400
                      >
                      >On Thu, 2002-08-01 at 21:05, B Irvin wrote:
                      >
                      > > One thing that might be of interest to our Eastern members is a list of
                      >critters
                      > > we do not have in Idaho, Montana, or Wyoming. When you come here, you
                      >can say
                      > > "goodbye" to them forever. The list of missing critters includes:
                      >roaches, chiggers,
                      > > water moccasins, copperheads, coral snakes, most lizards (above 3500'),
                      >possums,
                      > > fire ants, and a thousand and one other insects that plague the East and
                      >especially
                      > > the southeast. The loss of roaches alone, should make the ID, MT, or WY
                      >stay
                      > > worthwhile.
                      > >
                      > > Ben
                      >No roaches, my god, it is paradise! The 1" to 2" long ones here are
                      >enough to make me jump up on a chair and scream like the women on those
                      >old cartoons. I'd move tonight if I could.
                      >
                      >I would miss the reptiles. Are there any snakes? Possum tastes pretty
                      >good deep fried with collards and fixins. Fire ants almost killed my
                      >sister and step father several times. A general lack of bugs is a good
                      >thing to me. I see mosquitoes and ticks are conspicuously missing from
                      >the list. Any other bloodsuckers? BTW, do you sell used cars or real
                      >estate?;)
                      >
                      >
                      >--
                      >If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular
                      >error.
                      > -- John Kenneth Galbraith
                      >




                      _______________________
                      THE FREE STATE PROJECT -- LIBERTY IN OUR LIFETIME
                      http://www.freestateproject.org

                      Christian Mission to Brazil
                      http://brazil_evangelist.tripod.com/cmb


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                    • Jason P Sorens
                      ... I can only remember one time seeing a roach in Connecticut, and I never saw a copperhead, though I didn t spend much time in rivers and swamps. :) I
                      Message 10 of 16 , Aug 2, 2002
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                        On Thu, 1 Aug 2002, B Irvin wrote:

                        > No roaches or copperheads in NH or VT?

                        I can only remember one time seeing a roach in Connecticut, and I never
                        saw a copperhead, though I didn't spend much time in rivers and swamps. :)
                        I imagine NH & VT would be even less susceptible to such critters with
                        their higher elevations and shorter summers.

                        > mule deer, Wyoming sub-species of moose, elk,

                        Actually, moose are fairly plentiful in northern New England. I can't
                        speak to most of the varieties of fish & birds you mention, though.

                        Jason
                      • Jason P Sorens
                        Interesting analysis. We can probably achieve 13% growth, but it puts a lot of pressure on the final months. Some of the infrastructure for that growth spurt
                        Message 11 of 16 , Aug 2, 2002
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                          Interesting analysis. We can probably achieve 13% growth, but it puts a
                          lot of pressure on the final months. Some of the infrastructure for that
                          growth spurt will have to be put into place beforehand.

                          ________________________________________________________________________

                          Jason P Sorens---jason.sorens@...---http://pantheon.yale.edu/~jps35

                          http://www.freestateproject.org - Do you want liberty in your lifetime?
                        • steph_wilde
                          If we each took responsibility for recruiting one new member every six months, we could easily achieve our goals. I figure if I m going to take my liberty
                          Message 12 of 16 , Aug 2, 2002
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                            If we each took responsibility for recruiting one new member every six months, we could
                            easily achieve our goals.

                            I figure if I'm going to take my liberty seriously enough to be prepared to move
                            anywhere in the U.S. in search of it, I can darn well make the effort to recruit a few people
                            to come along.

                            :),
                            Steph


                            --- In freestateproject@y..., Jason P Sorens <jason.sorens@y...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Interesting analysis. We can probably achieve 13% growth, but it puts a
                            > lot of pressure on the final months. Some of the infrastructure for that
                            > growth spurt will have to be put into place beforehand.
                            >
                            >
                            ______________________________________________________________________
                            __
                            >
                            > Jason P Sorens---jason.sorens@y...://pantheon.yale.edu/~jps35
                            >
                            > http://www.freestateproject.org - Do you want liberty in your lifetime?
                          • G
                            ... I m not sure it does put more pressure (on any individual) in the final months. Maybe it s a bit like a tree. One may add 13% to its size in the first
                            Message 13 of 16 , Aug 2, 2002
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                              On Fri, 2002-08-02 at 14:06, Jason P Sorens wrote:
                              >
                              > Interesting analysis. We can probably achieve 13% growth, but it puts a
                              > lot of pressure on the final months. Some of the infrastructure for that
                              > growth spurt will have to be put into place beforehand.
                              >
                              I'm not sure it does put more pressure (on any individual) in the final
                              months. Maybe it's a bit like a tree. One may add 13% to its size in
                              the first year, and still not look like much of anything. Five years
                              down the road, it may gain another 13% and the growth looks impressive
                              as all get out. Did any one cell in that tree have to work harder? Not
                              positive, but I don't think so.

                              The placing of the future infrastructure happens automagically as a
                              consequence of prior growth.

                              So it will seem very busy going from 5000 to 20,000 people in a year.
                              Those who refuse to delegate would burn out very quickly. But so far
                              people are delegating well, why would that change unless people start
                              power tripping.

                              Anyway, just a thought.

                              g
                              --
                              Catch a wave and you're sitting on top of the world.
                              -- The Beach Boys
                            • Anita Joule
                              Have you done the math on this. It is remarkable. ... I indeed we could each recruiting just two new members each year and then each of them do the same we
                              Message 14 of 16 , Aug 2, 2002
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                                Have you done the math on this. It is remarkable.

                                steph_wilde wrote:

                                > If we each took responsibility for recruiting one new member every six
                                > months, we could
                                > easily achieve our goals.

                                I indeed we could each recruiting just two new members each year and
                                then each of them do the same we would reach our goal in under four
                                years. As a matter of fact, in four years we would have over 40,000.
                                It certainly seems like a reasonable goal for each of us doesn't.
                                Anita
                              • Semper Liberi
                                ... From: Mary Lou Seymour ... the ... pants ... Couple o guineas will take care of those ticks! And as an added bonus, you
                                Message 15 of 16 , Aug 2, 2002
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                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: "Mary Lou Seymour" <libertymls@...>
                                  > Yeah, I've noticed that many people are really freaked by bugs. A cat is
                                  the
                                  > house takes care of roaches. A couple of cats in the yard take care of
                                  > snakes. Chiggers, hell, just give pine straw a wide birth and tuck your
                                  pants
                                  > legs into your boots in he woods. Ticks, yeah, I HATE ticks.

                                  Couple o' guineas will take care of those ticks! And as an added bonus, you
                                  get to hear the delightful singing of the jungle fowl! :)

                                  > the scorpions in
                                  > Florida (and in the desert areas in the West) I really really hated. New
                                  > England (Maine, at least) has these awful black flies in the summer (kinda
                                  > like horseflies or deer flies). Lizards are great, they eat skeeters too.
                                  Fire
                                  > ants, yuck, are a problem, but there's this powder stuff I use that keeps
                                  them
                                  > away. I'm more concerned about water than bugs, frankly:-)

                                  I share your concern about the water. I don't like anyone putting anything
                                  in my water, and especially not the government. And, I definitely don't
                                  want anyone controlling my access to water! I can live without a lot of
                                  things, but water isn't one of them.

                                  Vicki
                                • G
                                  ... That is a much better way to say what I was trying to say. g -- Put not your trust in money, but put your money in trust.
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Aug 3, 2002
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                                    On Fri, 2002-08-02 at 22:56, Anita Joule wrote:
                                    > Have you done the math on this. It is remarkable.
                                    >
                                    > steph_wilde wrote:
                                    >
                                    > > If we each took responsibility for recruiting one new member every six
                                    > > months, we could
                                    > > easily achieve our goals.
                                    >
                                    > I indeed we could each recruiting just two new members each year and
                                    > then each of them do the same we would reach our goal in under four
                                    > years. As a matter of fact, in four years we would have over 40,000.
                                    > It certainly seems like a reasonable goal for each of us doesn't.
                                    > Anita
                                    >
                                    That is a much better way to say what I was trying to say.
                                    g
                                    --
                                    Put not your trust in money, but put your money in trust.
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