Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

One-Party System

Expand Messages
  • Adam Gonnerman
    This one-party system business in Idaho has me a bit concerned. Some libertarians aren’t going to be too enthusiastic about getting involved in the state
    Message 1 of 19 , Aug 1, 2002
      This one-party system business in Idaho has me a bit concerned. Some
      libertarians aren�t going to be too enthusiastic about getting involved in
      the state GOP. The political action group might help, but I wonder if it
      will do much good, even if all 20,000 free staters are involved. If I knew
      which candidates in the Idaho GOP were free staters, I would feel better.
      Is New Hampshire better in this regard?
      By the way, I hope to sit down tomorrow evening (Friday) with my wife in a
      nice restaurant to discuss the Free State Project.




      _______________________
      THE FREE STATE PROJECT -- LIBERTY IN OUR LIFETIME
      http://www.freestateproject.org




      _________________________________________________________________
      Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
    • Mary Lou Seymour
      ... I must have missed this discussion. I, for one, will never ever in a million years have any thing whatsoever to do with either the GOP or the Demoncraps. I
      Message 2 of 19 , Aug 1, 2002
        > This one-party system business in Idaho has me a bit concerned. Some
        > libertarians aren’t going to be too enthusiastic about getting
        > involved in the state GOP.

        I must have missed this discussion. I, for one, will never ever in a million
        years have any thing whatsoever to do with either the GOP or the
        Demoncraps. I certainly am not going to MOVE somewhere and join or even
        vote for one of the two major parties. Yurk.

        The political action group might help, but
        > I wonder if it will do much good, even if all 20,000 free staters are
        > involved. If I knew which candidates in the Idaho GOP were free
        > staters, I would feel better. Is New Hampshire better in this regard?
        > By the way, I hope to sit down tomorrow evening (Friday) with my wife
        > in a nice restaurant to discuss the Free State Project.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > _______________________
        > THE FREE STATE PROJECT -- LIBERTY IN OUR LIFETIME
        > http://www.freestateproject.org
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > _________________________________________________________________ Send
        > and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
        >
        >
        > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
        > ---------------------~--> Discover Remote PC Acess Now
        > http://us.click.yahoo.com/p5uw2C/1ncEAA/Ey.GAA/XgSolB/TM
        > ---------------------------------------------------------------------~
        > ->
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > freestateproject-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        >
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
        > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
      • themistocles2002
        I ve been following this discussion with much interest, and I have to say that I m with Mary Lou. It seems obvious to me that our goals, both short- and
        Message 3 of 19 , Aug 1, 2002
          I've been following this discussion with much interest, and I have to
          say that I'm with Mary Lou. It seems obvious to me that our goals,
          both short- and long-term, will be in opposition to the Republicrats,
          a fact they will be well aware of. They won't wish to deal with us
          any more than we wish to deal with them.

          Jason also made reference to getting candidates to conform to our
          positions. I don't think this will ever be necessary. I have always
          assumed that once we make the move, there will be at least a handful
          of already well-known libertarian candidates and their experienced
          campaigners willing to jump on the bandwagon. We will be able to
          offer the easiest 20,000 votes they've ever received. Personally,
          I'm hoping that if L. Neil Smith will run for president with
          1,000,000 signatures, then he'll be willing to run for governor with
          20,000.


          --- In freestateproject@y..., "Mary Lou Seymour" <libertymls@f...>
          wrote:
          > > This one-party system business in Idaho has me a bit concerned.
          Some
          > > libertarians aren't going to be too enthusiastic about getting
          > > involved in the state GOP.
          >
          > I must have missed this discussion. I, for one, will never ever in
          a million
          > years have any thing whatsoever to do with either the GOP or the
          > Demoncraps. I certainly am not going to MOVE somewhere and join or
          even
          > vote for one of the two major parties. Yurk.
          >
          > The political action group might help, but
          > > I wonder if it will do much good, even if all 20,000 free staters
          are
          > > involved. If I knew which candidates in the Idaho GOP were free
          > > staters, I would feel better. Is New Hampshire better in this
          regard?
          > > By the way, I hope to sit down tomorrow evening (Friday) with my
          wife
          > > in a nice restaurant to discuss the Free State Project.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > _______________________
          > > THE FREE STATE PROJECT -- LIBERTY IN OUR LIFETIME
          > > http://www.freestateproject.org
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > _________________________________________________________________
          Send
          > > and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
          > >
          > >
          > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          > > ---------------------~--> Discover Remote PC Acess Now
          > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/p5uw2C/1ncEAA/Ey.GAA/XgSolB/TM
          > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
          ---~
          > > ->
          > >
          > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > > freestateproject-unsubscribe@y...
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          > >
          > >
        • Dan Weiner
          I tend to agree with Miz ML. WHat s the point of becoming a part of an existing political party when our mission is something completely different from
          Message 4 of 19 , Aug 1, 2002
            I tend to agree with Miz ML. WHat's the point of becoming a part of an existing political party when our mission is something completely different from their's?. Only the Libertarian Party has a potential as our kind of political party. If the local LP takes an interest and wants to add itselves to our mission, then great: we can become part of the LP. Otherwise, we need to have our own party. Just for grins, let's call it the Free State Party.

            Dan Weiner

            Gun Control: The theory that Matthew Shepard hanging from a fence post in Wyoming is morally superior to Matthew Shepard explaining to the local sheriff how his attackers got those fatal bullet wounds.
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Mary Lou Seymour
            To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 9:53 PM
            Subject: Re: [FSP] One-Party System


            > This one-party system business in Idaho has me a bit concerned. Some
            > libertarians aren't going to be too enthusiastic about getting
            > involved in the state GOP.

            I must have missed this discussion. I, for one, will never ever in a million
            years have any thing whatsoever to do with either the GOP or the
            Demoncraps. I certainly am not going to MOVE somewhere and join or even
            vote for one of the two major parties. Yurk.

            The political action group might help, but
            > I wonder if it will do much good, even if all 20,000 free staters are
            > involved. If I knew which candidates in the Idaho GOP were free
            > staters, I would feel better. Is New Hampshire better in this regard?
            > By the way, I hope to sit down tomorrow evening (Friday) with my wife
            > in a nice restaurant to discuss the Free State Project.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > _______________________
            > THE FREE STATE PROJECT -- LIBERTY IN OUR LIFETIME
            > http://www.freestateproject.org
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > _________________________________________________________________ Send
            > and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
            >
            >
            > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            > ---------------------~--> Discover Remote PC Acess Now
            > http://us.click.yahoo.com/p5uw2C/1ncEAA/Ey.GAA/XgSolB/TM
            > ---------------------------------------------------------------------~
            > ->
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > freestateproject-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >



            Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            ADVERTISEMENT




            To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            freestateproject-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


            ---
            Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
            Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
            Version: 6.0.377 / Virus Database: 211 - Release Date: 7/15/02


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Tim Condon
            ... That s false. There are lots of libertarians in the Republican party who eschew the play-politics of the national LP, while working to shove the GOP
            Message 5 of 19 , Aug 2, 2002
              At 03:30 AM 8/2/02 +0000, you wrote:
              >I've been following this discussion with much interest, and I have to
              >say that I'm with Mary Lou. It seems obvious to me that our goals,
              >both short- and long-term, will be in opposition to the Republicrats,
              >a fact they will be well aware of. They won't wish to deal with us
              >any more than we wish to deal with them.

              That's false. There are lots of libertarians in the Republican
              party who eschew the "play-politics" of the national LP, while working to
              shove the GOP toward more libertarian positions. Ron Paul is a Republican
              member of the House of Representatives. The Republican Liberty Caucus is a
              libertarian organization within the party. If you work to drive potential
              allies away, you may be successful, so be careful what you wish for. Tim C.
            • Ernest Moosa
              What is going to happen is that we will be verbally attacked by those in the Republican party with the most to lose. We will be labeled as druggies, kooks,
              Message 6 of 19 , Aug 2, 2002
                What is going to happen is that we will be verbally
                attacked by those in the Republican party with the
                most to lose.

                We will be labeled as druggies, kooks, racists,
                skinheads, and any other label that can be applied
                that will get us negative media attention.

                What do you think the response will be when you pass a
                law stating that you are free to be nude whenever you
                want? That you can carry a gun whenever you want?

                There is a lot of political power at stake. Just look
                at what happens as Libertarians run for office now.
                How many are given the nut/kook label? The
                libertarians themselves have asked if we have too many
                candidates that can be classified as kooks. What dose
                that do for our credibility?

                How many now call themselves republicans, yet vote
                otherwise?


                EJ




                --- Tim Condon <tim@...> wrote:
                > At 03:30 AM 8/2/02 +0000, you wrote:
                > >I've been following this discussion with much
                > interest, and I have to
                > >say that I'm with Mary Lou. It seems obvious to me
                > that our goals,
                > >both short- and long-term, will be in opposition to
                > the Republicrats,
                > >a fact they will be well aware of. They won't wish
                > to deal with us
                > >any more than we wish to deal with them.
                >
                > That's false. There are lots of
                > libertarians in the Republican
                > party who eschew the "play-politics" of the national
                > LP, while working to
                > shove the GOP toward more libertarian positions. Ron
                > Paul is a Republican
                > member of the House of Representatives. The
                > Republican Liberty Caucus is a
                > libertarian organization within the party. If you
                > work to drive potential
                > allies away, you may be successful, so be careful
                > what you wish for. Tim C.
                >
                >


                =====
                Where has your money been? HTTP://www.wheresgeorge.com
                "The individual is the single most important minority. If your rights are removed by the majority, you have been enslaved." EJ

                "If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; and posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." - Samuel Adams

                www.ejmoosa.com

                __________________________________________________
                Do You Yahoo!?
                Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
                http://health.yahoo.com
              • Tim Condon
                ... Dan, consider this: What if the FSPer s moved en masse into, say, Montana, and linked up with libertarian-leaning Republicans in that state, and then took
                Message 7 of 19 , Aug 2, 2002
                  At 11:44 PM 8/1/02 -0500, you wrote:
                  >I tend to agree with Miz ML. WHat's the point of becoming a part of an
                  >existing political party when our mission is something completely
                  >different from their's?. Only the Libertarian Party has a potential as our
                  >kind of political party. If the local LP takes an interest and wants to
                  >add itselves to our mission, then great: we can become part of the LP.
                  >Otherwise, we need to have our own party. Just for grins, let's call it
                  >the Free State Party.
                  >Dan Weiner

                  Dan, consider this: What if the FSPer's moved en masse into, say,
                  Montana, and linked up with libertarian-leaning Republicans in that state,
                  and then took over the Montana GOP? That would mean that the state GOP
                  would have the same positions as the national LP, it would serve to show
                  people all over the country that libertarians aren't scary anarchists (even
                  if you are), but rather are responsible actors on the national political
                  stage, and would further serve to move the national GOP more toward
                  libertarian positions, given the success enjoyed in Montana. Now, given
                  that scenario, you still refuse to consider using an existing, established
                  state Republican party as a possible vehicle to accomplish FSP goals? To
                  Dan and everyone else who shows such a visceral hostility toward
                  established parties: Here might be something that you can use, that will be
                  *helpful* to FSP goals. Why reject the very idea, the very notion,
                  out-of-hand? Tim C.
                • Ernest Moosa
                  Good points but... From my perspective, I have been betrayed by the Republican Party. I have been lied to. Principles abandoned. Individuals pushing the
                  Message 8 of 19 , Aug 2, 2002
                    Good points but...

                    From my perspective, I have been betrayed by the
                    Republican Party. I have been lied to. Principles
                    abandoned. Individuals pushing the priciples were
                    foreced to be quiet.

                    The Republicans would rather win an election than
                    stand on principle and lose. With that attitude, I do
                    not think they are a vehicle for anything besides
                    disappointment.

                    Sometime in life you must end the compromise and stand
                    for what is right.

                    EJ
                    --- Tim Condon <tim@...> wrote:
                    > At 11:44 PM 8/1/02 -0500, you wrote:
                    > >I tend to agree with Miz ML. WHat's the point of
                    > becoming a part of an
                    > >existing political party when our mission is
                    > something completely
                    > >different from their's?. Only the Libertarian Party
                    > has a potential as our
                    > >kind of political party. If the local LP takes an
                    > interest and wants to
                    > >add itselves to our mission, then great: we can
                    > become part of the LP.
                    > >Otherwise, we need to have our own party. Just for
                    > grins, let's call it
                    > >the Free State Party.
                    > >Dan Weiner
                    >
                    > Dan, consider this: What if the FSPer's
                    > moved en masse into, say,
                    > Montana, and linked up with libertarian-leaning
                    > Republicans in that state,
                    > and then took over the Montana GOP? That would mean
                    > that the state GOP
                    > would have the same positions as the national LP, it
                    > would serve to show
                    > people all over the country that libertarians aren't
                    > scary anarchists (even
                    > if you are), but rather are responsible actors on
                    > the national political
                    > stage, and would further serve to move the national
                    > GOP more toward
                    > libertarian positions, given the success enjoyed in
                    > Montana. Now, given
                    > that scenario, you still refuse to consider using an
                    > existing, established
                    > state Republican party as a possible vehicle to
                    > accomplish FSP goals? To
                    > Dan and everyone else who shows such a visceral
                    > hostility toward
                    > established parties: Here might be something that
                    > you can use, that will be
                    > *helpful* to FSP goals. Why reject the very idea,
                    > the very notion,
                    > out-of-hand? Tim C.
                    >
                    >


                    =====
                    Where has your money been? HTTP://www.wheresgeorge.com
                    "The individual is the single most important minority. If your rights are removed by the majority, you have been enslaved." EJ

                    "If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; and posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." - Samuel Adams

                    www.ejmoosa.com

                    __________________________________________________
                    Do You Yahoo!?
                    Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
                    http://health.yahoo.com
                  • Tim Condon
                    ... So? What else is new? ... So? They can label us all they want, when the true facts of how well the Freestate is doing is right there staring them in the
                    Message 9 of 19 , Aug 2, 2002
                      At 07:06 AM 8/2/02 -0700, you wrote:
                      >What is going to happen is that we will be verbally attacked by those in
                      >the Republican party with the most to lose.

                      So? What else is new?

                      >We will be labeled as druggies, kooks, racists, skinheads, and any other
                      >label that can be applied that will get us negative media attention.

                      So? They can label us all they want, when the true facts of how
                      well the Freestate is doing is right there staring them in the face. Facts
                      are stubborn things, even for biased media commentators and mainstreet
                      political party members.

                      >What do you think the response will be when you pass a law stating that
                      >you are free to be nude whenever you want? That you can carry a gun
                      >whenever you want?

                      Well, everyone in the rest of the country will probably go running
                      around waving their arms and the national media will proclaim that the sky
                      is falling. When the sky doesn't fall, and the Freestate continues to do
                      just fine, thank you, people will reconsider their irrational fears against
                      freedom. We might also point out that people already have the right to be
                      nude all they want in other places such as Germany, the French Riviera,
                      etc. And everyone in Vermont can already carry a gun whenever they want.

                      >There is a lot of political power at stake. Just look at what happens as
                      >Libertarians run for office now. How many are given the nut/kook label? The
                      >libertarians themselves have asked if we have too many candidates that can
                      >be classified as kooks. What does that do for our credibility?

                      That's my point: When responsible FSPer's accede to power in the
                      Freestate, people in America and throughout the world will see
                      that..."gee...maybe individual freedom and economic freedom aren't such
                      ridiculous and scary ideas after all. I want to find out *more* about this!"

                      >How many now call themselves republicans, yet vote otherwise?
                      >EJ

                      The answer: LOTS. Many people are registered Republicans (and some
                      Democrats, for all I know) so they can have an effect on choosing more
                      libertarian oriented candidates by voting in the primary elections. And
                      then they vote Libertarian in the general election, if the final main-party
                      candidates are unacceptable. Tim C.
                    • Tim Condon
                      ... Does all the above apply to Rep. Ron Paul? Tim C.
                      Message 10 of 19 , Aug 2, 2002
                        At 07:13 AM 8/2/02 -0700, you wrote:
                        >Good points but...From my perspective, I have been betrayed by the
                        >Republican Party. I have been lied to. Principles
                        >abandoned. Individuals pushing the priciples were foreced to be quiet.
                        >The Republicans would rather win an election than stand on principle and
                        >lose. With that attitude, I do not think they are a vehicle for anything
                        >besides disappointment. Sometime in life you must end the compromise and
                        >stand for what is right.
                        >EJ>

                        Does all the above apply to Rep. Ron Paul? Tim C.
                      • Jason P Sorens
                        ... Not right away, of course. But labels don t really matter, do they? If the Reps or Dems had a platform identical to the LP platform, I d vote for em! I
                        Message 11 of 19 , Aug 2, 2002
                          On Thu, 1 Aug 2002, Mary Lou Seymour wrote:

                          > I must have missed this discussion. I, for one, will never ever in a million
                          > years have any thing whatsoever to do with either the GOP or the
                          > Demoncraps. I certainly am not going to MOVE somewhere and join or even
                          > vote for one of the two major parties. Yurk.

                          Not right away, of course. But labels don't really matter, do they? If
                          the Reps or Dems had a platform identical to the LP platform, I'd vote for
                          'em! I think what most of us will be doing at first will be voting LP
                          while working from the inside in other arenas as well. Who knows - it's
                          probably far too early to have these discussions anyway, but I'm throwing
                          out ideas.

                          ________________________________________________________________________

                          Jason P Sorens---jason.sorens@...---http://pantheon.yale.edu/~jps35

                          http://www.freestateproject.org - Do you want liberty in your lifetime?
                        • Adam Gonnerman
                          Agreed. I don`t mind working with libertarians in the major parties, especially the GOP. But I`m not joining up either. Adam G. ... _______________________
                          Message 12 of 19 , Aug 2, 2002
                            Agreed. I don`t mind working with libertarians in the major parties,
                            especially the GOP. But I`m not joining up either.

                            Adam G.


                            >From: Tim Condon <tim@...>
                            >Reply-To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                            >To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                            >Subject: [FSP] Mainline party allies?
                            >Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 09:58:33 -0400
                            >
                            >At 03:30 AM 8/2/02 +0000, you wrote:
                            > >I've been following this discussion with much interest, and I have to
                            > >say that I'm with Mary Lou. It seems obvious to me that our goals,
                            > >both short- and long-term, will be in opposition to the Republicrats,
                            > >a fact they will be well aware of. They won't wish to deal with us
                            > >any more than we wish to deal with them.
                            >
                            > That's false. There are lots of libertarians in the Republican
                            >party who eschew the "play-politics" of the national LP, while working to
                            >shove the GOP toward more libertarian positions. Ron Paul is a Republican
                            >member of the House of Representatives. The Republican Liberty Caucus is a
                            >libertarian organization within the party. If you work to drive potential
                            >allies away, you may be successful, so be careful what you wish for. Tim C.
                            >




                            _______________________
                            THE FREE STATE PROJECT -- LIBERTY IN OUR LIFETIME
                            http://www.freestateproject.org

                            Christian Mission to Brazil
                            http://brazil_evangelist.tripod.com/cmb


                            _________________________________________________________________
                            Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
                          • Mary Lou Seymour
                            ... We wouldnt even be having this discussion as there d be no need for a free state:-), or, a LP. Over the last 20 years, I ve heard this infilitrate
                            Message 13 of 19 , Aug 2, 2002
                              > Not right away, of course. But labels don't really matter, do they?
                              > If the Reps or Dems had a platform identical to the LP platform, I'd
                              > vote for 'em!
                              We wouldnt even be having this discussion as there'd be no need for a free
                              state:-), or, a LP.
                              Over the last 20 years, I've heard this "infilitrate" discussion at million times.

                              I think what most of us will be doing at first will be
                              > voting LP while working from the inside in other arenas as well. Who
                              > knows - it's probably far too early to have these discussions anyway,
                              > but I'm throwing out ideas.

                              Well, I think its OK to discuss now, since the strategy to be employed
                              politically might affect the choice of a state, or, vice versa.
                            • Phyllis
                              ... In Idaho, you don t register by party, but the above strategy is that followed by most Libertarians and (I am sure) many Republicans and Democrats. It has
                              Message 14 of 19 , Aug 2, 2002
                                --- Tim Condon <tim@...> wrote:
                                > At 07:06 AM 8/2/02 -0700, you wrote:
                                >
                                > >How many now call themselves republicans, yet vote
                                > otherwise?
                                > >EJ
                                >
                                > The answer: LOTS. Many people are registered
                                > Republicans (and some
                                > Democrats, for all I know) so they can have an effect on
                                > choosing more
                                > libertarian oriented candidates by voting in the primary
                                > elections. And
                                > then they vote Libertarian in the general election, if
                                > the final main-party
                                > candidates are unacceptable. Tim C.

                                In Idaho, you don't register by party, but the above
                                strategy is that followed by most Libertarians and (I am
                                sure) many Republicans and Democrats. It has been my
                                personal strategy. (i.e., vote for the most libertarian
                                Republican in the primary).

                                Phyllis
                                >
                                >


                                =====
                                The saddest epitaph which can be carved in memory of a
                                vanished liberty is that it was lost because its possessors
                                failed to stretch forth a saving hand while yet there was
                                time.--George Sutherland, 1862-1942 US Supreme Court Justice

                                "May you live all the days of your life."
                                - Jonathan Swift
                              • Jason P Sorens
                                ... The difference is that the infiltration strategy has never had the numbers to be plausible... As I ve said before, I think infiltration is plausible only
                                Message 15 of 19 , Aug 2, 2002
                                  On Fri, 2 Aug 2002, Mary Lou Seymour wrote:

                                  > We wouldnt even be having this discussion as there'd be no need for a free
                                  > state:-), or, a LP.
                                  > Over the last 20 years, I've heard this "infilitrate" discussion at million times.

                                  The difference is that the infiltration strategy has never had the numbers
                                  to be plausible... As I've said before, I think infiltration is plausible
                                  only under certain conditions, and even then it will eventually be
                                  necessary to secede from the party and form our own party after we've
                                  got the candidates and respectability to make it work.

                                  ________________________________________________________________________

                                  Jason P Sorens---jason.sorens@...---http://pantheon.yale.edu/~jps35

                                  http://www.freestateproject.org - Do you want liberty in your lifetime?
                                • Mary Lou Seymour
                                  Oh sure it has. Both major parties have had numerous attempt from left and right to infiltrate and change their direction. Good grief, look at the 94
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Aug 2, 2002
                                    Oh sure it has. Both major parties have had numerous attempt from left and
                                    right to "infiltrate" and change their direction. Good grief, look at the 94
                                    "Contract for America" stuff. And leviathan lumbers on.

                                    Whatever. If "infiltrate" the majors is to be part of the strategy, it needs to be
                                    made clear. in an article or in the FAQ. Nothing I have read about the FSP
                                    until this moment has led me to believe that was part of the strategy. If you
                                    actually want this to happen (get the numbers) I think you'll need to make it
                                    clear that FSP is looking for people who will use that type of strategy.
                                    Otherwise, you'll not get anywhere near the numbers needed to even
                                    attempt to "infiltrate" even the local Republicrap precinct, and, the purists will
                                    be pissed off and feel betrayed.



                                    > The difference is that the infiltration strategy has never had the
                                    > numbers to be plausible... As I've said before, I think infiltration
                                    > is plausible only under certain conditions, and even then it will
                                    > eventually be necessary to secede from the party and form our own
                                    > party after we've got the candidates and respectability to make it
                                    > work.
                                    >
                                    > ______________________________________________________________________
                                    > __
                                    >
                                    > Jason P
                                    > Sorens---jason.sorens@...---http://pantheon.yale.edu/~jps35
                                    >
                                    > http://www.freestateproject.org - Do you want liberty in your
                                    > lifetime?
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                    > freestateproject-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                    > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                    >
                                    >
                                  • Dan Weiner
                                    This strategy is not considered a good idea in Texas, largely because if the LP candidates have to do a petition to get on the ballot, those who vote in texas
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Aug 3, 2002
                                      This strategy is not considered a good idea in Texas, largely because if the LP candidates have to do a petition to get on the ballot, those who vote in texas primaries cannot sign our petition. Fortunately, the Texas LP has not had to do a petition since 1980. There is always at least one statewide candidate who gets enough votes to keep our ballot status intact.

                                      Generally, most of us in Texsa consider this poor tactics. Those who are *that* anxious to work within the parties are encouraged to simply join the RLC or DFC. We figger it is better for the LP effort to be undiluted by messing around with the two socialist parties (republicrat and demopublican).

                                      Dan Weiner

                                      Gun Control: The theory that Matthew Shepard hanging from a fence post in Wyoming is morally superior to Matthew Shepard explaining to the local sheriff how his attackers got those fatal bullet wounds.
                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: Phyllis
                                      To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 10:02 PM
                                      Subject: Re: [FSP] Mainline party allies?



                                      --- Tim Condon <tim@...> wrote:
                                      > At 07:06 AM 8/2/02 -0700, you wrote:
                                      >
                                      > >How many now call themselves republicans, yet vote
                                      > otherwise?
                                      > >EJ
                                      >
                                      > The answer: LOTS. Many people are registered
                                      > Republicans (and some
                                      > Democrats, for all I know) so they can have an effect on
                                      > choosing more
                                      > libertarian oriented candidates by voting in the primary
                                      > elections. And
                                      > then they vote Libertarian in the general election, if
                                      > the final main-party
                                      > candidates are unacceptable. Tim C.

                                      In Idaho, you don't register by party, but the above
                                      strategy is that followed by most Libertarians and (I am
                                      sure) many Republicans and Democrats. It has been my
                                      personal strategy. (i.e., vote for the most libertarian
                                      Republican in the primary).

                                      Phyllis
                                      >
                                      >


                                      =====
                                      The saddest epitaph which can be carved in memory of a
                                      vanished liberty is that it was lost because its possessors
                                      failed to stretch forth a saving hand while yet there was
                                      time.--George Sutherland, 1862-1942 US Supreme Court Justice

                                      "May you live all the days of your life."
                                      - Jonathan Swift



                                      Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                      ADVERTISEMENT




                                      To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                      freestateproject-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



                                      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


                                      ---
                                      Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
                                      Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
                                      Version: 6.0.380 / Virus Database: 213 - Release Date: 7/24/02


                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Jason P Sorens
                                      ... needs to be ... Of course it s going to be 1 of the strategies, just because some of the people in the group favor such a strategy. Just as going with the
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Aug 3, 2002
                                        On Fri, 2 Aug 2002, Mary Lou Seymour wrote:

                                        > Whatever. If "infiltrate" the majors is to be part of the strategy, it
                                        needs to be
                                        > made clear. in an article or in the FAQ. Nothing I have read about the FSP
                                        > until this moment has led me to believe that was part of the strategy.

                                        Of course it's going to be 1 of the strategies, just because some of the
                                        people in the group favor such a strategy. Just as going with the LP and
                                        using direct action rather than voting are also going to be strategies,
                                        because there are people who favor them. There are going to be a bunch of
                                        different strategies - I wouldn't want the FSP to decree in advance what
                                        all of its participants are going to do.

                                        ________________________________________________________________________

                                        Jason P Sorens---jason.sorens@...---http://pantheon.yale.edu/~jps35

                                        http://www.freestateproject.org - Do you want liberty in your lifetime?
                                      • rich_tomasso
                                        ... The NH legislature is about 60-40 GOP-Dem, and voter registration is 30-30-40 GOP-Dem-Independent. Odds-making on what the mix will be after this election
                                        Message 19 of 19 , Aug 14, 2002
                                          --- "Adam Gonnerman" <freestatepatriot@h...> wrote:
                                          > This one-party system business in Idaho has me a bit concerned. Some
                                          > libertarians aren't going to be too enthusiastic about getting
                                          > involved in the state GOP. The political action group might help,
                                          > but I wonder if it will do much good, even if all 20,000 free
                                          > staters are involved. If I knew which candidates in the Idaho GOP
                                          > were free staters, I would feel better.
                                          > Is New Hampshire better in this regard?

                                          The NH legislature is about 60-40 GOP-Dem, and voter registration
                                          is 30-30-40 GOP-Dem-Independent.

                                          Odds-making on what the mix will be after this election are a mixed
                                          bag given the supreme court radically changed the house districts.
                                          But the GOP is expected to win back the governorship, unless we do,
                                          of course!
                                        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.