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Re: [FSP] Re: New Member Introduction

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  • Steven Smith
    Thanks for the welcome! ... I hope so! :-) There are a couple of gay libertarian lists I belong to and I ll do some promotion of the FSP there. We ll see how
    Message 1 of 8 , Jul 31, 2002
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      Thanks for the welcome!

      > Anyway I also think you and your partner will be an
      >invaluable help in figuring out a way to better market ourselves to
      >the gay/lesbian community.

      I hope so! :-) There are a couple of gay libertarian lists I belong to and
      I'll do some promotion of the FSP there. We'll see how it goes and I'll
      report back.

      >Libertarians are very pro-gay/lesbian
      >rights but it seems to me like libertarians haven't made many inroads
      >into this community. Perhaps it's because many libertarians focus on
      >taxes, reducing/eliminating gov't spending, and guns so maybe people
      >view them as extreme republicans. I also think this group is
      >weighted more towards the 'right' libertarians so the recent influx
      >of people who are focusing on social freedoms is good news in my
      >book. So again welcome thanks for joining and spread the word.
      >-Eddie

      I do think it's a PR problem with libertarians. Carla Howell, our
      Libertarian candidate for governor here in Mass. for November, has made some
      efforts. She marched in the Boston gay pride parade with the Pink Pistols
      and has gone on record as one of only two candidates to support gay
      marriage. Of course her position is the right one, IMHO, that the government
      should not have anything to do with marriage in the first place. The other
      candidate, Robert Reich (remember him from the Clinton years?), just wants
      to bring us into the big government fold so they can tax us more (again,
      IMHO)! ;-)

      I do think a better strategy for reaching out to other groups will help the
      FSP. I have been doing a lot of thinking about it and will develop some
      possible avenues. In my own circle of folks I have yet to get beyond the
      "shock phase" when I hit on certain issues of concern to gay folks -- e.g.
      proper self-defense vs. hate crimes laws, access to marijuana for AIDS
      patients, marriage as a civil contract vs. state sanctioned marriages of any
      kind, etc. I think the problem is that no one has approached them (us,
      whatever) with liberty-enhancing solutions to issues of concern for them.

      We'll see -- it should be an interesting next few years!

      All the best,

      Steve Smith
      Pink Pistols
      Mass. TRT
      Free State Project




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    • Elizabeth McKinstry
      So, um, should we set up an FSP Personals board on the forum? :^) ... From: G Reply-To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com To:
      Message 2 of 8 , Jul 31, 2002
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        So, um, should we set up an "FSP Personals" board on the forum? :^)

        ----Original Message Follows----
        From: G <ggarber@...>
        Reply-To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
        To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [FSP] Re: New Member Introduction
        Date: 31 Jul 2002 19:42:28 -0400

        Hi Steven & Patrick, glad to see I won't be the only queer in town:)

        Some people (me) here are crusty. Yeah, that's the exact word
        Webster's 1913
        [Possibly a corruption of cursty. Cf. Curst, Curstness.]
        Having a hard exterior, or a short, rough
        manner, though kind at heart; snappish; peevish; surly.
        I'd have to say that so far they strike me as the most honest and
        logically consistent people I've so far met. This is so much better to
        me than the hollow blob of cotton candy type people I usually meet. And
        no, this is still my 2nd pint. I'm just trying to say it's "safe" here,
        even if some of us seem a bit grumpy.

        So, great if you can bring more gay people into the fold, preferably
        mostly GWM 20-35, kind of geeky with a bit of a Wil Wheaton thing going
        on..., but hell, I'd settle with Patrick Stewert:)





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      • G
        ... But of course! Hell Smith and Wesson get more action than I do, and they re dead. -- A Smith & Wesson
        Message 3 of 8 , Jul 31, 2002
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          On Wed, 2002-07-31 at 20:40, Elizabeth McKinstry wrote:
          > So, um, should we set up an "FSP Personals" board on the forum? :^)
          <outrageous French accent>But of course!</outrageous French accent>
          Hell Smith and Wesson get more action than I do, and they're dead.
          --
          A Smith & Wesson beats four aces.
        • Adam Gonnerman
          ... Libertarians are very pro-gay/lesbian ... Eddie, Don t think it s so much that we are pro-gay/lesbian rights but we are rather pro-equal rights for
          Message 4 of 8 , Jul 31, 2002
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            >From: "eddie_g_bradford" <Eddie_G_Bradford@...>
            Libertarians are very pro-gay/lesbian
            >rights but it seems to me like libertarians haven't made many inroads
            >into this community.

            Eddie,

            Don't think it's so much that we are "pro-gay/lesbian rights" but we are
            rather "pro-equal rights for everybody." I mean this in a non-socialist
            sense, by the way. :)

            Adam G.
            _______________________
            THE FREE STATE PROJECT -- LIBERTY IN OUR LIFETIME
            http://www.freestateproject.org

            Christian Mission to Brazil
            http://brazil_evangelist.tripod.com/cmb


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          • eddie_g_bradford
            Yes yes I know, and when I first posted that message I considered going into a rather long diatribe about how we are pro-gay rights but not really because we
            Message 5 of 8 , Aug 1, 2002
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              Yes yes I know, and when I first posted that message I considered
              going into a rather long diatribe about how we are pro-gay rights but
              not really because we are really pro-everyone rights but not pro-
              special rights for any one group etc. etc. etc.

              but then I thought again about it and figured that in the situation
              in which I posted this message (a libertarian forum) it was implied
              that we don't take up special rights and that this distinction wasn't
              nessicary.
              -Eddie

              --- In freestateproject@y..., "Adam Gonnerman"
              <freestatepatriot@h...> wrote:
              > >From: "eddie_g_bradford" <Eddie_G_Bradford@h...>
              > Libertarians are very pro-gay/lesbian
              > >rights but it seems to me like libertarians haven't made many
              inroads
              > >into this community.
              >
              > Eddie,
              >
              > Don't think it's so much that we are "pro-gay/lesbian rights" but
              we are
              > rather "pro-equal rights for everybody." I mean this in a non-
              socialist
              > sense, by the way. :)
              >
              > Adam G.
              > _______________________
              > THE FREE STATE PROJECT -- LIBERTY IN OUR LIFETIME
              > http://www.freestateproject.org
              >
              > Christian Mission to Brazil
              > http://brazil_evangelist.tripod.com/cmb
              >
              >
              > _________________________________________________________________
              > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger:
              http://messenger.msn.com
            • Ernest Moosa
              Pro-Individualism is the only way to go. With that it becomes easy to understand what we are about. A place that you can be you. EJ ... ===== Where has your
              Message 6 of 8 , Aug 1, 2002
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                Pro-Individualism is the only way to go. With that it
                becomes easy to understand what we are about.

                A place that you can be you.

                EJ


                --- eddie_g_bradford <Eddie_G_Bradford@...>
                wrote:
                > Yes yes I know, and when I first posted that message
                > I considered
                > going into a rather long diatribe about how we are
                > pro-gay rights but
                > not really because we are really pro-everyone rights
                > but not pro-
                > special rights for any one group etc. etc. etc.
                >
                > but then I thought again about it and figured that
                > in the situation
                > in which I posted this message (a libertarian forum)
                > it was implied
                > that we don't take up special rights and that this
                > distinction wasn't
                > nessicary.
                > -Eddie
                >
                > --- In freestateproject@y..., "Adam Gonnerman"
                > <freestatepatriot@h...> wrote:
                > > >From: "eddie_g_bradford" <Eddie_G_Bradford@h...>
                > > Libertarians are very pro-gay/lesbian
                > > >rights but it seems to me like libertarians
                > haven't made many
                > inroads
                > > >into this community.
                > >
                > > Eddie,
                > >
                > > Don't think it's so much that we are
                > "pro-gay/lesbian rights" but
                > we are
                > > rather "pro-equal rights for everybody." I mean
                > this in a non-
                > socialist
                > > sense, by the way. :)
                > >
                > > Adam G.
                > > _______________________
                > > THE FREE STATE PROJECT -- LIBERTY IN OUR LIFETIME
                > > http://www.freestateproject.org
                > >
                > > Christian Mission to Brazil
                > > http://brazil_evangelist.tripod.com/cmb
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                _________________________________________________________________
                > > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger:
                > http://messenger.msn.com
                >
                >


                =====
                Where has your money been? HTTP://www.wheresgeorge.com
                "The individual is the single most important minority. If your rights are removed by the majority, you have been enslaved." EJ

                "If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; and posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." - Samuel Adams

                www.ejmoosa.com

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              • Tim Condon
                ... This probably oughtta go to the other list, but what the hell. Gays assert that they re not demanding special rights, only the rights that everyone else
                Message 7 of 8 , Aug 1, 2002
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                  At 03:23 PM 8/1/02 +0000, you wrote:
                  >Yes yes I know, and when I first posted that message I considered
                  >going into a rather long diatribe about how we are pro-gay rights but
                  >not really because we are really pro-everyone rights but not pro-
                  >special rights for any one group etc. etc. etc.
                  >
                  >but then I thought again about it and figured that in the situation
                  >in which I posted this message (a libertarian forum) it was implied
                  >that we don't take up special rights and that this distinction wasn't
                  >nessicary.
                  >-Eddie

                  This probably oughtta go to the other list, but what the hell.
                  Gays assert that they're not demanding "special rights," only the rights
                  that everyone else is entitled to (among the categories that discrimination
                  is prohibited on the basis of national law include race, age, sex, handicap
                  status, religion, and national origin. Libertarians, on the other hand,
                  refuse to recognize any "right" by anyone "not to be discriminated
                  against." If someone doesn't like...gays, blacks, hispanics, foreigners,
                  Catholics, women, Irish, Asians, Italians, etc. they have a perfect right
                  to discriminate against any such group, or any other group, on any basis
                  they please, both in their personal life and in their business life.
                  Libertarians don't like to talk about this area very much I've noticed, but
                  it's there. Thus, those who argue in favor of state action to outlaw
                  discrimination against various groups and categories are turned off by that
                  position. Such as most gays. Tim Condon
                • aerix88
                  This probably oughtta go to the other list, but what the hell. ... Seeing as though I am gay and Libertarian all rolled into one, I felt I should respond to
                  Message 8 of 8 , Aug 28, 2002
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                    This probably oughtta go to the other list, but what the hell.
                    > Gays assert that they're not demanding "special rights," only the rights
                    > that everyone else is entitled to (among the categories that discrimination
                    > is prohibited on the basis of national law include race, age, sex, handicap
                    > status, religion, and national origin. Libertarians, on the other hand,
                    > refuse to recognize any "right" by anyone "not to be discriminated
                    > against." If someone doesn't like...gays, blacks, hispanics, foreigners,
                    > Catholics, women, Irish, Asians, Italians, etc. they have a perfect right
                    > to discriminate against any such group, or any other group, on any basis
                    > they please, both in their personal life and in their business life.
                    > Libertarians don't like to talk about this area very much I've noticed, but
                    > it's there. Thus, those who argue in favor of state action to outlaw
                    > discrimination against various groups and categories are turned off by that
                    > position. Such as most gays. Tim Condon

                    Seeing as though I am gay and Libertarian all rolled into one, I felt I should
                    respond to your posting...

                    I don't believe in special rights for any group. I believe anyone can
                    discriminate against anyone that they damn well feel they should. However,
                    when it comes to rights, what most are referring to are those given by the
                    government. The government gets to decide who gets what rights (ie,
                    marriage rights) but they should not discriminate. As a Libertarian I believe an
                    individual may discriminate, but the state must not, as they are not allowed to
                    limit human rights.

                    Brett Porter.
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