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Re: [FSP] THIS is what is happening in the Free State of New Hampshire NOW

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  • Tim Condon
    Emancipation of minors isn t mentioned on the NHLA site. I wonder if it s a touch or don t touch issue. ... [Non-text portions of this message have been
    Message 1 of 47 , Mar 24 6:56 PM
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      Emancipation of minors isn't mentioned on the NHLA site. I wonder if it's a
      "touch" or "don't touch" issue.



      On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 3:46 PM, sandyinthe603 <scitarel@...> wrote:

      >
      >
      > I'd like to correct a misstatement regarding the New Hampshire Liberty
      > Alliance aka NHLA:
      >
      > --- In freestateproject@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen" <simplulo@...> wrote:
      > > We might follow the NHLA's list of untouchable issues (abortion,
      > immigration, emancipation of minors, gay marriage, right to work) except
      > when the pro-liberty position is clear even to the ideologically challenged.
      > >
      >
      > Abortion is indeed a "don't touch" issue. None of the others listed above
      > are. For further detail, please refer to our website:
      > http://www.nhliberty.org/policies
      >
      > --Sandy Pierre
      > Vice-Chair, New Hampshire Liberty Alliance
      >
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • garyonthenet
      None of this is completely preventing citizens from getting what they want; the government merely has to approve. Doesn t sound so good that way, does it?
      Message 47 of 47 , Mar 27 6:24 PM
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        None of this is completely preventing citizens from getting what they want; the government merely has to approve.

        Doesn't sound so good that way, does it?


        --- In freestateproject@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen" <simplulo@...> wrote:
        >
        > Not society at large of course, but the minor in question. There is uncertainty about the age of majority, and harm prevention suggestions erring on the high side. Many would argue that for the very concerns you raise we already err on the low side, that many kids in college display gross immaturity. But that's the compromise, with an emancipation process allowing for people to become adults at an earlier age. You're grossly exaggerating your case. None of this is completely preventing the minors from getting what they want; the parents merely have to approve.
        >
        > Accusations of socialism are unhelpful in discussions with libertarian theorists. I'm reminded of the absurdity of L. Neal Smith and the Free Talk Live gang exchanging them in their debate over IP, which not coincidentally is another one of the difficult areas.
        >
        > --- In freestateproject@yahoogroups.com, "GaryT" <garyonthenet@> wrote:
        > >
        > > A totally socialist argument.
        > >
        > > If a person is competant to make his own decisions, then having to wait 4 years more to do it, so society at large is not harmed by it, is completely unlibertarian.
        > >
        > > Gary T
        > >
        > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > From: Stephen
        > > To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
        > > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 7:56 PM
        > > Subject: Re: [FSP] THIS is what is happening in the Free State of New Hampshire NOW
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Like lots of seemingly arbitrary boundaries, the age of majority is based on the historical, collected, distilled experience of a lot of people. 18 is a reasonable number, knowing that it varies somewhat by individual. So what's the hurry? A 14-year-old who wants to have sex and abortions, and whose parents are opposed, just has to wait 4 years, trivial in comparison with the human lifespan. The harm caused by forcing a minor to wait (again, assuming that the parents refuse to grant permission) is far outweighed by the potential harm of not waiting. If they simply can't wait, we still have a process for minors to achieve emancipation:
        > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emancipation_of_minors#Emancipation_in_the_United_States
        > >
        > > It's silly (and in the view of many libertarians incorrect) to pose as more-libertarian-than-thou just because you favor an age of majority that is a tiny bit lower than someone else. If it makes you feel superior, fine, but don't touch my daughters until they're 18.
        > >
        > > --- In freestateproject@yahoogroups.com, "GaryT" <garyonthenet@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > There is nothing magical about the age 18. That is an arbitrary number made up via the experience that most people are somewhat cognizant at that age.
        > > >
        > > > I know many people who are under 18, who as cognizant or more so than many over 18.
        > > >
        > > > If a person has the wherewithal to want to get an abortion, I simply have to say, considering the self-ownership implications involved, that person is cognizant enough to make that decision herself w/o needing to get permission from either parent or the state.
        > > >
        > > > Jeesh, this should be simple for a bunch of libertarians.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > From: Lady Liberty
        > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 5:03 PM
        > > > To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
        > > > Subject: Re: [FSP] THIS is what is happening in the Free State of New Hampshire NOW
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > But Gary, they ARE lording it over you if they DON'T get parental
        > > > consent!
        > > >
        > > > Parents (or legal guardians) need to consent for every other kind of
        > > > non-emergency medical care, and this is (whatever else anybody may
        > > > think about it) medical care. And that seems entirely reasonable to me
        > > > since parents are responsible for their children on just about every
        > > > level.
        > > >
        > > > If the child is 18, then okay, living at home or not, no one should
        > > > have to sign off on their own decisions. But prior to that, anything
        > > > that doesn't require my consent is an abridgment of my parental rights.
        > > >
        > > > On Mar 22, 2011, at 4:16 PM, GaryT wrote:
        > > >
        > > > > No, even if you are apparent, I mean a Parent.
        > > > >
        > > > > Just because a law works for you, doesn't make it a libertarian one.
        > > > > The emphasis is on the individual and his/er rights, not someone
        > > > > else's lording over you.
        > > > >
        > > > > Gary T
        > > > >
        > > > > - Hide quoted text -
        > > > > On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 9:40 AM, Dreepa@ <mailto:dreepa%40yahoo.com> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > Unless you are a parent
        > > > >
        > > > > On Mar 22, 2011, at 3:07 AM, "GaryT" <mailto:garyonthenet%40yahoo.com> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > Most of it pretty good!
        > > > >
        > > > > Question tho:
        > > > > a.. HB 329 Parental notification when minors seek abortions
        > > > > Taint nothin libertarian about that.
        > > > >
        > > > > From: Tim Condon
        > > > > Sent: Monday, March 21, 2011 10:07 PM
        > > > > To: FS FSP
        > > > > Subject: [FSP] THIS is what is happening in the Free State of New
        > > > > Hampshire NOW
        > > > >
        > > > > If you haven't seen what happened in the NH state legislature last
        > > > > week,
        > > > > take a look at THIIS<http://granitegrok.com/blog/2011/03/the_rlcnh_report_whats_up_last_week_in_t.html
        > > > > >
        > > > > .
        > > > >
        > > > > New Hampshire: The emerging Hong Kong for an otherwise socialist
        > > > > America. If
        > > > > you believe in capitalism and freedom...ome and join us! ---Tim Condon
        > > > >
        > > > > And just remember, please don't have a
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > Yours for freedom,
        > > > Lady Liberty
        > > >
        > > > "The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant,
        > > > the active, the brave." Patrick Henry
        > > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
        > > > * * * * *
        > > > Make a move toward freedom!
        > > > http://www.freestatewyoming.org
        > > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
        > > > * * *
        > > > Lady Liberty's Constitution Clearing House
        > > > http://www.ladylibrty.com
        > > > Visit today for news and current events, original commentary, and a
        > > > patriotic goodie shoppe.
        > > >
        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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