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Re: [FSP] Re: Let's talk about the Free State Project

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  • Tim Condon
    [I m approving this as the last word on the subject on this list. The topic of who is libertarian enough is not on-topic here, and has caused divisiveness and
    Message 1 of 5 , Jan 6, 2011
      [I'm approving this as the last word on the subject on this list. The topic of who is libertarian enough is not on-topic here, and has caused divisiveness and problems when discessed here in the past. There are appropriate places for this sort of discussion. The Freedom in New Hampshire yahoo group is one; Tim also has a new yahoo group he announced on this list a while ago that would be appropriate; the "Granite Grok" blog he linked to in the initial post on this thread would also be a fine venue. -- PhilB]

      Heh. "Absolutely 100% incorrect wrong, Thom." First of all, I am not a
      social conservative. Second of all, the "obscene wars" you rail against seem
      to be an ongoing project by your Democrat friends, Obama having doubled down
      in Afghanistan and the anti-war movement seeming to have evaporated. New
      Hampshire has neither anything to do with them, nor anything it can do about
      them. Consult the U.S. Constitution. As for hijacking the cultural norm of
      marriage by gay activists (such as yourself), I have in the past and will
      continue to oppose it. Several years ago civil unions were approved in NH
      that made such unions legally equal in every way to "marriage." But the
      homosexual activist movement wouldn't stop at that; you want the culture to
      be forced to recognize the legitimacy of your way of life. Sorry, I and
      others owe you nothing other than tolerance. I see the gay movement as
      little different than the Mormon movement, the vegetarian movement, or
      swingers movement in that respect.

      As for several of the other issues you raise, they will not be addressed by
      New Hampshire because they're essentially federal issues and federal laws.
      However, to the extent that the Free State of New Hampshire *can* make a
      difference in the area of victimless crimes, we will (e.g. medical marijuana
      will pass with the Republican majority, although probably not this year
      because we're digging out from under the historically unprecedented $500
      million state budget deficit your Democrat friends have dug us into).

      Oh yes, one other thing: There is a reason that Democrats and other
      socialist statists are constantly pushing for "open borders" and the "dream"
      of illegal immigrants becoming citizens: Such incoming (illegal) immigrants
      generally have no loyalty, understanding, or investment in the U.S.
      Constitution or the traditional American Culture of capitalism,
      individualism, small government, personal responsibility, and individual
      liberty. But they sure do like the Welfare State that the Democrats (and
      many Republicans in the past) have used and are using to lure them into
      America. Under such circumstances, being in favor of "open borders" is an
      invitation to national suicide. But any rationally thinking person has
      already figured that out.

      All of the above is why there are "two libertarian movements." One, that I
      refer to as "rational" or "moderate" libertarians, strives to create a
      strong and free polity---in New Hampshire as well as in America---that will
      exist to protect the rights of people to life, rights, and property. The
      "other libertarian movement," which I refer to as the "non-rational
      anarchists" or "nutcases"---as opposed to Heinlein's "rational anarchists"
      in *The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress---*do all they can to disrupt and destroy *
      all* government, including the amount necessary to protect the lives,
      rights, and properties of the people. Not a good idea. In fact, extremely
      bad. On the other hand, the joke is this: "What's the difference between an
      anarchist and a libertarian-conservative?" Answer: "30 years."

      I'll be writing about all this, and the FSP, increasingly in the near
      future. Hope I don't get censored off the Free State Project list by the
      Timothy Condon, Esq.
      12 Liberty Lane, Grafton, NH 03240
      Cell 813-453-2379
      Office: 307 S. Fielding Ave., Suite #2
      Tampa, Florida 33606-4126
      813-251-2626 Fax 813-200-3395
      Email: tim@...

      NOTE: The contents of this e-mail and attachments are intended solely for
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      On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 7:16 AM, Thom <benchpress59@...> wrote:

      > Absolutely 100% incorect wrong, Dan.
      > Libertarianism is NOT the same as Conservatiism. The constant ltany by
      > some people (such as Tim C) that they are has resulted in the trumping of
      > liberty by social cosnservatism.
      > One hand, huh? We'll see how many hands so-called liberty-loving
      > Republicans will need to repeal Marriage Equality, enact Medical Marijuana,
      > enact anti-immigrant police powers and restrictions on businesses, and
      > promote police-statism in the arrest, interrogation,
      > prosecution, incarceration, and "reform" of those accused of crimes, both
      > victimless and not. On a federal level, the obscene continuation of wars in
      > places where we don't belong and the militarism of the state is primarily a
      > Republican dream come true.
      > Thom
      > --- On Wed, 1/5/11, Dan McGuire <danmcguire@...<danmcguire%40gmail.com>>
      > wrote:
      > From: Dan McGuire <danmcguire@... <danmcguire%40gmail.com>>
      > Subject: Re: [FSP] Re: Let's talk about the Free State Project
      > To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com <freestateproject%40yahoogroups.com>
      > Date: Wednesday, January 5, 2011, 10:19 PM
      > I love how people assume stuff like "Tea Partiers (in general) hold quite a
      > few anti-liberty positions". How do you know? Are there any authoritative
      > polls of Tea Partiers? Is there even any kind of list of Tea Partiers?
      > All the people I've seen at Tea Party rallies and events are the same
      > people
      > who have been with us all along: CNHT, NHLA, gun groups, etc.
      > Another easy one is the "true libertarians oppose the anti-liberty
      > positions
      > of both parties" canard. The anti-liberty positions of the typical
      > conservative Republican can be counted on one hand. The pro-liberty
      > positions of the typical Democrat are non-existent!
      > All of the Porcupines in the State House are Republicans. This isn't a
      > coincidence. We made the difference in electing a conservative House
      > leadership over the good old boys. As a consequence we were appointed to
      > several positions in leadership.
      > Dan
      > On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 8:07 PM, PhilB <phil@... <phil%40boncer.com>>
      > wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > > Do note, though, that the Free State Project differs a good deal from the
      > > Tea Party movement, in that the Free State Project is in favor of liberty
      > on
      > > all fronts, while the Tea Partiers (in general) hold quite a few
      > > anti-liberty positions. Similarly, the above article implies that the
      > Free
      > > State Project is there to oppose Democrats and align with Republicans,
      > > whereas a genuine liberty movement must oppose BOTH parties -- the
      > > anti-liberty positions and policies of the right conservatives as well as
      > > those of the left liberals.
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In freestateproject@yahoogroups.com<freestateproject%40yahoogroups.com>
      > <freestateproject%40yahoogroups.com>,
      > > Tim Condon <tim@...> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Indeed: Whither the Free State
      > > > Project,<
      > >
      > http://granitegrok.com/blog/2010/12/the_free_state_project_stumbles_and_why.html
      > > >and
      > >
      > > > what impact has it had on New Hampshire so far?
      > > >
      > > > Timothy Condon, Esq.
      > > > 12 Liberty Lane, Grafton, NH 03240
      > > > 207-956-9041
      > > > Ofc.: 307 S. Fielding Ave., Suite #2
      > > > Tampa, Florida 33606
      > > > 813-251-2626 Fax 813-200-3395
      > > > Email: tim@...
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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