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Re: [FSP] 1000 people on this list to come up with ideas:

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  • Chris Lawless
    There have been at least 3 emails asking for someone to lead this project on the doers yahoo group.  So far no takers. One person is seeing if they can get
    Message 1 of 56 , Dec 9, 2009
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      There have been at least 3 emails asking for someone to 'lead' this project on the doers yahoo group.  So far no takers.
      One person is seeing if they can get a party around the event.

      It looks like the event might happen around the Liberty Forum... so we might be turning that into the 'celebration' of the downhill slide.


      (Tickets are still available for the Liberty Forum... www.freestateproject.org/libertyforum )

      ****************************************

      I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!

      --- On Tue, 12/8/09, Tim Condon <tim@...> wrote:

      From: Tim Condon <tim@...>
      Subject: Re: [FSP] 1000 people on this list to come up with ideas:
      To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Tuesday, December 8, 2009, 11:05 PM







       









      It sounds like you're as busy as the proverbial one-armed paper-hanger,

      Phil. But it's *great* that you and Kristine are going to be able to move to

      freedom in New Hampshire! Stay the course, and there will be hundreds---if

      not thousands--- of us waiting to welcome you two "home to the Free State.".



      As for the theme, how about something like "NYA, NYA, NYA! You thought we

      couldn't do it, but we're on the downhill slide and heading toward 20,000

      signups! NOW will you join us, and help make Liberty in Our Lifetime a

      reality?" No? Too much taunting of the naysayers? Actually, it's something

      that the FSP national board of directors should be working on and making a

      reality (where ARE you guys?). Maybe put together a working group, and have

      a big press conference like we did when the choice of the Free State was

      announced. <http://www.forum freestateproject .org/taxonomy/ term/78?page= 6> It

      couldn't hurt to create some more national publicity, especially with

      America sliding toward socialist destruction, and with states like

      California, New York, and New Jersey already in fiscal chaos (while every

      other state except two or three are essentially bankrupt).



      What does everyone else think? (With apologies to anyone still left on the

      list who gets all wee-weed up over excessive discussion.) ---Tim Condon



      On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 1:09 AM, wolzybk <phil@boncer. com> wrote:



      > Well, that's pretty much what I had in mind. A suggestion, an idea, a

      > possible theme.

      >

      > I hadn't taken it any further than that; I've been absurdly busy. I have

      > started a good new project, about a year in length, that will finally make

      > it financially feasible to move to NH, so we're hoping to do so within the

      > next year or two now. It's fulltime+, lots of overtime available, and is 60

      > miles from home, so I'm pretty much making that happen right now, and not

      > much else.

      >

      > PhilB

      >

      > --- In freestateproject@ yahoogroups. com, Tim Condon <tim@...> wrote:

      > >

      > > I like the idea, Phil, especially "it's downhill all the way from here."

      > > What do you have in mind?

      > > =====

      > > On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 12:07 AM, wolzybk <phil@...> wrote:

      > >

      > > > We're coming up on 10,000 signed up. I do think that it would be a

      > good

      > > > milestone and worth some promotion when we hit that halfway mark. When

      > I

      > > > did events earlier on, one of the things that many people used as an

      > > > objection was that they thought we'd never get near enough signups. Of

      > > > course I always told them that they could help with that by signing up,

      > and

      > > > if they were right and not enough other people did, then they weren't

      > out

      > > > anything, or at any risk. But most of them just weren't willing to

      > sign on

      > > > to something they didn't see as being likely to ever get anywhere.

      > > >

      > > > So I think maybe a halfway, on-the-home- stretch,

      > > > it's-all-downhill- from-here, sort of campaign might be of some use in

      > > > showing people that this is really happening, even if it's taking a

      > while.

      > > >

      > > > PhilB

      >

      >

      >

      > ------------ --------- --------- ------

      >

      > Yahoo! Groups Links

      >

      >

      >

      >



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    • GaryT
      I have read some of CS Lewis philosophical works, and works similar to it. They are full on one-sided arguments, and just-so justifications for their
      Message 56 of 56 , Dec 11, 2009
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        I have read some of CS Lewis philosophical works, and works similar to it.
        They are full on one-sided arguments, and "just-so" justifications for their religious opinions.

        I find it quite frustrating to be spoon fed dribble masquerading as profound truth, from adults who cling to their childhood envisioned cosmologies, never having the courage to nip off from themselves what is most obviously redigested pagan creation myths.

        It is like an adult who refuses to affirm that human beings are physically just as much animal/mammal as other animals, 'because we are special'. Yet all the evidence smacks them in the face, they just affirmatively refuse to acknowledge it, because it deflates their worldview and their specialness in it.

        And speaking of 'just-so' stories, Judeo-Christianity an inspiration for most scientists, philosophers and libertarians?
        (Poets are another animal, so I don't comment on them here.)

        To the contrary, most contemporary scientists, philosophers and libertarians are agnostics or atheists. And those who are not, rigorously compartmentalize their two belief systems (in order to remain sane of course).

        Gary T


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Jon Isaac
        To: freestateproject
        Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 7:30 AM
        Subject: Re: [FSP] Working with non-pure libertarians



        Judeo-christianity is a mess, it is an excuse for incredible travesties. And
        yet it is the inspiration for most scientists, philosophers, poets, and
        libertarians throughout history. Shifting from our myopic little present and
        taking a much longer view of existence, the last century may turn out to be
        the most violent, atheist, oppressive century in history, and not more than
        a blip in a very religious experience. It's the fashion these days to take
        Dawkin's art as "Bible-truth," but truly open-minded people will step
        outside that little cocoon and wonder if it was just historic delusion that
        inspired the greatest minds throughout history to be fervently religious, or
        if it could have been a long-acknowledged wellspring for abolition, art and
        scientific investigation.

        Gary, if you are ever inclined to read about religion-- a real, robust
        religion -- as Dawkins and Hitchens don't dare discuss, pick up Mere
        Christianity by C.S. Lewis or Orthodoxy by G. K. Chesterton.

        Jon Isaac

        MCG School of Medicine, 2012
        404-550-5903 jisaac@...

        "...all that has been is but a slight intimation of what is to be." Neuhaus

        On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 3:09 PM, GaryT <garyonthenet@...> wrote:

        >
        >
        > And of course we must thank Judaism for the United States, for without that
        > there would have been no Christianity.
        >
        > I tend to think that Christianity just happened to be there; the original
        > principles that America was founded upon came about from Enlightenment
        > Philosophers, like Locke, Bacon, etc.
        > Christianity was there for the Crusades and the Spanish Inquisition, and
        > pogroms and the invasion of South America. Christianity has as its holy
        > book, an amalgam of parables and moral stories that say just about
        > everything at once, there isn't much there that isn't also contradicted or
        > marginalized logically somewhere else within the same book.
        >
        > The point is, Christianity as a moral or political force can be anything
        > and has been, from monarchiesa, to dictatorships, to benign friendly
        > nations, to whatever. It is a slippery definition, because it has so many.
        >
        > Gary T
        >
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: Tim Condon
        > To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com <freestateproject%40yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 2:31 AM
        > Subject: Re: [FSP] Working with non-pure libertarians
        >
        > At the first annual PorcFest, NH state Rep. Henry McElroy gave a speech in
        > which he said exactly that (he even had a Bible as a teaching aid). I'm not
        > much of a Christian (it's hard to get there), but I don't see anything
        > wrong
        > with recognizing the historical reality that all our freedoms, and Western
        > Civilization itself, would never have come about about but for
        > Christianity.
        > Don't attack me. I'm just quoting anarchist libertarian hero Dr. Murray
        > Rothbard.
        >
        > On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 1:02 AM, wolzybk <phil@...<phil%40boncer.com>>
        > wrote:
        >
        > > The big "if" is the "if it will move the goal forward". Someone might be
        > > 80%, or 90%, or 99.44% libertarian in his ideas, but if he's actively
        > > pursuing the *other* ideas, then it may not be enough. Conversely,
        > someone
        > > might be 5% libertarian, but if he is most active on that one
        > > freedom-related idea he does have, then he might well advance the goal.
        > > It's not necessarily about "purity", but about what it is that person is
        > > really trying to accomplish.
        > >
        > > A good example of this for me is the Constitution Party. They call
        > > themselves that, and they sometimes talk a good game of respecting the
        > > Constitution. If you issued them a libertarian questionnaire, they'd
        > score
        > > quite highly on it as a percentage. But if you get down to what they
        > really
        > > believe and work for, they believe as a party that the Constitution (and
        > > everything else) is subordinate to the Bible, and that America is a
        > > Christian country and should be governed that way. Which is a profoundly
        > > NON-libertarian idea, yet is the rock-bottom basis for their belief
        > system.
        > >
        > > So while I am perfectly happy to work with that party and the members of
        > it
        > > on common interests, I am very leery of helping them to have enough power
        > > and influence to pursue their full agenda.
        > >
        > > These are the sorts of considerations that must be addressed to see if
        > > someone is an asset or a barrier to "moving the goal forward", in a
        > > practical real-world sense. Not just "what do they say?", or even "what
        > do
        > > they believe?", but "what are they trying to actually do?"
        > >
        > > PhilB
        > >
        > > --- In freestateproject@yahoogroups.com<freestateproject%40yahoogroups.com>,
        > "GaryT" <garyonthenet@...> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Well then, I guess you will be able to work with 100% of the people and
        > > politicians, since almost everyone in America is at least 80%
        > libertarian.
        > > >
        > > > I would work with anyone who would help move the libertarian cause
        > > forward, the question is, are the 80%'ers willing to work with
        > libertarians
        > > - mostly I don't think so.
        > > >
        > > > Gary T
        > > >
        > > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > > From: Chris Lawless
        > > > To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com<freestateproject%40yahoogroups.com>
        > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 7:28 AM
        > > > Subject: Re: [FSP] Re: Moderators: please do your job - too many non
        > > FSP posts
        > > >
        > > > ... I would rather an active 80% ally then a purist who is not active
        > > if it will move the goal forward.
        > > >
        > > > ****************************************
        > > >
        > > > I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice!
        > > And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is
        > no
        > > virtue!
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ------------------------------------
        > >
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >

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