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Re: [FSP] Bob Giuda announces for U.S. House

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  • GaryT
    To the extent that socialists have hijacked the word liberal , and we can t use that (even though we sometimes call ourselves classical liberals ), neocons,
    Message 1 of 68 , Oct 27, 2009
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      To the extent that socialists have hijacked the word "liberal", and we can't use that (even though we sometimes call ourselves 'classical liberals'), neocons, jingoists, theocratists and xenophobes have commandeered the word 'conservative'.
      To try to 'take back' these labels is more trouble than it is worth, risking further misunderstanding of what a Libertarian is, and fighting upstream for no discernable reason. We already have a great political name, Libertarian.

      Gary T

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Tim Condon
      To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 6:07 PM
      Subject: Re: [FSP] Bob Giuda announces for U.S. House


      I'm fully aware of Hayek's short essay "Why I Am Not a
      Conservative."<http://www.fahayek.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=46>
      Ayn
      Rand also didn't like conservatives, for the obvious reason that
      conservatives were neither capitalist, nor free market oriented, nor in
      favor of individual freedom.

      But today is not then, and today's conservative is not yesterday's. I
      believe it's time to take the word back. Word's change. Times change. What
      we all "really" are is "liberals." But the word has been stolen and trashed
      by socialists and other collectivists.

      I argue that today's conservative is actually what Frank Meyer and the
      fusionists used to call a "libertarian-conservative." Barry Goldwater is a
      libertarian icon, but he never called himself a libertarian. He called
      himself a conservative, and led the conservative forces in an attempt to
      overthrow the socialist state that had been erected starting 32 years before
      by FDR and his collectivist "brain trust." That effort failed, largely due
      to the bad luck of Kennedy having been assassinated by a group of
      communists, probably in the employ of Fidel Castro. The monstrous welfare
      state we face today is a direct result of Kennedy's assassination, which
      allowed the formless and corrupt Lyndon Johnson to become President. The
      erection of the modern parasitical welfare state was his doing---or rather
      the ones around him---starting in 1965.

      I say that anyone who believes in individual freedom, free market
      capitalism, the Constitution, Western Civilization, the Declaration of
      Independence, and the Bill of Rights is a "conservative." Just like Barry
      Goldwater. In addition, it appears that we now have somewhat more of a
      threat in the face of the collapse and takeover of Western Europe by surging
      Islam. Some might think that life under Sharia law might be not all that
      much different than life under the law in western countries. I don't think
      so. So how about helping to "conserve" what we have, and retake the ground
      lost. By being "conservatives." --Tim C.

      On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 8:51 AM, Thom <benchpress59@...> wrote:

      >
      >
      >
      > Tim Condon wrote,
      >
      > "...libertarian-conservative, which is where we should all be
      > ideologically. Or, as I like to say, "rational libertarian..."
      >
      > No, Tim. It's is NOT where "we should all be."
      >
      > I agree with you 100% on the need to avoid "purity," and heck, I'll even go
      > for 75% (as opposed to 90%). I like to say "Pragmatic Libertarian," which
      > is your version of 'rational ibertarian,' I guess.
      >
      > But that insistence you have of including the word 'conservative' is just
      > plain old wrong. We do NOT have to be libertarian-conservatives. For many
      > of us, "conservative" is just as odious as 'liberal,' (as both use the power
      > of the state to enforce its pet issues, and for some in the FSP,
      > "liberal-libertarian is just fine as well.
      >
      > Remember which list you're posting to :-)
      >
      > Thom
      >
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      > Yahoo! Groups Links
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      >

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    • Tim Condon
      I ll be there! ---Tim Condon ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      Message 68 of 68 , Nov 13, 2009
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        I'll be there! ---Tim Condon




        On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 4:07 PM, Chris Lawless <dreepa@...> wrote:

        > come in March!
        >
        > Everyone on this list should come as well.
        >
        > The 4th annual Liberty Forum will be March 18 -21st.
        >
        > www.freestateproject.org/libertyforum
        >
        > The KeyNote speaker has been announced.
        > Sign up for early bird prices.
        >
        > ****************************************
        >
        > I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And
        > let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no
        > virtue!
        >
        > --- On Fri, 11/13/09, GaryT <garyonthenet@...> wrote:
        >
        > From: GaryT <garyonthenet@...>
        > Subject: Re: [FSP] Bob Giuda announces for U.S. House
        > To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
        > Date: Friday, November 13, 2009, 12:11 PM
        >
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        >
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        >
        > I am seriously considering it soon.
        >
        > I have started looking at properties, in Manchester, Concord and Keene.
        >
        >
        >
        > A new life and a new direction !
        >
        >
        >
        > Gary T
        >
        >
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        >
        > From: Tim Condon
        >
        > To: freestateproject@ yahoogroups. com
        >
        > Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 1:17 PM
        >
        > Subject: Re: [FSP] Bob Giuda announces for U.S. House
        >
        >
        >
        > Agreed, Phil. I have said all I want to say, except "Continue to support
        > the
        >
        > Free State Project, everyone, and move to New Hampshire as soon as you
        > can!
        >
        > As goes New Hampshire, ultimately so goes America." ---Tim Condon
        >
        >
        >
        > On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 12:57 PM, wolzybk <phil@boncer. com> wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        > > I would appreciate it if this topic could be allowed to die out soon.
        >
        > > Everyone on the list is now aware of the candidate in question and can
        >
        > > decide whether to support him or not. This has now devolved into a
        > squabble
        >
        > > about who's libertarian enough for whom, which is unproductive and
        > divisive,
        >
        > > and not what this list is for.
        >
        > >
        >
        > > I'm not going to moderate and squash the discussion right away, but
        > would
        >
        > > like to politely suggest that this horse is just about dead.
        >
        > >
        >
        > > I might also suggest that the "Freedom in New Hampshire" yahoo group,
        >
        > > already existing, is a more suitable venue for this type of discussion
        > in
        >
        > > the first place.
        >
        > >
        >
        > > PhilB
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        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
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