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Re: [FSP] Pls Digg... CBS picked this up

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  • Chris Lawless
    Carol I don t really know who you are directing that at. In NH it is 100% legal to have a gun in then open.  (see the video of the police officer and William)
    Message 1 of 27 , Aug 12, 2009
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      Carol I don't really know who you are directing that at.

      In NH it is 100% legal to have a gun in then open.  (see the video of the police officer and William)

      I won't speak for William but I know that many of the people that I was with at the 'rally' were also protesting President Bush in the past.  In fact the Obama fans couldn't figure us out because we were anti Government healthcare, anti occupation of Iraq, expansion of Afghan war, anti Bush etc etc.


      --- On Wed, 8/12/09, Carol Moore/Secession.Net <contacts@...> wrote:

      From: Carol Moore/Secession.Net <contacts@...>
      Subject: Re: [FSP] Pls Digg... CBS picked this up
      To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Wednesday, August 12, 2009, 6:20 AM






       





      And let's not forget "Gun toting to prove you are a "real man" can ruin

      a revolution."



      Not to mention where was he when Bush was stealing all our liberties,

      which Obama is merely expanding upon?? And where were the Republicans

      in producing a free market in health care the 6 years they controlled

      presidency, house and senate? Where's their united front on such an

      alternative now? Could it be: "Sold to the insurance industry that

      doesn't want competition, be it from lower priced individual plans

      (which would flourish if individuals got same tax break as business) and

      doesn't want cross-state competition, which currently is illegal. Just

      for starters...



      Chris Lawless wrote:

      > http://digg. com/politics/ Gun_Toting_ Man_Draws_ Scrutiny_ Outside_Obama_ Town_Hall

      >

      > and please forward

      >

      > ************ ********* ********* ********* *

      >

      > I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!

      >

      >

      > --

      Carol Moore in DC

      http://carolmoore. net/

      http://carolmoorere port.blogspot. com/

      http://youtube. com/carolmoore

      http://secession. net

      http://stopthewarno w.net

      http://whatwouldgan dhido.net

      http://radicalbutto ns.com



      NOTICE: Due to Presidential Executive Orders,

      the National Security Agency may have read this

      email without judicial or legislative oversight

      or warning, warrant, or notice. You have no

      recourse nor protection save to secede from the union.































      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Carol Moore/Secession.Net
      ... **Just because something is legal, doesn t mean it s smart. Like that kind of protest. I just don t think it reflects too well to have libertarians talking
      Message 2 of 27 , Aug 12, 2009
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        Chris Lawless wrote:
        > Carol I don't really know who you are directing that at.
        >
        > In NH it is 100% legal to have a gun in then open. (see the video of the police officer and William)
        >
        **Just because something is legal, doesn't mean it's smart. Like that
        kind of protest. I just don't think it reflects too well to have
        libertarians talking about it like it's a preferred form of protest.
        Great way to scare people away.

        > I won't speak for William but I know that many of the people that I was with at the 'rally' were also protesting President Bush in the past. In fact the Obama fans couldn't figure us out because we were anti Government healthcare, anti occupation of Iraq, expansion of Afghan war, anti Bush etc etc.
        **Just wondering if any brought their guns when Bush was speaking...
        Please feel free to ask if he shows with his gun again... :-)
        >
        >
        > --- On Wed, 8/12/09, Carol Moore/Secession.Net <contacts@...> wrote:
        >
        > From: Carol Moore/Secession.Net <contacts@...>
        > Subject: Re: [FSP] Pls Digg... CBS picked this up
        > To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
        > Date: Wednesday, August 12, 2009, 6:20 AM
        >
        >
        > And let's not forget "Gun toting to prove you are a "real man" can ruin
        >
        > a revolution."
        >
        >
        >
        > Not to mention where was he when Bush was stealing all our liberties,
        >
        > which Obama is merely expanding upon?? And where were the Republicans
        >
        > in producing a free market in health care the 6 years they controlled
        >
        > presidency, house and senate? Where's their united front on such an
        >
        > alternative now? Could it be: "Sold to the insurance industry that
        >
        > doesn't want competition, be it from lower priced individual plans
        >
        > (which would flourish if individuals got same tax break as business) and
        >
        > doesn't want cross-state competition, which currently is illegal. Just
        >
        > for starters...
        >
        >
        >
        > Chris Lawless wrote:
        >
        >> http://digg. com/politics/ Gun_Toting_ Man_Draws_ Scrutiny_ Outside_Obama_ Town_Hall
        >
        >
        >> and please forward
        >
        >
        >> ************ ********* ********* ********* *
        >
        >
        >> I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!
        >
        >
        >
        >> --
        >
        > Carol Moore in DC
        >
        > http://carolmoore. net/
        >
        > http://carolmoorere port.blogspot. com/
        >
        > http://youtube. com/carolmoore
        >
        > http://secession. net
        >
        > http://stopthewarno w.net
        >
        > http://whatwouldgan dhido.net
        >
        > http://radicalbutto ns.com
        >
        >
        >
        > NOTICE: Due to Presidential Executive Orders,
        >
        > the National Security Agency may have read this
        >
        > email without judicial or legislative oversight
        >
        > or warning, warrant, or notice. You have no
        >
        > recourse nor protection save to secede from the union.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
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        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >

        --
        Carol Moore in DC
        http://carolmoore.net/
        http://carolmoorereport.blogspot.com/
        http://youtube.com/carolmoore
        http://secession.net
        http://stopthewarnow.net
        http://whatwouldgandhido.net
        http://radicalbuttons.com

        NOTICE: Due to Presidential Executive Orders,
        the National Security Agency may have read this
        email without judicial or legislative oversight
        or warning, warrant, or notice. You have no
        recourse nor protection save to secede from the union.
      • Tim Condon
        If exercising a sacred human and Constitutional right will ruin a revolution, then the so-called revolution can go hang. As for the rest, I answer all
        Message 3 of 27 , Aug 12, 2009
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          If exercising a sacred human and Constitutional right will "ruin a
          revolution," then the so-called "revolution" can go hang. As for the rest, I
          answer all below. ---Tim Condon


          > And let's not forget "Gun toting to prove you are a "real man" can ruin a
          > revolution."
          >
          > Not to mention where was he when Bush was stealing all our liberties,
          > which Obama is merely expanding upon??
          >

          "He" was with the Free State Project, as are all patriots and libertarians
          with any brains.


          > And where were the Republicans in producing a free market in health care
          > the 6 years they controlled
          > presidency, house and senate?
          >

          They were AWOL. No one said the Republicans for the past 8 years were any
          better than the Democrats they were acting like. On the other hand, New
          Hampshire Republicans are a breed apart from the weak-kneed, ignorant
          "Republicans" who have so damaged the brand name over the past 8 years.

          Where's their united front on such an alternative now?

          Real Republicans support health care reform that gets the government
          entirely out of the health care marketplace. Faux Republicans (such as the
          president and Congress in DC for the past 8 years) don't do squat, and
          probably don't support a free market in health care anyway.


          Could it be: "Sold to the insurance industry that doesn't want
          competition, be it from lower priced individual plans (which would flourish
          if individuals got same tax break as business) and doesn't want cross-state
          competition, which currently is illegal. Just for starters...

          Irrelevant what the insurance companies want or don't want. You correctly
          point out above that they are using GOVERNMENT to prevent competition.
          Businesses do that all the time. That's why most businesses aren't in favor
          of free markets in their industry. Old story, much remarked upon by everyone
          from Ayn Rand to Milton Friedman to Murray Rothbard.

          As for real solutions, I'm afraid no one is going to find any from the silly
          anarchists. Oh well. Time to get back to work in actually changing New
          Hampshire into a Free State, rather than just whining about the existence of
          government in general as the anarchist do. ---Tim Condon

          >
          >
          >
          > Chris Lawless wrote:
          >
          > > http://digg. com/politics/ Gun_Toting_ Man_Draws_ Scrutiny_
          > Outside_Obama_ Town_Hall
          >
          > >
          >
          > > and please forward
          >
          > >
          >
          > > ************ ********* ********* ********* *
          >
          > >
          >
          > > I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice!
          > And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no
          > virtue!
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > --
          >
          > Carol Moore in DC
          >
          > http://carolmoore. net/
          >
          > http://carolmoorere port.blogspot. com/
          >
          > http://youtube. com/carolmoore
          >
          > http://secession. net
          >
          > http://stopthewarno w.net
          >
          > http://whatwouldgan dhido.net
          >
          > http://radicalbutto ns.com
          >
          >
          >
          > NOTICE: Due to Presidential Executive Orders,
          >
          > the National Security Agency may have read this
          >
          > email without judicial or legislative oversight
          >
          > or warning, warrant, or notice. You have no
          >
          > recourse nor protection save to secede from the union.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
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          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Randy Newell
          Chris:   I was the first person to Digg this (RRN) when I first saw it. ... From: Chris Lawless Subject: [FSP] Pls Digg... CBS picked this
          Message 4 of 27 , Aug 12, 2009
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            Chris:
             
            I was the first person to Digg this (RRN) when I first saw it.


            --- On Tue, 8/11/09, Chris Lawless <dreepa@...> wrote:


            From: Chris Lawless <dreepa@...>
            Subject: [FSP] Pls Digg... CBS picked this up
            To:
            Date: Tuesday, August 11, 2009, 10:24 PM


             



            http://digg. com/politics/ Gun_Toting_ Man_Draws_ Scrutiny_ Outside_Obama_ Town_Hall

            and please forward

            ************ ********* ********* ********* *

            I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



















            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Bill
            ... Are you saying that if one is in the vicinity of an elected official, one should willingly -- and uncharacteristically -- relinquish one s right to general
            Message 5 of 27 , Aug 13, 2009
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              Carol Moore/Secession.Net wrote:
              > **Just because something is legal, doesn't mean it's smart. Like that
              > kind of protest. I just don't think it reflects too well to have
              > libertarians talking about it like it's a preferred form of protest.
              > Great way to scare people away.

              Are you saying that if one is in the vicinity of an elected official,
              one should willingly -- and uncharacteristically -- relinquish one's
              right to general self defense? That didn't work out too well for Jim
              Brady -- but of course, he has a different solution.

              Will has a guaranteed right to do what he does. Stop thinking of it as a
              "protest," and start thinking of it as just a way of life in a free
              state. Frightened sheep simply aren't my problem. Certainly not at the
              cost of my vanishing liberty. Hell, if we can scare them out of NH, our
              job gets easier. Run, rabbit, run. Look out for that coyot-- Too late.
              Well, just know your government did what it could, and is proud of you...
              --

              --= My life, my property, my decisions. =--
              --= BikerBill=- ©¿©¬ =--
              --= allemanse.com=- =--
              -US Constitution (c)1791 All Rights Reserved-
            • GTriest
              I think Chris Matthews had a point though, many things are perfectly legal but simply inappropriate. The sign of course refers to blood and revolution, etc. I
              Message 6 of 27 , Aug 13, 2009
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                I think Chris Matthews had a point though, many things are perfectly legal but simply inappropriate.
                The sign of course refers to blood and revolution, etc.
                I think it might have been too close to other implications to have been appropriate. Sure a judgment call, but that is my opinion.

                If this was the president campaigning for an anti-gun law, then it might be appropriate.

                Gary T



                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Chris Lawless
                To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:36 PM
                Subject: Re: [FSP] Pls Digg... CBS picked this up


                Carol I don't really know who you are directing that at.

                In NH it is 100% legal to have a gun in then open. (see the video of the police officer and William)

                I won't speak for William but I know that many of the people that I was with at the 'rally' were also protesting President Bush in the past. In fact the Obama fans couldn't figure us out because we were anti Government healthcare, anti occupation of Iraq, expansion of Afghan war, anti Bush etc etc.

                --- On Wed, 8/12/09, Carol Moore/Secession.Net <contacts@...> wrote:

                From: Carol Moore/Secession.Net <contacts@...>
                Subject: Re: [FSP] Pls Digg... CBS picked this up
                To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Wednesday, August 12, 2009, 6:20 AM



                And let's not forget "Gun toting to prove you are a "real man" can ruin

                a revolution."

                Not to mention where was he when Bush was stealing all our liberties,

                which Obama is merely expanding upon?? And where were the Republicans

                in producing a free market in health care the 6 years they controlled

                presidency, house and senate? Where's their united front on such an

                alternative now? Could it be: "Sold to the insurance industry that

                doesn't want competition, be it from lower priced individual plans

                (which would flourish if individuals got same tax break as business) and

                doesn't want cross-state competition, which currently is illegal. Just

                for starters...

                Chris Lawless wrote:

                > http://digg. com/politics/ Gun_Toting_ Man_Draws_ Scrutiny_ Outside_Obama_ Town_Hall

                >

                > and please forward

                >

                > ************ ********* ********* ********* *

                >

                > I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!

                >

                >

                > --

                Carol Moore in DC

                http://carolmoore. net/

                http://carolmoorere port.blogspot. com/

                http://youtube. com/carolmoore

                http://secession. net

                http://stopthewarno w.net

                http://whatwouldgan dhido.net

                http://radicalbutto ns.com

                NOTICE: Due to Presidential Executive Orders,

                the National Security Agency may have read this

                email without judicial or legislative oversight

                or warning, warrant, or notice. You have no

                recourse nor protection save to secede from the union.











                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Jeremy J. Olson
                ... Indeed, some of us OC most everywhere we go. I don t want to see people arming themselves as a preferred form of protest, but as a way of life. -- Jeremy
                Message 7 of 27 , Aug 13, 2009
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                  At 2009-08-13T10:41:10-0400, <yahoo@...> wrote:

                  > Carol Moore/Secession.Net wrote:
                  > > **Just because something is legal, doesn't mean it's smart. Like that
                  > > kind of protest. I just don't think it reflects too well to have
                  > > libertarians talking about it like it's a preferred form of protest.
                  > > Great way to scare people away.
                  >
                  > Are you saying that if one is in the vicinity of an elected official,
                  > one should willingly -- and uncharacteristically -- relinquish one's
                  > right to general self defense? That didn't work out too well for Jim
                  > Brady -- but of course, he has a different solution.
                  >
                  > Will has a guaranteed right to do what he does. Stop thinking of it as a
                  > "protest," and start thinking of it as just a way of life in a free
                  > state. Frightened sheep simply aren't my problem. Certainly not at the
                  > cost of my vanishing liberty. Hell, if we can scare them out of NH, our
                  > job gets easier. Run, rabbit, run. Look out for that coyot-- Too late.
                  > Well, just know your government did what it could, and is proud of you...

                  Indeed, some of us OC most everywhere we go. I don't want to see people
                  arming themselves as a "preferred form of protest," but as a way of
                  life.

                  --
                  Jeremy J. Olson
                • Tim Condon
                  An excellent way of life that will, inevitably be legal only in the Free State of New Hampshire (while the rest of the country continues sliding down the
                  Message 8 of 27 , Aug 13, 2009
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                    An excellent way of life that will, inevitably be "legal" only in the Free
                    State of New Hampshire (while the rest of the country continues sliding down
                    the toilet into socialism and repeal of the 2nd Amendment). ---Tim Condon


                    On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 6:09 PM, Jeremy J. Olson <yahoogroups@...>wrote:

                    > At 2009-08-13T10:41:10-0400, <yahoo@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > > Carol Moore/Secession.Net wrote:
                    > > > **Just because something is legal, doesn't mean it's smart. Like that
                    > > > kind of protest. I just don't think it reflects too well to have
                    > > > libertarians talking about it like it's a preferred form of protest.
                    > > > Great way to scare people away.
                    > >
                    > > Are you saying that if one is in the vicinity of an elected official,
                    > > one should willingly -- and uncharacteristically -- relinquish one's
                    > > right to general self defense? That didn't work out too well for Jim
                    > > Brady -- but of course, he has a different solution.
                    > >
                    > > Will has a guaranteed right to do what he does. Stop thinking of it as a
                    > > "protest," and start thinking of it as just a way of life in a free
                    > > state. Frightened sheep simply aren't my problem. Certainly not at the
                    > > cost of my vanishing liberty. Hell, if we can scare them out of NH, our
                    > > job gets easier. Run, rabbit, run. Look out for that coyot-- Too late.
                    > > Well, just know your government did what it could, and is proud of you...
                    >
                    > Indeed, some of us OC most everywhere we go. I don't want to see people
                    > arming themselves as a "preferred form of protest," but as a way of
                    > life.
                    >
                    > --
                    > Jeremy J. Olson
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Carol Moore/Secession.Net
                    It would be perfectly legal for me to wear a big fake breasts prop to speak up for nudists rights on private property, but would it be appropriate at every
                    Message 9 of 27 , Aug 15, 2009
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                      It would be perfectly legal for me to wear a big
                      fake breasts prop to speak up for nudists rights
                      on private property, but would it be appropriate
                      at every libertarian protest??

                      GTriest wrote:
                      > I think Chris Matthews had a point though, many things are perfectly legal but simply inappropriate.
                      > The sign of course refers to blood and revolution, etc.
                      > I think it might have been too close to other implications to have been appropriate. Sure a judgment call, but that is my opinion.
                      >
                      > If this was the president campaigning for an anti-gun law, then it might be appropriate.
                      >
                      > Gary T
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: Chris Lawless
                      > To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:36 PM
                      > Subject: Re: [FSP] Pls Digg... CBS picked this up
                      >
                      >
                      > Carol I don't really know who you are directing that at.
                      >
                      > In NH it is 100% legal to have a gun in then open. (see the video of the police officer and William)
                      >
                      > I won't speak for William but I know that many of the people that I was with at the 'rally' were also protesting President Bush in the past. In fact the Obama fans couldn't figure us out because we were anti Government healthcare, anti occupation of Iraq, expansion of Afghan war, anti Bush etc etc.
                      >
                      > --- On Wed, 8/12/09, Carol Moore/Secession.Net <contacts@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > From: Carol Moore/Secession.Net <contacts@...>
                      > Subject: Re: [FSP] Pls Digg... CBS picked this up
                      > To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                      > Date: Wednesday, August 12, 2009, 6:20 AM
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > And let's not forget "Gun toting to prove you are a "real man" can ruin
                      >
                      > a revolution."
                      >
                      > Not to mention where was he when Bush was stealing all our liberties,
                      >
                      > which Obama is merely expanding upon?? And where were the Republicans
                      >
                      > in producing a free market in health care the 6 years they controlled
                      >
                      > presidency, house and senate? Where's their united front on such an
                      >
                      > alternative now? Could it be: "Sold to the insurance industry that
                      >
                      > doesn't want competition, be it from lower priced individual plans
                      >
                      > (which would flourish if individuals got same tax break as business) and
                      >
                      > doesn't want cross-state competition, which currently is illegal. Just
                      >
                      > for starters...
                      >
                      > Chris Lawless wrote:
                      >
                      > > http://digg. com/politics/ Gun_Toting_ Man_Draws_ Scrutiny_ Outside_Obama_ Town_Hall
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > and please forward
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > ************ ********* ********* ********* *
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > --
                      >
                      > Carol Moore in DC
                      >
                      > http://carolmoore. net/
                      >
                      > http://carolmoorere port.blogspot. com/
                      >
                      > http://youtube. com/carolmoore
                      >
                      > http://secession. net
                      >
                      > http://stopthewarno w.net
                      >
                      > http://whatwouldgan dhido.net
                      >
                      > http://radicalbutto ns.com
                      >
                      > NOTICE: Due to Presidential Executive Orders,
                      >
                      > the National Security Agency may have read this
                      >
                      > email without judicial or legislative oversight
                      >
                      > or warning, warrant, or notice. You have no
                      >
                      > recourse nor protection save to secede from the union.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >

                      --
                      Carol Moore in DC
                      http://carolmoore.net/
                      http://carolmoorereport.blogspot.com/
                      http://youtube.com/carolmoore
                      http://secession.net
                      http://stopthewarnow.net
                      http://whatwouldgandhido.net
                      http://radicalbuttons.com

                      NOTICE: Due to Presidential Executive Orders,
                      the National Security Agency may have read this
                      email without judicial or legislative oversight
                      or warning, warrant, or notice. You have no
                      recourse nor protection save to secede from the union.
                    • Tim Condon
                      So long as your activity doesn t aggress against anyone else or their co-equal right to do what they want without aggressing against you, yes. Appropriateness
                      Message 10 of 27 , Aug 15, 2009
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                        So long as your activity doesn't aggress against anyone else or their
                        co-equal right to do what they want without aggressing against you, yes.
                        Appropriateness isn't the measure of whether other people disapprove, or are
                        made uncomfortable. And it is *never* inappropriate to openly exercise a
                        specific right that is guaranteed in the U.S. Constitution. In fact, it is
                        absolutely necessary that people exercise such rights openly; such actions
                        should be encouraged, or such rights will come to be frowned upon, and even
                        judged "inappropriate" in many---and eventually all---circumstances. Exhibit
                        #1: The Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms, which William Kostic
                        was peaceably and entirely legitimately exercising. I wish I had been
                        present to support him by keeping and bearing my own openly-carried
                        side-arm, the right to which is guaranteed by the above-said Second
                        Amendment. ---Tim Condon (who is a lawyer)


                        On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 11:55 AM, Carol Moore/Secession.Net <
                        contacts@...> wrote:

                        > It would be perfectly legal for me to wear a big
                        > fake breasts prop to speak up for nudists rights
                        > on private property, but would it be appropriate
                        > at every libertarian protest??
                        >
                        > GTriest wrote:
                        > > I think Chris Matthews had a point though, many things are perfectly
                        > legal but simply inappropriate.
                        > > The sign of course refers to blood and revolution, etc.
                        > > I think it might have been too close to other implications to have been
                        > appropriate. Sure a judgment call, but that is my opinion.
                        > >
                        > > If this was the president campaigning for an anti-gun law, then it might
                        > be appropriate.
                        > >
                        > > Gary T
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > ----- Original Message -----
                        > > From: Chris Lawless
                        > > To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                        > > Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:36 PM
                        > > Subject: Re: [FSP] Pls Digg... CBS picked this up
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Carol I don't really know who you are directing that at.
                        > >
                        > > In NH it is 100% legal to have a gun in then open. (see the video of
                        > the police officer and William)
                        > >
                        > > I won't speak for William but I know that many of the people that I was
                        > with at the 'rally' were also protesting President Bush in the past. In
                        > fact the Obama fans couldn't figure us out because we were anti Government
                        > healthcare, anti occupation of Iraq, expansion of Afghan war, anti Bush etc
                        > etc.
                        > >
                        > > --- On Wed, 8/12/09, Carol Moore/Secession.Net <contacts@...>
                        > wrote:
                        > >
                        > > From: Carol Moore/Secession.Net <contacts@...>
                        > > Subject: Re: [FSP] Pls Digg... CBS picked this up
                        > > To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                        > > Date: Wednesday, August 12, 2009, 6:20 AM
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > And let's not forget "Gun toting to prove you are a "real man" can ruin
                        > >
                        > > a revolution."
                        > >
                        > > Not to mention where was he when Bush was stealing all our liberties,
                        > >
                        > > which Obama is merely expanding upon?? And where were the Republicans
                        > >
                        > > in producing a free market in health care the 6 years they controlled
                        > >
                        > > presidency, house and senate? Where's their united front on such an
                        > >
                        > > alternative now? Could it be: "Sold to the insurance industry that
                        > >
                        > > doesn't want competition, be it from lower priced individual plans
                        > >
                        > > (which would flourish if individuals got same tax break as business)
                        > and
                        > >
                        > > doesn't want cross-state competition, which currently is illegal. Just
                        > >
                        > > for starters...
                        > >
                        > > Chris Lawless wrote:
                        > >
                        > > > http://digg. com/politics/ Gun_Toting_ Man_Draws_ Scrutiny_
                        > Outside_Obama_ Town_Hall
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > > and please forward
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > > ************ ********* ********* ********* *
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > > I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no
                        > vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice
                        > is no virtue!
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > > --
                        > >
                        > > Carol Moore in DC
                        > >
                        > > http://carolmoore. net/
                        > >
                        > > http://carolmoorere port.blogspot. com/
                        > >
                        > > http://youtube. com/carolmoore
                        > >
                        > > http://secession. net
                        > >
                        > > http://stopthewarno w.net
                        > >
                        > > http://whatwouldgan dhido.net
                        > >
                        > > http://radicalbutto ns.com
                        > >
                        > > NOTICE: Due to Presidential Executive Orders,
                        > >
                        > > the National Security Agency may have read this
                        > >
                        > > email without judicial or legislative oversight
                        > >
                        > > or warning, warrant, or notice. You have no
                        > >
                        > > recourse nor protection save to secede from the union.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > ------------------------------------
                        > >
                        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        > --
                        > Carol Moore in DC
                        > http://carolmoore.net/
                        > http://carolmoorereport.blogspot.com/
                        > http://youtube.com/carolmoore
                        > http://secession.net
                        > http://stopthewarnow.net
                        > http://whatwouldgandhido.net
                        > http://radicalbuttons.com
                        >
                        > NOTICE: Due to Presidential Executive Orders,
                        > the National Security Agency may have read this
                        > email without judicial or legislative oversight
                        > or warning, warrant, or notice. You have no
                        > recourse nor protection save to secede from the union.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • GaryT
                        Well, don t take this personally, but I think that is extremist thinking and can lead to foolish behavior. Once again, as I said before, there are many things
                        Message 11 of 27 , Aug 17, 2009
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Well, don't take this personally, but I think that is extremist thinking and can lead to foolish behavior.

                          Once again, as I said before, there are many things you may have legal right to do, but may be completely socially inappropriate nonetheless.
                          You may invited to a vegetarian dinner function, yet choose to slaughter a rabbit and eat it raw in front of all there.
                          Legal? Yes. Appropriate? No. Unless you were affirmatively trying to offend.

                          You might take a dump on public land in front of a 7 year old child. Legal? Probably.
                          Acceptable under social civililty norms? Not at all.

                          You might stand outside a restaurant on a public sidewalk, and proceed to cut yourself and bleed on the sidewalk in front of the patrons. Legal? Yes. Appropriate? No.

                          The list is endless.

                          The point being, the level of legality is not the same level for social consideration or politeness, or common decency.
                          The fact that you can do something, does not mean you should do it.

                          Gary T


                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Tim Condon
                          To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 6:01 PM
                          Subject: Re: [FSP] Pls Digg... CBS picked this up


                          So long as your activity doesn't aggress against anyone else or their
                          co-equal right to do what they want without aggressing against you, yes.
                          Appropriateness isn't the measure of whether other people disapprove, or are
                          made uncomfortable. And it is *never* inappropriate to openly exercise a
                          specific right that is guaranteed in the U.S. Constitution. In fact, it is
                          absolutely necessary that people exercise such rights openly; such actions
                          should be encouraged, or such rights will come to be frowned upon, and even
                          judged "inappropriate" in many---and eventually all---circumstances. Exhibit
                          #1: The Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms, which William Kostic
                          was peaceably and entirely legitimately exercising. I wish I had been
                          present to support him by keeping and bearing my own openly-carried
                          side-arm, the right to which is guaranteed by the above-said Second
                          Amendment. ---Tim Condon (who is a lawyer)

                          On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 11:55 AM, Carol Moore/Secession.Net <
                          contacts@...> wrote:

                          > It would be perfectly legal for me to wear a big
                          > fake breasts prop to speak up for nudists rights
                          > on private property, but would it be appropriate
                          > at every libertarian protest??
                          >
                          > GTriest wrote:
                          > > I think Chris Matthews had a point though, many things are perfectly
                          > legal but simply inappropriate.
                          > > The sign of course refers to blood and revolution, etc.
                          > > I think it might have been too close to other implications to have been
                          > appropriate. Sure a judgment call, but that is my opinion.
                          > >
                          > > If this was the president campaigning for an anti-gun law, then it might
                          > be appropriate.
                          > >
                          > > Gary T
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > ----- Original Message -----
                          > > From: Chris Lawless
                          > > To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                          > > Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:36 PM
                          > > Subject: Re: [FSP] Pls Digg... CBS picked this up
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Carol I don't really know who you are directing that at.
                          > >
                          > > In NH it is 100% legal to have a gun in then open. (see the video of
                          > the police officer and William)
                          > >
                          > > I won't speak for William but I know that many of the people that I was
                          > with at the 'rally' were also protesting President Bush in the past. In
                          > fact the Obama fans couldn't figure us out because we were anti Government
                          > healthcare, anti occupation of Iraq, expansion of Afghan war, anti Bush etc
                          > etc.
                          > >
                          > > --- On Wed, 8/12/09, Carol Moore/Secession.Net <contacts@...>
                          > wrote:
                          > >
                          > > From: Carol Moore/Secession.Net <contacts@...>
                          > > Subject: Re: [FSP] Pls Digg... CBS picked this up
                          > > To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                          > > Date: Wednesday, August 12, 2009, 6:20 AM
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > And let's not forget "Gun toting to prove you are a "real man" can ruin
                          > >
                          > > a revolution."
                          > >
                          > > Not to mention where was he when Bush was stealing all our liberties,
                          > >
                          > > which Obama is merely expanding upon?? And where were the Republicans
                          > >
                          > > in producing a free market in health care the 6 years they controlled
                          > >
                          > > presidency, house and senate? Where's their united front on such an
                          > >
                          > > alternative now? Could it be: "Sold to the insurance industry that
                          > >
                          > > doesn't want competition, be it from lower priced individual plans
                          > >
                          > > (which would flourish if individuals got same tax break as business)
                          > and
                          > >
                          > > doesn't want cross-state competition, which currently is illegal. Just
                          > >
                          > > for starters...
                          > >
                          > > Chris Lawless wrote:
                          > >
                          > > > http://digg. com/politics/ Gun_Toting_ Man_Draws_ Scrutiny_
                          > Outside_Obama_ Town_Hall
                          > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > > > and please forward
                          > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > > > ************ ********* ********* ********* *
                          > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > > > I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no
                          > vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice
                          > is no virtue!
                          > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > > > --
                          > >
                          > > Carol Moore in DC
                          > >
                          > > http://carolmoore. net/
                          > >
                          > > http://carolmoorere port.blogspot. com/
                          > >
                          > > http://youtube. com/carolmoore
                          > >
                          > > http://secession. net
                          > >
                          > > http://stopthewarno w.net
                          > >
                          > > http://whatwouldgan dhido.net
                          > >
                          > > http://radicalbutto ns.com
                          > >
                          > > NOTICE: Due to Presidential Executive Orders,
                          > >
                          > > the National Security Agency may have read this
                          > >
                          > > email without judicial or legislative oversight
                          > >
                          > > or warning, warrant, or notice. You have no
                          > >
                          > > recourse nor protection save to secede from the union.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > ------------------------------------
                          > >
                          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          > --
                          > Carol Moore in DC
                          > http://carolmoore.net/
                          > http://carolmoorereport.blogspot.com/
                          > http://youtube.com/carolmoore
                          > http://secession.net
                          > http://stopthewarnow.net
                          > http://whatwouldgandhido.net
                          > http://radicalbuttons.com
                          >
                          > NOTICE: Due to Presidential Executive Orders,
                          > the National Security Agency may have read this
                          > email without judicial or legislative oversight
                          > or warning, warrant, or notice. You have no
                          > recourse nor protection save to secede from the union.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ------------------------------------
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Tim Condon
                          No offense taken, Gary. However, the arguments you make below sound an awful lot like the arguments liberals and other statists use all the time to continually
                          Message 12 of 27 , Aug 17, 2009
                          • 0 Attachment
                            No offense taken, Gary. However, the arguments you make below sound an awful
                            lot like the arguments liberals and other statists use all the time to
                            continually encroach upon individual liberties. They think guns should be
                            outlawed because if guns were legal "people would be shooting each other on
                            the street every day." We must have zoning because "if we don't have zoning
                            they'll put up a pig farm (or chemical factory; those are the two favorites)
                            right next door to your house!" And we must have Real ID because terrorists
                            will run rampant throughout America and kill everyone if we don't have
                            "papers" that everyone must carry.
                            You pick out some examples below that are certainly designed to elicit the
                            same response. But we're not talking about doing any of those things. We're
                            talking about a specific, inalienable, Constitutionally mandated right, i.e.
                            the right to keep and "bear" arms. I don't particularly care if every other
                            person in America (in addition to Chris Matthews) thinks was "inappropriate"
                            to openly carry a sidearm at the Portsmouth protest. I repeat: "It is
                            *never* inappropriate to openly exercise a specific right that is guaranteed
                            in the U.S. Constitution." So although there may be all kinds of people who
                            think exercising that particular right, at that particular time, at that
                            particular venue was "in poor taste," or "silly," or "scary," or
                            whatever....that's too bad. This is the Free State. We take our natural and
                            Constitutional rights seriously, and there's never a "wrong" time to
                            exercise any of them. ---Tim Condon






                            On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 3:14 AM, GaryT <garyonthenet@...> wrote:

                            > Well, don't take this personally, but I think that is extremist thinking
                            > and can lead to foolish behavior.
                            >
                            > Once again, as I said before, there are many things you may have legal
                            > right to do, but may be completely socially inappropriate nonetheless.
                            > You may invited to a vegetarian dinner function, yet choose to slaughter a
                            > rabbit and eat it raw in front of all there.
                            > Legal? Yes. Appropriate? No. Unless you were affirmatively trying to
                            > offend.
                            >
                            > You might take a dump on public land in front of a 7 year old child. Legal?
                            > Probably.
                            > Acceptable under social civililty norms? Not at all.
                            >
                            > You might stand outside a restaurant on a public sidewalk, and proceed to
                            > cut yourself and bleed on the sidewalk in front of the patrons. Legal? Yes.
                            > Appropriate? No.
                            >
                            > The list is endless.
                            >
                            > The point being, the level of legality is not the same level for social
                            > consideration or politeness, or common decency.
                            > The fact that you can do something, does not mean you should do it.
                            >
                            > Gary T
                            >
                            >
                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            > From: Tim Condon
                            > To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                            > Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 6:01 PM
                            > Subject: Re: [FSP] Pls Digg... CBS picked this up
                            >
                            >
                            > So long as your activity doesn't aggress against anyone else or their
                            > co-equal right to do what they want without aggressing against you, yes.
                            > Appropriateness isn't the measure of whether other people disapprove, or
                            > are
                            > made uncomfortable. And it is *never* inappropriate to openly exercise a
                            > specific right that is guaranteed in the U.S. Constitution. In fact, it is
                            > absolutely necessary that people exercise such rights openly; such actions
                            > should be encouraged, or such rights will come to be frowned upon, and
                            > even
                            > judged "inappropriate" in many---and eventually all---circumstances.
                            > Exhibit
                            > #1: The Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms, which William Kostic
                            > was peaceably and entirely legitimately exercising. I wish I had been
                            > present to support him by keeping and bearing my own openly-carried
                            > side-arm, the right to which is guaranteed by the above-said Second
                            > Amendment. ---Tim Condon (who is a lawyer)
                            >
                            > On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 11:55 AM, Carol Moore/Secession.Net <
                            > contacts@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > > It would be perfectly legal for me to wear a big
                            > > fake breasts prop to speak up for nudists rights
                            > > on private property, but would it be appropriate
                            > > at every libertarian protest??
                            > >
                            > > GTriest wrote:
                            > > > I think Chris Matthews had a point though, many things are perfectly
                            > > legal but simply inappropriate.
                            > > > The sign of course refers to blood and revolution, etc.
                            > > > I think it might have been too close to other implications to have
                            > been
                            > > appropriate. Sure a judgment call, but that is my opinion.
                            > > >
                            > > > If this was the president campaigning for an anti-gun law, then it
                            > might
                            > > be appropriate.
                            > > >
                            > > > Gary T
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > ----- Original Message -----
                            > > > From: Chris Lawless
                            > > > To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                            > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:36 PM
                            > > > Subject: Re: [FSP] Pls Digg... CBS picked this up
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > Carol I don't really know who you are directing that at.
                            > > >
                            > > > In NH it is 100% legal to have a gun in then open. (see the video of
                            > > the police officer and William)
                            > > >
                            > > > I won't speak for William but I know that many of the people that I
                            > was
                            > > with at the 'rally' were also protesting President Bush in the past. In
                            > > fact the Obama fans couldn't figure us out because we were anti
                            > Government
                            > > healthcare, anti occupation of Iraq, expansion of Afghan war, anti Bush
                            > etc
                            > > etc.
                            > > >
                            > > > --- On Wed, 8/12/09, Carol Moore/Secession.Net <
                            > contacts@...>
                            > > wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > From: Carol Moore/Secession.Net <contacts@...>
                            > > > Subject: Re: [FSP] Pls Digg... CBS picked this up
                            > > > To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                            > > > Date: Wednesday, August 12, 2009, 6:20 AM
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > And let's not forget "Gun toting to prove you are a "real man" can
                            > ruin
                            > > >
                            > > > a revolution."
                            > > >
                            > > > Not to mention where was he when Bush was stealing all our liberties,
                            > > >
                            > > > which Obama is merely expanding upon?? And where were the Republicans
                            > > >
                            > > > in producing a free market in health care the 6 years they controlled
                            > > >
                            > > > presidency, house and senate? Where's their united front on such an
                            > > >
                            > > > alternative now? Could it be: "Sold to the insurance industry that
                            > > >
                            > > > doesn't want competition, be it from lower priced individual plans
                            > > >
                            > > > (which would flourish if individuals got same tax break as business)
                            > > and
                            > > >
                            > > > doesn't want cross-state competition, which currently is illegal. Just
                            > > >
                            > > > for starters...
                            > > >
                            > > > Chris Lawless wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > > http://digg. com/politics/ Gun_Toting_ Man_Draws_ Scrutiny_
                            > > Outside_Obama_ Town_Hall
                            > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > > and please forward
                            > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > > ************ ********* ********* ********* *
                            > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > > I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no
                            > > vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of
                            > justice
                            > > is no virtue!
                            > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > > --
                            > > >
                            > > > Carol Moore in DC
                            > > >
                            > > > http://carolmoore. net/
                            > > >
                            > > > http://carolmoorere port.blogspot. com/
                            > > >
                            > > > http://youtube. com/carolmoore
                            > > >
                            > > > http://secession. net
                            > > >
                            > > > http://stopthewarno w.net
                            > > >
                            > > > http://whatwouldgan dhido.net
                            > > >
                            > > > http://radicalbutto ns.com
                            > > >
                            > > > NOTICE: Due to Presidential Executive Orders,
                            > > >
                            > > > the National Security Agency may have read this
                            > > >
                            > > > email without judicial or legislative oversight
                            > > >
                            > > > or warning, warrant, or notice. You have no
                            > > >
                            > > > recourse nor protection save to secede from the union.
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > ------------------------------------
                            > > >
                            > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > > --
                            > > Carol Moore in DC
                            > > http://carolmoore.net/
                            > > http://carolmoorereport.blogspot.com/
                            > > http://youtube.com/carolmoore
                            > > http://secession.net
                            > > http://stopthewarnow.net
                            > > http://whatwouldgandhido.net
                            > > http://radicalbuttons.com
                            > >
                            > > NOTICE: Due to Presidential Executive Orders,
                            > > the National Security Agency may have read this
                            > > email without judicial or legislative oversight
                            > > or warning, warrant, or notice. You have no
                            > > recourse nor protection save to secede from the union.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > ------------------------------------
                            > >
                            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Lady Liberty
                            I m falling on the side of the angels, here. In case it s not obvious, Tim, that s you. :-) Here s a brief excerpt from my commentary this week which talks
                            Message 13 of 27 , Aug 17, 2009
                            • 0 Attachment
                              I'm falling on the side of the angels, here. In case it's not obvious,
                              Tim, that's you. :-)

                              Here's a brief excerpt from my commentary this week which talks about
                              the Pittsburgh gym shooter and the New Hampshire free man:

                              "These two scenarios occurring two weeks apart couldn't be much more
                              different. In the first, a man with a gun committed murder. In the
                              second, a man with a gun did...nothing. And yet both have engendered
                              horror from anti-gun advocates. To me, this proves that some people
                              are far more fearful of firearms than they are of the person wielding
                              them. Given the end result of both these incidents, I think there's
                              ample evidence instead that they might want to place blame where it
                              goes rather than on a tool that can be used, misused, or, most often,
                              not used at all."

                              Lady Liberty


                              On Aug 17, 2009, at 10:27 PM, Tim Condon wrote:

                              > No offense taken, Gary. However, the arguments you make below sound
                              > an awful
                              > lot like the arguments liberals and other statists use all the time to
                              > continually encroach upon individual liberties. They think guns
                              > should be
                              > outlawed because if guns were legal "people would be shooting each
                              > other on
                              > the street every day." We must have zoning because "if we don't have
                              > zoning
                              > they'll put up a pig farm (or chemical factory; those are the two
                              > favorites)
                              > right next door to your house!" And we must have Real ID because
                              > terrorists
                              > will run rampant throughout America and kill everyone if we don't have
                              > "papers" that everyone must carry.
                              > You pick out some examples below that are certainly designed to
                              > elicit the
                              > same response. But we're not talking about doing any of those
                              > things. We're
                              > talking about a specific, inalienable, Constitutionally mandated
                              > right, i.e.
                              > the right to keep and "bear" arms. I don't particularly care if
                              > every other
                              > person in America (in addition to Chris Matthews) thinks was
                              > "inappropriate"
                              > to openly carry a sidearm at the Portsmouth protest. I repeat: "It is
                              > *never* inappropriate to openly exercise a specific right that is
                              > guaranteed
                              > in the U.S. Constitution." So although there may be all kinds of
                              > people who
                              > think exercising that particular right, at that particular time, at
                              > that
                              > particular venue was "in poor taste," or "silly," or "scary," or
                              > whatever....that's too bad. This is the Free State. We take our
                              > natural and
                              > Constitutional rights seriously, and there's never a "wrong" time to
                              > exercise any of them. ---Tim Condon
                              >
                              > On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 3:14 AM, GaryT <garyonthenet@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > > Well, don't take this personally, but I think that is extremist
                              > thinking
                              > > and can lead to foolish behavior.
                              > >
                              > > Once again, as I said before, there are many things you may have
                              > legal
                              > > right to do, but may be completely socially inappropriate
                              > nonetheless.
                              > > You may invited to a vegetarian dinner function, yet choose to
                              > slaughter a
                              > > rabbit and eat it raw in front of all there.
                              > > Legal? Yes. Appropriate? No. Unless you were affirmatively trying to
                              > > offend.
                              > >
                              > > You might take a dump on public land in front of a 7 year old
                              > child. Legal?
                              > > Probably.
                              > > Acceptable under social civililty norms? Not at all.
                              > >
                              > > You might stand outside a restaurant on a public sidewalk, and
                              > proceed to
                              > > cut yourself and bleed on the sidewalk in front of the patrons.
                              > Legal? Yes.
                              > > Appropriate? No.
                              > >
                              > > The list is endless.
                              > >
                              > > The point being, the level of legality is not the same level for
                              > social
                              > > consideration or politeness, or common decency.
                              > > The fact that you can do something, does not mean you should do it.
                              > >
                              > > Gary T
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > ----- Original Message -----
                              > > From: Tim Condon
                              > > To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                              > > Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 6:01 PM
                              > > Subject: Re: [FSP] Pls Digg... CBS picked this up
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > So long as your activity doesn't aggress against anyone else or
                              > their
                              > > co-equal right to do what they want without aggressing against
                              > you, yes.
                              > > Appropriateness isn't the measure of whether other people
                              > disapprove, or
                              > > are
                              > > made uncomfortable. And it is *never* inappropriate to openly
                              > exercise a
                              > > specific right that is guaranteed in the U.S. Constitution. In
                              > fact, it is
                              > > absolutely necessary that people exercise such rights openly; such
                              > actions
                              > > should be encouraged, or such rights will come to be frowned upon,
                              > and
                              > > even
                              > > judged "inappropriate" in many---and eventually all---circumstances.
                              > > Exhibit
                              > > #1: The Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms, which
                              > William Kostic
                              > > was peaceably and entirely legitimately exercising. I wish I had
                              > been
                              > > present to support him by keeping and bearing my own openly-carried
                              > > side-arm, the right to which is guaranteed by the above-said Second
                              > > Amendment. ---Tim Condon (who is a lawyer)
                              > >
                              > > On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 11:55 AM, Carol Moore/Secession.Net <
                              > > contacts@...> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > > It would be perfectly legal for me to wear a big
                              > > > fake breasts prop to speak up for nudists rights
                              > > > on private property, but would it be appropriate
                              > > > at every libertarian protest??
                              > > >
                              > > > GTriest wrote:
                              > > > > I think Chris Matthews had a point though, many things are
                              > perfectly
                              > > > legal but simply inappropriate.
                              > > > > The sign of course refers to blood and revolution, etc.
                              > > > > I think it might have been too close to other implications to
                              > have
                              > > been
                              > > > appropriate. Sure a judgment call, but that is my opinion.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > If this was the president campaigning for an anti-gun law,
                              > then it
                              > > might
                              > > > be appropriate.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Gary T
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                              > > > > From: Chris Lawless
                              > > > > To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                              > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:36 PM
                              > > > > Subject: Re: [FSP] Pls Digg... CBS picked this up
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Carol I don't really know who you are directing that at.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > In NH it is 100% legal to have a gun in then open. (see the
                              > video of
                              > > > the police officer and William)
                              > > > >
                              > > > > I won't speak for William but I know that many of the people
                              > that I
                              > > was
                              > > > with at the 'rally' were also protesting President Bush in the
                              > past. In
                              > > > fact the Obama fans couldn't figure us out because we were anti
                              > > Government
                              > > > healthcare, anti occupation of Iraq, expansion of Afghan war,
                              > anti Bush
                              > > etc
                              > > > etc.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > --- On Wed, 8/12/09, Carol Moore/Secession.Net <
                              > > contacts@...>
                              > > > wrote:
                              > > > >
                              > > > > From: Carol Moore/Secession.Net <contacts@...>
                              > > > > Subject: Re: [FSP] Pls Digg... CBS picked this up
                              > > > > To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                              > > > > Date: Wednesday, August 12, 2009, 6:20 AM
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > And let's not forget "Gun toting to prove you are a "real man"
                              > can
                              > > ruin
                              > > > >
                              > > > > a revolution."
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Not to mention where was he when Bush was stealing all our
                              > liberties,
                              > > > >
                              > > > > which Obama is merely expanding upon?? And where were the
                              > Republicans
                              > > > >
                              > > > > in producing a free market in health care the 6 years they
                              > controlled
                              > > > >
                              > > > > presidency, house and senate? Where's their united front on
                              > such an
                              > > > >
                              > > > > alternative now? Could it be: "Sold to the insurance industry
                              > that
                              > > > >
                              > > > > doesn't want competition, be it from lower priced individual
                              > plans
                              > > > >
                              > > > > (which would flourish if individuals got same tax break as
                              > business)
                              > > > and
                              > > > >
                              > > > > doesn't want cross-state competition, which currently is
                              > illegal. Just
                              > > > >
                              > > > > for starters...
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Chris Lawless wrote:
                              > > > >
                              > > > > > http://digg. com/politics/ Gun_Toting_ Man_Draws_ Scrutiny_
                              > > > Outside_Obama_ Town_Hall
                              > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > > and please forward
                              > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > > ************ ********* ********* ********* *
                              > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > > I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty
                              > is no
                              > > > vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of
                              > > justice
                              > > > is no virtue!
                              > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > > --
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Carol Moore in DC
                              > > > >
                              > > > > http://carolmoore. net/
                              > > > >
                              > > > > http://carolmoorere port.blogspot. com/
                              > > > >
                              > > > > http://youtube. com/carolmoore
                              > > > >
                              > > > > http://secession. net
                              > > > >
                              > > > > http://stopthewarno w.net
                              > > > >
                              > > > > http://whatwouldgan dhido.net
                              > > > >
                              > > > > http://radicalbutto ns.com
                              > > > >
                              > > > > NOTICE: Due to Presidential Executive Orders,
                              > > > >
                              > > > > the National Security Agency may have read this
                              > > > >
                              > > > > email without judicial or legislative oversight
                              > > > >
                              > > > > or warning, warrant, or notice. You have no
                              > > > >
                              > > > > recourse nor protection save to secede from the union.
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > ------------------------------------
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > --
                              > > > Carol Moore in DC
                              > > > http://carolmoore.net/
                              > > > http://carolmoorereport.blogspot.com/
                              > > > http://youtube.com/carolmoore
                              > > > http://secession.net
                              > > > http://stopthewarnow.net
                              > > > http://whatwouldgandhido.net
                              > > > http://radicalbuttons.com
                              > > >
                              > > > NOTICE: Due to Presidential Executive Orders,
                              > > > the National Security Agency may have read this
                              > > > email without judicial or legislative oversight
                              > > > or warning, warrant, or notice. You have no
                              > > > recourse nor protection save to secede from the union.
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > ------------------------------------
                              > > >
                              > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > ------------------------------------
                              > >
                              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >
                              >



                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Tim Condon
                              Thank you, Ma am. If only someone in the gym other than the mentally deranged killer had had a sidearm...it might have been only him who got killed. As it was,
                              Message 14 of 27 , Aug 18, 2009
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Thank you, Ma'am.
                                If only someone in the gym other than the mentally deranged killer had had a
                                sidearm...it might have been only him who got killed. As it was, no one had
                                the means to put a quick stop to him. One more example and reason why "more
                                guns means less crime." <http://www.aei.org/book/605> ---Tim Condon


                                On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 10:56 PM, Lady Liberty <ladylibrty@...>wrote:

                                > I'm falling on the side of the angels, here. In case it's not obvious,
                                > Tim, that's you. :-)
                                >
                                > Here's a brief excerpt from my commentary this week which talks about
                                > the Pittsburgh gym shooter and the New Hampshire free man:
                                >
                                > "These two scenarios occurring two weeks apart couldn't be much more
                                > different. In the first, a man with a gun committed murder. In the
                                > second, a man with a gun did...nothing. And yet both have engendered
                                > horror from anti-gun advocates. To me, this proves that some people
                                > are far more fearful of firearms than they are of the person wielding
                                > them. Given the end result of both these incidents, I think there's
                                > ample evidence instead that they might want to place blame where it
                                > goes rather than on a tool that can be used, misused, or, most often,
                                > not used at all."
                                >
                                > Lady Liberty
                                >
                                >
                                > On Aug 17, 2009, at 10:27 PM, Tim Condon wrote:
                                >
                                > > No offense taken, Gary. However, the arguments you make below sound
                                > > an awful
                                > > lot like the arguments liberals and other statists use all the time to
                                > > continually encroach upon individual liberties. They think guns
                                > > should be
                                > > outlawed because if guns were legal "people would be shooting each
                                > > other on
                                > > the street every day." We must have zoning because "if we don't have
                                > > zoning
                                > > they'll put up a pig farm (or chemical factory; those are the two
                                > > favorites)
                                > > right next door to your house!" And we must have Real ID because
                                > > terrorists
                                > > will run rampant throughout America and kill everyone if we don't have
                                > > "papers" that everyone must carry.
                                > > You pick out some examples below that are certainly designed to
                                > > elicit the
                                > > same response. But we're not talking about doing any of those
                                > > things. We're
                                > > talking about a specific, inalienable, Constitutionally mandated
                                > > right, i.e.
                                > > the right to keep and "bear" arms. I don't particularly care if
                                > > every other
                                > > person in America (in addition to Chris Matthews) thinks was
                                > > "inappropriate"
                                > > to openly carry a sidearm at the Portsmouth protest. I repeat: "It is
                                > > *never* inappropriate to openly exercise a specific right that is
                                > > guaranteed
                                > > in the U.S. Constitution." So although there may be all kinds of
                                > > people who
                                > > think exercising that particular right, at that particular time, at
                                > > that
                                > > particular venue was "in poor taste," or "silly," or "scary," or
                                > > whatever....that's too bad. This is the Free State. We take our
                                > > natural and
                                > > Constitutional rights seriously, and there's never a "wrong" time to
                                > > exercise any of them. ---Tim Condon
                                > >
                                > > On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 3:14 AM, GaryT <garyonthenet@...> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > > Well, don't take this personally, but I think that is extremist
                                > > thinking
                                > > > and can lead to foolish behavior.
                                > > >
                                > > > Once again, as I said before, there are many things you may have
                                > > legal
                                > > > right to do, but may be completely socially inappropriate
                                > > nonetheless.
                                > > > You may invited to a vegetarian dinner function, yet choose to
                                > > slaughter a
                                > > > rabbit and eat it raw in front of all there.
                                > > > Legal? Yes. Appropriate? No. Unless you were affirmatively trying to
                                > > > offend.
                                > > >
                                > > > You might take a dump on public land in front of a 7 year old
                                > > child. Legal?
                                > > > Probably.
                                > > > Acceptable under social civililty norms? Not at all.
                                > > >
                                > > > You might stand outside a restaurant on a public sidewalk, and
                                > > proceed to
                                > > > cut yourself and bleed on the sidewalk in front of the patrons.
                                > > Legal? Yes.
                                > > > Appropriate? No.
                                > > >
                                > > > The list is endless.
                                > > >
                                > > > The point being, the level of legality is not the same level for
                                > > social
                                > > > consideration or politeness, or common decency.
                                > > > The fact that you can do something, does not mean you should do it.
                                > > >
                                > > > Gary T
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                > > > From: Tim Condon
                                > > > To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                                > > > Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 6:01 PM
                                > > > Subject: Re: [FSP] Pls Digg... CBS picked this up
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > So long as your activity doesn't aggress against anyone else or
                                > > their
                                > > > co-equal right to do what they want without aggressing against
                                > > you, yes.
                                > > > Appropriateness isn't the measure of whether other people
                                > > disapprove, or
                                > > > are
                                > > > made uncomfortable. And it is *never* inappropriate to openly
                                > > exercise a
                                > > > specific right that is guaranteed in the U.S. Constitution. In
                                > > fact, it is
                                > > > absolutely necessary that people exercise such rights openly; such
                                > > actions
                                > > > should be encouraged, or such rights will come to be frowned upon,
                                > > and
                                > > > even
                                > > > judged "inappropriate" in many---and eventually all---circumstances.
                                > > > Exhibit
                                > > > #1: The Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms, which
                                > > William Kostic
                                > > > was peaceably and entirely legitimately exercising. I wish I had
                                > > been
                                > > > present to support him by keeping and bearing my own openly-carried
                                > > > side-arm, the right to which is guaranteed by the above-said Second
                                > > > Amendment. ---Tim Condon (who is a lawyer)
                                > > >
                                > > > On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 11:55 AM, Carol Moore/Secession.Net <
                                > > > contacts@...> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > > It would be perfectly legal for me to wear a big
                                > > > > fake breasts prop to speak up for nudists rights
                                > > > > on private property, but would it be appropriate
                                > > > > at every libertarian protest??
                                > > > >
                                > > > > GTriest wrote:
                                > > > > > I think Chris Matthews had a point though, many things are
                                > > perfectly
                                > > > > legal but simply inappropriate.
                                > > > > > The sign of course refers to blood and revolution, etc.
                                > > > > > I think it might have been too close to other implications to
                                > > have
                                > > > been
                                > > > > appropriate. Sure a judgment call, but that is my opinion.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > If this was the president campaigning for an anti-gun law,
                                > > then it
                                > > > might
                                > > > > be appropriate.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Gary T
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                > > > > > From: Chris Lawless
                                > > > > > To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                                > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:36 PM
                                > > > > > Subject: Re: [FSP] Pls Digg... CBS picked this up
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Carol I don't really know who you are directing that at.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > In NH it is 100% legal to have a gun in then open. (see the
                                > > video of
                                > > > > the police officer and William)
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > I won't speak for William but I know that many of the people
                                > > that I
                                > > > was
                                > > > > with at the 'rally' were also protesting President Bush in the
                                > > past. In
                                > > > > fact the Obama fans couldn't figure us out because we were anti
                                > > > Government
                                > > > > healthcare, anti occupation of Iraq, expansion of Afghan war,
                                > > anti Bush
                                > > > etc
                                > > > > etc.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > --- On Wed, 8/12/09, Carol Moore/Secession.Net <
                                > > > contacts@...>
                                > > > > wrote:
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > From: Carol Moore/Secession.Net <contacts@...>
                                > > > > > Subject: Re: [FSP] Pls Digg... CBS picked this up
                                > > > > > To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                                > > > > > Date: Wednesday, August 12, 2009, 6:20 AM
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > And let's not forget "Gun toting to prove you are a "real man"
                                > > can
                                > > > ruin
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > a revolution."
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Not to mention where was he when Bush was stealing all our
                                > > liberties,
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > which Obama is merely expanding upon?? And where were the
                                > > Republicans
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > in producing a free market in health care the 6 years they
                                > > controlled
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > presidency, house and senate? Where's their united front on
                                > > such an
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > alternative now? Could it be: "Sold to the insurance industry
                                > > that
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > doesn't want competition, be it from lower priced individual
                                > > plans
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > (which would flourish if individuals got same tax break as
                                > > business)
                                > > > > and
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > doesn't want cross-state competition, which currently is
                                > > illegal. Just
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > for starters...
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Chris Lawless wrote:
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > > http://digg. com/politics/ Gun_Toting_ Man_Draws_ Scrutiny_
                                > > > > Outside_Obama_ Town_Hall
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > > and please forward
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > > ************ ********* ********* ********* *
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > > I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty
                                > > is no
                                > > > > vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of
                                > > > justice
                                > > > > is no virtue!
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > > --
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Carol Moore in DC
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > http://carolmoore. net/
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > http://carolmoorere port.blogspot. com/
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > http://youtube. com/carolmoore
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > http://secession. net
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > http://stopthewarno w.net
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > http://whatwouldgan dhido.net
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > http://radicalbutto ns.com
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > NOTICE: Due to Presidential Executive Orders,
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > the National Security Agency may have read this
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > email without judicial or legislative oversight
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > or warning, warrant, or notice. You have no
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > recourse nor protection save to secede from the union.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > ------------------------------------
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > > --
                                > > > > Carol Moore in DC
                                > > > > http://carolmoore.net/
                                > > > > http://carolmoorereport.blogspot.com/
                                > > > > http://youtube.com/carolmoore
                                > > > > http://secession.net
                                > > > > http://stopthewarnow.net
                                > > > > http://whatwouldgandhido.net
                                > > > > http://radicalbuttons.com
                                > > > >
                                > > > > NOTICE: Due to Presidential Executive Orders,
                                > > > > the National Security Agency may have read this
                                > > > > email without judicial or legislative oversight
                                > > > > or warning, warrant, or notice. You have no
                                > > > > recourse nor protection save to secede from the union.
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > > ------------------------------------
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > ------------------------------------
                                > > >
                                > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------
                                >
                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • GaryT
                                Well the arguments may coincide, (mine and theirs) but that doesn t mean too much, because obversely Demopublicans political positions also coincide with
                                Message 15 of 27 , Aug 18, 2009
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Well the arguments may coincide, (mine and theirs) but that doesn't mean too much, because obversely Demopublicans' political positions also coincide with libertarian political positions (as do sheer Socialist arguments), but only part of the time.

                                  I don't think guns should be outlawed, or zoned, or real id'd, etc. Those are laws infringing upon the right to carry and bear arms.
                                  My commentary never mentioned laws, it only concerned applied civility under the right circumstances.

                                  Again, I don't suggest an infringement of rights, just the social wherewithal to know when and where public social behavior is appropriate.
                                  This is a problem that those with Aspberger's often have, they are good at understanding the black and white of laws and rights, but they have a tough time with the variations of grey as applied in social situations.
                                  There is a value associated with social conduct, which a meta-libertarian concept, and a society I would hope to live in, within a libertarian legal system.

                                  Gary T


                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: Tim Condon
                                  To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com ; RLCNH ; nhrvc@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 10:27 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [FSP] Pls Digg... CBS picked this up


                                  No offense taken, Gary. However, the arguments you make below sound an awful
                                  lot like the arguments liberals and other statists use all the time to
                                  continually encroach upon individual liberties. They think guns should be
                                  outlawed because if guns were legal "people would be shooting each other on
                                  the street every day." We must have zoning because "if we don't have zoning
                                  they'll put up a pig farm (or chemical factory; those are the two favorites)
                                  right next door to your house!" And we must have Real ID because terrorists
                                  will run rampant throughout America and kill everyone if we don't have
                                  "papers" that everyone must carry.
                                  You pick out some examples below that are certainly designed to elicit the
                                  same response. But we're not talking about doing any of those things. We're
                                  talking about a specific, inalienable, Constitutionally mandated right, i.e.
                                  the right to keep and "bear" arms. I don't particularly care if every other
                                  person in America (in addition to Chris Matthews) thinks was "inappropriate"
                                  to openly carry a sidearm at the Portsmouth protest. I repeat: "It is
                                  *never* inappropriate to openly exercise a specific right that is guaranteed
                                  in the U.S. Constitution." So although there may be all kinds of people who
                                  think exercising that particular right, at that particular time, at that
                                  particular venue was "in poor taste," or "silly," or "scary," or
                                  whatever....that's too bad. This is the Free State. We take our natural and
                                  Constitutional rights seriously, and there's never a "wrong" time to
                                  exercise any of them. ---Tim Condon

                                  On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 3:14 AM, GaryT <garyonthenet@...> wrote:

                                  > Well, don't take this personally, but I think that is extremist thinking
                                  > and can lead to foolish behavior.
                                  >
                                  > Once again, as I said before, there are many things you may have legal
                                  > right to do, but may be completely socially inappropriate nonetheless.
                                  > You may invited to a vegetarian dinner function, yet choose to slaughter a
                                  > rabbit and eat it raw in front of all there.
                                  > Legal? Yes. Appropriate? No. Unless you were affirmatively trying to
                                  > offend.
                                  >
                                  > You might take a dump on public land in front of a 7 year old child. Legal?
                                  > Probably.
                                  > Acceptable under social civililty norms? Not at all.
                                  >
                                  > You might stand outside a restaurant on a public sidewalk, and proceed to
                                  > cut yourself and bleed on the sidewalk in front of the patrons. Legal? Yes.
                                  > Appropriate? No.
                                  >
                                  > The list is endless.
                                  >
                                  > The point being, the level of legality is not the same level for social
                                  > consideration or politeness, or common decency.
                                  > The fact that you can do something, does not mean you should do it.
                                  >
                                  > Gary T
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > From: Tim Condon
                                  > To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 6:01 PM
                                  > Subject: Re: [FSP] Pls Digg... CBS picked this up
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > So long as your activity doesn't aggress against anyone else or their
                                  > co-equal right to do what they want without aggressing against you, yes.
                                  > Appropriateness isn't the measure of whether other people disapprove, or
                                  > are
                                  > made uncomfortable. And it is *never* inappropriate to openly exercise a
                                  > specific right that is guaranteed in the U.S. Constitution. In fact, it is
                                  > absolutely necessary that people exercise such rights openly; such actions
                                  > should be encouraged, or such rights will come to be frowned upon, and
                                  > even
                                  > judged "inappropriate" in many---and eventually all---circumstances.
                                  > Exhibit
                                  > #1: The Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms, which William Kostic
                                  > was peaceably and entirely legitimately exercising. I wish I had been
                                  > present to support him by keeping and bearing my own openly-carried
                                  > side-arm, the right to which is guaranteed by the above-said Second
                                  > Amendment. ---Tim Condon (who is a lawyer)
                                  >
                                  > On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 11:55 AM, Carol Moore/Secession.Net <
                                  > contacts@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > It would be perfectly legal for me to wear a big
                                  > > fake breasts prop to speak up for nudists rights
                                  > > on private property, but would it be appropriate
                                  > > at every libertarian protest??
                                  > >
                                  > > GTriest wrote:
                                  > > > I think Chris Matthews had a point though, many things are perfectly
                                  > > legal but simply inappropriate.
                                  > > > The sign of course refers to blood and revolution, etc.
                                  > > > I think it might have been too close to other implications to have
                                  > been
                                  > > appropriate. Sure a judgment call, but that is my opinion.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > If this was the president campaigning for an anti-gun law, then it
                                  > might
                                  > > be appropriate.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Gary T
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > > > From: Chris Lawless
                                  > > > To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:36 PM
                                  > > > Subject: Re: [FSP] Pls Digg... CBS picked this up
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Carol I don't really know who you are directing that at.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > In NH it is 100% legal to have a gun in then open. (see the video of
                                  > > the police officer and William)
                                  > > >
                                  > > > I won't speak for William but I know that many of the people that I
                                  > was
                                  > > with at the 'rally' were also protesting President Bush in the past. In
                                  > > fact the Obama fans couldn't figure us out because we were anti
                                  > Government
                                  > > healthcare, anti occupation of Iraq, expansion of Afghan war, anti Bush
                                  > etc
                                  > > etc.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > --- On Wed, 8/12/09, Carol Moore/Secession.Net <
                                  > contacts@...>
                                  > > wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > From: Carol Moore/Secession.Net <contacts@...>
                                  > > > Subject: Re: [FSP] Pls Digg... CBS picked this up
                                  > > > To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > > Date: Wednesday, August 12, 2009, 6:20 AM
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > And let's not forget "Gun toting to prove you are a "real man" can
                                  > ruin
                                  > > >
                                  > > > a revolution."
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Not to mention where was he when Bush was stealing all our liberties,
                                  > > >
                                  > > > which Obama is merely expanding upon?? And where were the Republicans
                                  > > >
                                  > > > in producing a free market in health care the 6 years they controlled
                                  > > >
                                  > > > presidency, house and senate? Where's their united front on such an
                                  > > >
                                  > > > alternative now? Could it be: "Sold to the insurance industry that
                                  > > >
                                  > > > doesn't want competition, be it from lower priced individual plans
                                  > > >
                                  > > > (which would flourish if individuals got same tax break as business)
                                  > > and
                                  > > >
                                  > > > doesn't want cross-state competition, which currently is illegal. Just
                                  > > >
                                  > > > for starters...
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Chris Lawless wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > > http://digg. com/politics/ Gun_Toting_ Man_Draws_ Scrutiny_
                                  > > Outside_Obama_ Town_Hall
                                  > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > > and please forward
                                  > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > > ************ ********* ********* ********* *
                                  > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > > I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no
                                  > > vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of
                                  > justice
                                  > > is no virtue!
                                  > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > > --
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Carol Moore in DC
                                  > > >
                                  > > > http://carolmoore. net/
                                  > > >
                                  > > > http://carolmoorere port.blogspot. com/
                                  > > >
                                  > > > http://youtube. com/carolmoore
                                  > > >
                                  > > > http://secession. net
                                  > > >
                                  > > > http://stopthewarno w.net
                                  > > >
                                  > > > http://whatwouldgan dhido.net
                                  > > >
                                  > > > http://radicalbutto ns.com
                                  > > >
                                  > > > NOTICE: Due to Presidential Executive Orders,
                                  > > >
                                  > > > the National Security Agency may have read this
                                  > > >
                                  > > > email without judicial or legislative oversight
                                  > > >
                                  > > > or warning, warrant, or notice. You have no
                                  > > >
                                  > > > recourse nor protection save to secede from the union.
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > ------------------------------------
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  > > --
                                  > > Carol Moore in DC
                                  > > http://carolmoore.net/
                                  > > http://carolmoorereport.blogspot.com/
                                  > > http://youtube.com/carolmoore
                                  > > http://secession.net
                                  > > http://stopthewarnow.net
                                  > > http://whatwouldgandhido.net
                                  > > http://radicalbuttons.com
                                  > >
                                  > > NOTICE: Due to Presidential Executive Orders,
                                  > > the National Security Agency may have read this
                                  > > email without judicial or legislative oversight
                                  > > or warning, warrant, or notice. You have no
                                  > > recourse nor protection save to secede from the union.
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > ------------------------------------
                                  > >
                                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ------------------------------------
                                  >
                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Tim Condon
                                  I understand your position and concerns, Gary. However, I have to reiterate that I feel it is never wrong to exercise a Constitutional right, particularly that
                                  Message 16 of 27 , Aug 18, 2009
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    I understand your position and concerns, Gary. However, I have to reiterate
                                    that I feel it is never wrong to exercise a Constitutional right,
                                    particularly that of bearing arms. People are leery about open carry now
                                    because it is "odd" and "unusual." We should ensure that from now it is
                                    *not* odd or unusual, and in fact is done all the time, as befits free
                                    people. Further, we all know that rights, like muscles, atrophy when not
                                    used. Thus, we should use our rights publicly whenever and wherever
                                    possible. ---Tim C.



                                    On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 11:07 AM, GaryT <garyonthenet@...> wrote:

                                    > Well the arguments may coincide, (mine and theirs) but that doesn't mean
                                    > too much, because obversely Demopublicans' political positions also coincide
                                    > with libertarian political positions (as do sheer Socialist arguments), but
                                    > only part of the time.
                                    >
                                    > I don't think guns should be outlawed, or zoned, or real id'd, etc. Those
                                    > are laws infringing upon the right to carry and bear arms.
                                    > My commentary never mentioned laws, it only concerned applied civility
                                    > under the right circumstances.
                                    >
                                    > Again, I don't suggest an infringement of rights, just the social
                                    > wherewithal to know when and where public social behavior is appropriate.
                                    > This is a problem that those with Aspberger's often have, they are good at
                                    > understanding the black and white of laws and rights, but they have a tough
                                    > time with the variations of grey as applied in social situations.
                                    > There is a value associated with social conduct, which a meta-libertarian
                                    > concept, and a society I would hope to live in, within a libertarian legal
                                    > system.
                                    >
                                    > Gary T
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > From: Tim Condon
                                    > To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com ; RLCNH ; nhrvc@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 10:27 PM
                                    > Subject: Re: [FSP] Pls Digg... CBS picked this up
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > No offense taken, Gary. However, the arguments you make below sound an
                                    > awful
                                    > lot like the arguments liberals and other statists use all the time to
                                    > continually encroach upon individual liberties. They think guns should be
                                    > outlawed because if guns were legal "people would be shooting each other
                                    > on
                                    > the street every day." We must have zoning because "if we don't have
                                    > zoning
                                    > they'll put up a pig farm (or chemical factory; those are the two
                                    > favorites)
                                    > right next door to your house!" And we must have Real ID because
                                    > terrorists
                                    > will run rampant throughout America and kill everyone if we don't have
                                    > "papers" that everyone must carry.
                                    > You pick out some examples below that are certainly designed to elicit the
                                    > same response. But we're not talking about doing any of those things.
                                    > We're
                                    > talking about a specific, inalienable, Constitutionally mandated right,
                                    > i.e.
                                    > the right to keep and "bear" arms. I don't particularly care if every
                                    > other
                                    > person in America (in addition to Chris Matthews) thinks was
                                    > "inappropriate"
                                    > to openly carry a sidearm at the Portsmouth protest. I repeat: "It is
                                    > *never* inappropriate to openly exercise a specific right that is
                                    > guaranteed
                                    > in the U.S. Constitution." So although there may be all kinds of people
                                    > who
                                    > think exercising that particular right, at that particular time, at that
                                    > particular venue was "in poor taste," or "silly," or "scary," or
                                    > whatever....that's too bad. This is the Free State. We take our natural
                                    > and
                                    > Constitutional rights seriously, and there's never a "wrong" time to
                                    > exercise any of them. ---Tim Condon
                                    >
                                    > On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 3:14 AM, GaryT <garyonthenet@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > > Well, don't take this personally, but I think that is extremist thinking
                                    > > and can lead to foolish behavior.
                                    > >
                                    > > Once again, as I said before, there are many things you may have legal
                                    > > right to do, but may be completely socially inappropriate nonetheless.
                                    > > You may invited to a vegetarian dinner function, yet choose to slaughter
                                    > a
                                    > > rabbit and eat it raw in front of all there.
                                    > > Legal? Yes. Appropriate? No. Unless you were affirmatively trying to
                                    > > offend.
                                    > >
                                    > > You might take a dump on public land in front of a 7 year old child.
                                    > Legal?
                                    > > Probably.
                                    > > Acceptable under social civililty norms? Not at all.
                                    > >
                                    > > You might stand outside a restaurant on a public sidewalk, and proceed
                                    > to
                                    > > cut yourself and bleed on the sidewalk in front of the patrons. Legal?
                                    > Yes.
                                    > > Appropriate? No.
                                    > >
                                    > > The list is endless.
                                    > >
                                    > > The point being, the level of legality is not the same level for social
                                    > > consideration or politeness, or common decency.
                                    > > The fact that you can do something, does not mean you should do it.
                                    > >
                                    > > Gary T
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > > From: Tim Condon
                                    > > To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 6:01 PM
                                    > > Subject: Re: [FSP] Pls Digg... CBS picked this up
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > So long as your activity doesn't aggress against anyone else or their
                                    > > co-equal right to do what they want without aggressing against you, yes.
                                    > > Appropriateness isn't the measure of whether other people disapprove, or
                                    > > are
                                    > > made uncomfortable. And it is *never* inappropriate to openly exercise a
                                    > > specific right that is guaranteed in the U.S. Constitution. In fact, it
                                    > is
                                    > > absolutely necessary that people exercise such rights openly; such
                                    > actions
                                    > > should be encouraged, or such rights will come to be frowned upon, and
                                    > > even
                                    > > judged "inappropriate" in many---and eventually all---circumstances.
                                    > > Exhibit
                                    > > #1: The Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms, which William
                                    > Kostic
                                    > > was peaceably and entirely legitimately exercising. I wish I had been
                                    > > present to support him by keeping and bearing my own openly-carried
                                    > > side-arm, the right to which is guaranteed by the above-said Second
                                    > > Amendment. ---Tim Condon (who is a lawyer)
                                    > >
                                    > > On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 11:55 AM, Carol Moore/Secession.Net <
                                    > > contacts@...> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > > It would be perfectly legal for me to wear a big
                                    > > > fake breasts prop to speak up for nudists rights
                                    > > > on private property, but would it be appropriate
                                    > > > at every libertarian protest??
                                    > > >
                                    > > > GTriest wrote:
                                    > > > > I think Chris Matthews had a point though, many things are perfectly
                                    > > > legal but simply inappropriate.
                                    > > > > The sign of course refers to blood and revolution, etc.
                                    > > > > I think it might have been too close to other implications to have
                                    > > been
                                    > > > appropriate. Sure a judgment call, but that is my opinion.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > If this was the president campaigning for an anti-gun law, then it
                                    > > might
                                    > > > be appropriate.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Gary T
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > > > > From: Chris Lawless
                                    > > > > To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:36 PM
                                    > > > > Subject: Re: [FSP] Pls Digg... CBS picked this up
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Carol I don't really know who you are directing that at.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > In NH it is 100% legal to have a gun in then open. (see the video of
                                    > > > the police officer and William)
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > I won't speak for William but I know that many of the people that I
                                    > > was
                                    > > > with at the 'rally' were also protesting President Bush in the past.
                                    > In
                                    > > > fact the Obama fans couldn't figure us out because we were anti
                                    > > Government
                                    > > > healthcare, anti occupation of Iraq, expansion of Afghan war, anti
                                    > Bush
                                    > > etc
                                    > > > etc.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > --- On Wed, 8/12/09, Carol Moore/Secession.Net <
                                    > > contacts@...>
                                    > > > wrote:
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > From: Carol Moore/Secession.Net <contacts@...>
                                    > > > > Subject: Re: [FSP] Pls Digg... CBS picked this up
                                    > > > > To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > > > Date: Wednesday, August 12, 2009, 6:20 AM
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > And let's not forget "Gun toting to prove you are a "real man" can
                                    > > ruin
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > a revolution."
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Not to mention where was he when Bush was stealing all our
                                    > liberties,
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > which Obama is merely expanding upon?? And where were the
                                    > Republicans
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > in producing a free market in health care the 6 years they
                                    > controlled
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > presidency, house and senate? Where's their united front on such an
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > alternative now? Could it be: "Sold to the insurance industry that
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > doesn't want competition, be it from lower priced individual plans
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > (which would flourish if individuals got same tax break as business)
                                    > > > and
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > doesn't want cross-state competition, which currently is illegal.
                                    > Just
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > for starters...
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Chris Lawless wrote:
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > > http://digg. com/politics/ Gun_Toting_ Man_Draws_ Scrutiny_
                                    > > > Outside_Obama_ Town_Hall
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > > and please forward
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > > ************ ********* ********* ********* *
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > > I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no
                                    > > > vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of
                                    > > justice
                                    > > > is no virtue!
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > > --
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Carol Moore in DC
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > http://carolmoore. net/
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > http://carolmoorere port.blogspot. com/
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > http://youtube. com/carolmoore
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > http://secession. net
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > http://stopthewarno w.net
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > http://whatwouldgan dhido.net
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > http://radicalbutto ns.com
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > NOTICE: Due to Presidential Executive Orders,
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > the National Security Agency may have read this
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > email without judicial or legislative oversight
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > or warning, warrant, or notice. You have no
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > recourse nor protection save to secede from the union.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > ------------------------------------
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > --
                                    > > > Carol Moore in DC
                                    > > > http://carolmoore.net/
                                    > > > http://carolmoorereport.blogspot.com/
                                    > > > http://youtube.com/carolmoore
                                    > > > http://secession.net
                                    > > > http://stopthewarnow.net
                                    > > > http://whatwouldgandhido.net
                                    > > > http://radicalbuttons.com
                                    > > >
                                    > > > NOTICE: Due to Presidential Executive Orders,
                                    > > > the National Security Agency may have read this
                                    > > > email without judicial or legislative oversight
                                    > > > or warning, warrant, or notice. You have no
                                    > > > recourse nor protection save to secede from the union.
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > ------------------------------------
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > ------------------------------------
                                    > >
                                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ------------------------------------
                                    >
                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • GaryT
                                    I agree that another person should have had the right to carry there. Then most likely someone would have been able to stop him. Gary T ... From: Tim Condon
                                    Message 17 of 27 , Aug 18, 2009
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      I agree that another person should have had the right to carry there. Then most likely someone would have been able to stop him.

                                      Gary T

                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: Tim Condon
                                      To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 8:20 AM
                                      Subject: Re: [FSP] Pls Digg... CBS picked this up


                                      Thank you, Ma'am.
                                      If only someone in the gym other than the mentally deranged killer had had a
                                      sidearm...it might have been only him who got killed. As it was, no one had
                                      the means to put a quick stop to him. One more example and reason why "more
                                      guns means less crime." <http://www.aei.org/book/605> ---Tim Condon

                                      On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 10:56 PM, Lady Liberty <ladylibrty@...>wrote:

                                      > I'm falling on the side of the angels, here. In case it's not obvious,
                                      > Tim, that's you. :-)
                                      >
                                      > Here's a brief excerpt from my commentary this week which talks about
                                      > the Pittsburgh gym shooter and the New Hampshire free man:
                                      >
                                      > "These two scenarios occurring two weeks apart couldn't be much more
                                      > different. In the first, a man with a gun committed murder. In the
                                      > second, a man with a gun did...nothing. And yet both have engendered
                                      > horror from anti-gun advocates. To me, this proves that some people
                                      > are far more fearful of firearms than they are of the person wielding
                                      > them. Given the end result of both these incidents, I think there's
                                      > ample evidence instead that they might want to place blame where it
                                      > goes rather than on a tool that can be used, misused, or, most often,
                                      > not used at all."
                                      >
                                      > Lady Liberty
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > On Aug 17, 2009, at 10:27 PM, Tim Condon wrote:
                                      >
                                      > > No offense taken, Gary. However, the arguments you make below sound
                                      > > an awful
                                      > > lot like the arguments liberals and other statists use all the time to
                                      > > continually encroach upon individual liberties. They think guns
                                      > > should be
                                      > > outlawed because if guns were legal "people would be shooting each
                                      > > other on
                                      > > the street every day." We must have zoning because "if we don't have
                                      > > zoning
                                      > > they'll put up a pig farm (or chemical factory; those are the two
                                      > > favorites)
                                      > > right next door to your house!" And we must have Real ID because
                                      > > terrorists
                                      > > will run rampant throughout America and kill everyone if we don't have
                                      > > "papers" that everyone must carry.
                                      > > You pick out some examples below that are certainly designed to
                                      > > elicit the
                                      > > same response. But we're not talking about doing any of those
                                      > > things. We're
                                      > > talking about a specific, inalienable, Constitutionally mandated
                                      > > right, i.e.
                                      > > the right to keep and "bear" arms. I don't particularly care if
                                      > > every other
                                      > > person in America (in addition to Chris Matthews) thinks was
                                      > > "inappropriate"
                                      > > to openly carry a sidearm at the Portsmouth protest. I repeat: "It is
                                      > > *never* inappropriate to openly exercise a specific right that is
                                      > > guaranteed
                                      > > in the U.S. Constitution." So although there may be all kinds of
                                      > > people who
                                      > > think exercising that particular right, at that particular time, at
                                      > > that
                                      > > particular venue was "in poor taste," or "silly," or "scary," or
                                      > > whatever....that's too bad. This is the Free State. We take our
                                      > > natural and
                                      > > Constitutional rights seriously, and there's never a "wrong" time to
                                      > > exercise any of them. ---Tim Condon
                                      > >
                                      > > On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 3:14 AM, GaryT <garyonthenet@...> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > > Well, don't take this personally, but I think that is extremist
                                      > > thinking
                                      > > > and can lead to foolish behavior.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Once again, as I said before, there are many things you may have
                                      > > legal
                                      > > > right to do, but may be completely socially inappropriate
                                      > > nonetheless.
                                      > > > You may invited to a vegetarian dinner function, yet choose to
                                      > > slaughter a
                                      > > > rabbit and eat it raw in front of all there.
                                      > > > Legal? Yes. Appropriate? No. Unless you were affirmatively trying to
                                      > > > offend.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > You might take a dump on public land in front of a 7 year old
                                      > > child. Legal?
                                      > > > Probably.
                                      > > > Acceptable under social civililty norms? Not at all.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > You might stand outside a restaurant on a public sidewalk, and
                                      > > proceed to
                                      > > > cut yourself and bleed on the sidewalk in front of the patrons.
                                      > > Legal? Yes.
                                      > > > Appropriate? No.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > The list is endless.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > The point being, the level of legality is not the same level for
                                      > > social
                                      > > > consideration or politeness, or common decency.
                                      > > > The fact that you can do something, does not mean you should do it.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Gary T
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                      > > > From: Tim Condon
                                      > > > To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > > Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 6:01 PM
                                      > > > Subject: Re: [FSP] Pls Digg... CBS picked this up
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > So long as your activity doesn't aggress against anyone else or
                                      > > their
                                      > > > co-equal right to do what they want without aggressing against
                                      > > you, yes.
                                      > > > Appropriateness isn't the measure of whether other people
                                      > > disapprove, or
                                      > > > are
                                      > > > made uncomfortable. And it is *never* inappropriate to openly
                                      > > exercise a
                                      > > > specific right that is guaranteed in the U.S. Constitution. In
                                      > > fact, it is
                                      > > > absolutely necessary that people exercise such rights openly; such
                                      > > actions
                                      > > > should be encouraged, or such rights will come to be frowned upon,
                                      > > and
                                      > > > even
                                      > > > judged "inappropriate" in many---and eventually all---circumstances.
                                      > > > Exhibit
                                      > > > #1: The Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms, which
                                      > > William Kostic
                                      > > > was peaceably and entirely legitimately exercising. I wish I had
                                      > > been
                                      > > > present to support him by keeping and bearing my own openly-carried
                                      > > > side-arm, the right to which is guaranteed by the above-said Second
                                      > > > Amendment. ---Tim Condon (who is a lawyer)
                                      > > >
                                      > > > On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 11:55 AM, Carol Moore/Secession.Net <
                                      > > > contacts@...> wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > > It would be perfectly legal for me to wear a big
                                      > > > > fake breasts prop to speak up for nudists rights
                                      > > > > on private property, but would it be appropriate
                                      > > > > at every libertarian protest??
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > GTriest wrote:
                                      > > > > > I think Chris Matthews had a point though, many things are
                                      > > perfectly
                                      > > > > legal but simply inappropriate.
                                      > > > > > The sign of course refers to blood and revolution, etc.
                                      > > > > > I think it might have been too close to other implications to
                                      > > have
                                      > > > been
                                      > > > > appropriate. Sure a judgment call, but that is my opinion.
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > If this was the president campaigning for an anti-gun law,
                                      > > then it
                                      > > > might
                                      > > > > be appropriate.
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > Gary T
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                      > > > > > From: Chris Lawless
                                      > > > > > To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:36 PM
                                      > > > > > Subject: Re: [FSP] Pls Digg... CBS picked this up
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > Carol I don't really know who you are directing that at.
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > In NH it is 100% legal to have a gun in then open. (see the
                                      > > video of
                                      > > > > the police officer and William)
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > I won't speak for William but I know that many of the people
                                      > > that I
                                      > > > was
                                      > > > > with at the 'rally' were also protesting President Bush in the
                                      > > past. In
                                      > > > > fact the Obama fans couldn't figure us out because we were anti
                                      > > > Government
                                      > > > > healthcare, anti occupation of Iraq, expansion of Afghan war,
                                      > > anti Bush
                                      > > > etc
                                      > > > > etc.
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > --- On Wed, 8/12/09, Carol Moore/Secession.Net <
                                      > > > contacts@...>
                                      > > > > wrote:
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > From: Carol Moore/Secession.Net <contacts@...>
                                      > > > > > Subject: Re: [FSP] Pls Digg... CBS picked this up
                                      > > > > > To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > > > > Date: Wednesday, August 12, 2009, 6:20 AM
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > And let's not forget "Gun toting to prove you are a "real man"
                                      > > can
                                      > > > ruin
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > a revolution."
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > Not to mention where was he when Bush was stealing all our
                                      > > liberties,
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > which Obama is merely expanding upon?? And where were the
                                      > > Republicans
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > in producing a free market in health care the 6 years they
                                      > > controlled
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > presidency, house and senate? Where's their united front on
                                      > > such an
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > alternative now? Could it be: "Sold to the insurance industry
                                      > > that
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > doesn't want competition, be it from lower priced individual
                                      > > plans
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > (which would flourish if individuals got same tax break as
                                      > > business)
                                      > > > > and
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > doesn't want cross-state competition, which currently is
                                      > > illegal. Just
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > for starters...
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > Chris Lawless wrote:
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > http://digg. com/politics/ Gun_Toting_ Man_Draws_ Scrutiny_
                                      > > > > Outside_Obama_ Town_Hall
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > and please forward
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > ************ ********* ********* ********* *
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty
                                      > > is no
                                      > > > > vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of
                                      > > > justice
                                      > > > > is no virtue!
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > --
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > Carol Moore in DC
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > http://carolmoore. net/
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > http://carolmoorere port.blogspot. com/
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > http://youtube. com/carolmoore
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > http://secession. net
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > http://stopthewarno w.net
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > http://whatwouldgan dhido.net
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > http://radicalbutto ns.com
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > NOTICE: Due to Presidential Executive Orders,
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > the National Security Agency may have read this
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > email without judicial or legislative oversight
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > or warning, warrant, or notice. You have no
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > recourse nor protection save to secede from the union.
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > ------------------------------------
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > --
                                      > > > > Carol Moore in DC
                                      > > > > http://carolmoore.net/
                                      > > > > http://carolmoorereport.blogspot.com/
                                      > > > > http://youtube.com/carolmoore
                                      > > > > http://secession.net
                                      > > > > http://stopthewarnow.net
                                      > > > > http://whatwouldgandhido.net
                                      > > > > http://radicalbuttons.com
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > NOTICE: Due to Presidential Executive Orders,
                                      > > > > the National Security Agency may have read this
                                      > > > > email without judicial or legislative oversight
                                      > > > > or warning, warrant, or notice. You have no
                                      > > > > recourse nor protection save to secede from the union.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > ------------------------------------
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > ------------------------------------
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > ------------------------------------
                                      >
                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >

                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • GaryT
                                      A principled position to take, and I respect that opinion. Gary T ... From: Tim Condon To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 2:24
                                      Message 18 of 27 , Aug 18, 2009
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        A principled position to take, and I respect that opinion.

                                        Gary T

                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: Tim Condon
                                        To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 2:24 PM
                                        Subject: Re: [FSP] Pls Digg... CBS picked this up


                                        I understand your position and concerns, Gary. However, I have to reiterate
                                        that I feel it is never wrong to exercise a Constitutional right,
                                        particularly that of bearing arms. People are leery about open carry now
                                        because it is "odd" and "unusual." We should ensure that from now it is
                                        *not* odd or unusual, and in fact is done all the time, as befits free
                                        people. Further, we all know that rights, like muscles, atrophy when not
                                        used. Thus, we should use our rights publicly whenever and wherever
                                        possible. ---Tim C.

                                        On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 11:07 AM, GaryT <garyonthenet@...> wrote:

                                        > Well the arguments may coincide, (mine and theirs) but that doesn't mean
                                        > too much, because obversely Demopublicans' political positions also coincide
                                        > with libertarian political positions (as do sheer Socialist arguments), but
                                        > only part of the time.
                                        >
                                        > I don't think guns should be outlawed, or zoned, or real id'd, etc. Those
                                        > are laws infringing upon the right to carry and bear arms.
                                        > My commentary never mentioned laws, it only concerned applied civility
                                        > under the right circumstances.
                                        >
                                        > Again, I don't suggest an infringement of rights, just the social
                                        > wherewithal to know when and where public social behavior is appropriate.
                                        > This is a problem that those with Aspberger's often have, they are good at
                                        > understanding the black and white of laws and rights, but they have a tough
                                        > time with the variations of grey as applied in social situations.
                                        > There is a value associated with social conduct, which a meta-libertarian
                                        > concept, and a society I would hope to live in, within a libertarian legal
                                        > system.
                                        >
                                        > Gary T
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > ----- Original Message -----
                                        > From: Tim Condon
                                        > To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com ; RLCNH ; nhrvc@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 10:27 PM
                                        > Subject: Re: [FSP] Pls Digg... CBS picked this up
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > No offense taken, Gary. However, the arguments you make below sound an
                                        > awful
                                        > lot like the arguments liberals and other statists use all the time to
                                        > continually encroach upon individual liberties. They think guns should be
                                        > outlawed because if guns were legal "people would be shooting each other
                                        > on
                                        > the street every day." We must have zoning because "if we don't have
                                        > zoning
                                        > they'll put up a pig farm (or chemical factory; those are the two
                                        > favorites)
                                        > right next door to your house!" And we must have Real ID because
                                        > terrorists
                                        > will run rampant throughout America and kill everyone if we don't have
                                        > "papers" that everyone must carry.
                                        > You pick out some examples below that are certainly designed to elicit the
                                        > same response. But we're not talking about doing any of those things.
                                        > We're
                                        > talking about a specific, inalienable, Constitutionally mandated right,
                                        > i.e.
                                        > the right to keep and "bear" arms. I don't particularly care if every
                                        > other
                                        > person in America (in addition to Chris Matthews) thinks was
                                        > "inappropriate"
                                        > to openly carry a sidearm at the Portsmouth protest. I repeat: "It is
                                        > *never* inappropriate to openly exercise a specific right that is
                                        > guaranteed
                                        > in the U.S. Constitution." So although there may be all kinds of people
                                        > who
                                        > think exercising that particular right, at that particular time, at that
                                        > particular venue was "in poor taste," or "silly," or "scary," or
                                        > whatever....that's too bad. This is the Free State. We take our natural
                                        > and
                                        > Constitutional rights seriously, and there's never a "wrong" time to
                                        > exercise any of them. ---Tim Condon
                                        >
                                        > On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 3:14 AM, GaryT <garyonthenet@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > > Well, don't take this personally, but I think that is extremist thinking
                                        > > and can lead to foolish behavior.
                                        > >
                                        > > Once again, as I said before, there are many things you may have legal
                                        > > right to do, but may be completely socially inappropriate nonetheless.
                                        > > You may invited to a vegetarian dinner function, yet choose to slaughter
                                        > a
                                        > > rabbit and eat it raw in front of all there.
                                        > > Legal? Yes. Appropriate? No. Unless you were affirmatively trying to
                                        > > offend.
                                        > >
                                        > > You might take a dump on public land in front of a 7 year old child.
                                        > Legal?
                                        > > Probably.
                                        > > Acceptable under social civililty norms? Not at all.
                                        > >
                                        > > You might stand outside a restaurant on a public sidewalk, and proceed
                                        > to
                                        > > cut yourself and bleed on the sidewalk in front of the patrons. Legal?
                                        > Yes.
                                        > > Appropriate? No.
                                        > >
                                        > > The list is endless.
                                        > >
                                        > > The point being, the level of legality is not the same level for social
                                        > > consideration or politeness, or common decency.
                                        > > The fact that you can do something, does not mean you should do it.
                                        > >
                                        > > Gary T
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > ----- Original Message -----
                                        > > From: Tim Condon
                                        > > To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                                        > > Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 6:01 PM
                                        > > Subject: Re: [FSP] Pls Digg... CBS picked this up
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > So long as your activity doesn't aggress against anyone else or their
                                        > > co-equal right to do what they want without aggressing against you, yes.
                                        > > Appropriateness isn't the measure of whether other people disapprove, or
                                        > > are
                                        > > made uncomfortable. And it is *never* inappropriate to openly exercise a
                                        > > specific right that is guaranteed in the U.S. Constitution. In fact, it
                                        > is
                                        > > absolutely necessary that people exercise such rights openly; such
                                        > actions
                                        > > should be encouraged, or such rights will come to be frowned upon, and
                                        > > even
                                        > > judged "inappropriate" in many---and eventually all---circumstances.
                                        > > Exhibit
                                        > > #1: The Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms, which William
                                        > Kostic
                                        > > was peaceably and entirely legitimately exercising. I wish I had been
                                        > > present to support him by keeping and bearing my own openly-carried
                                        > > side-arm, the right to which is guaranteed by the above-said Second
                                        > > Amendment. ---Tim Condon (who is a lawyer)
                                        > >
                                        > > On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 11:55 AM, Carol Moore/Secession.Net <
                                        > > contacts@...> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > > It would be perfectly legal for me to wear a big
                                        > > > fake breasts prop to speak up for nudists rights
                                        > > > on private property, but would it be appropriate
                                        > > > at every libertarian protest??
                                        > > >
                                        > > > GTriest wrote:
                                        > > > > I think Chris Matthews had a point though, many things are perfectly
                                        > > > legal but simply inappropriate.
                                        > > > > The sign of course refers to blood and revolution, etc.
                                        > > > > I think it might have been too close to other implications to have
                                        > > been
                                        > > > appropriate. Sure a judgment call, but that is my opinion.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > If this was the president campaigning for an anti-gun law, then it
                                        > > might
                                        > > > be appropriate.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Gary T
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                        > > > > From: Chris Lawless
                                        > > > > To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                                        > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:36 PM
                                        > > > > Subject: Re: [FSP] Pls Digg... CBS picked this up
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Carol I don't really know who you are directing that at.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > In NH it is 100% legal to have a gun in then open. (see the video of
                                        > > > the police officer and William)
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > I won't speak for William but I know that many of the people that I
                                        > > was
                                        > > > with at the 'rally' were also protesting President Bush in the past.
                                        > In
                                        > > > fact the Obama fans couldn't figure us out because we were anti
                                        > > Government
                                        > > > healthcare, anti occupation of Iraq, expansion of Afghan war, anti
                                        > Bush
                                        > > etc
                                        > > > etc.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > --- On Wed, 8/12/09, Carol Moore/Secession.Net <
                                        > > contacts@...>
                                        > > > wrote:
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > From: Carol Moore/Secession.Net <contacts@...>
                                        > > > > Subject: Re: [FSP] Pls Digg... CBS picked this up
                                        > > > > To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                                        > > > > Date: Wednesday, August 12, 2009, 6:20 AM
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > And let's not forget "Gun toting to prove you are a "real man" can
                                        > > ruin
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > a revolution."
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Not to mention where was he when Bush was stealing all our
                                        > liberties,
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > which Obama is merely expanding upon?? And where were the
                                        > Republicans
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > in producing a free market in health care the 6 years they
                                        > controlled
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > presidency, house and senate? Where's their united front on such an
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > alternative now? Could it be: "Sold to the insurance industry that
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > doesn't want competition, be it from lower priced individual plans
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > (which would flourish if individuals got same tax break as business)
                                        > > > and
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > doesn't want cross-state competition, which currently is illegal.
                                        > Just
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > for starters...
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Chris Lawless wrote:
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > > http://digg. com/politics/ Gun_Toting_ Man_Draws_ Scrutiny_
                                        > > > Outside_Obama_ Town_Hall
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > > and please forward
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > > ************ ********* ********* ********* *
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > > I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no
                                        > > > vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of
                                        > > justice
                                        > > > is no virtue!
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > > --
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Carol Moore in DC
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > http://carolmoore. net/
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > http://carolmoorere port.blogspot. com/
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > http://youtube. com/carolmoore
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > http://secession. net
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > http://stopthewarno w.net
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > http://whatwouldgan dhido.net
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > http://radicalbutto ns.com
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > NOTICE: Due to Presidential Executive Orders,
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > the National Security Agency may have read this
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > email without judicial or legislative oversight
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > or warning, warrant, or notice. You have no
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > recourse nor protection save to secede from the union.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > ------------------------------------
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > --
                                        > > > Carol Moore in DC
                                        > > > http://carolmoore.net/
                                        > > > http://carolmoorereport.blogspot.com/
                                        > > > http://youtube.com/carolmoore
                                        > > > http://secession.net
                                        > > > http://stopthewarnow.net
                                        > > > http://whatwouldgandhido.net
                                        > > > http://radicalbuttons.com
                                        > > >
                                        > > > NOTICE: Due to Presidential Executive Orders,
                                        > > > the National Security Agency may have read this
                                        > > > email without judicial or legislative oversight
                                        > > > or warning, warrant, or notice. You have no
                                        > > > recourse nor protection save to secede from the union.
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > ------------------------------------
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > ------------------------------------
                                        > >
                                        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > ------------------------------------
                                        >
                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >

                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • John David Galt
                                        ... That s a good point on several levels. Libertarians will send the wrong message if we seek to take over or disrupt others political meetings, especially
                                        Message 19 of 27 , Aug 19, 2009
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 3:14 AM, GaryT <garyonthenet@...> wrote:
                                          > Well, don't take this personally, but I think that is extremist thinking
                                          > and can lead to foolish behavior.
                                          >
                                          > Once again, as I said before, there are many things you may have legal
                                          > right to do, but may be completely socially inappropriate nonetheless.

                                          That's a good point on several levels. Libertarians will send the wrong
                                          message if we seek to take over or disrupt others' political meetings,
                                          especially if doing so involves violating private property. We need to
                                          be above that and be seen to be above it, even if our foes are not.
                                          Especially if our foes are not. This political struggle will be won or
                                          lost in public opinion, and most of the public will only see the short
                                          "sound bite" or video clip that portrays us in the worst light possible.

                                          Then again, if some accepted social norm (such as non-acceptance of
                                          openly carried guns) is ever going to change, the only way it can change
                                          is for somebody, and then several people, to flagrantly violate that
                                          norm, even if it means getting arrested (and going peaceably, though
                                          maybe loudly). Remember, Rosa Parks' refusal to move was impolite and
                                          "inappropriate", then. And if she hadn't done it, that would still be
                                          true today.
                                        • Jon Isaac
                                          that hard-core libertarians and anarchists are even debating the propriety of arming in public is a great indication of how f***d we are. Until most Americans
                                          Message 20 of 27 , Aug 20, 2009
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            that hard-core libertarians and anarchists are even debating the
                                            propriety of arming in public is a great indication of how f***d we
                                            are. Until most Americans are doing likewise, of course it won't be
                                            "proper" or "wise" to do so. Extremisms such as abolitionism, racial
                                            equality, and even democracy are now norms. I wonder how they became
                                            accepted?

                                            Rosa Parks knew something we have long forgotten.





                                            On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 2:16 AM, John David
                                            Galt<jdg@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 3:14 AM, GaryT <garyonthenet@...> wrote:
                                            >> Well, don't take this personally, but I think that is extremist thinking
                                            >> and can lead to foolish behavior.
                                            >>
                                            >> Once again, as I said before, there are many things you may have legal
                                            >> right to do, but may be completely socially inappropriate nonetheless.
                                            >
                                            > That's a good point on several levels. Libertarians will send the wrong
                                            > message if we seek to take over or disrupt others' political meetings,
                                            > especially if doing so involves violating private property. We need to
                                            > be above that and be seen to be above it, even if our foes are not.
                                            > Especially if our foes are not. This political struggle will be won or
                                            > lost in public opinion, and most of the public will only see the short
                                            > "sound bite" or video clip that portrays us in the worst light possible.
                                            >
                                            > Then again, if some accepted social norm (such as non-acceptance of
                                            > openly carried guns) is ever going to change, the only way it can change
                                            > is for somebody, and then several people, to flagrantly violate that
                                            > norm, even if it means getting arrested (and going peaceably, though
                                            > maybe loudly). Remember, Rosa Parks' refusal to move was impolite and
                                            > "inappropriate", then. And if she hadn't done it, that would still be
                                            > true today.
                                            >
                                            >
                                          • GaryT
                                            I mostly concur with John s post. I think though that Rosa Park s behavior was on a level innately less inappropriate. Gary T ... From: John David Galt To:
                                            Message 21 of 27 , Aug 20, 2009
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              I mostly concur with John's post.

                                              I think though that Rosa Park's behavior was on a level innately less inappropriate.

                                              Gary T

                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              From: John David Galt
                                              To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 2:16 AM
                                              Subject: Re: [FSP] Pls Digg... CBS picked this up


                                              On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 3:14 AM, GaryT <garyonthenet@...> wrote:
                                              > Well, don't take this personally, but I think that is extremist thinking
                                              > and can lead to foolish behavior.
                                              >
                                              > Once again, as I said before, there are many things you may have legal
                                              > right to do, but may be completely socially inappropriate nonetheless.

                                              That's a good point on several levels. Libertarians will send the wrong
                                              message if we seek to take over or disrupt others' political meetings,
                                              especially if doing so involves violating private property. We need to
                                              be above that and be seen to be above it, even if our foes are not.
                                              Especially if our foes are not. This political struggle will be won or
                                              lost in public opinion, and most of the public will only see the short
                                              "sound bite" or video clip that portrays us in the worst light possible.

                                              Then again, if some accepted social norm (such as non-acceptance of
                                              openly carried guns) is ever going to change, the only way it can change
                                              is for somebody, and then several people, to flagrantly violate that
                                              norm, even if it means getting arrested (and going peaceably, though
                                              maybe loudly). Remember, Rosa Parks' refusal to move was impolite and
                                              "inappropriate", then. And if she hadn't done it, that would still be
                                              true today.




                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • Jeremy J. Olson
                                              Well said. Some people aren t only trying to demonstrate the existence of their rights, but change our culture in a more liberty-oriented direction, too. When
                                              Message 22 of 27 , Aug 20, 2009
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Well said. Some people aren't only trying to demonstrate the existence
                                                of their rights, but change our culture in a more liberty-oriented
                                                direction, too. When doing so, sometimes doing something that is
                                                downright *IN*appropriate or shocking is exactly what's necessary in
                                                order to succeed.

                                                At 2009-08-20T11:41:35-0400, <jon.isaac@...> wrote:

                                                > that hard-core libertarians and anarchists are even debating the
                                                > propriety of arming in public is a great indication of how f***d we
                                                > are. Until most Americans are doing likewise, of course it won't be
                                                > "proper" or "wise" to do so. Extremisms such as abolitionism, racial
                                                > equality, and even democracy are now norms. I wonder how they became
                                                > accepted?
                                                >
                                                > Rosa Parks knew something we have long forgotten.
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 2:16 AM, John David
                                                > Galt<jdg@...> wrote:
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 3:14 AM, GaryT <garyonthenet@...> wrote:
                                                > >> Well, don't take this personally, but I think that is extremist thinking
                                                > >> and can lead to foolish behavior.
                                                > >>
                                                > >> Once again, as I said before, there are many things you may have legal
                                                > >> right to do, but may be completely socially inappropriate nonetheless.
                                                > >
                                                > > That's a good point on several levels. Libertarians will send the wrong
                                                > > message if we seek to take over or disrupt others' political meetings,
                                                > > especially if doing so involves violating private property. We need to
                                                > > be above that and be seen to be above it, even if our foes are not.
                                                > > Especially if our foes are not. This political struggle will be won or
                                                > > lost in public opinion, and most of the public will only see the short
                                                > > "sound bite" or video clip that portrays us in the worst light possible.
                                                > >
                                                > > Then again, if some accepted social norm (such as non-acceptance of
                                                > > openly carried guns) is ever going to change, the only way it can change
                                                > > is for somebody, and then several people, to flagrantly violate that
                                                > > norm, even if it means getting arrested (and going peaceably, though
                                                > > maybe loudly). Remember, Rosa Parks' refusal to move was impolite and
                                                > > "inappropriate", then. And if she hadn't done it, that would still be
                                                > > true today.
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > ------------------------------------
                                                >
                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                --
                                                Jeremy J. Olson
                                              • GTriest
                                                Well personally I don t have a strong opinion about it, because if someone wants to exercise their legal rights at the sacrifice/exchange of their circle of
                                                Message 23 of 27 , Aug 20, 2009
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  Well personally I don't have a strong opinion about it, because if someone wants to exercise their legal rights at the sacrifice/exchange of their circle of friends, then so be it.

                                                  I would not presume to tell someone they should or shouldn't do something they feel strongly about, especially if it would be a libertarian right.

                                                  My concern was, as a Libertarian activist, the image it sends to non-initiated proto-libertarians or those who have libertarian sympathies. "Do we want to invite libertarians to this political function? Even though they would be in support of it, and we like there position on it, are they just too socially inept to be comfortably invited"

                                                  Libertarianism teaches us what is right politically and legally, but it has little to say about how we interact intimately with our circle of friends and acquaintences.

                                                  Gary T




                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                  From: Jeremy J. Olson
                                                  To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 3:28 PM
                                                  Subject: Re: [FSP] Pls Digg... CBS picked this up


                                                  Well said. Some people aren't only trying to demonstrate the existence
                                                  of their rights, but change our culture in a more liberty-oriented
                                                  direction, too. When doing so, sometimes doing something that is
                                                  downright *IN*appropriate or shocking is exactly what's necessary in
                                                  order to succeed.

                                                  At 2009-08-20T11:41:35-0400, <jon.isaac@...> wrote:

                                                  > that hard-core libertarians and anarchists are even debating the
                                                  > propriety of arming in public is a great indication of how f***d we
                                                  > are. Until most Americans are doing likewise, of course it won't be
                                                  > "proper" or "wise" to do so. Extremisms such as abolitionism, racial
                                                  > equality, and even democracy are now norms. I wonder how they became
                                                  > accepted?
                                                  >
                                                  > Rosa Parks knew something we have long forgotten.
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 2:16 AM, John David
                                                  > Galt<jdg@...> wrote:
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > > On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 3:14 AM, GaryT <garyonthenet@...> wrote:
                                                  > >> Well, don't take this personally, but I think that is extremist thinking
                                                  > >> and can lead to foolish behavior.
                                                  > >>
                                                  > >> Once again, as I said before, there are many things you may have legal
                                                  > >> right to do, but may be completely socially inappropriate nonetheless.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > That's a good point on several levels. Libertarians will send the wrong
                                                  > > message if we seek to take over or disrupt others' political meetings,
                                                  > > especially if doing so involves violating private property. We need to
                                                  > > be above that and be seen to be above it, even if our foes are not.
                                                  > > Especially if our foes are not. This political struggle will be won or
                                                  > > lost in public opinion, and most of the public will only see the short
                                                  > > "sound bite" or video clip that portrays us in the worst light possible.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Then again, if some accepted social norm (such as non-acceptance of
                                                  > > openly carried guns) is ever going to change, the only way it can change
                                                  > > is for somebody, and then several people, to flagrantly violate that
                                                  > > norm, even if it means getting arrested (and going peaceably, though
                                                  > > maybe loudly). Remember, Rosa Parks' refusal to move was impolite and
                                                  > > "inappropriate", then. And if she hadn't done it, that would still be
                                                  > > true today.
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > ------------------------------------
                                                  >
                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  --
                                                  Jeremy J. Olson




                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                • Jeremy J. Olson
                                                  The image concern is certainly a valid concern from a strategic standpoint. We don t want to overly alienate people who we might be able to convert. But I
                                                  Message 24 of 27 , Aug 21, 2009
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    The image concern is certainly a valid concern from a strategic
                                                    standpoint. We don't want to overly alienate people who we might be
                                                    able to convert. But I won't go so far as to choose not to do something
                                                    I'd like to do, in an effort to seek the approval of others.

                                                    And, I think that the recognition that someone has a right to do
                                                    something, regardless of one's own opinion on the matter, is one of the
                                                    first steps toward libertarianism. It *is* libertarianism. A belief in
                                                    freedom isn't only a political or legal standpoint, it's an entire
                                                    world-view. If someone's going around condemning others for harmless,
                                                    victimless activities... they're not on the way to becoming a
                                                    libertarian. They're a conservative or a liberal or whatever, who may
                                                    just happen to have a libertarian *position* on this-or-that issue, but
                                                    if they can't accept the idea of tolerating others' harmless choices...
                                                    they're not a libertarian.

                                                    And as for friends, well, I define who're my friends in basically those
                                                    terms. Those who have any sort of judgmental attitude toward victimless
                                                    activities that I choose to engage in? Not my friends. Or no longer my
                                                    friends if they start doing so.

                                                    At 2009-08-20T17:54:36-0400, <garyonthenet@...> wrote:

                                                    > Well personally I don't have a strong opinion about it, because if
                                                    > someone wants to exercise their legal rights at the sacrifice/exchange
                                                    > of their circle of friends, then so be it.
                                                    >
                                                    > I would not presume to tell someone they should or shouldn't do
                                                    > something they feel strongly about, especially if it would be a
                                                    > libertarian right.
                                                    >
                                                    > My concern was, as a Libertarian activist, the image it sends to
                                                    > non-initiated proto-libertarians or those who have libertarian
                                                    > sympathies. "Do we want to invite libertarians to this political
                                                    > function? Even though they would be in support of it, and we like there
                                                    > position on it, are they just too socially inept to be comfortably
                                                    > invited"
                                                    >
                                                    > Libertarianism teaches us what is right politically and legally, but
                                                    > it has little to say about how we interact intimately with our circle
                                                    > of friends and acquaintences.

                                                    --
                                                    Jeremy J. Olson
                                                  • Carol Moore/Secession.Net
                                                    Well, I guess Obama has us naysayers at least partially overruled :-) _____
                                                    Message 25 of 27 , Aug 24, 2009
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      Well, I guess Obama has us naysayers at least partially overruled :-)
                                                      _____
                                                      http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/18/AR2009081803416.html?wpisrc=newsletter

                                                      washingtonpost.com
                                                      White House Backs Right to Arms Outside Obama Events
                                                      But Some Fear Health Talks Will Spark Violence

                                                      By Alexi Mostrous
                                                      Washington Post Staff Writer
                                                      Wednesday, August 19, 2009

                                                      Armed men seen mixing with protesters outside recent events held by
                                                      President Obama acted within the law, the White House said Tuesday,
                                                      attempting to allay fears of a security threat.

                                                      Robert Gibbs, the White House press secretary, said people are entitled
                                                      to carry weapons outside such events if local laws allow it. "There are
                                                      laws that govern firearms that are done state or locally," he said.
                                                      "Those laws don't change when the president comes to your state or
                                                      locality."

                                                      Anti-gun campaigners disagreed with Gibbs's comments, voicing fears that
                                                      volatile debates over health-care reform are more likely to turn violent
                                                      if gun control is not enforced.

                                                      "What Gibbs said is wrong," said Paul Helmke, president of the Brady
                                                      Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence. "Individuals carrying loaded weapons
                                                      at these events require constant attention from police and Secret
                                                      Service officers. It's crazy to bring a gun to these events. It
                                                      endangers everybody."

                                                      The past week has seen a spate of men carrying firearms while milling
                                                      outside meetings Obama has held to defend his health-care reform effort.
                                                      On Monday, a man with an AR-15 semiautomatic assault rifle strapped to
                                                      his shoulder was outside a veterans' event in Phoenix. He was one of a
                                                      dozen men who reportedly had guns outside the forum.

                                                      Phoenix police made no arrests, saying Arizona law allows weapons to be
                                                      carried in the open.

                                                      Last week, a man with a gun strapped to his leg held a sign outside an
                                                      Obama town hall meeting in Portsmouth, N.H., that read: "It's time to
                                                      water the tree of liberty."

                                                      Before the same meeting, Richard Terry Young, a New Hampshire resident,
                                                      was arrested by the Secret Service for allegedly having a loaded,
                                                      unlicensed gun in his car. Young was stopped inside the school where
                                                      Obama held the forum, having reportedly sneaked past a security perimeter.

                                                      Ed Donovan, a spokesman for the Secret Service, said incidents of
                                                      firearms being carried outside presidential events are a "relatively new
                                                      phenomenon." But he said the president's safety is not being jeopardized.

                                                      "We're well aware of the subjects that are showing up at these events
                                                      with firearms," he said. "We work closely with local law enforcement to
                                                      make sure that their very strict laws on gun permits are administered.
                                                      These people weren't ticketed for events and wouldn't have been allowed
                                                      inside and weren't in a position outside to offer a threat." The
                                                      immediate area occupied by Obama on such trips is considered a federal
                                                      site where weapons are not permitted, Donovan said.

                                                      Lawmakers holding tense town hall debates about health-care reform also
                                                      have seen armed constituents. The staff of some, including Rep. Stephen
                                                      I. Cohen (D-Tenn.), have taken precautions to guard against guns being
                                                      brought into gatherings.

                                                      "We asked everyone with firearms to check them with the sheriff before
                                                      we began the meeting," said Marilyn Dillihay, Cohen's chief of staff,
                                                      describing an Aug. 8 town hall debate in Memphis. "We've never done that
                                                      before." The decision was made because the number of people at the event
                                                      and the subject of the debate created a "potentially a volatile
                                                      situation," she said.

                                                      "Obviously there's a lot of emotion with health care," Dillihay said.
                                                      "Feelings are very tense, and we were just trying to make sure that
                                                      things were safe."

                                                      One man at the meeting disclosed that he had a firearm and complied with
                                                      a request to put it in his vehicle, she said.

                                                      Other lawmakers said they intended to take no precautions in future town
                                                      hall meetings or to ask the advice of local law enforcement. C.J.
                                                      Karamargin, a spokesman for Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.), said the
                                                      congresswoman will "balance rights guaranteed under the Second Amendment
                                                      and providing her constituents with a safe forum to share their views."

                                                      Brian Levin, director of the Center for the Study of Hate and Extremism
                                                      at California State University at San Bernardino, said concern about
                                                      whether Obama will enact new gun restrictions may also be contributing
                                                      to the tense political climate.

                                                      "There's a lot of anger out there," Levin said.

                                                      "A key thing that's been bubbling under the surface is what's going on
                                                      with President Obama and guns," he said. "There is a real question mark
                                                      not only for extremists but for gun rights advocates in the mainstream."

                                                      Staff writer Carrie Johnson contributed to this report.

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