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The New Hamsphire state legislature recently rejected a similar bill....

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  • Tim Condon
    QUESTION: What does the state of Texas have that New Hampshire does not? ANSWER: Apparently two things: One, an understanding of the United States
    Message 1 of 17 , Apr 15, 2009
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      QUESTION: What does the state of Texas have that New Hampshire does not?
      ANSWER: Apparently two things: One, an understanding of the United States
      Constitution, and two, the willingness to insist on compliance with it.
      ---Tim Condon





      <http://www.drudgereport.com/>
      *WAKE UP CALL: TEXAS GOV. BACKS RESOLUTION AFFIRMING SOVEREIGNTY
      Tue Apr 14 2009 08:44:54 ET

      AUSTIN � Gov. Rick Perry joined state Rep. Brandon Creighton and sponsors of
      House Concurrent Resolution (HCR) 50 in support of states� rights under the
      10th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

      �I believe that our federal government has become oppressive in its size,
      its intrusion into the lives of our citizens, and its interference with the
      affairs of our state,� Gov. Perry said. �That is why I am here today to
      express my unwavering support for efforts all across our country to reaffirm
      the states� rights affirmed by the Tenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.
      I believe that returning to the letter and spirit of the U.S. Constitution
      and its essential 10th Amendment will free our state from undue regulations,
      and ultimately strengthen our Union.�

      Perry continued: "Millions of Texans are tired of Washington, DC trying to
      come down here to tell us how to run Texas."

      [VIDEO] <http://governor.state.tx.us/news/press-release/12227/>

      A number of recent federal proposals are not within the scope of the federal
      government�s constitutionally designated powers and impede the states� right
      to govern themselves. HCR 50 affirms that Texas claims sovereignty under the
      10th Amendment over all powers not otherwise granted to the federal
      government.

      It also designates that all compulsory federal legislation that requires
      states to comply under threat of civil or criminal penalties, or that
      requires states to pass legislation or lose federal funding, be prohibited
      or repealed.

      Developing...*


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Jason P Sorens
      ... I m not impressed. ;) http://reason.com/blog/show/132880.html
      Message 2 of 17 , Apr 15, 2009
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        --- In freestateproject@yahoogroups.com, Tim Condon <tim@...> wrote:
        >
        > QUESTION: What does the state of Texas have that New Hampshire does not?
        > ANSWER: Apparently two things: One, an understanding of the United States
        > Constitution, and two, the willingness to insist on compliance with it.
        > ---Tim Condon

        I'm not impressed. ;)

        http://reason.com/blog/show/132880.html
      • GTriest
        VERY interesting, and show some balls. Really now, NH should have the same fortitude, considering its constitution and, at least, lip service to the spirit of
        Message 3 of 17 , Apr 16, 2009
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          VERY interesting, and show some balls.

          Really now, NH should have the same fortitude, considering its constitution
          and, at least, lip service to the spirit of liberty and independence.

          Amazing that Texas did it, considering how oppressive that govt can be.

          Gary T


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Tim Condon" <tim@...>
          To: "FS FSP" <freestateproject@yahoogroups.com>; "RLCNH"
          <RLCNH@yahoogroups.com>; "NH Live Free or Die"
          <nhlivefreeordie@yahoogroups.com>;
          <freedom_in_new_hampshire@yahoogroups.com>; "Freestaters Southern
          California" <socalfsp@yahoogroups.com>; "freestaters-Northern Calif."
          <freestaters_nca@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 6:46 AM
          Subject: [FSP] The New Hamsphire state legislature recently rejected a
          similar bill....


          QUESTION: What does the state of Texas have that New Hampshire does not?
          ANSWER: Apparently two things: One, an understanding of the United States
          Constitution, and two, the willingness to insist on compliance with it.
          ---Tim Condon





          <http://www.drudgereport.com/>
          *WAKE UP CALL: TEXAS GOV. BACKS RESOLUTION AFFIRMING SOVEREIGNTY
          Tue Apr 14 2009 08:44:54 ET

          AUSTIN - Gov. Rick Perry joined state Rep. Brandon Creighton and sponsors of
          House Concurrent Resolution (HCR) 50 in support of states' rights under the
          10th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

          "I believe that our federal government has become oppressive in its size,
          its intrusion into the lives of our citizens, and its interference with the
          affairs of our state," Gov. Perry said. "That is why I am here today to
          express my unwavering support for efforts all across our country to reaffirm
          the states' rights affirmed by the Tenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.
          I believe that returning to the letter and spirit of the U.S. Constitution
          and its essential 10th Amendment will free our state from undue regulations,
          and ultimately strengthen our Union."

          Perry continued: "Millions of Texans are tired of Washington, DC trying to
          come down here to tell us how to run Texas."

          [VIDEO] <http://governor.state.tx.us/news/press-release/12227/>

          A number of recent federal proposals are not within the scope of the federal
          government's constitutionally designated powers and impede the states' right
          to govern themselves. HCR 50 affirms that Texas claims sovereignty under the
          10th Amendment over all powers not otherwise granted to the federal
          government.

          It also designates that all compulsory federal legislation that requires
          states to comply under threat of civil or criminal penalties, or that
          requires states to pass legislation or lose federal funding, be prohibited
          or repealed.

          Developing...*


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



          ------------------------------------

          Yahoo! Groups Links
        • GTriest
          I am very impressed. !:-0 ... From: Jason P Sorens To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 8:49 AM Subject: [FSP] Re: The New
          Message 4 of 17 , Apr 16, 2009
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            I am very impressed.

            !:-0

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Jason P Sorens
            To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 8:49 AM
            Subject: [FSP] Re: The New Hamsphire state legislature recently rejected a similar bill....





            --- In freestateproject@yahoogroups.com, Tim Condon <tim@...> wrote:
            >
            > QUESTION: What does the state of Texas have that New Hampshire does not?
            > ANSWER: Apparently two things: One, an understanding of the United States
            > Constitution, and two, the willingness to insist on compliance with it.
            > ---Tim Condon

            I'm not impressed. ;)

            http://reason.com/blog/show/132880.html





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Jason P Sorens
            Nah, it s just a few establishment Republican hacks finding their alleged principles now that there s a Democrat in the Oval Office. The next time I hear a
            Message 5 of 17 , Apr 16, 2009
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              Nah, it's just a few establishment Republican hacks finding their alleged "principles" now that there's a Democrat in the Oval Office. The next time I hear a so-called "conservative" bloviate about freedom or liberty, I think I might barf. These are the guys who defended a president's unilateral right to surveil, kidnap, imprison, and torture American citizens without no judicial oversight. I'll take Barack Obama's socialism-lite over Texas Republicans' really freaking scary authoritarianism any day of the week...

              --- In freestateproject@yahoogroups.com, "GTriest" <garyonthenet@...> wrote:
              >
              > VERY interesting, and show some balls.
              >
              > Really now, NH should have the same fortitude, considering its constitution
              > and, at least, lip service to the spirit of liberty and independence.
              >
              > Amazing that Texas did it, considering how oppressive that govt can be.
              >
              > Gary T
              >
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: "Tim Condon" <tim@...>
              > To: "FS FSP" <freestateproject@yahoogroups.com>; "RLCNH"
              > <RLCNH@yahoogroups.com>; "NH Live Free or Die"
              > <nhlivefreeordie@yahoogroups.com>;
              > <freedom_in_new_hampshire@yahoogroups.com>; "Freestaters Southern
              > California" <socalfsp@yahoogroups.com>; "freestaters-Northern Calif."
              > <freestaters_nca@yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 6:46 AM
              > Subject: [FSP] The New Hamsphire state legislature recently rejected a
              > similar bill....
              >
              >
              > QUESTION: What does the state of Texas have that New Hampshire does not?
              > ANSWER: Apparently two things: One, an understanding of the United States
              > Constitution, and two, the willingness to insist on compliance with it.
              > ---Tim Condon
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > <http://www.drudgereport.com/>
              > *WAKE UP CALL: TEXAS GOV. BACKS RESOLUTION AFFIRMING SOVEREIGNTY
              > Tue Apr 14 2009 08:44:54 ET
              >
              > AUSTIN - Gov. Rick Perry joined state Rep. Brandon Creighton and sponsors of
              > House Concurrent Resolution (HCR) 50 in support of states' rights under the
              > 10th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.
              >
              > "I believe that our federal government has become oppressive in its size,
              > its intrusion into the lives of our citizens, and its interference with the
              > affairs of our state," Gov. Perry said. "That is why I am here today to
              > express my unwavering support for efforts all across our country to reaffirm
              > the states' rights affirmed by the Tenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.
              > I believe that returning to the letter and spirit of the U.S. Constitution
              > and its essential 10th Amendment will free our state from undue regulations,
              > and ultimately strengthen our Union."
              >
              > Perry continued: "Millions of Texans are tired of Washington, DC trying to
              > come down here to tell us how to run Texas."
              >
              > [VIDEO] <http://governor.state.tx.us/news/press-release/12227/>
              >
              > A number of recent federal proposals are not within the scope of the federal
              > government's constitutionally designated powers and impede the states' right
              > to govern themselves. HCR 50 affirms that Texas claims sovereignty under the
              > 10th Amendment over all powers not otherwise granted to the federal
              > government.
              >
              > It also designates that all compulsory federal legislation that requires
              > states to comply under threat of civil or criminal penalties, or that
              > requires states to pass legislation or lose federal funding, be prohibited
              > or repealed.
              >
              > Developing...*
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
            • Thom
              AMEN, brother!!!! ... From: Jason P Sorens Subject: Re: [FSP] The New Hamsphire state legislature recently rejected a similar bill....
              Message 6 of 17 , Apr 16, 2009
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                AMEN, brother!!!!

                --- On Thu, 4/16/09, Jason P Sorens <jsorens@...> wrote:


                From: Jason P Sorens <jsorens@...>
                Subject: Re: [FSP] The New Hamsphire state legislature recently rejected a similar bill....
                To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Thursday, April 16, 2009, 4:09 PM









                Nah, it's just a few establishment Republican hacks finding their alleged "principles" now that there's a Democrat in the Oval Office. The next time I hear a so-called "conservative" bloviate about freedom or liberty, I think I might barf. These are the guys who defended a president's unilateral right to surveil, kidnap, imprison, and torture American citizens without no judicial oversight. I'll take Barack Obama's socialism-lite over Texas Republicans' really freaking scary authoritarianism any day of the week...

                --- In freestateproject@ yahoogroups. com, "GTriest" <garyonthenet@ ...> wrote:
                >
                > VERY interesting, and show some balls.
                >
                > Really now, NH should have the same fortitude, considering its constitution
                > and, at least, lip service to the spirit of liberty and independence.
                >
                > Amazing that Texas did it, considering how oppressive that govt can be.
                >
                > Gary T
                >
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: "Tim Condon" <tim@...>
                > To: "FS FSP" <freestateproject@ yahoogroups. com>; "RLCNH"
                > <RLCNH@yahoogroups. com>; "NH Live Free or Die"
                > <nhlivefreeordie@ yahoogroups. com>;
                > <freedom_in_new_ hampshire@ yahoogroups. com>; "Freestaters Southern
                > California" <socalfsp@yahoogroup s.com>; "freestaters- Northern Calif."
                > <freestaters_ nca@yahoogroups. com>
                > Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 6:46 AM
                > Subject: [FSP] The New Hamsphire state legislature recently rejected a
                > similar bill....
                >
                >
                > QUESTION: What does the state of Texas have that New Hampshire does not?
                > ANSWER: Apparently two things: One, an understanding of the United States
                > Constitution, and two, the willingness to insist on compliance with it.
                > ---Tim Condon
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > <http://www.drudgere port.com/>
                > *WAKE UP CALL: TEXAS GOV. BACKS RESOLUTION AFFIRMING SOVEREIGNTY
                > Tue Apr 14 2009 08:44:54 ET
                >
                > AUSTIN - Gov. Rick Perry joined state Rep. Brandon Creighton and sponsors of
                > House Concurrent Resolution (HCR) 50 in support of states' rights under the
                > 10th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.
                >
                > "I believe that our federal government has become oppressive in its size,
                > its intrusion into the lives of our citizens, and its interference with the
                > affairs of our state," Gov. Perry said. "That is why I am here today to
                > express my unwavering support for efforts all across our country to reaffirm
                > the states' rights affirmed by the Tenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.
                > I believe that returning to the letter and spirit of the U.S. Constitution
                > and its essential 10th Amendment will free our state from undue regulations,
                > and ultimately strengthen our Union."
                >
                > Perry continued: "Millions of Texans are tired of Washington, DC trying to
                > come down here to tell us how to run Texas."
                >
                > [VIDEO] <http://governor. state.tx. us/news/press- release/12227/>
                >
                > A number of recent federal proposals are not within the scope of the federal
                > government's constitutionally designated powers and impede the states' right
                > to govern themselves. HCR 50 affirms that Texas claims sovereignty under the
                > 10th Amendment over all powers not otherwise granted to the federal
                > government.
                >
                > It also designates that all compulsory federal legislation that requires
                > states to comply under threat of civil or criminal penalties, or that
                > requires states to pass legislation or lose federal funding, be prohibited
                > or repealed.
                >
                > Developing.. .*
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------ --------- --------- ------
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
















                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Tim Condon
                Here are some facts about Rick Perry from Wikipedia. Perry is clearly a party hack who is conservative in the same way that Richard Nixon, George H.W.
                Message 7 of 17 , Apr 16, 2009
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                  Here are some facts about Rick Perry from Wikipedia. Perry is clearly a
                  "party hack" who is "conservative" in the same way that Richard Nixon,
                  George H.W. Bush, George W. Bush, and John McCain were "conservatives."
                  Perry's out. --Tim Condon


                  Early in his term as governor Perry worked to make health care more
                  accessible. He pushed through the State Children's Health Insurance
                  Program<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Children%27s_Health_Insurance_Program>
                  designed
                  to insure 500,000 children.[*citation
                  needed<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed>
                  *] and convinced the state Legislature to increase health funding by $6
                  billion.[*citation
                  needed<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed>
                  *] Some of these programs have since faced funding problems. He also
                  increased school funding prior to the 2002 election and created new
                  scholarship <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scholarship> programs to help
                  needy children, including $300 million for the Texas GRANT Scholarship
                  Program.[*citation
                  needed<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed>
                  *]Some $9 billion was allocated to Texas public schools, colleges, and
                  universities and combined with a new emphasis on accountability for both
                  teachers and students.[*citation
                  needed<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed>
                  *]

                  Perry's lieutenant governor and governor campaigns focused on a tough stance
                  on crime <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime>. In June 2002, he
                  vetoed<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veto> a
                  ban on the execution <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_penalty> ofmentally
                  retarded <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_retardation> inmates. He has
                  also supported block grants <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Block_grant> for
                  crime programs.

                  Fiscal issues

                  Perry, a proclaimed proponent of fiscal
                  conservatism<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_conservatism#Fiscal_conservatism>,
                  has often campaigned on tax reform
                  <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_reform> and
                  job growth. Perry resisted state income
                  taxes<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax>
                  and sales tax <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sales_tax> increases, protected
                  the state's "Rainy Day fund",
                  balanced<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balanced_budget> the
                  state budget as required by state law, and was reelected on a platform to
                  reduce property taxes <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Property_tax> that
                  exploded with the inflation <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation> of
                  property values in the late 1990s and the 21st century. However, shortly
                  after taking office, he backed down from the reduction of residential
                  property taxes. He has been
                  credited[*who?<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Avoid_weasel_words>
                  *] with attracting thousands of jobs to Texas in recent years.[*citation
                  needed <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed>*]

                  In early 2006 Perry angered many fiscal conservatives in his own party by
                  supporting an increase in the state franchise
                  tax<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franchise_tax> alongside
                  a property tax reform bill. Many organizations within the Republican Party
                  itself condemned Perry's tax bill, HB-3, and likened it to a "back door"
                  state income tax.[10]
                  <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Perry#cite_note-9> Perry
                  claimed in a statewide advertising campaign that the bill would save the
                  average taxpayer $2,000 in property taxes. Critics contended that Perry
                  inflated these numbers. The actual tax savings, they said, would average
                  only $150 per family.[11]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Perry#cite_note-10>
                  On February 2, 2007, Perry issued an executive
                  order<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_order> mandating
                  that Texas girls be vaccinated with
                  Gardasil<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gardasil>,
                  a newly approved drug manufactured by
                  Merck<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merck_%26_Co.,_Inc.> that
                  protects against some strains of the human papilloma
                  virus<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_papilloma_virus> which
                  causes cervical cancer <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cervical_Cancer>. The
                  move made national
                  headlines.[22]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Perry#cite_note-21>

                  Perry's move has been criticized by some social
                  conservatives<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_conservatives> and
                  some parents <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parents> due to concerns about
                  the moral implications of the vaccine and safety concerns. On February 22,
                  2007, a group of families sued in an attempt to block Gov. Perry's executive
                  order.[23] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Perry#cite_note-22> Several
                  financial connections between Merck and Rick Perry have been reported by
                  news outlets, such as a $6,000 campaign contribution, as well as Merck's
                  hiring of former Perry Chief of Staff Mike Toomey to handle its Texas lobby
                  work.[24] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Perry#cite_note-23>

                  Adding to the criticism of Perry's order is what is viewed by some as a high
                  price of the vaccine which is approximately
                  $US<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/$US>360
                  in Texas.[25] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Perry#cite_note-24>Gardasil
                  is a patent-restricted vaccine and Merck is the sole producer.

                  On May 9, 2007, Perry allowed a bill to go into law that would undo his
                  executive order.[26] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Perry#cite_note-25>
                  In October 2007, despite their political differences on many social issues,
                  he endorsed Rudy Giuliani <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudy_Giuliani> for
                  President. "Rudy Giuliani is the most prepared individual of either party to
                  be the next President... I'm not talkin' about any mayor, I'm talkin' about
                  America's Mayor," Perry
                  said.[51]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Perry#cite_note-50>Many
                  conjectured that, if Giuliani were elected, Perry might have been considered
                  for a position in the new President's cabinet, or perhaps the Vice
                  Presidency.[52] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Perry#cite_note-51> However,
                  Giuliani withdrew from the race on January 30, 2008 after failing to gain
                  support in early primaries. Both Giuliani and Perry immediately endorsed
                  Arizona Senator John McCain <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McCain> for
                  President.[ <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Perry#cite_note-52>



                  On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 4:09 PM, Jason P Sorens <jsorens@...> wrote:

                  >
                  > Nah, it's just a few establishment Republican hacks finding their alleged
                  > "principles" now that there's a Democrat in the Oval Office. The next time I
                  > hear a so-called "conservative" bloviate about freedom or liberty, I think I
                  > might barf. These are the guys who defended a president's unilateral right
                  > to surveil, kidnap, imprison, and torture American citizens without no
                  > judicial oversight. I'll take Barack Obama's socialism-lite over Texas
                  > Republicans' really freaking scary authoritarianism any day of the week...
                  >
                  > --- In freestateproject@yahoogroups.com, "GTriest" <garyonthenet@...>
                  > wrote:
                  > >
                  > > VERY interesting, and show some balls.
                  > >
                  > > Really now, NH should have the same fortitude, considering its
                  > constitution
                  > > and, at least, lip service to the spirit of liberty and independence.
                  > >
                  > > Amazing that Texas did it, considering how oppressive that govt can be.
                  > >
                  > > Gary T
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > From: "Tim Condon" <tim@...>
                  > > To: "FS FSP" <freestateproject@yahoogroups.com>; "RLCNH"
                  > > <RLCNH@yahoogroups.com>; "NH Live Free or Die"
                  > > <nhlivefreeordie@yahoogroups.com>;
                  > > <freedom_in_new_hampshire@yahoogroups.com>; "Freestaters Southern
                  > > California" <socalfsp@yahoogroups.com>; "freestaters-Northern Calif."
                  > > <freestaters_nca@yahoogroups.com>
                  > > Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 6:46 AM
                  > > Subject: [FSP] The New Hamsphire state legislature recently rejected a
                  > > similar bill....
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > QUESTION: What does the state of Texas have that New Hampshire does not?
                  > > ANSWER: Apparently two things: One, an understanding of the United States
                  > > Constitution, and two, the willingness to insist on compliance with it.
                  > > ---Tim Condon
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > <http://www.drudgereport.com/>
                  > > *WAKE UP CALL: TEXAS GOV. BACKS RESOLUTION AFFIRMING SOVEREIGNTY
                  > > Tue Apr 14 2009 08:44:54 ET
                  > >
                  > > AUSTIN - Gov. Rick Perry joined state Rep. Brandon Creighton and sponsors
                  > of
                  > > House Concurrent Resolution (HCR) 50 in support of states' rights under
                  > the
                  > > 10th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.
                  > >
                  > > "I believe that our federal government has become oppressive in its size,
                  > > its intrusion into the lives of our citizens, and its interference with
                  > the
                  > > affairs of our state," Gov. Perry said. "That is why I am here today to
                  > > express my unwavering support for efforts all across our country to
                  > reaffirm
                  > > the states' rights affirmed by the Tenth Amendment to the U.S.
                  > Constitution.
                  > > I believe that returning to the letter and spirit of the U.S.
                  > Constitution
                  > > and its essential 10th Amendment will free our state from undue
                  > regulations,
                  > > and ultimately strengthen our Union."
                  > >
                  > > Perry continued: "Millions of Texans are tired of Washington, DC trying
                  > to
                  > > come down here to tell us how to run Texas."
                  > >
                  > > [VIDEO] <http://governor.state.tx.us/news/press-release/12227/>
                  > >
                  > > A number of recent federal proposals are not within the scope of the
                  > federal
                  > > government's constitutionally designated powers and impede the states'
                  > right
                  > > to govern themselves. HCR 50 affirms that Texas claims sovereignty under
                  > the
                  > > 10th Amendment over all powers not otherwise granted to the federal
                  > > government.
                  > >
                  > > It also designates that all compulsory federal legislation that requires
                  > > states to comply under threat of civil or criminal penalties, or that
                  > > requires states to pass legislation or lose federal funding, be
                  > prohibited
                  > > or repealed.
                  > >
                  > > Developing...*
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ------------------------------------
                  > >
                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • GTriest
                  Maybe, but I have not heard such commentary from high officials in my lifetime. Whatever their motivation, now it is in the public psychesphere, and being
                  Message 8 of 17 , Apr 17, 2009
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Maybe, but I have not heard such commentary from high officials in my lifetime.
                    Whatever their motivation, now it is in the public psychesphere, and being seriously considered.

                    Gary T


                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Jason P Sorens
                    To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 4:09 PM
                    Subject: Re: [FSP] The New Hamsphire state legislature recently rejected a similar bill....






                    Nah, it's just a few establishment Republican hacks finding their alleged "principles" now that there's a Democrat in the Oval Office. The next time I hear a so-called "conservative" bloviate about freedom or liberty, I think I might barf. These are the guys who defended a president's unilateral right to surveil, kidnap, imprison, and torture American citizens without no judicial oversight. I'll take Barack Obama's socialism-lite over Texas Republicans' really freaking scary authoritarianism any day of the week...

                    --- In freestateproject@yahoogroups.com, "GTriest" <garyonthenet@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > VERY interesting, and show some balls.
                    >
                    > Really now, NH should have the same fortitude, considering its constitution
                    > and, at least, lip service to the spirit of liberty and independence.
                    >
                    > Amazing that Texas did it, considering how oppressive that govt can be.
                    >
                    > Gary T
                    >
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: "Tim Condon" <tim@...>
                    > To: "FS FSP" <freestateproject@yahoogroups.com>; "RLCNH"
                    > <RLCNH@yahoogroups.com>; "NH Live Free or Die"
                    > <nhlivefreeordie@yahoogroups.com>;
                    > <freedom_in_new_hampshire@yahoogroups.com>; "Freestaters Southern
                    > California" <socalfsp@yahoogroups.com>; "freestaters-Northern Calif."
                    > <freestaters_nca@yahoogroups.com>
                    > Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 6:46 AM
                    > Subject: [FSP] The New Hamsphire state legislature recently rejected a
                    > similar bill....
                    >
                    >
                    > QUESTION: What does the state of Texas have that New Hampshire does not?
                    > ANSWER: Apparently two things: One, an understanding of the United States
                    > Constitution, and two, the willingness to insist on compliance with it.
                    > ---Tim Condon
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > <http://www.drudgereport.com/>
                    > *WAKE UP CALL: TEXAS GOV. BACKS RESOLUTION AFFIRMING SOVEREIGNTY
                    > Tue Apr 14 2009 08:44:54 ET
                    >
                    > AUSTIN - Gov. Rick Perry joined state Rep. Brandon Creighton and sponsors of
                    > House Concurrent Resolution (HCR) 50 in support of states' rights under the
                    > 10th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.
                    >
                    > "I believe that our federal government has become oppressive in its size,
                    > its intrusion into the lives of our citizens, and its interference with the
                    > affairs of our state," Gov. Perry said. "That is why I am here today to
                    > express my unwavering support for efforts all across our country to reaffirm
                    > the states' rights affirmed by the Tenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.
                    > I believe that returning to the letter and spirit of the U.S. Constitution
                    > and its essential 10th Amendment will free our state from undue regulations,
                    > and ultimately strengthen our Union."
                    >
                    > Perry continued: "Millions of Texans are tired of Washington, DC trying to
                    > come down here to tell us how to run Texas."
                    >
                    > [VIDEO] <http://governor.state.tx.us/news/press-release/12227/>
                    >
                    > A number of recent federal proposals are not within the scope of the federal
                    > government's constitutionally designated powers and impede the states' right
                    > to govern themselves. HCR 50 affirms that Texas claims sovereignty under the
                    > 10th Amendment over all powers not otherwise granted to the federal
                    > government.
                    >
                    > It also designates that all compulsory federal legislation that requires
                    > states to comply under threat of civil or criminal penalties, or that
                    > requires states to pass legislation or lose federal funding, be prohibited
                    > or repealed.
                    >
                    > Developing...*
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Brian
                    Hi, I just joined the group and have not made a proper introduction. So, here I am about to comment before doing so. The Texas Republicans are scary
                    Message 9 of 17 , Apr 17, 2009
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                      Hi,

                      I just joined the group and have not made a proper introduction. So, here I am about to comment before doing so. The "Texas Republicans" are scary enough, but let us not forget that socialism has a hard time staying "lite." There are some examples of nations that are socialistic in nature and "lite" per se. Having lived in England for three years; I'd rather be there than China where surveillance, kidnap, imprison, and torture is part of their version.

                      Brian



                      Intro coming




                      ------

                      Nah, it's just a few establishment Republican hacks finding their alleged "principles" now that there's a Democrat in the Oval Office. The next time I hear a so-called "conservative" bloviate about freedom or liberty, I think I might barf. These are the guys who defended a president's unilateral right to surveil, kidnap, imprison, and torture American citizens without no judicial oversight. I'll take Barack Obama's socialism-lite over Texas Republicans' really freaking scary authoritarianism any day of the week...
                    • Kevin Craig
                      ... I dropped out of my local Tea Party when it turned into a showcase for Republicans against Obama -- the same Republicans who supported GWB s abuses.
                      Message 10 of 17 , Apr 17, 2009
                      • 0 Attachment
                        At 9:48 AM -0400 4/17/09, GTriest wrote:
                        >Maybe, but I have not heard such commentary from
                        >high officials in my lifetime.
                        >Whatever their motivation, now it is in the
                        >public psychesphere, and being seriously
                        >considered.

                        I dropped out of my local Tea Party when it
                        turned into a showcase for "Republicans against
                        Obama" -- the same Republicans who supported
                        GWB's abuses.

                        Perry is an opportunistic party hack, and he,
                        like many others who glommed onto Tea Party
                        events, are seeking to coöpt the forum for their
                        own ends by emulating some of the language.

                        My greatest hope is that the resulting publicity
                        overwhelms them and serious talk about major
                        reform can actually accomplish something.

                        (By "major reform", I include anything from a
                        peaceful return to the Constitution, to
                        secession, to outright revolution; hopefully the
                        former instead of the latter.)
                      • GaryT
                        Its the message that is important, not the messenger. Gary T ... From: Tim Condon To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 11:03 PM
                        Message 11 of 17 , Apr 17, 2009
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Its the message that is important, not the messenger.

                          Gary T

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Tim Condon
                          To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 11:03 PM
                          Subject: Re: [FSP] The New Hamsphire state legislature recently rejected a similar bill....





                          Here are some facts about Rick Perry from Wikipedia. Perry is clearly a
                          "party hack" who is "conservative" in the same way that Richard Nixon,
                          George H.W. Bush, George W. Bush, and John McCain were "conservatives."
                          Perry's out. --Tim Condon

                          Early in his term as governor Perry worked to make health care more
                          accessible. He pushed through the State Children's Health Insurance
                          Program<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Children%27s_Health_Insurance_Program>
                          designed
                          to insure 500,000 children.[*citation
                          needed<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed>
                          *] and convinced the state Legislature to increase health funding by $6
                          billion.[*citation
                          needed<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed>
                          *] Some of these programs have since faced funding problems. He also
                          increased school funding prior to the 2002 election and created new
                          scholarship <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scholarship> programs to help
                          needy children, including $300 million for the Texas GRANT Scholarship
                          Program.[*citation
                          needed<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed>
                          *]Some $9 billion was allocated to Texas public schools, colleges, and
                          universities and combined with a new emphasis on accountability for both
                          teachers and students.[*citation
                          needed<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed>
                          *]

                          Perry's lieutenant governor and governor campaigns focused on a tough stance
                          on crime <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime>. In June 2002, he
                          vetoed<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veto> a
                          ban on the execution <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_penalty> ofmentally
                          retarded <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_retardation> inmates. He has
                          also supported block grants <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Block_grant> for
                          crime programs.

                          Fiscal issues

                          Perry, a proclaimed proponent of fiscal
                          conservatism<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_conservatism#Fiscal_conservatism>,
                          has often campaigned on tax reform
                          <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_reform> and
                          job growth. Perry resisted state income
                          taxes<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax>
                          and sales tax <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sales_tax> increases, protected
                          the state's "Rainy Day fund",
                          balanced<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balanced_budget> the
                          state budget as required by state law, and was reelected on a platform to
                          reduce property taxes <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Property_tax> that
                          exploded with the inflation <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation> of
                          property values in the late 1990s and the 21st century. However, shortly
                          after taking office, he backed down from the reduction of residential
                          property taxes. He has been
                          credited[*who?<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Avoid_weasel_words>
                          *] with attracting thousands of jobs to Texas in recent years.[*citation
                          needed <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed>*]

                          In early 2006 Perry angered many fiscal conservatives in his own party by
                          supporting an increase in the state franchise
                          tax<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franchise_tax> alongside
                          a property tax reform bill. Many organizations within the Republican Party
                          itself condemned Perry's tax bill, HB-3, and likened it to a "back door"
                          state income tax.[10]
                          <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Perry#cite_note-9> Perry
                          claimed in a statewide advertising campaign that the bill would save the
                          average taxpayer $2,000 in property taxes. Critics contended that Perry
                          inflated these numbers. The actual tax savings, they said, would average
                          only $150 per family.[11]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Perry#cite_note-10>
                          On February 2, 2007, Perry issued an executive
                          order<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_order> mandating
                          that Texas girls be vaccinated with
                          Gardasil<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gardasil>,
                          a newly approved drug manufactured by
                          Merck<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merck_%26_Co.,_Inc.> that
                          protects against some strains of the human papilloma
                          virus<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_papilloma_virus> which
                          causes cervical cancer <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cervical_Cancer>. The
                          move made national
                          headlines.[22]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Perry#cite_note-21>

                          Perry's move has been criticized by some social
                          conservatives<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_conservatives> and
                          some parents <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parents> due to concerns about
                          the moral implications of the vaccine and safety concerns. On February 22,
                          2007, a group of families sued in an attempt to block Gov. Perry's executive
                          order.[23] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Perry#cite_note-22> Several
                          financial connections between Merck and Rick Perry have been reported by
                          news outlets, such as a $6,000 campaign contribution, as well as Merck's
                          hiring of former Perry Chief of Staff Mike Toomey to handle its Texas lobby
                          work.[24] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Perry#cite_note-23>

                          Adding to the criticism of Perry's order is what is viewed by some as a high
                          price of the vaccine which is approximately
                          $US<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/$US>360
                          in Texas.[25] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Perry#cite_note-24>Gardasil
                          is a patent-restricted vaccine and Merck is the sole producer.

                          On May 9, 2007, Perry allowed a bill to go into law that would undo his
                          executive order.[26] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Perry#cite_note-25>
                          In October 2007, despite their political differences on many social issues,
                          he endorsed Rudy Giuliani <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudy_Giuliani> for
                          President. "Rudy Giuliani is the most prepared individual of either party to
                          be the next President... I'm not talkin' about any mayor, I'm talkin' about
                          America's Mayor," Perry
                          said.[51]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Perry#cite_note-50>Many
                          conjectured that, if Giuliani were elected, Perry might have been considered
                          for a position in the new President's cabinet, or perhaps the Vice
                          Presidency.[52] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Perry#cite_note-51> However,
                          Giuliani withdrew from the race on January 30, 2008 after failing to gain
                          support in early primaries. Both Giuliani and Perry immediately endorsed
                          Arizona Senator John McCain <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McCain> for
                          President.[ <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Perry#cite_note-52>

                          On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 4:09 PM, Jason P Sorens <jsorens@...> wrote:

                          >
                          > Nah, it's just a few establishment Republican hacks finding their alleged
                          > "principles" now that there's a Democrat in the Oval Office. The next time I
                          > hear a so-called "conservative" bloviate about freedom or liberty, I think I
                          > might barf. These are the guys who defended a president's unilateral right
                          > to surveil, kidnap, imprison, and torture American citizens without no
                          > judicial oversight. I'll take Barack Obama's socialism-lite over Texas
                          > Republicans' really freaking scary authoritarianism any day of the week...
                          >
                          > --- In freestateproject@yahoogroups.com, "GTriest" <garyonthenet@...>
                          > wrote:
                          > >
                          > > VERY interesting, and show some balls.
                          > >
                          > > Really now, NH should have the same fortitude, considering its
                          > constitution
                          > > and, at least, lip service to the spirit of liberty and independence.
                          > >
                          > > Amazing that Texas did it, considering how oppressive that govt can be.
                          > >
                          > > Gary T
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > ----- Original Message -----
                          > > From: "Tim Condon" <tim@...>
                          > > To: "FS FSP" <freestateproject@yahoogroups.com>; "RLCNH"
                          > > <RLCNH@yahoogroups.com>; "NH Live Free or Die"
                          > > <nhlivefreeordie@yahoogroups.com>;
                          > > <freedom_in_new_hampshire@yahoogroups.com>; "Freestaters Southern
                          > > California" <socalfsp@yahoogroups.com>; "freestaters-Northern Calif."
                          > > <freestaters_nca@yahoogroups.com>
                          > > Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 6:46 AM
                          > > Subject: [FSP] The New Hamsphire state legislature recently rejected a
                          > > similar bill....
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > QUESTION: What does the state of Texas have that New Hampshire does not?
                          > > ANSWER: Apparently two things: One, an understanding of the United States
                          > > Constitution, and two, the willingness to insist on compliance with it.
                          > > ---Tim Condon
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > <http://www.drudgereport.com/>
                          > > *WAKE UP CALL: TEXAS GOV. BACKS RESOLUTION AFFIRMING SOVEREIGNTY
                          > > Tue Apr 14 2009 08:44:54 ET
                          > >
                          > > AUSTIN - Gov. Rick Perry joined state Rep. Brandon Creighton and sponsors
                          > of
                          > > House Concurrent Resolution (HCR) 50 in support of states' rights under
                          > the
                          > > 10th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.
                          > >
                          > > "I believe that our federal government has become oppressive in its size,
                          > > its intrusion into the lives of our citizens, and its interference with
                          > the
                          > > affairs of our state," Gov. Perry said. "That is why I am here today to
                          > > express my unwavering support for efforts all across our country to
                          > reaffirm
                          > > the states' rights affirmed by the Tenth Amendment to the U.S.
                          > Constitution.
                          > > I believe that returning to the letter and spirit of the U.S.
                          > Constitution
                          > > and its essential 10th Amendment will free our state from undue
                          > regulations,
                          > > and ultimately strengthen our Union."
                          > >
                          > > Perry continued: "Millions of Texans are tired of Washington, DC trying
                          > to
                          > > come down here to tell us how to run Texas."
                          > >
                          > > [VIDEO] <http://governor.state.tx.us/news/press-release/12227/>
                          > >
                          > > A number of recent federal proposals are not within the scope of the
                          > federal
                          > > government's constitutionally designated powers and impede the states'
                          > right
                          > > to govern themselves. HCR 50 affirms that Texas claims sovereignty under
                          > the
                          > > 10th Amendment over all powers not otherwise granted to the federal
                          > > government.
                          > >
                          > > It also designates that all compulsory federal legislation that requires
                          > > states to comply under threat of civil or criminal penalties, or that
                          > > requires states to pass legislation or lose federal funding, be
                          > prohibited
                          > > or repealed.
                          > >
                          > > Developing...*
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > ------------------------------------
                          > >
                          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ------------------------------------
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Jon Isaac
                          ... As a foreigner I find it curious that every true-blooded American celebrates independence and its resultant liberty. And yet most have a fear of
                          Message 12 of 17 , Apr 17, 2009
                          • 0 Attachment
                            > "(By "major reform", I include anything from a
                            > peaceful return to the Constitution, to
                            > secession, to outright revolution; hopefully the
                            > former instead of the latter.)

                            As a foreigner I find it curious that every true-blooded American
                            celebrates "independence" and its resultant liberty. And yet most have
                            a fear of "secession" in the pursuit of liberty. Why is it okay to
                            contemplate casting off the chains of an enslaving Britain but not an
                            enslaving Washington?

                            And if the answer is something to do with "taxation without
                            representation," tell me what what that little nifty ditty means.
                            Everyone seems to rattle it off robotically but few contemplate its
                            grisly consequences.
                          • Tim Condon
                            You want to see grisly consequences ? Try secession without thinking through all the potential ramifications. ---Tim C. ... [Non-text portions of this message
                            Message 13 of 17 , Apr 17, 2009
                            • 0 Attachment
                              You want to see "grisly consequences"? Try secession without thinking
                              through all the potential ramifications. ---Tim C.


                              On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 9:02 PM, Jon Isaac <jon.isaac@...> wrote:

                              > > "(By "major reform", I include anything from a
                              > > peaceful return to the Constitution, to
                              > > secession, to outright revolution; hopefully the
                              > > former instead of the latter.)
                              >
                              > As a foreigner I find it curious that every true-blooded American
                              > celebrates "independence" and its resultant liberty. And yet most have
                              > a fear of "secession" in the pursuit of liberty. Why is it okay to
                              > contemplate casting off the chains of an enslaving Britain but not an
                              > enslaving Washington?
                              >
                              > And if the answer is something to do with "taxation without
                              > representation," tell me what what that little nifty ditty means.
                              > Everyone seems to rattle it off robotically but few contemplate its
                              > grisly consequences.
                              >
                              >
                              > ------------------------------------
                              >
                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Kevin Craig
                              ... As an American I also find it curious. Let me be clear, I don t oppose secession, but I don t want bloodshed.
                              Message 14 of 17 , Apr 17, 2009
                              • 0 Attachment
                                At 9:02 PM -0400 4/17/09, Jon Isaac wrote:
                                > > "(By "major reform", I include anything from a
                                >> peaceful return to the Constitution, to
                                >> secession, to outright revolution; hopefully the
                                >> former instead of the latter.)
                                >
                                >As a foreigner I find it curious that every true-blooded American
                                >celebrates "independence" and its resultant liberty. And yet most have
                                >a fear of "secession" in the pursuit of liberty. Why is it okay to
                                >contemplate casting off the chains of an enslaving Britain but not an
                                >enslaving Washington?

                                As an American I also find it curious.

                                Let me be clear, I don't oppose secession, but I don't want bloodshed.
                              • jim.gilbert@iname.com
                                Just look back on the last war for independence: the preservation of the Union side has much bigger guns, now ... From: Tim Condon To:
                                Message 15 of 17 , Apr 21, 2009
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Just look back on the last war for independence: the "preservation of the
                                  Union" side has much bigger guns, now

                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: "Tim Condon"
                                  To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [FSP] The New Hamsphire state legislature recently
                                  rejected a similar bill....
                                  Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 22:47:38 -0400



                                  You want to see "grisly consequences"? Try secession without thinking
                                  through all the potential ramifications. ---Tim C.

                                  On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 9:02 PM, Jon Isaac <jon.isaac@...>
                                  wrote:

                                  > > "(By "major reform", I include anything from a
                                  > > peaceful return to the Constitution, to
                                  > > secession, to outright revolution; hopefully the
                                  > > former instead of the latter.)
                                  >
                                  > As a foreigner I find it curious that every true-blooded American
                                  > celebrates "independence" and its resultant liberty. And yet most
                                  have
                                  > a fear of "secession" in the pursuit of liberty. Why is it okay to
                                  > contemplate casting off the chains of an enslaving Britain but not
                                  an
                                  > enslaving Washington?
                                  >
                                  > And if the answer is something to do with "taxation without
                                  > representation," tell me what what that little nifty ditty means.
                                  > Everyone seems to rattle it off robotically but few contemplate its
                                  > grisly consequences.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ------------------------------------
                                  >
                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                  --
                                  It's News. It's Reviews. It's Interviews. It's Free. What Are You Waiting For?
                                  www.movieline.com



                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Freedom Fred
                                  ... And surveillance is not prevalent in England, with CCTVs on every corner? And torture is not prevalent in the US, with Guantanamo Bay s waterboarding ?
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Apr 23, 2009
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Brian wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Hi,
                                    >
                                    > I just joined the group and have not made a proper introduction. So,
                                    > here I am about to comment before doing so. The "Texas Republicans"
                                    > are scary enough, but let us not forget that socialism has a hard
                                    > time staying "lite." There are some examples of nations that are
                                    > socialistic in nature and "lite" per se. Having lived in England for
                                    > three years; I'd rather be there than China where surveillance,
                                    > kidnap, imprison, and torture is part of their version.
                                    >
                                    > Brian

                                    And surveillance is not prevalent in England, with CCTVs on every corner?

                                    And torture is not prevalent in the US, with Guantanamo Bay's
                                    "waterboarding"? Not to mention police brutality, which I've personally
                                    witnessed. Oh nevermind with the torture. They'll just plant evidence
                                    like they did for many years in Philly, or just outright shoot you like
                                    they did with Diallo in NY some years back. Cops lie in court all the
                                    time, and I had to personally deal with this some years ago -- here in
                                    New Hampshire, of all places.

                                    And the US still, AFAIK, has the highest incarceration rate per capita
                                    of any nation, including China.

                                    OK, we don't have that much of a problem with kidnapping -- as far as we
                                    know. But some of the States near the Mexican border seems to have some
                                    issues...

                                    I don't know which place is worse -- China or the US. A former Chinese
                                    co-worker of mine recently returned to China with her husband -- to
                                    stay. Can't be all that bad there, especially if they now prefer it to
                                    being in the US.

                                    Wake up... There is the propaganda we've been fed over the years, and
                                    then there is what's really going on...

                                    -Freedom Fred
                                  • Brian W.
                                    The US and England does have much of those things to some degree. The degree increases each month. As for monitory; how many people in this group has a home
                                    Message 17 of 17 , Apr 27, 2009
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      The US and England does have much of those things to some
                                      degree. The degree increases each month. As for monitory; how many people
                                      in this group has a home monitoring service? Probably not many - not here.
                                      However, consider the number of people one knows who does and their reasons
                                      and their personality. Everyone has reason for accepting the level of
                                      influence from outside forces, usually starting with the "protection of
                                      their family."

                                      The people are being conditioned to accept it. The point was degree. In
                                      order to understand a view, one has to delve fully into it. It is
                                      impossible to express a view within a couple of paragraphs to someone who
                                      has no base understanding. I tend to write a lot when I get started. My
                                      problem tends to come when I'm trying to abridge or distill it to a couple
                                      paragraphs.

                                      Those who knew me for years know how I feel about the dwindling
                                      liberties we used to have. People are running scared. They are accepting
                                      more and more from the government to gain what they perceive as security
                                      unaware that they are loosing it because they are relying on others to
                                      provide it (now heading Franklin's statement). It is a psychological
                                      process.

                                      When one tries to express a view, one has to understand what the other
                                      person understands to be true. Only then can a proper explanation be given.
                                      One has to shape the explanation from what the other understands and guide
                                      them to the view; otherwise those who are hearing/reading it will insert
                                      their own view out of context or selfishness without trying to fully
                                      understand.

                                      It takes a lot of time to try to understand another concept or views and
                                      there is no way one can understand every view. That is why people skim over
                                      stuff they don't understand or doesn't fit comfortably into their view, if
                                      they read it at all. I don't blame anyone for this. Everyone does it and
                                      so do I. I'm looking for people who understand my view. I have no desire
                                      to shape those too far off (I have a hard enough time finding time for my
                                      creating). This project understood that when they chose a place already
                                      heading on a similar path. So far the general concept is the best I've
                                      found, though I see the same egos at play here; people set to impose their
                                      own views who do not desire it and who are trying to show off their
                                      knowledge to feel superior to others. All this is natural. We just need to
                                      understand it. If we are professing freedoms and liberty, we must also
                                      allow others to form their own view, whether we accept them at right or not;
                                      otherwise we are no different and hypocrites.



                                      Brian







                                      _____

                                      From: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                                      [mailto:freestateproject@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Freedom Fred
                                      Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 5:24 PM
                                      To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: Re: [FSP] The New Hamsphire state legislature recently rejected a
                                      similar bill....



                                      rian wrote:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Hi,
                                      >
                                      > I just joined the group and have not made a proper introduction. So,
                                      > here I am about to comment before doing so. The "Texas Republicans"
                                      > are scary enough, but let us not forget that socialism has a hard
                                      > time staying "lite." There are some examples of nations that are
                                      > socialistic in nature and "lite" per se. Having lived in England for
                                      > three years; I'd rather be there than China where surveillance,
                                      > kidnap, imprison, and torture is part of their version.
                                      >
                                      > Brian

                                      And surveillance is not prevalent in England, with CCTVs on every corner?

                                      And torture is not prevalent in the US, with Guantanamo Bay's
                                      "waterboarding"? Not to mention police brutality, which I've personally
                                      witnessed. Oh nevermind with the torture. They'll just plant evidence
                                      like they did for many years in Philly, or just outright shoot you like
                                      they did with Diallo in NY some years back. Cops lie in court all the
                                      time, and I had to personally deal with this some years ago -- here in
                                      New Hampshire, of all places.

                                      And the US still, AFAIK, has the highest incarceration rate per capita
                                      of any nation, including China.

                                      OK, we don't have that much of a problem with kidnapping -- as far as we
                                      know. But some of the States near the Mexican border seems to have some
                                      issues...

                                      I don't know which place is worse -- China or the US. A former Chinese
                                      co-worker of mine recently returned to China with her husband -- to
                                      stay. Can't be all that bad there, especially if they now prefer it to
                                      being in the US.

                                      Wake up... There is the propaganda we've been fed over the years, and
                                      then there is what's really going on...

                                      -Freedom Fred





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