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The Free State Project is NOT a "secessionist movement"

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  • Tim Condon
    The announcement that follows below has been sent out on the Free State Project announcements list. While the notion of secessionism may be academically
    Message 1 of 13 , Oct 8, 2008
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      The announcement that follows below has been sent out on the Free State
      Project "announcements list." While the notion of secessionism may be
      academically interesting to some people, and while some of our more wacky
      participants may be advocates of such a thing, it should be emphasized that the
      Free State Project is not and has never been a "secession movement." This is
      a harmful misconception about the Free State Project that I have heard
      several times. The false notion that we are a secessionist movement is
      harmful to the FSP and harmful to our chances for liberty in our lifetimes.
      It should be batted down and disavowed wherever it rears its ugly head.
      Timothy Condon, Esq.
      VOLLRATH-CONDON, P.A.
      307 S. Fielding Ave., Suite #2
      Tampa, Florida 33606
      813-251-2626 Fax 813-254-2979
      Email: tim@...



      I attended the first Secessionist Convention in Vermont two years ago
      and found it very interesting and well-done. Note that it's FREE, but
      you need to RSVP ahead of time. (I wonder if they'll cut us off if
      too many of us RSVP?)

      --Sandy

      THE THIRD NORTH AMERICAN SECESSIONIST CONVENTION
      November 14-16, 2008 in Manchester, New Hampshire

      MARCH 31�The Middlebury Institute has announced that the Third North
      American Secessionist Convention will be held in Manchester, New
      Hampshire, on November 14-16, 2008.

      Delegates are expected from a majority of the three-dozen current
      secessionist organizations in the United States and Canada. As in the
      two previous conventions�in Burlington, Vermont, in 2006, and
      Chattanooga, Tennessee, in 2007�delegations will give reports on the
      activities in their areas in the previous year and trade information
      on strategizing, organizing, and politicking.

      In previous years, participants have uniformly expressed enthusiasm
      for the conventions as showcases for the secessionist movement and
      workshops for the down-home business of spreading the secessionist
      message. Both meetings issued declarations of purpose and policy,
      available on the website, MiddleburyInstitute.org.

      One highlight of the meeting will be a presentation of the idea of an
      independent Atlantic federation of Canadian maritime provinces and
      northern New England states. The proposal has been around for a
      number of years, but recently there has been renewed interest,
      especially in Canada, and this venue will provide a way to introduce
      it in this country in an impactful way.


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Michael Gilson-DeLemos
      Good post. I would say secession is a Libertarian tool, not goal. It is hardly wacky, but fundamental to common law and the concept of government as an agent.
      Message 2 of 13 , Jan 20, 2009
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        Good post. I would say secession is a Libertarian tool, not goal. It
        is hardly wacky, but fundamental to common law and the concept of
        government as an agent. In addition, Libertarian leaders such as
        Vaclav Klaus in Czechoslovakia used the concept to peacefully
        separtae the country into two free republics, and it was fundamental
        to the dissolution of the Soviet Union. In individual cases, people
        should be free to choose options for government or any other services
        or refuse to participate, and this underlies such concepts as re-
        privatization, the jury system, and devolution. By the same token
        people may choose not to secede but embrace change from within. It's
        just freedom of choice.

        A stumbling block is some people confuse Libertarian applications or
        tools with e.g. Libertarianism itself. The tool isn't the goal. In
        the case of FSP, my impression is it encourages people to look at the
        local circumstances and the different freedom tools available to
        better their own freely chosen strategies in a positive atmosphere.
        I'm sure there were many positive things at the VT conference FSP'ers
        can look at, but I don't see that FSP is anything but what it says it
        is.

        Hope this is useful. Thanks.
        MG

        _______________________________




        --- In freestateproject@yahoogroups.com, "Tim Condon" <tim@...> wrote:
        >
        > The announcement that follows below has been sent out on the Free
        State
        > Project "announcements list." While the notion of secessionism may
        be
        > academically interesting to some people, and while some of our more
        wacky
        > participants may be advocates of such a thing, it should be
        emphasized that the
        > Free State Project is not and has never been a "secession
        movement." This is
        > a harmful misconception about the Free State Project that I have
        heard
        > several times. The false notion that we are a secessionist movement
        is
        > harmful to the FSP and harmful to our chances for liberty in our
        lifetimes.
        > It should be batted down and disavowed wherever it rears its ugly
        head.
        > Timothy Condon, Esq.
        > VOLLRATH-CONDON, P.A.
        > 307 S. Fielding Ave., Suite #2
        > Tampa, Florida 33606
        > 813-251-2626 Fax 813-254-2979
        > Email: tim@...
        >
        >
        >
        > I attended the first Secessionist Convention in Vermont two years
        ago
        > and found it very interesting and well-done. Note that it's FREE,
        but
        > you need to RSVP ahead of time. (I wonder if they'll cut us off if
        > too many of us RSVP?)
        >
        > --Sandy
        >
        > THE THIRD NORTH AMERICAN SECESSIONIST CONVENTION
        > November 14-16, 2008 in Manchester, New Hampshire
        >
        > MARCH 31—The Middlebury Institute has announced that the Third North
        > American Secessionist Convention will be held in Manchester, New
        > Hampshire, on November 14-16, 2008.
        >
        > Delegates are expected from a majority of the three-dozen current
        > secessionist organizations in the United States and Canada. As in
        the
        > two previous conventions—in Burlington, Vermont, in 2006, and
        > Chattanooga, Tennessee, in 2007—delegations will give reports on the
        > activities in their areas in the previous year and trade information
        > on strategizing, organizing, and politicking.
        >
        > In previous years, participants have uniformly expressed enthusiasm
        > for the conventions as showcases for the secessionist movement and
        > workshops for the down-home business of spreading the secessionist
        > message. Both meetings issued declarations of purpose and policy,
        > available on the website, MiddleburyInstitute.org.
        >
        > One highlight of the meeting will be a presentation of the idea of
        an
        > independent Atlantic federation of Canadian maritime provinces and
        > northern New England states. The proposal has been around for a
        > number of years, but recently there has been renewed interest,
        > especially in Canada, and this venue will provide a way to introduce
        > it in this country in an impactful way.
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Steve
        Hmm, 3 months after Tim s post... ... Yup. Sometimes the existence of a tool (e.g. gun, divorce) is enough to prevent its becoming necessary. ... And in case
        Message 3 of 13 , Jan 21, 2009
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          Hmm, 3 months after Tim's post...

          >I would say secession is a Libertarian tool, not goal.

          Yup. Sometimes the existence of a tool (e.g. gun, divorce) is enough
          to prevent its becoming necessary.

          >I don't see that FSP is anything but what it says it is.

          And in case anyone forgets what that is:
          http://www.freestateproject.org/intro
          "The Free State Project is an agreement among 20,000 pro-liberty
          activists to move to New Hampshire, where they will exert the fullest
          practical effort toward the creation of a society in which the maximum
          role of government is the protection of life, liberty, and property."

          The FSP does not concern itself with what those "practical efforts"
          are, except during rare moments of idle conversation.

          Hmmm...even though I helped write that mission statement, I now
          disagree with it because of the centrality of the 20K figure, which is
          increasingly anachronistic. The FSP is an
          organization/corporation/community/project whose mission is to gather
          in New Hampshire people who can agree to the statement "I will exert
          the fullest practical effort toward the creation of a society in which
          the maximum role of government is the protection of life, liberty, and
          property." Those people have various conditions for moving: some need
          20K, some need 1K, and just need Taproom Tuesday. Of course, the
          original mission was 20K, and that still exists for the first project,
          but it is irrelevant for F1K and possibly other future sub-projects.
        • Jon Isaac
          Damn all those wacky anarcho-capitalists who happen to be part of the FSP movement (probably the majority). Kick them out now, so that we can maintain some
          Message 4 of 13 , Jan 21, 2009
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            Damn all those wacky anarcho-capitalists who happen to be part of the
            FSP movement (probably the majority). Kick them out now, so that we
            can maintain some form of respectability in the minds of the fascist,
            democratic majority. Remember, only good slaves get a meal at the end
            of the work day. Let's all remain obedient, subservient slaves.


            On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 2:47 AM, Tim Condon <tim@...> wrote:
            > The announcement that follows below has been sent out on the Free State
            > Project "announcements list." While the notion of secessionism may be
            > academically interesting to some people, and while some of our more wacky
            > participants may be advocates of such a thing, it should be emphasized that the
            > Free State Project is not and has never been a "secession movement." This is
            > a harmful misconception about the Free State Project that I have heard
            > several times. The false notion that we are a secessionist movement is
            > harmful to the FSP and harmful to our chances for liberty in our lifetimes.
            > It should be batted down and disavowed wherever it rears its ugly head.
            > Timothy Condon, Esq.
            > VOLLRATH-CONDON, P.A.
            > 307 S. Fielding Ave., Suite #2
            > Tampa, Florida 33606
            > 813-251-2626 Fax 813-254-2979
            > Email: tim@...
            >
            >
            >
            > I attended the first Secessionist Convention in Vermont two years ago
            > and found it very interesting and well-done. Note that it's FREE, but
            > you need to RSVP ahead of time. (I wonder if they'll cut us off if
            > too many of us RSVP?)
            >
            > --Sandy
            >
            > THE THIRD NORTH AMERICAN SECESSIONIST CONVENTION
            > November 14-16, 2008 in Manchester, New Hampshire
            >
            > MARCH 31—The Middlebury Institute has announced that the Third North
            > American Secessionist Convention will be held in Manchester, New
            > Hampshire, on November 14-16, 2008.
            >
            > Delegates are expected from a majority of the three-dozen current
            > secessionist organizations in the United States and Canada. As in the
            > two previous conventions—in Burlington, Vermont, in 2006, and
            > Chattanooga, Tennessee, in 2007—delegations will give reports on the
            > activities in their areas in the previous year and trade information
            > on strategizing, organizing, and politicking.
            >
            > In previous years, participants have uniformly expressed enthusiasm
            > for the conventions as showcases for the secessionist movement and
            > workshops for the down-home business of spreading the secessionist
            > message. Both meetings issued declarations of purpose and policy,
            > available on the website, MiddleburyInstitute.org.
            >
            > One highlight of the meeting will be a presentation of the idea of an
            > independent Atlantic federation of Canadian maritime provinces and
            > northern New England states. The proposal has been around for a
            > number of years, but recently there has been renewed interest,
            > especially in Canada, and this venue will provide a way to introduce
            > it in this country in an impactful way.
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Tim Condon
            Good points, Steve. I would say the original 20,000 number has become irrelevant to the Free State movement, since people instantly started moving when the
            Message 5 of 13 , Jan 21, 2009
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              Good points, Steve. I would say the original 20,000 number has become
              irrelevant to the Free State movement, since people instantly started moving
              when the choice of New Hampshire was announced. The fact is that our kind of
              people are continuously migrating into the Free State on an ongoing, steady
              basis. All the 20,000 number did was give some people an "out" (i.e. "If
              everybody else doesn't do it, I don't wanna do it!"). It's not necessary for
              anyone to have an "out" anymore. If you want to live in a free polity, come
              and participate in making it happen. If not, don't; there are plenty of
              people who are. My personal opinion is that as the political and economic
              situations in America become ever more grim in the coming years, lots and
              lots of people will reconsider their original decision not to move, and the
              migration will accelerate. Just my thoughts.
              Timothy Condon, Esq.
              12 Liberty Lane, Grafton, NH 03240
              603-523-9590
              307 S. Fielding Ave., Suite #2
              Tampa, Florida 33606
              813-251-2626 Fax 813-254-2979
              Email: tim@...

              NOTE: The contents of this e-mail and attachments are intended solely for
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              On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 10:46 AM, Steve <simplulo@...> wrote:

              > Hmm, 3 months after Tim's post...
              >
              > >I would say secession is a Libertarian tool, not goal.
              >
              > Yup. Sometimes the existence of a tool (e.g. gun, divorce) is enough
              > to prevent its becoming necessary.
              >
              > >I don't see that FSP is anything but what it says it is.
              >
              > And in case anyone forgets what that is:
              > http://www.freestateproject.org/intro
              > "The Free State Project is an agreement among 20,000 pro-liberty
              > activists to move to New Hampshire, where they will exert the fullest
              > practical effort toward the creation of a society in which the maximum
              > role of government is the protection of life, liberty, and property."
              >
              > The FSP does not concern itself with what those "practical efforts"
              > are, except during rare moments of idle conversation.
              >
              > Hmmm...even though I helped write that mission statement, I now
              > disagree with it because of the centrality of the 20K figure, which is
              > increasingly anachronistic. The FSP is an
              > organization/corporation/community/project whose mission is to gather
              > in New Hampshire people who can agree to the statement "I will exert
              > the fullest practical effort toward the creation of a society in which
              > the maximum role of government is the protection of life, liberty, and
              > property." Those people have various conditions for moving: some need
              > 20K, some need 1K, and just need Taproom Tuesday. Of course, the
              > original mission was 20K, and that still exists for the first project,
              > but it is irrelevant for F1K and possibly other future sub-projects.
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Carol Moore/Secession.Net
              http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/legislation/2009/HCR0006.html Hmm, next thing you know the NH may be seceding without FSP :-) -- Carol Moore in DC
              Message 6 of 13 , Feb 4, 2009
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                http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/legislation/2009/HCR0006.html

                Hmm, next thing you know the NH may be seceding without FSP :-)

                --
                Carol Moore in DC
                http://carolmoore.net/
                http://carolmoorereport.blogspot.com/
                http://youtube.com/carolmoore
                http://secession.net
                http://stopthewarnow.net
                http://whatwouldgandhido.net
                http://radicalbuttons.com

                NOTICE: Due to Presidential Executive Orders,
                the National Security Agency may have read this
                email without judicial or legislative oversight
                or warning, warrant, or notice. You have no
                recourse nor protection save to secede from the union.
              • Chris Lawless
                Yes Dan Itse the prime sponsor of this bill (which is being heard RIGHT NOW) in the NH House will be speaking at the 2009 Liberty Forum
                Message 7 of 13 , Feb 5, 2009
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                  Yes Dan Itse the prime sponsor of this bill (which is being heard RIGHT NOW) in the NH House will be speaking at the 2009 Liberty Forum (www.freestateproject.org/libertyforum)
                   


                  ****************************************
                  I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!

                  --- On Wed, 2/4/09, Carol Moore/Secession.Net <contacts@...> wrote:

                  From: Carol Moore/Secession.Net <contacts@...>
                  Subject: Re: [FSP] Re: The Free State Project is NOT a "secessionist movement"
                  To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Wednesday, February 4, 2009, 12:42 PM






                  http://www.gencourt .state.nh. us/legislation/ 2009/HCR0006. html

                  Hmm, next thing you know the NH may be seceding without FSP :-)

                  --
                  Carol Moore in DC
                  http://carolmoore. net/
                  http://carolmoorere port.blogspot. com/
                  http://youtube. com/carolmoore
                  http://secession. net
                  http://stopthewarno w.net
                  http://whatwouldgan dhido.net
                  http://radicalbutto ns.com

                  NOTICE: Due to Presidential Executive Orders,
                  the National Security Agency may have read this
                  email without judicial or legislative oversight
                  or warning, warrant, or notice. You have no
                  recourse nor protection save to secede from the union.



















                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Tim Condon
                  The resolution appears to be very explicit that it is not a threat nor an invitation nor a suggestion that New Hampshire would ever want to entertain the silly
                  Message 8 of 13 , Feb 5, 2009
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                    The resolution appears to be very explicit that it is not a threat nor an
                    invitation nor a suggestion that New Hampshire would ever want to entertain
                    the silly notion of secession. But that's just my reading! ;--) --Tim
                    Condon


                    On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 3:42 PM, Carol Moore/Secession.Net <
                    contacts@...> wrote:

                    > http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/legislation/2009/HCR0006.html
                    >
                    > Hmm, next thing you know the NH may be seceding without FSP :-)
                    >
                    > --
                    > Carol Moore in DC
                    > http://carolmoore.net/
                    > http://carolmoorereport.blogspot.com/
                    > http://youtube.com/carolmoore
                    > http://secession.net
                    > http://stopthewarnow.net
                    > http://whatwouldgandhido.net
                    > http://radicalbuttons.com
                    >
                    > NOTICE: Due to Presidential Executive Orders,
                    > the National Security Agency may have read this
                    > email without judicial or legislative oversight
                    > or warning, warrant, or notice. You have no
                    > recourse nor protection save to secede from the union.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Chris Lawless
                    Video of the fantastic bill that was heard in committee yesterday: http://www.dailypaul.com/node/81954 **************************************** I would remind
                    Message 9 of 13 , Feb 6, 2009
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                      Video of the fantastic bill that was heard in committee yesterday:
                      http://www.dailypaul.com/node/81954

                      ****************************************
                      I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!

                      --- On Wed, 2/4/09, Carol Moore/Secession.Net <contacts@...> wrote:

                      From: Carol Moore/Secession.Net <contacts@...>
                      Subject: Re: [FSP] Re: The Free State Project is NOT a "secessionist movement"
                      To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Wednesday, February 4, 2009, 12:42 PM






                      http://www.gencourt .state.nh. us/legislation/ 2009/HCR0006. html

                      Hmm, next thing you know the NH may be seceding without FSP :-)

                      --
                      Carol Moore in DC
                      http://carolmoore. net/
                      http://carolmoorere port.blogspot. com/
                      http://youtube. com/carolmoore
                      http://secession. net
                      http://stopthewarno w.net
                      http://whatwouldgan dhido.net
                      http://radicalbutto ns.com

                      NOTICE: Due to Presidential Executive Orders,
                      the National Security Agency may have read this
                      email without judicial or legislative oversight
                      or warning, warrant, or notice. You have no
                      recourse nor protection save to secede from the union.



















                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • GaryT
                      Well, it is nice to see that some people at the higher echeolons of govt, actually get it . Most poignant to me was the passage: That they will concur with
                      Message 10 of 13 , Feb 10, 2009
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                        Well, it is nice to see that some people at the higher echeolons of govt, actually "get it".

                        Most poignant to me was the passage:

                        " That they will concur with this State in considering acts as so palpably against the Constitution as to amount to an undisguised declaration that that compact is not meant to be the measure of the powers of the General Government, but that it will proceed in the exercise over these States, of all powers whatsoever: that they will view this as seizing the rights of the States, and consolidating them in the hands of the General Government, with a power assumed to bind the States, not merely as the cases made federal, (casus foederis,) but in all cases whatsoever, by laws made, not with their consent, but by others against their consent: that this would be to surrender the form of government we have chosen, and live under one deriving its powers from its own will, and not from our authority; and that the co-States, recurring to their natural right in cases not made federal, will concur in declaring these acts void, and of no force, and will each take measures of its own for providing that neither these acts, nor any others of the General Government not plainly and intentionally authorized by the Constitution"

                        Which is exactly what the federal government has managed to work over the years.

                        Gary T


                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Carol Moore/Secession.Net
                        To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 3:42 PM
                        Subject: Re: [FSP] Re: The Free State Project is NOT a "secessionist movement"


                        http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/legislation/2009/HCR0006.html

                        Hmm, next thing you know the NH may be seceding without FSP :-)

                        --
                        Carol Moore in DC
                        http://carolmoore.net/
                        http://carolmoorereport.blogspot.com/
                        http://youtube.com/carolmoore
                        http://secession.net
                        http://stopthewarnow.net
                        http://whatwouldgandhido.net
                        http://radicalbuttons.com

                        NOTICE: Due to Presidential Executive Orders,
                        the National Security Agency may have read this
                        email without judicial or legislative oversight
                        or warning, warrant, or notice. You have no
                        recourse nor protection save to secede from the union.




                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Tim Condon
                        The passage below is from a bill that has been submitted to the Free State House and Senate by several libertarian-conservative legislators. Regretfully,
                        Message 11 of 13 , Feb 11, 2009
                        • 0 Attachment
                          The passage below is from a bill that has been submitted to the Free State
                          House and Senate by several libertarian-conservative legislators.
                          Regretfully, however, it is written in turgid, archiac, prolix language. I
                          wish someone would simply re-write it in clear, contemporary English so that
                          everyone can have a clear, simple understanding of exactly what the bill is
                          espousing. ---Tim Condon


                          On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 1:49 PM, GaryT <garyonthenet@...> wrote:

                          > Well, it is nice to see that some people at the higher echeolons of govt,
                          > actually "get it".
                          >
                          > Most poignant to me was the passage:
                          >
                          > " That they will concur with this State in considering acts as so palpably
                          > against the Constitution as to amount to an undisguised declaration that
                          > that compact is not meant to be the measure of the powers of the General
                          > Government, but that it will proceed in the exercise over these States, of
                          > all powers whatsoever: that they will view this as seizing the rights of the
                          > States, and consolidating them in the hands of the General Government, with
                          > a power assumed to bind the States, not merely as the cases made federal,
                          > (casus foederis,) but in all cases whatsoever, by laws made, not with their
                          > consent, but by others against their consent: that this would be to
                          > surrender the form of government we have chosen, and live under one deriving
                          > its powers from its own will, and not from our authority; and that the
                          > co-States, recurring to their natural right in cases not made federal, will
                          > concur in declaring these acts void, and of no force, and will each take
                          > measures of its own for providing that neither these acts, nor any others of
                          > the General Government not plainly and intentionally authorized by the
                          > Constitution"
                          >
                          > Which is exactly what the federal government has managed to work over the
                          > years.
                          >
                          > Gary T
                          >
                          >
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: Carol Moore/Secession.Net
                          > To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 3:42 PM
                          > Subject: Re: [FSP] Re: The Free State Project is NOT a "secessionist
                          > movement"
                          >
                          >
                          > http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/legislation/2009/HCR0006.html
                          >
                          > Hmm, next thing you know the NH may be seceding without FSP :-)
                          >
                          > --
                          > Carol Moore in DC
                          > http://carolmoore.net/
                          > http://carolmoorereport.blogspot.com/
                          > http://youtube.com/carolmoore
                          > http://secession.net
                          > http://stopthewarnow.net
                          > http://whatwouldgandhido.net
                          > http://radicalbuttons.com
                          >
                          > NOTICE: Due to Presidential Executive Orders,
                          > the National Security Agency may have read this
                          > email without judicial or legislative oversight
                          > or warning, warrant, or notice. You have no
                          > recourse nor protection save to secede from the union.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ------------------------------------
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Chris Lawless
                          turgid, archiac, prolix language.   Much of the language is taken from the Original Kentucky Resolutions.  
                          Message 12 of 13 , Feb 11, 2009
                          • 0 Attachment
                            'turgid, archiac, prolix language.'
                             
                            Much of the language is taken from the Original Kentucky Resolutions.
                             
                            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kentucky_Resolutions

                            ****************************************
                            I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!

                            --- On Wed, 2/11/09, Tim Condon <tim@...> wrote:

                            From: Tim Condon <tim@...>
                            Subject: Re: [FSP] Re: The Free State Project is NOT a "secessionist movement"
                            To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Wednesday, February 11, 2009, 6:11 AM






                            The passage below is from a bill that has been submitted to the Free State
                            House and Senate by several libertarian- conservative legislators.
                            Regretfully, however, it is written in turgid, archiac, prolix language. I
                            wish someone would simply re-write it in clear, contemporary English so that
                            everyone can have a clear, simple understanding of exactly what the bill is
                            espousing. ---Tim Condon

                            On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 1:49 PM, GaryT <garyonthenet@ yahoo.com> wrote:

                            > Well, it is nice to see that some people at the higher echeolons of govt,
                            > actually "get it".
                            >
                            > Most poignant to me was the passage:
                            >
                            > " That they will concur with this State in considering acts as so palpably
                            > against the Constitution as to amount to an undisguised declaration that
                            > that compact is not meant to be the measure of the powers of the General
                            > Government, but that it will proceed in the exercise over these States, of
                            > all powers whatsoever: that they will view this as seizing the rights of the
                            > States, and consolidating them in the hands of the General Government, with
                            > a power assumed to bind the States, not merely as the cases made federal,
                            > (casus foederis,) but in all cases whatsoever, by laws made, not with their
                            > consent, but by others against their consent: that this would be to
                            > surrender the form of government we have chosen, and live under one deriving
                            > its powers from its own will, and not from our authority; and that the
                            > co-States, recurring to their natural right in cases not made federal, will
                            > concur in declaring these acts void, and of no force, and will each take
                            > measures of its own for providing that neither these acts, nor any others of
                            > the General Government not plainly and intentionally authorized by the
                            > Constitution"
                            >
                            > Which is exactly what the federal government has managed to work over the
                            > years.
                            >
                            > Gary T
                            >
                            >
                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            > From: Carol Moore/Secession. Net
                            > To: freestateproject@ yahoogroups. com
                            > Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 3:42 PM
                            > Subject: Re: [FSP] Re: The Free State Project is NOT a "secessionist
                            > movement"
                            >
                            >
                            > http://www.gencourt .state.nh. us/legislation/ 2009/HCR0006. html
                            >
                            > Hmm, next thing you know the NH may be seceding without FSP :-)
                            >
                            > --
                            > Carol Moore in DC
                            > http://carolmoore. net/
                            > http://carolmoorere port.blogspot. com/
                            > http://youtube. com/carolmoore
                            > http://secession. net
                            > http://stopthewarno w.net
                            > http://whatwouldgan dhido.net
                            > http://radicalbutto ns.com
                            >
                            > NOTICE: Due to Presidential Executive Orders,
                            > the National Security Agency may have read this
                            > email without judicial or legislative oversight
                            > or warning, warrant, or notice. You have no
                            > recourse nor protection save to secede from the union.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ------------ --------- --------- ------
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



















                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Tim Condon
                            Yes, as you can see, they were written in 1798. That s not the way people write, or talk, today. Hence my wish for someone to decipher the language of the
                            Message 13 of 13 , Feb 11, 2009
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Yes, as you can see, they were written in 1798. That's not the way people
                              write, or talk, today. Hence my wish for someone to decipher the language of
                              the proposed legislative resolution into common, everyday, current American
                              English. --Tim


                              On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 11:47 AM, Chris Lawless <dreepa@...> wrote:

                              > 'turgid, archiac, prolix language.'
                              >
                              > Much of the language is taken from the Original Kentucky Resolutions.
                              >
                              > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kentucky_Resolutions
                              >
                              > ****************************************
                              > I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And
                              > let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no
                              > virtue!
                              >
                              > --- On Wed, 2/11/09, Tim Condon <tim@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > From: Tim Condon <tim@...>
                              > Subject: Re: [FSP] Re: The Free State Project is NOT a "secessionist
                              > movement"
                              > To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                              > Date: Wednesday, February 11, 2009, 6:11 AM
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > The passage below is from a bill that has been submitted to the Free State
                              > House and Senate by several libertarian- conservative legislators.
                              > Regretfully, however, it is written in turgid, archiac, prolix language. I
                              > wish someone would simply re-write it in clear, contemporary English so
                              > that
                              > everyone can have a clear, simple understanding of exactly what the bill is
                              > espousing. ---Tim Condon
                              >
                              > On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 1:49 PM, GaryT <garyonthenet@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                              >
                              > > Well, it is nice to see that some people at the higher echeolons of govt,
                              > > actually "get it".
                              > >
                              > > Most poignant to me was the passage:
                              > >
                              > > " That they will concur with this State in considering acts as so
                              > palpably
                              > > against the Constitution as to amount to an undisguised declaration that
                              > > that compact is not meant to be the measure of the powers of the General
                              > > Government, but that it will proceed in the exercise over these States,
                              > of
                              > > all powers whatsoever: that they will view this as seizing the rights of
                              > the
                              > > States, and consolidating them in the hands of the General Government,
                              > with
                              > > a power assumed to bind the States, not merely as the cases made federal,
                              > > (casus foederis,) but in all cases whatsoever, by laws made, not with
                              > their
                              > > consent, but by others against their consent: that this would be to
                              > > surrender the form of government we have chosen, and live under one
                              > deriving
                              > > its powers from its own will, and not from our authority; and that the
                              > > co-States, recurring to their natural right in cases not made federal,
                              > will
                              > > concur in declaring these acts void, and of no force, and will each take
                              > > measures of its own for providing that neither these acts, nor any others
                              > of
                              > > the General Government not plainly and intentionally authorized by the
                              > > Constitution"
                              > >
                              > > Which is exactly what the federal government has managed to work over the
                              > > years.
                              > >
                              > > Gary T
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > ----- Original Message -----
                              > > From: Carol Moore/Secession. Net
                              > > To: freestateproject@ yahoogroups. com
                              > > Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 3:42 PM
                              > > Subject: Re: [FSP] Re: The Free State Project is NOT a "secessionist
                              > > movement"
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > http://www.gencourt .state.nh. us/legislation/ 2009/HCR0006. html
                              > >
                              > > Hmm, next thing you know the NH may be seceding without FSP :-)
                              > >
                              > > --
                              > > Carol Moore in DC
                              > > http://carolmoore. net/
                              > > http://carolmoorere port.blogspot. com/
                              > > http://youtube. com/carolmoore
                              > > http://secession. net
                              > > http://stopthewarno w.net
                              > > http://whatwouldgan dhido.net
                              > > http://radicalbutto ns.com
                              > >
                              > > NOTICE: Due to Presidential Executive Orders,
                              > > the National Security Agency may have read this
                              > > email without judicial or legislative oversight
                              > > or warning, warrant, or notice. You have no
                              > > recourse nor protection save to secede from the union.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > ------------ --------- --------- ------
                              > >
                              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ------------------------------------
                              >
                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >


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