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Re: [FSP] An example of brilliant reasoning about the FSP from the Boston Herald

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  • matt qpublic
    My response to the Boston Herald: Seriously, what bonehead wrote this? http://news.bostonherald.com/editorial/view.bg?articleid=180744&srvc=home Sure, I don t
    Message 1 of 12 , Feb 5, 2007
      My response to the Boston Herald:

      Seriously, what bonehead wrote this?

      http://news.bostonherald.com/editorial/view.bg?articleid=180744&srvc=home

      Sure, I don't smoke, and I think it's great to be able to go out, and not be
      sick the next day, but when I did go out before the smoking ban, I simply
      made the choice not to go to clubs or bars that were too smokey.

      The business owner has no choice but to obey the law. The consumer can make
      their own choices by deciding what businesses to patronize.

      Of course, once you have a smoking ban in place, why not ban fatty foods?
      We did it in NYC. After that, you can ban dancing without a license. We
      did that too. Almost 100 years ago (originally to keep black people in
      their own neighborhoods). And the law is still enforced, not because we're
      racists, but because it generates revenue.

      I hope you enjoy the slippery slope that leads to a police state, while you
      use your freedom of speech to belittle those who are defending it, and your
      other rights as well.

      Furthermore, the fact that people are not jumping up, selling their houses,
      and moving to New Hampshire is no reflection on the appeal of Libertarians
      or the Free State Project. It may just have to do with not wanting to move
      to a frozen shithole like New Hampshire.


      --Matt




      >From: "Jon Isaac" <jon.isaac@...>
      >Reply-To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
      >To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
      >Subject: Re: [FSP] An example of brilliant reasoning about the FSP from the
      >Boston Herald
      >Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 11:55:27 -0500
      >
      >Incredible! The astounding ignorance of the basics of libertarianism
      >exhibited by the "Boston Herald editorial staff" dazzles me. I console
      >myself by hoping that the hatchet job was written by a two year old having
      >a
      >tantrum.
      >
      >Jon
      >
      >On 2/4/07, tim condon <tim@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > *N.H. project up in smoke*
      > > By *Boston Herald editorial staff*
      > > Saturday, February 3, 2007
      > >
      > > *T*hey're just not making libertarians like they used to.
      > > Three years ago a merry band of these free-thinkers announced the "Free
      > > State Project," aimed at bringing 20,000 people to live in New Hampshire
      > > (you know, the "Live Free or Die" state, as it says on the license
      >plates)
      > > by 2007. The idea was to form a critical mass that could have an
      >important
      > > influence on public policies.
      > > But an Associated Press dispatch from Nashua last week reported that the
      > > 5,454 original participants around the country who signed a pledge to
      >move
      > > have grown to only about 7,500.(You don't have to actually move, it
      >seems,
      > > until 20,000 pledges have been accumulated and there was no indication
      >of
      > > how many had already done so.)
      > > Project director Varrin Swearingen observed, "It can be tough to start
      > > over," though he believes his savings in taxes moving from California
      >paid
      > > for the move.
      > > He did, however, note that members who do live in New Hampshire have
      > > already made a difference "by lobbying against a measure that would have
      > > banned smoking in restaurants."
      > > Could this be a clue to what appears to be the lack of appeal of
      > > libertarians? Surely not all 7,500 feel this way, but for people not in
      > > the
      > > movement it just might seem unacceptable selfishness to dress up
      >personal
      > > preference as a matter of principle when exercise of that preference
      > > causes
      > > discomfort, sometimes acute, to many others.
      > > Smoke in your own house, if you like, but smoking in restaurants used by
      > > nonsmokers is on a parallel with assaulting them, which, we presume,
      > > libertarians would not condone.
      > >
      > >
      >http://news.bostonherald.com/editorial/view.bg?articleid=180744&srvc=home
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >

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    • Jason P Sorens
      ... houses, ... Libertarians ... to move ... I m not sure that someone from New York city has the right to call any other place a shithole. ;^)
      Message 2 of 12 , Feb 6, 2007
        --- In freestateproject@yahoogroups.com, "matt qpublic"
        <mattqpublic@...> wrote:

        > Furthermore, the fact that people are not jumping up, selling their
        houses,
        > and moving to New Hampshire is no reflection on the appeal of
        Libertarians
        > or the Free State Project. It may just have to do with not wanting
        to move
        > to a frozen shithole like New Hampshire.

        I'm not sure that someone from New York city has the right to call any
        other place a "shithole." ;^)
      • Chris Lawless
        That is excellent.... except for the frozen shithole.... I love it here.... much more so then the socialist shithold of Kalifornia that I was living in. ...
        Message 3 of 12 , Feb 6, 2007
          That is excellent....
          except for the frozen shithole.... I love it here....
          much more so then the socialist shithold of Kalifornia
          that I was living in.
          --- matt qpublic <mattqpublic@...> wrote:

          > My response to the Boston Herald:
          >
          > Seriously, what bonehead wrote this?
          >
          >
          http://news.bostonherald.com/editorial/view.bg?articleid=180744&srvc=home
          >
          > Sure, I don't smoke, and I think it's great to be
          > able to go out, and not be
          > sick the next day, but when I did go out before the
          > smoking ban, I simply
          > made the choice not to go to clubs or bars that were
          > too smokey.
          >
          > The business owner has no choice but to obey the
          > law. The consumer can make
          > their own choices by deciding what businesses to
          > patronize.
          >
          > Of course, once you have a smoking ban in place, why
          > not ban fatty foods?
          > We did it in NYC. After that, you can ban dancing
          > without a license. We
          > did that too. Almost 100 years ago (originally to
          > keep black people in
          > their own neighborhoods). And the law is still
          > enforced, not because we're
          > racists, but because it generates revenue.
          >
          > I hope you enjoy the slippery slope that leads to a
          > police state, while you
          > use your freedom of speech to belittle those who are
          > defending it, and your
          > other rights as well.
          >
          > Furthermore, the fact that people are not jumping
          > up, selling their houses,
          > and moving to New Hampshire is no reflection on the
          > appeal of Libertarians
          > or the Free State Project. It may just have to do
          > with not wanting to move
          > to a frozen shithole like New Hampshire.
          >
          >
          > --Matt
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > >From: "Jon Isaac" <jon.isaac@...>
          > >Reply-To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
          > >To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
          > >Subject: Re: [FSP] An example of brilliant
          > reasoning about the FSP from the
          > >Boston Herald
          > >Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 11:55:27 -0500
          > >
          > >Incredible! The astounding ignorance of the basics
          > of libertarianism
          > >exhibited by the "Boston Herald editorial staff"
          > dazzles me. I console
          > >myself by hoping that the hatchet job was written
          > by a two year old having
          > >a
          > >tantrum.
          > >
          > >Jon
          > >
          > >On 2/4/07, tim condon <tim@...> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > *N.H. project up in smoke*
          > > > By *Boston Herald editorial staff*
          > > > Saturday, February 3, 2007
          > > >
          > > > *T*hey're just not making libertarians like they
          > used to.
          > > > Three years ago a merry band of these
          > free-thinkers announced the "Free
          > > > State Project," aimed at bringing 20,000 people
          > to live in New Hampshire
          > > > (you know, the "Live Free or Die" state, as it
          > says on the license
          > >plates)
          > > > by 2007. The idea was to form a critical mass
          > that could have an
          > >important
          > > > influence on public policies.
          > > > But an Associated Press dispatch from Nashua
          > last week reported that the
          > > > 5,454 original participants around the country
          > who signed a pledge to
          > >move
          > > > have grown to only about 7,500.(You don't have
          > to actually move, it
          > >seems,
          > > > until 20,000 pledges have been accumulated and
          > there was no indication
          > >of
          > > > how many had already done so.)
          > > > Project director Varrin Swearingen observed, "It
          > can be tough to start
          > > > over," though he believes his savings in taxes
          > moving from California
          > >paid
          > > > for the move.
          > > > He did, however, note that members who do live
          > in New Hampshire have
          > > > already made a difference "by lobbying against a
          > measure that would have
          > > > banned smoking in restaurants."
          > > > Could this be a clue to what appears to be the
          > lack of appeal of
          > > > libertarians? Surely not all 7,500 feel this
          > way, but for people not in
          > > > the
          > > > movement it just might seem unacceptable
          > selfishness to dress up
          > >personal
          > > > preference as a matter of principle when
          > exercise of that preference
          > > > causes
          > > > discomfort, sometimes acute, to many others.
          > > > Smoke in your own house, if you like, but
          > smoking in restaurants used by
          > > > nonsmokers is on a parallel with assaulting
          > them, which, we presume,
          > > > libertarians would not condone.
          > > >
          > > >
          >
          >http://news.bostonherald.com/editorial/view.bg?articleid=180744&srvc=home
          > > >
          > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
          > removed]
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >[Non-text portions of this message have been
          > removed]
          > >
          >
          >
          _________________________________________________________________
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          > and sell with people
          > you know
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          >
          >
          >
          >
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          >
          > (Yahoo! ID required)
          >
          > mailto:freestateproject-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          >




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        • lrdan4th@aol.com
          Perhaps you shouldn t have written this after just stepping outside :) ... From: mattqpublic@hotmail.com To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, 5 Feb
          Message 4 of 12 , Feb 6, 2007
            Perhaps you shouldn't have written this after just stepping outside :)


            -----Original Message-----
            From: mattqpublic@...
            To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 5:45 PM
            Subject: Re: [FSP] An example of brilliant reasoning about the FSP from the Boston Herald


            My response to the Boston Herald:

            Seriously, what bonehead wrote this?

            http://news.bostonherald.com/editorial/view.bg?articleid=180744&srvc=home

            Sure, I don't smoke, and I think it's great to be able to go out, and not be
            sick the next day, but when I did go out before the smoking ban, I simply
            made the choice not to go to clubs or bars that were too smokey.

            The business owner has no choice but to obey the law. The consumer can make
            their own choices by deciding what businesses to patronize.

            Of course, once you have a smoking ban in place, why not ban fatty foods?
            We did it in NYC. After that, you can ban dancing without a license. We
            did that too. Almost 100 years ago (originally to keep black people in
            their own neighborhoods). And the law is still enforced, not because we're
            racists, but because it generates revenue.

            I hope you enjoy the slippery slope that leads to a police state, while you
            use your freedom of speech to belittle those who are defending it, and your
            other rights as well.

            Furthermore, the fact that people are not jumping up, selling their houses,
            and moving to New Hampshire is no reflection on the appeal of Libertarians
            or the Free State Project. It may just have to do with not wanting to move
            to a frozen shithole like New Hampshire.


            --Matt




            >From: "Jon Isaac" <jon.isaac@...>
            >Reply-To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
            >To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
            >Subject: Re: [FSP] An example of brilliant reasoning about the FSP from the
            >Boston Herald
            >Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 11:55:27 -0500
            >
            >Incredible! The astounding ignorance of the basics of libertarianism
            >exhibited by the "Boston Herald editorial staff" dazzles me. I console
            >myself by hoping that the hatchet job was written by a two year old having
            >a
            >tantrum.
            >
            >Jon
            >
            >On 2/4/07, tim condon <tim@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > *N.H. project up in smoke*
            > > By *Boston Herald editorial staff*
            > > Saturday, February 3, 2007
            > >
            > > *T*hey're just not making libertarians like they used to.
            > > Three years ago a merry band of these free-thinkers announced the "Free
            > > State Project," aimed at bringing 20,000 people to live in New Hampshire
            > > (you know, the "Live Free or Die" state, as it says on the license
            >plates)
            > > by 2007. The idea was to form a critical mass that could have an
            >important
            > > influence on public policies.
            > > But an Associated Press dispatch from Nashua last week reported that the
            > > 5,454 original participants around the country who signed a pledge to
            >move
            > > have grown to only about 7,500.(You don't have to actually move, it
            >seems,
            > > until 20,000 pledges have been accumulated and there was no indication
            >of
            > > how many had already done so.)
            > > Project director Varrin Swearingen observed, "It can be tough to start
            > > over," though he believes his savings in taxes moving from California
            >paid
            > > for the move.
            > > He did, however, note that members who do live in New Hampshire have
            > > already made a difference "by lobbying against a measure that would have
            > > banned smoking in restaurants."
            > > Could this be a clue to what appears to be the lack of appeal of
            > > libertarians? Surely not all 7,500 feel this way, but for people not in
            > > the
            > > movement it just might seem unacceptable selfishness to dress up
            >personal
            > > preference as a matter of principle when exercise of that preference
            > > causes
            > > discomfort, sometimes acute, to many others.
            > > Smoke in your own house, if you like, but smoking in restaurants used by
            > > nonsmokers is on a parallel with assaulting them, which, we presume,
            > > libertarians would not condone.
            > >
            > >
            >http://news.bostonherald.com/editorial/view.bg?articleid=180744&srvc=home
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >

            _________________________________________________________________
            FREE online classifieds from Windows Live Expo – buy and sell with people
            you know
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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Bill
            ... Speaking of respecting personal preference... Some of us can only be grateful that others of us retain the liberty of prejudice, and trusting that
            Message 5 of 12 , Feb 6, 2007
              matt qpublic wrote:
              > My response to the Boston Herald:
              >
              > ... It may just have to do with not wanting to move
              > to a frozen shithole like New Hampshire.

              Speaking of respecting "personal preference..." Some of us can only be
              grateful that others of us retain the liberty of prejudice, and trusting
              that they'll act upon it appropriately...
              --

              --= Ya can't blame me: I vote for liberty. =--
              BikerBill=- ©¿©¬
              allemanse.com=-
              --= Proud Member - Reality-Based Community =--
            • matt qpublic
              That is true. I ve been living in Virginia lately. --M ... _________________________________________________________________ Talk now to your Hotmail contacts
              Message 6 of 12 , Feb 6, 2007
                That is true. I've been living in Virginia lately.


                --M


                >From: "Jason P Sorens" <jsorens@...>
                >Reply-To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                >To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                >Subject: Re: [FSP] An example of brilliant reasoning about the FSP from the
                >Boston Herald
                >Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2007 13:53:00 -0000
                >
                >--- In freestateproject@yahoogroups.com, "matt qpublic"
                ><mattqpublic@...> wrote:
                >
                > > Furthermore, the fact that people are not jumping up, selling their
                >houses,
                > > and moving to New Hampshire is no reflection on the appeal of
                >Libertarians
                > > or the Free State Project. It may just have to do with not wanting
                >to move
                > > to a frozen shithole like New Hampshire.
                >
                >I'm not sure that someone from New York city has the right to call any
                >other place a "shithole." ;^)
                >

                _________________________________________________________________
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              • Mike Lorrey
                ... Depending on which part of virginia you are in, you are still in a worse shithole than NH is any day. Mike Lorrey President, Lorrey Aerospace
                Message 7 of 12 , Feb 6, 2007
                  --- matt qpublic <mattqpublic@...> wrote:

                  > That is true. I've been living in Virginia lately.

                  Depending on which part of virginia you are in, you are still in a
                  worse shithole than NH is any day.

                  Mike Lorrey
                  President, Lorrey Aerospace
                  http://www.lorrey.biz
                  Founder, Constitution Park Foundation
                  Blog: http://intlib.blogspot.com
                • Bill
                  ... Took em 10 days from submission to pub date, but whatteryagonnado...? http://news.bostonherald.com/letters/view.bg?articleid=183106 Hey, current rating -
                  Message 8 of 12 , Feb 16, 2007
                    tim condon wrote:
                    > *N.H. project up in smoke*
                    > By *Boston Herald editorial staff*
                    > Saturday, February 3, 2007

                    Took 'em 10 days from submission to pub date, but whatteryagonnado...?
                    http://news.bostonherald.com/letters/view.bg?articleid=183106
                    Hey, current rating - by Herald readers - is 4.8/5 stars! Hell, the
                    "editorial staff" even gave it a rational title. Has there been a coup...?
                    --

                    --= Ya can't blame me: I vote for liberty. =--
                    BikerBill=- ©¿©¬
                    allemanse.com=-
                    --= Proud Member - Reality-Based Community =--
                  • Jon Isaac
                    Congrats Bill ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    Message 9 of 12 , Feb 18, 2007
                      Congrats Bill

                      On 2/17/07, Bill <yahoo@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > tim condon wrote:
                      > > *N.H. project up in smoke*
                      > > By *Boston Herald editorial staff*
                      > > Saturday, February 3, 2007
                      >
                      > Took 'em 10 days from submission to pub date, but whatteryagonnado...?
                      > http://news.bostonherald.com/letters/view.bg?articleid=183106
                      > Hey, current rating - by Herald readers - is 4.8/5 stars! Hell, the
                      > "editorial staff" even gave it a rational title. Has there been a coup...?
                      > --
                      >
                      > --= Ya can't blame me: I vote for liberty. =--
                      > BikerBill=- (c)¿(c)¬
                      > allemanse.com=-
                      > --= Proud Member - Reality-Based Community =--
                      >
                      >


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