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Re: [FSP] Fwd: politics of the psc 341 professor (fwd)

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  • BGreen
    ... beginning ... real ... you could always just prove them wrong by saying your also on the advisory board of the Second Vermont Republic...so your an equal
    Message 1 of 17 , Oct 2, 2006
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      --- In freestateproject@yahoogroups.com, "Jason P Sorens"
      <jsorens@...> wrote:
      >
      > --- In freestateproject@yahoogroups.com, Mike Lorrey <mlorrey@> wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > --- Jason P Sorens <jsorens@> wrote:
      > >
      > > > --- In freestateproject@yahoogroups.com, Mike Lorrey <mlorrey@>
      > > > wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > David Horowitz, as you may know, has been leading a campaign
      > > > against
      > > > > this sort of persecution of non-leftist faculty. I think this is
      > > > > something you should pass on to both libertarian and conservative
      > > > > groups on campus and let the students run with it.
      > > >
      > > > Oh, I don't know; I see this case as more amusing than threatening,
      > > > really. It's apparently a lone partisan hack who somehow got access
      > > > to
      > > > the class list who has done this. The most troubling part of this is
      > > > the privacy implications for my students. I'd be interested to find
      > > > out whether this message was sent to the students in my other class
      > > > (or even previous classes) as well. If so, I would very strongly
      > > > suspect the handiwork of a non-student. If not, it could be just a
      > > > misguided student who sent this, possibly at the behest of someone
      > > > else.
      > > >
      > > > At any rate, I'll definitely have to talk about this at the
      beginning
      > > > of our next class.
      > >
      > > Amusing? Yes, it is, but it is not an isolated incident, its part of a
      > > wider pattern of leftist intolerance of ideological diversity on
      > > campus.
      > >
      > > It is very opportune to take advantage of such gaffs by the opposition
      > > when they happen and not let them get away with it. Truth Out is a
      real
      > > leftist organization that espouses radical moonbat policies.
      >
      > Huh... I didn't realize that "Truth Out" was an actual organization. I
      > haven't heard of them on campus here. This is probably a lone member
      > of that group who has taken it upon himself/herself to try to
      > intimidate professors with opposing views.
      >
      > Jason
      >


      you could always just prove them wrong by saying your also on the
      advisory board of the Second Vermont Republic...so your an equal
      opportunity radical decentralist.

      ;)

      bg
    • GTriest
      Omigod. This writer s characterization of both the FSP & Libertarianism is soo off-mark and aspersively slanted so as question his knowledge of either. never
      Message 2 of 17 , Oct 2, 2006
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        Omigod.

        This writer's characterization of both the FSP & Libertarianism is soo off-mark and aspersively slanted so as question his knowledge of either.

        "never contribute anything to American society"? As a libertarian tenet? What idiocy!
        What Libertarianism promotes is a neutrality of obligation to contribute to society, there is no bar to doing so!
        It just doesn't force people to 'contribute' to society. Forcing a contribution is obviously theft.

        "libertarianism is extreme right-wing philosophy" - Abbreviated BS!

        Do extreme right-wingers demand the personal liberties that libertarians do?
        I don't think so, not by todays definition. And if they did, then I guess we ARE all xtreem rightwingers - NOT!!

        Gary T



        "It is better to have a bad plan, than no plan at all"

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Jean Alexander
        To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 10:33 AM
        Subject: Re: [FSP] Fwd: politics of the psc 341 professor (fwd)


        The author's characterization is pretty much belayed by the
        conversation in the first link. Hopefully his email recipients will
        get past his mischaracterizations and draw their own conclusions.
        Mud slinging is usually pretty obvious. This is no exception.

        Jean

        On Oct 2, 2006, at 9:08 AM, Jason Sorens wrote:

        >
        > Wow. See the forwarded message below. I've edited out the name of the
        > person who sent this to me. I guess some people don't know the
        > meaning of
        > academic freedom, eh?
        >
        >
        > Professor Sorens:
        >
        > How are you doing? I hope all is well. I wanted to email you to tell
        > you that I received this email at my buffalo email account. I don't
        > know if you are aware that this was sent out my someone or not.
        >
        > Sincerely,
        >
        > [snip]
        >
        >
        >
        > ----- Forwarded message from Truth Out <truth.out@...> -----
        > From: Truth Out <truth.out@...>
        > To: *snip*
        > Subject: politics of the psc 341 professor
        > Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2006 17:21:56 -0500
        >
        > Hello
        >
        > Ever wonder about the politics of our professor?
        >
        > Jason Sorens, founder of the Free State Project, a group trying to get
        > 20,000 people who plan to move out to rural New Hampshire, never pay
        > taxes,
        > never contribute anything of value to American society, and who value
        > private property over human life. So they are taking their belongings
        > and
        > their guns out to New Hampshire to live in isolation from the rest of
        > the
        > American population. They are trying to privatize nearly everything
        > and
        > fundamentally dismantle public education and many social programs and
        > services. This organization is sympathetic toward secessionist
        > movements
        > in general. Libertarianism is a extreme right-wing philsophy which
        > believes
        > that private property and the free market has a greater value than
        > human
        > life and society. And he teaches here at UB... So why exactly is
        > someone
        > teaching at UB who believes in dismantling public education? Is there
        > a
        > connection between his politics and how his courses are organized?
        > These
        > are questions to consider...check out these websites for more info
        >
        > http://www.philipdru.com/audio/sorens.mp3
        >
        > http://www.inquestofliberty.com/JasonSorens.html
        >
        > http://www.theatlasphere.com/columns/040223_schwartz_sorens.php
        >
        > http://www.freestateproject.org/about/essay_archive/marketplace.php
        >
        > __________________________________________________________
        > All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day
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        >
        >
        >
        > ----- End forwarded message -----
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Bill Alleman
        ... Nonsense. No question at all... -- --= Ya can t blame me: I vote for liberty. =-- BikerBill=- ©¿©¬ allemanse.com=- --=
        Message 3 of 17 , Oct 2, 2006
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          GTriest wrote on 10/2/2006, 4:39 PM:

          > This writer's characterization of both the FSP & Libertarianism is soo
          > off-mark and aspersively slanted so as question his knowledge of
          > either.

          Nonsense. No question at all...
          --

          --= Ya can't blame me: I vote for liberty. =--
          BikerBill=- ©¿©¬
          allemanse.com=-
          --= http://pledgebank.com/NoNHREALID =--
        • wolzybk
          Which is instructive, since that characterization is the false stereotype of libertarianism that those who oppose it put forth to discredit us. Many, if not
          Message 4 of 17 , Oct 3, 2006
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            Which is instructive, since that characterization is the false
            stereotype of libertarianism that those who oppose it put forth to
            discredit us. Many, if not most, liberals believe this about us.

            And much of our own rhetoric can easily be interpreted this way,
            especially by those who have forgotten (or never learned) that there
            are other ways to accomplish things than government. For instance,
            most Americans are completely acclimated to the idea of universal
            public education, and can't imagine that it could be handled any
            other way. So when we say anything about separating school and
            state, they jump to the idea that we oppose education. So it is
            important (and will increasingly become more so as we grow in power
            in NH) that whenever we speak to oppose a government policy, that we
            also include a positive alternative solution to the issue or problem
            that the policy is intended to deal with.

            Also, it will become increasingly important to clarify our consistent
            positions in favor of liberty as a "brand" or package, distinct in
            itself. The Constitution Party and its ilk share much of our
            rhetoric, and many of our economic policies, and it is very easy for
            the uninformed to confuse us with them. However, they genuinely
            *are* an "extreme right-wing philosophy", based on an intolerant
            interpretation of Christianity, and advocating a U.S. government
            based on how they interpret the Bible. So any productive efforts to
            attract those who might come to us from the left will necessarily
            have to include educational information to separate us from them.

            A group of them borrowed our idea, and started a group
            called "Christian Exodus" to try to establish a Christian state in
            South Carolina. I like to refer to it as the TSP [Theocratic State
            Project]. I've directed a few people in their direction who have
            been attracted to the FSP by the economic policies of libertarianism
            but who turned out to be opposed to personal/social liberty. I don't
            know how they are doing, but I hope they succeed. I'd *love* to see
            federalism really working; to see one state dominated by the
            Constitution Party, and one by the Green Party, and one by the
            Socialist Party, and so on. We could then all see what really works
            best in a variety of ways, and those who prefer different solutions
            could all have them, and we could quit squabbling about a lot of this
            stuff.

            philb

            --- "GTriest" <garyonthenet@...> wrote:
            >
            > Omigod.
            >
            > This writer's characterization of both the FSP & Libertarianism is
            soo off-mark and aspersively slanted so as question his knowledge of
            either.
            >
            > "never contribute anything to American society"? As a libertarian
            tenet? What idiocy!
            > What Libertarianism promotes is a neutrality of obligation to
            contribute to society, there is no bar to doing so!
            > It just doesn't force people to 'contribute' to society. Forcing a
            contribution is obviously theft.
            >
            > "libertarianism is extreme right-wing philosophy" - Abbreviated BS!
            >
            > Do extreme right-wingers demand the personal liberties that
            libertarians do?
            > I don't think so, not by todays definition. And if they did, then I
            guess we ARE all xtreem rightwingers - NOT!!
            >
            > Gary T
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