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Re: Graphic Evidence

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  • Steve
    There are various freedom indexes, but I doubt they go back very far: http://www.cato.org/pubs/efw/ http://www.heritage.org/research/features/index/ An overall
    Message 1 of 8 , Mar 11, 2006
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      There are various freedom indexes, but I doubt they go back very far:
      http://www.cato.org/pubs/efw/
      http://www.heritage.org/research/features/index/

      An overall freedom index might not tell the story you want, as
      during its first century or so the US had slavery and lacked women's
      sufferage. Also, while the federal government might have been
      small, some state governments might have been a bit more obnoxious

      Constitutional amendments generally increased personal freedom until
      in 1913 the 16th Amendment created the income tax. It's been mostly
      downhill from there, with Prohibition and The New Deal being the
      most significant break points. Perhaps you can get data starting in
      1900.

      A reasonable proxy for freedom, or lack thereof, might be government
      spending as percent of GDP.

      --- In freestateproject@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Alleman"
      <Bill245@...> wrote:
      >
      > Everybody's familiar with the "Doomsday Clock," the device for
      > representing how close a group considers the world to be to
      nuclear
      > destruction, right? Or the graph showing the shifting "Tax Freedom
      Day?"
      > Well, has any political historian attempted a sort of similar
      concept to
      > demonstrate deviation from original US liberty over time? Say, a
      > timeline graph from 1776 (or even 1600, for comparison) off some
      > arbitrary axis, with positive Y as flourishing liberty, and
      negative Y
      > as encroaching statism/authoritarianism (maybe even separate ones
      for
      > economic and social liberties), with landmark events indicated. I
      can
      > suspect what it would look like, and it might be a pretty
      effective
      > marketing tool. Does anything like this exist already?
      >
      > I did find this interesting site in my search...
      > http://www.belmont.edu/lockesmith/
      > --
      >
      > --= Ya can't blame me: I vote for liberty. =--
      > BikerBill=- ©¿©¬
      > allemanse.com=-
      >
    • Chris Barnhart
      Hi fellow FreeStaters, On Friday (3-10) I heard that the NH House had a vote related to the Real ID act. The news I heard was good - they had rejected
      Message 2 of 8 , Mar 11, 2006
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        Hi fellow FreeStaters,

        On Friday (3-10) I heard that the NH House had a vote related to the
        Real ID act. The news I heard was good - they had rejected
        participating in the Real ID act! However, scanning the house
        records for Wednesday (3-8) I found the opposite:

        HB1582 : prohibiting New Hampshire from participating in a national
        identification card system.
        Bill text : http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/legislation/2006/HB1582.html

        Result : 84 yes / 217 no
        (http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/ns/rollcall/rollcallsbyvotesummary.asp?legislativebody=H)

        Was there some other bill put forward on Friday that's not yet on the
        NH House website?

        Thanks,
        Chris
      • Chris Lawless
        It was on 3/8. Check it out here: www.gencourt.state.nh.us/live/default.html. Click on afternoon session And fast forward to 4hrs and 8 minutes. The committee
        Message 3 of 8 , Mar 13, 2006
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          It was on 3/8.

          Check it out here:
          www.gencourt.state.nh.us/live/default.html.

          Click on afternoon session And fast forward to 4hrs
          and 8 minutes.

          The committee voted to ITL the bill ('don't pass') but
          the floor rejected that ITL measure, 84 yes / 217 no

          Check out NHfree.com forum with the topic

          NH HOUSE REJECTS REAL ID

          for more info.

          --- Chris Barnhart <mr.barnhart@...> wrote:

          > Hi fellow FreeStaters,
          >
          > On Friday (3-10) I heard that the NH House had a
          > vote related to the
          > Real ID act. The news I heard was good - they had
          > rejected
          > participating in the Real ID act! However, scanning
          > the house
          > records for Wednesday (3-8) I found the opposite:
          >
          > HB1582 : prohibiting New Hampshire from
          > participating in a national
          > identification card system.
          > Bill text :
          >
          http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/legislation/2006/HB1582.html
          >
          > Result : 84 yes / 217 no
          >
          (http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/ns/rollcall/rollcallsbyvotesummary.asp?legislativebody=H)
          >
          > Was there some other bill put forward on Friday
          > that's not yet on the
          > NH House website?
          >
          > Thanks,
          > Chris
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >


          __________________________________________________
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        • Karl Beisel
          Chris, There is a quirk in the way the NH legislature works that is often confusing. The full body does not vote on the bill itself, but on whether or not to
          Message 4 of 8 , Mar 13, 2006
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            Chris,

            There is a quirk in the way the NH legislature works that is often
            confusing. The full body does not vote on the bill itself, but on
            whether or not to accept the committee report. In this case the
            committee recommended the bill be killed ("Inexpedient to Legislate",
            or ITL). However, the full House disagreed with the committee and
            voted to overturn the committee report. Thus, a NAY vote is actually a
            vote in favor of the bill, and a YEA vote is a vote against it.

            I hope this clarifies things.

            - Karl

            > Hi fellow FreeStaters,
            >
            > On Friday (3-10) I heard that the NH House had a vote related to the
            > Real ID act. The news I heard was good - they had rejected
            > participating in the Real ID act! However, scanning the house
            > records for Wednesday (3-8) I found the opposite:
            >
            > HB1582 : prohibiting New Hampshire from participating in a national
            > identification card system.
            > Bill text :
            http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/legislation/2006/HB1582.html
            >
            > Result : 84 yes / 217 no
            >
            (http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/ns/rollcall/rollcallsbyvotesummary.asp?
            legislativebody=H)
            >
            > Was there some other bill put forward on Friday that's not yet on the
            > NH House website?
            >
            > Thanks,
            > Chris
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >

            --
          • David Deedon
            Try this link for the roll call vote (the one in the post does not work)
            Message 5 of 8 , Mar 13, 2006
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              Try this link for the roll call vote (the one in the post does not work)

              http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/ns/rollcall/rollcallsbyvotedetail.asp?sessionyear=2006&voteno=113&body=H

              David D
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Chris Barnhart
              To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com ; NHPorcupines-discuss@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 04:00
              Subject: [FSP] NH House Real ID vote


              Hi fellow FreeStaters,

              On Friday (3-10) I heard that the NH House had a vote related to the
              Real ID act. The news I heard was good - they had rejected
              participating in the Real ID act! However, scanning the house
              records for Wednesday (3-8) I found the opposite:

              HB1582 : prohibiting New Hampshire from participating in a national
              identification card system.
              Bill text : http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/legislation/2006/HB1582.html

              Result : 84 yes / 217 no
              (http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/ns/rollcall/rollcallsbyvotesummary.asp?legislativebody=H)

              Was there some other bill put forward on Friday that's not yet on the
              NH House website?

              Thanks,
              Chris









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            • Bill Alleman
              ... (http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/ns/rollcall/rollcallsbyvotesummary.asp?legislativebody=H) ... Fear not. How it happened was that the bill was on the
              Message 6 of 8 , Mar 13, 2006
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                Chris Barnhart wrote on 3/11/2006, 4:00 AM:

                > On Friday (3-10) I heard that the NH House had a vote related to the
                > Real ID act. The news I heard was good - they had rejected
                > participating in the Real ID act! However, scanning the house
                > records for Wednesday (3-8) I found the opposite:
                >
                > HB1582 : prohibiting New Hampshire from participating in a national
                > identification card system.
                > Bill text : http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/legislation/2006/HB1582.html
                >
                > Result : 84 yes / 217 no
                >
                (http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/ns/rollcall/rollcallsbyvotesummary.asp?legislativebody=H)

                >
                > Was there some other bill put forward on Friday that's not yet on the
                > NH House website?

                Fear not. How it happened was that the bill was on the 'Consent
                Calendar' (stuff that isn't supposed to be controversial, all voted on
                together, all up or all down) as 'ITL' ('Inexpedient To Legislate').
                First it had to be pulled off the Consent Calendar so it could be
                addressed separately. Then 'ITL' had to be voted on. It failed ("No, we
                disagree that it's inexpedient to legislate") by the margin you cite.
                Then it was moved 'OTP' ('Ought To Pass'), and another vote was taken on
                _that_ motion. It passed resoundingly, and is off to the Senate.
                --

                --= Ya can't blame me: I vote for liberty. =--
                BikerBill=- ©¿©¬
                allemanse.com=-
                --= Proud Member - Reality-Based Community =--
              • Mike Lorrey
                An excellent example of how you need to pay attention to what the bill status is coming into the vote. Whether it is OTP or ITL determines what a yea or nay
                Message 7 of 8 , Mar 13, 2006
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                  An excellent example of how you need to pay attention to what the bill
                  status is coming into the vote. Whether it is OTP or ITL determines
                  what a yea or nay vote means.

                  "See, no isn't always no!" ;)

                  --- Bill Alleman <Bill245@...> wrote:

                  >
                  > Chris Barnhart wrote on 3/11/2006, 4:00 AM:
                  >
                  > > On Friday (3-10) I heard that the NH House had a vote related to
                  > the
                  > > Real ID act. The news I heard was good - they had rejected
                  > > participating in the Real ID act! However, scanning the house
                  > > records for Wednesday (3-8) I found the opposite:
                  > >
                  > > HB1582 : prohibiting New Hampshire from participating in a
                  > national
                  > > identification card system.
                  > > Bill text :
                  > http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/legislation/2006/HB1582.html
                  > >
                  > > Result : 84 yes / 217 no
                  > >
                  >
                  (http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/ns/rollcall/rollcallsbyvotesummary.asp?legislativebody=H)
                  >
                  >
                  > >
                  > > Was there some other bill put forward on Friday that's not yet on
                  > the
                  > > NH House website?
                  >
                  > Fear not. How it happened was that the bill was on the 'Consent
                  > Calendar' (stuff that isn't supposed to be controversial, all voted
                  > on
                  > together, all up or all down) as 'ITL' ('Inexpedient To Legislate').
                  > First it had to be pulled off the Consent Calendar so it could be
                  > addressed separately. Then 'ITL' had to be voted on. It failed ("No,
                  > we
                  > disagree that it's inexpedient to legislate") by the margin you cite.
                  >
                  > Then it was moved 'OTP' ('Ought To Pass'), and another vote was taken
                  > on
                  > _that_ motion. It passed resoundingly, and is off to the Senate.
                  > --
                  >
                  > --= Ya can't blame me: I vote for liberty. =--
                  > BikerBill=- ©¿©¬
                  > allemanse.com=-
                  > --= Proud Member - Reality-Based Community =--
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  Mike Lorrey
                  President, Lorrey Aerospace
                  http://www.lorrey.biz
                  Founder, Constitution Park Foundation:
                  http://constitutionpark.blogspot.com
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