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RE: [FSP] Re: IRV in NH ABC Alphabit soup

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  • Tarnoff, Blay (IED)
    From: wolzybk ... I must disagree with this statement: although Condorcet probably does yield better results when all the participants are ranking the
    Message 1 of 15 , Feb 8, 2006
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      From: wolzybk
      >
      > [IRV] isn't as game-proof/foolproof as the Condorcet
      > system, . . . but it's not bad . . . .

      I must disagree with this statement: although Condorcet probably does
      yield better results when all the participants are ranking the
      candidates honestly, I believe it holds greater temptation for "gaming"
      than does IRV.

      I have tried to send a couple of messages explaining why, but they did
      not made it through, apparently because this subject is off topic for
      this group.

      So, if anyone is interested in why I believe IRV to be superior to
      Condorcet, from a practical standpoint, for public elections, please
      contact me offline and I will send you the three paragraph email that
      failed to make it through.

      Blay Tarnoff

      P.S. Steve writes, "Interesting idea: recount the votes using IRV."
      Well, I did that at the time and even sent an email somewhere with the
      results. Bottom line: the winner was still New Hampshire, by very
      comfortable margin, IIRC.
    • Ryan Gray
      Lost Liberty Hotel is apparently lost. http://www.yourneighborhoodnews.com/goffstown-news/2006/02/news/09-no-lost-liberty-hotel-in-weare.html
      Message 2 of 15 , Feb 9, 2006
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        Lost Liberty Hotel is apparently lost.
        http://www.yourneighborhoodnews.com/goffstown-news/2006/02/news/09-no-lost-liberty-hotel-in-weare.html

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        A managed democracy is a wonderful thing, Manuel, for the managers... and its greatest strength is a 'free press' when 'free' is defined as 'responsible' and the managers decide what is 'irresponsible'.

        Prof. Bernardo de la Paz in "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress"
        By Robert A. Heinlein

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      • Seth Cohn
        ... 1) For those of us following this closely, this isn t much of a surprise. Among other things, NH law itself already prevents the taking of land for a
        Message 3 of 15 , Feb 10, 2006
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          > Lost Liberty Hotel is apparently lost.

          1) For those of us following this closely, this isn't much of a
          surprise. Among other things, NH law itself already prevents the
          taking of land for a hotel or other 'commercial' usage.
          Even passage would have meant lawsuits and the end result would be the
          same: no hotel.

          2) This was a textbook example of why having 'outsiders' involved is a
          bad thing. If you want to do things in NH, _live_ in NH. Don't
          carpetbag. Don't visit. Move or stay out of it.
          Move to NH and learn how things work here. You'll learn lots in your
          first few years...
          All of us here are still earning at the feet of the old hands who are
          teaching us many valuable lessons.

          3) Eminent Domain reform is far from a dead issue. Souter's house is
          far from safe yet... :)

          4) People who don't understand NH Town meetings and political
          structure should stay out of the picture (see #2) (No really, see
          #2.) One person who _knows_ the system and writes extensively about
          it predicted this exact sort of outcome... but nobody on the 'hotel'
          side wanted to listen... they 'knew' better. And got spanked.)

          5) There was widespread support in general for the idea... but the
          simple majority of those who showed up at the meeting prevailed.
          Showing up is more than half the battle. This is the major lesson:
          you might have enough supporters out there, but getting them to the
          polls/meeting is 90% of the problem. GOTV. GOTV. GOTV. So long as
          the Democrats and Republicans play this game well, they win. If you
          can't successfully GOTV where you live (and I believe that's true all
          over), it's time to move to NH and help us here... the more the
          merrier..
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