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Re: [FSP] Re: New Thoughts RE Porkfest

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  • Keith Murphy
    From my perspective, it would be ideal for the Porc Fest organizers to split their speaker schedule between Friday and Saturday, finishing up at 3 pm Saturday
    Message 1 of 15 , Aug 10, 2005
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      From my perspective, it would be ideal for the Porc Fest organizers to
      split their speaker schedule between Friday and Saturday, finishing up
      at 3 pm Saturday afternoon. That would let me start the Liberty Dinner
      earlier next year, say, at about 5 pm, and finish up about 8 pm. That
      would be plenty of time to get back to Lancaster for a last night of
      socializing.

      Boom, all problems solved.

      Again, I'm more than happy to tweak the dinner schedule to avoid
      conflict to whatever extent is possible. The reason this year's dinner
      started so late was to avoid conflict with the last FSP speaker.

      Yes, Lloyd, I acknowledge that people will not come to northern NH to
      camp for a week for a three-hour dinner, but they will do it for a week
      of socializing, music, and beer with other libertarians. You're right,
      that's why the dinner must be held at the exact time that will optimize
      attendance. Restoring the dinner to it's originally planned Saturday
      time slot bumped attendance from 135 to 170. The dinner is simply one
      more option on the smorgasboard of options for Porc Fest attendees to
      choose from. They're free to attend the dinner, or to stay for the
      circle of liberty in Lancaster.

      I don't see anything wrong with giving people multiple options. It's
      the free market at work -- what are all the complaints about?

      Wait till you see who I'm trying to get for next year. They'll be
      scalping the tickets outside the front door. (wink)


      On Aug 10, 2005, at 4:19 PM, lloydbob1 wrote:

      > Its the circle of Liberty, Hardy. I understand what you are saying
      > about Sunday afternoon, but, if people are leaving as early as
      > Saturday to get home, than the're not going to the dinner anyway.
      > This first Saturday sounds good to me, but, the NHLA won't go along
      > with it because the Porkfest will not have attracted enough people by
      > the first Saturday to make the Dinner a success. That is the key to
      > this discussion. The Porkfest attracts people to attend the dinner,
      > not, the other way around. Either Thursday or Friday night would be a
      > good compromise. Saturday night is more important to the people who,
      > actually, attend Porkfest than the NHLA dinner.
    • Alan Robert Weiss
      ... If you don t want out-of-state members of the NHLA (who pay dues and who might be contributors of funds now, and labor/talent in the future), that s fine.
      Message 2 of 15 , Aug 11, 2005
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        Thomas Tuathal Simmons wrote:

        >At the risk of being shot, since I attended neither Porcfest nor the
        >dinner....
        >
        >Has anyone seriously considered *not* holding them even remotely close
        >together? Such as Porcfest in August and NHLA Dinner in Spring? (or around
        >the Primary :-) :-) :-) ???? )
        >
        >It would certainlky make it a little easier for folks to 'balance' their New
        >Hampshire interests rather than squeezing it into three days....
        >
        >Thom
        >
        >

        If you don't want out-of-state members of the NHLA (who pay dues and who
        might be contributors of funds now, and labor/talent in the future),
        that's fine.

        It cost me thousands and thousands of FRN's (dollars) for myself and my
        family to attend PorcFest this year. I daresay that making two trips to
        NH a year is an additional burden.

        At the risk of me being drawn and quartered, I did not attend the NHLA
        dinner this year (because the family declined Unanimous Consent and
        wanted to do other things), but because I was at PorcFest I re-joined
        and paid dues again. It was the availability of the dinner that I
        appreciated. I bought hats and other agit-prop tools.

        Look, it seems to me and others that the NHLA would be the "natural
        landing zone" for emigrating Porcupines as the in-gathering occurs, but
        if the NHLA wants to limit itself to existing NH residents, and not make
        accomidations with out of state members or supporters, it will never
        reach its potential. We will turn elsewhere. That is simply an
        observation. Your choice, folks.

        Having it associated with at least one other major event (PorcFest, or
        Freedom Summit) makes it much more likely to attend.

        Alan R. Weiss

        --
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        CEO, EEMBC Certification Laboratories and Synchromesh Computing
        6300 Bridgepoint Parkway
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      • Jean Alexander
        ... Is the bump not at all credited to the fact that the PF was simply bigger this year? How much do you think was related to the day of the dinner and how
        Message 3 of 15 , Aug 11, 2005
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          On Aug 11, 2005, at 1:56 AM, Keith Murphy wrote:

          > Restoring the dinner to it's originally planned Saturday
          > time slot bumped attendance from 135 to 170.

          Is the bump not at all credited to the fact that the PF was simply
          bigger this year? How much do you think was related to the day of the
          dinner and how much to a larger pool of potential attendees?

          Jean
        • Brian Sullivan
          Starting earlier sounds good. I ll make the trek, but please arrange for the college to leave the air conditioning on for the duration of the dinner - it was
          Message 4 of 15 , Aug 11, 2005
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            Starting earlier sounds good. I'll make the trek, but please arrange for
            the college to leave the air conditioning on for the duration of the
            dinner - it was very uncomfortable for many of us. And, there was no more
            water for the last 60-90 minutes.

            Brian Sullivan

            From my perspective, it would be ideal for the Porc Fest organizers to
            split their speaker schedule between Friday and Saturday, finishing up
            at 3 pm Saturday afternoon. That would let me start the Liberty Dinner
            earlier next year, say, at about 5 pm, and finish up about 8 pm. That
            would be plenty of time to get back to Lancaster for a last night of
            socializing.

            Boom, all problems solved.

            Again, I'm more than happy to tweak the dinner schedule to avoid
            conflict to whatever extent is possible. The reason this year's dinner
            started so late was to avoid conflict with the last FSP speaker.

            Yes, Lloyd, I acknowledge that people will not come to northern NH to
            camp for a week for a three-hour dinner, but they will do it for a week
            of socializing, music, and beer with other libertarians. You're right,
            that's why the dinner must be held at the exact time that will optimize
            attendance. Restoring the dinner to it's originally planned Saturday
            time slot bumped attendance from 135 to 170. The dinner is simply one
            more option on the smorgasboard of options for Porc Fest attendees to
            choose from. They're free to attend the dinner, or to stay for the
            circle of liberty in Lancaster.

            I don't see anything wrong with giving people multiple options. It's
            the free market at work -- what are all the complaints about?

            Wait till you see who I'm trying to get for next year. They'll be
            scalping the tickets outside the front door. (wink)


            On Aug 10, 2005, at 4:19 PM, lloydbob1 wrote:

            > Its the circle of Liberty, Hardy. I understand what you are saying
            > about Sunday afternoon, but, if people are leaving as early as
            > Saturday to get home, than the're not going to the dinner anyway.
            > This first Saturday sounds good to me, but, the NHLA won't go along
            > with it because the Porkfest will not have attracted enough people by
            > the first Saturday to make the Dinner a success. That is the key to
            > this discussion. The Porkfest attracts people to attend the dinner,
            > not, the other way around. Either Thursday or Friday night would be a
            > good compromise. Saturday night is more important to the people who,
            > actually, attend Porkfest than the NHLA dinner.






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          • Joel
            ... A 25% increase in attendence is impressive. But, like Jean, I don t think all of that was simply because of the day of the week. For example, isn t NHLA
            Message 5 of 15 , Aug 12, 2005
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              --- In freestateproject@yahoogroups.com, Jean Alexander
              <jeanius2@m...> wrote:
              > > On Aug 11, 2005, at 1:56 AM, Keith Murphy wrote:
              > > > Restoring the dinner to it's originally planned Saturday
              > > time slot bumped attendance from 135 to 170.
              >
              > Is the bump not at all credited to the fact that the PF was simply
              > bigger this year? How much do you think was related to the day of
              > the dinner and how much to a larger pool of potential attendees?

              A 25% increase in attendence is impressive. But, like Jean, I don't
              think all of that was simply because of the day of the week. For
              example, isn't NHLA membership up over that 1 year's time? And there
              were more awards given out this year as well. Those must have
              contributed to the increase as well.

              Joel
            • Joel
              ... From your perspective, that would be ideal. But what about the people who are not attending the dinner? The last Saturday has been the BUSIEST day of
              Message 6 of 15 , Aug 12, 2005
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                --- In freestateproject@yahoogroups.com, Keith Murphy
                <keithrmurphy@c...> wrote:
                > From my perspective, it would be ideal for the Porc Fest
                > organizers to split their speaker schedule between Friday and
                > Saturday, finishing up at 3 pm Saturday afternoon.... Boom, all
                > problems solved.

                From your perspective, that would be ideal. But what about the
                people who are not attending the dinner? The last Saturday has been
                the BUSIEST day of Porc Fest the last few years. This year, there
                were a dozen in-state Porcs who drove up for that one day. By
                cutting off all Porc Fest activities in the early afternoon, you may
                discourage NH residents from attending even the Porc Fest, as well
                as make other Porcs feel like they are left out of things if they
                don't buy a ticket to the LD.

                All this assumes that conditions in 2006 will be exactly the same as
                in 2005. If they do in fact repeat, Amy and I will not leave the
                busiest day of Porc Fest to drive to Plymouth for the Liberty
                Dinner. Keith, you throw a hell of a dinner. But for us, the
                inconvience will make the cost of a ticket too high.

                Joel





                >
                > Again, I'm more than happy to tweak the dinner schedule to avoid
                > conflict to whatever extent is possible. The reason this year's
                dinner
                > started so late was to avoid conflict with the last FSP speaker.
                >
                > Yes, Lloyd, I acknowledge that people will not come to northern NH
                to
                > camp for a week for a three-hour dinner, but they will do it for a
                week
                > of socializing, music, and beer with other libertarians. You're
                right,
                > that's why the dinner must be held at the exact time that will
                optimize
                > attendance. Restoring the dinner to it's originally planned
                Saturday
                > time slot bumped attendance from 135 to 170. The dinner is simply
                one
                > more option on the smorgasboard of options for Porc Fest attendees
                to
                > choose from. They're free to attend the dinner, or to stay for
                the
                > circle of liberty in Lancaster.
                >
                > I don't see anything wrong with giving people multiple options.
                It's
                > the free market at work -- what are all the complaints about?
                >
                > Wait till you see who I'm trying to get for next year. They'll be
                > scalping the tickets outside the front door. (wink)
                >
                >
                > On Aug 10, 2005, at 4:19 PM, lloydbob1 wrote:
                >
                > > Its the circle of Liberty, Hardy. I understand what you are
                saying
                > > about Sunday afternoon, but, if people are leaving as early as
                > > Saturday to get home, than the're not going to the dinner anyway.
                > > This first Saturday sounds good to me, but, the NHLA won't go
                along
                > > with it because the Porkfest will not have attracted enough
                people by
                > > the first Saturday to make the Dinner a success. That is the
                key to
                > > this discussion. The Porkfest attracts people to attend the
                dinner,
                > > not, the other way around. Either Thursday or Friday night would
                be a
                > > good compromise. Saturday night is more important to the people
                who,
                > > actually, attend Porkfest than the NHLA dinner.
              • Keith Murphy
                OK, let me say this one more time. I only care about one thing: making the attendance for the Liberty Dinner the highest it can possibly be. That s it. Nothing
                Message 7 of 15 , Aug 12, 2005
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                  OK, let me say this one more time.

                  I only care about one thing: making the attendance for the Liberty
                  Dinner the highest it can possibly be.

                  That's it.

                  Nothing else.

                  I only care about Porc Fest scheduling, and the people who choose not
                  to attend the dinner (choice being the operative word) to the extent
                  that these factors interact with the dinner attendance. I don't really
                  care about the Porc Fest drive, location, schedule, speakers, or
                  anything else except for how they impact attendance. I realize I may
                  lose a few people next year who decide to stay in Lancaster, but I
                  could reasonably expect to lose 40-odd native NH residents if I
                  switched to Friday.

                  We can't have the dinner Friday night without severely impacting the
                  attendance from natives who are not staying up at Lancaster, and I
                  can't have it Sunday without severely impacting the attendance from
                  visiting FSP members. I have yet to hear a compelling argument for a
                  time slot other than Saturday evening -- at least one not based on the
                  personal interests of a few. I must overlook the interests of a few
                  and do what is best for the entire NHLA, and that means Saturday
                  evening.

                  Joel, I'm sorry that the drive to Lancaster is long, but I have no
                  control over the basic laws of geography and physics. If you choose
                  not to attend the dinner (there's that word again) due to timing or
                  distance concerns, then I respect your decision.

                  On Aug 12, 2005, at 3:38 PM, Joel wrote:

                  > --- In freestateproject@yahoogroups.com, Keith Murphy
                  > <keithrmurphy@c...> wrote:
                  >> From my perspective, it would be ideal for the Porc Fest
                  >> organizers to split their speaker schedule between Friday and
                  >> Saturday, finishing up at 3 pm Saturday afternoon.... Boom, all
                  >> problems solved.
                  >
                  > From your perspective, that would be ideal.

                  From the perspective of the NHLA's bank account and political power
                  base, as well.

                  > But what about the
                  > people who are not attending the dinner?

                  Why would I care about people that are not attending the dinner? I'm
                  not working for them.

                  > The last Saturday has been
                  > the BUSIEST day of Porc Fest the last few years.

                  Yes, and the Liberty Dinner is just one more thing on the smorgasboard
                  for them to consider. Come, or don't. It's up to each individual.
                  It's not as if the FSP has a copyright on Saturday night. Other
                  completely distinct organizations have an equal right to schedule
                  events for that evening, if it suits them. Look at it this way: next
                  year's Porc Fest organizers have a full year's notice that the Liberty
                  Dinner will be held on the second Saturday evening, likely between 5 pm
                  and 8 pm. Maybe the organizers will take that into consideration.
                  That's up to them.

                  Tell you what -- if 150 people email me that they will come to the
                  Liberty Dinner if it is held on Friday evening next year, AND I can get
                  two great speakers for a Friday evening (assuredly harder to book than
                  a Saturday) I'll make the switch. Happily.

                  > This year, there
                  > were a dozen in-state Porcs who drove up for that one day. By
                  > cutting off all Porc Fest activities in the early afternoon, you may
                  > discourage NH residents from attending even the Porc Fest, as well
                  > as make other Porcs feel like they are left out of things if they
                  > don't buy a ticket to the LD.

                  1. In my opinion, anyone who doesn't buy a ticket to the Liberty
                  Dinner IS indeed missing a good event for a great cause. Although, to
                  be fair, some have said that they didn't go to the dinner and don't
                  regret their decision. Which is entirely their choice, and one that I
                  respect.

                  2. Hope this doesn't sound harsh, but I don't care about the impact on
                  Porc Fest. I don't work for the FSP, I work for the NHLA. Usually
                  what's good for one is good for both, and that's just great. In this
                  instance that's not the case. I'm not going to do something wrong for
                  the NHLA, and I don't expect the Porc Fest organizers to do wrong by
                  the FSP.

                  >
                  > All this assumes that conditions in 2006 will be exactly the same as
                  > in 2005. If they do in fact repeat, Amy and I will not leave the
                  > busiest day of Porc Fest to drive to Plymouth for the Liberty
                  > Dinner. Keith, you throw a hell of a dinner. But for us, the
                  > inconvience will make the cost of a ticket too high.

                  Again, I will be thrilled to work with the 2006 Porc Fest Czar to
                  minimize or eliminate conflict with the scheduled slate of speakers.
                  However, if that once again proves impossible, and people are forced to
                  choose between the Liberty Dinner and socializing at Porc Fest...

                  Well, I don't begrudge anyone that decision, yourself included. Hope
                  you can make it next year.
                • redbeardsm@aol.com
                  I got WAY behind on my emails, and am just now catching up from the summer. I saw the title of this message and my first thought was Porkfest? What does the
                  Message 8 of 15 , Aug 12, 2005
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                    I got WAY behind on my emails, and am just now catching up from the summer.

                    I saw the title of this message and my first thought was "Porkfest? What does
                    the "transportation" bill have to do with the FSP? Then I read the message
                    and found out that Por"C"fest was the topic.

                    Scott


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