Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: New Thoughts RE Porkfest

Expand Messages
  • Hardy Machia
    ... I don t see how this helps anything from NHLA s point of view. If they have it on the last Sunday then people will be leaving the PorcFest Sunday morning
    Message 1 of 15 , Aug 10, 2005
    • 0 Attachment
      Lloyd wrote:
      >Jane's suggestion of having the NHLA dinner on the Sunday following
      >Porkfest is a stroke of genius! Combine this with loosing the
      >scheduled visiting of towns, leaving it to the individuals, all of
      >the problems with Rogers are solved.

      I don't see how this helps anything from NHLA's point of view. If
      they have it on the last Sunday then people will be leaving the
      PorcFest Sunday morning to get home for work on Monday. There were
      some people that left Saturday afternoon this year so they could get
      home for work on Monday.

      Maybe having the NHLA dinner the first Saturday of Porc Fest then the
      people that are there for the whole week have something to do the
      first weekend.

      I don't see the big deal with having it on Saturday night of the last
      weekend. So we miss the circle of light? We were able to get back in
      time for it this year and it continued for another couple hours.

      Hardy

      --
      ______________________________________________________________________________
      Hardy Machia * Catamount Software * Liberty in our lifetime
      802-372-9512 * www.catamount.com * www.freestateproject.org
    • Thomas Tuathal Simmons
      At the risk of being shot, since I attended neither Porcfest nor the dinner.... Has anyone seriously considered *not* holding them even remotely close
      Message 2 of 15 , Aug 10, 2005
      • 0 Attachment
        At the risk of being shot, since I attended neither Porcfest nor the
        dinner....

        Has anyone seriously considered *not* holding them even remotely close
        together? Such as Porcfest in August and NHLA Dinner in Spring? (or around
        the Primary :-) :-) :-) ???? )

        It would certainlky make it a little easier for folks to 'balance' their New
        Hampshire interests rather than squeezing it into three days....

        Thom

        -----Original Message-----
        From: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
        [mailto:freestateproject@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Hardy Machia
        Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 8:50 AM
        To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [FSP] Re: New Thoughts RE Porkfest


        Lloyd wrote:
        >Jane's suggestion of having the NHLA dinner on the Sunday following
        >Porkfest is a stroke of genius! Combine this with loosing the
        >scheduled visiting of towns, leaving it to the individuals, all of
        >the problems with Rogers are solved.

        I don't see how this helps anything from NHLA's point of view. If
        they have it on the last Sunday then people will be leaving the
        PorcFest Sunday morning to get home for work on Monday. There were
        some people that left Saturday afternoon this year so they could get
        home for work on Monday.

        Maybe having the NHLA dinner the first Saturday of Porc Fest then the
        people that are there for the whole week have something to do the
        first weekend.

        I don't see the big deal with having it on Saturday night of the last
        weekend. So we miss the circle of light? We were able to get back in
        time for it this year and it continued for another couple hours.

        Hardy

        --
        ____________________________________________________________________________
        __
        Hardy Machia * Catamount Software * Liberty in our lifetime
        802-372-9512 * www.catamount.com * www.freestateproject.org




        ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
        ----
        YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

        a.. Visit your group "freestateproject" on the web.

        b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        freestateproject-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

        c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


        ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
        ----



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • lloydbob1
        Its the circle of Liberty, Hardy. I understand what you are saying about Sunday afternoon, but, if people are leaving as early as Saturday to get home, than
        Message 3 of 15 , Aug 10, 2005
        • 0 Attachment
          Its the circle of Liberty, Hardy. I understand what you are saying
          about Sunday afternoon, but, if people are leaving as early as
          Saturday to get home, than the're not going to the dinner anyway.
          This first Saturday sounds good to me, but, the NHLA won't go along
          with it because the Porkfest will not have attracted enough people by
          the first Saturday to make the Dinner a success. That is the key to
          this discussion. The Porkfest attracts people to attend the dinner,
          not, the other way around. Either Thursday or Friday night would be a
          good compromise. Saturday night is more important to the people who,
          actually, attend Porkfest than the NHLA dinner.

          --- In freestateproject@yahoogroups.com, Hardy Machia <hardy2@c...>
          wrote:
          > Lloyd wrote:
          > >Jane's suggestion of having the NHLA dinner on the Sunday following
          > >Porkfest is a stroke of genius! Combine this with loosing the
          > >scheduled visiting of towns, leaving it to the individuals, all of
          > >the problems with Rogers are solved.
          >
          > I don't see how this helps anything from NHLA's point of view. If
          > they have it on the last Sunday then people will be leaving the
          > PorcFest Sunday morning to get home for work on Monday. There were
          > some people that left Saturday afternoon this year so they could
          get
          > home for work on Monday.
          >
          > Maybe having the NHLA dinner the first Saturday of Porc Fest then
          the
          > people that are there for the whole week have something to do the
          > first weekend.
          >
          > I don't see the big deal with having it on Saturday night of the
          last
          > weekend. So we miss the circle of light? We were able to get back
          in
          > time for it this year and it continued for another couple hours.
          >
          > Hardy
          >
          > --
          >
          ______________________________________________________________________
          ________
          > Hardy Machia * Catamount Software * Liberty in our
          lifetime
          > 802-372-9512 * www.catamount.com *
          www.freestateproject.org
        • Keith Murphy
          From my perspective, it would be ideal for the Porc Fest organizers to split their speaker schedule between Friday and Saturday, finishing up at 3 pm Saturday
          Message 4 of 15 , Aug 10, 2005
          • 0 Attachment
            From my perspective, it would be ideal for the Porc Fest organizers to
            split their speaker schedule between Friday and Saturday, finishing up
            at 3 pm Saturday afternoon. That would let me start the Liberty Dinner
            earlier next year, say, at about 5 pm, and finish up about 8 pm. That
            would be plenty of time to get back to Lancaster for a last night of
            socializing.

            Boom, all problems solved.

            Again, I'm more than happy to tweak the dinner schedule to avoid
            conflict to whatever extent is possible. The reason this year's dinner
            started so late was to avoid conflict with the last FSP speaker.

            Yes, Lloyd, I acknowledge that people will not come to northern NH to
            camp for a week for a three-hour dinner, but they will do it for a week
            of socializing, music, and beer with other libertarians. You're right,
            that's why the dinner must be held at the exact time that will optimize
            attendance. Restoring the dinner to it's originally planned Saturday
            time slot bumped attendance from 135 to 170. The dinner is simply one
            more option on the smorgasboard of options for Porc Fest attendees to
            choose from. They're free to attend the dinner, or to stay for the
            circle of liberty in Lancaster.

            I don't see anything wrong with giving people multiple options. It's
            the free market at work -- what are all the complaints about?

            Wait till you see who I'm trying to get for next year. They'll be
            scalping the tickets outside the front door. (wink)


            On Aug 10, 2005, at 4:19 PM, lloydbob1 wrote:

            > Its the circle of Liberty, Hardy. I understand what you are saying
            > about Sunday afternoon, but, if people are leaving as early as
            > Saturday to get home, than the're not going to the dinner anyway.
            > This first Saturday sounds good to me, but, the NHLA won't go along
            > with it because the Porkfest will not have attracted enough people by
            > the first Saturday to make the Dinner a success. That is the key to
            > this discussion. The Porkfest attracts people to attend the dinner,
            > not, the other way around. Either Thursday or Friday night would be a
            > good compromise. Saturday night is more important to the people who,
            > actually, attend Porkfest than the NHLA dinner.
          • Alan Robert Weiss
            ... If you don t want out-of-state members of the NHLA (who pay dues and who might be contributors of funds now, and labor/talent in the future), that s fine.
            Message 5 of 15 , Aug 11, 2005
            • 0 Attachment
              Thomas Tuathal Simmons wrote:

              >At the risk of being shot, since I attended neither Porcfest nor the
              >dinner....
              >
              >Has anyone seriously considered *not* holding them even remotely close
              >together? Such as Porcfest in August and NHLA Dinner in Spring? (or around
              >the Primary :-) :-) :-) ???? )
              >
              >It would certainlky make it a little easier for folks to 'balance' their New
              >Hampshire interests rather than squeezing it into three days....
              >
              >Thom
              >
              >

              If you don't want out-of-state members of the NHLA (who pay dues and who
              might be contributors of funds now, and labor/talent in the future),
              that's fine.

              It cost me thousands and thousands of FRN's (dollars) for myself and my
              family to attend PorcFest this year. I daresay that making two trips to
              NH a year is an additional burden.

              At the risk of me being drawn and quartered, I did not attend the NHLA
              dinner this year (because the family declined Unanimous Consent and
              wanted to do other things), but because I was at PorcFest I re-joined
              and paid dues again. It was the availability of the dinner that I
              appreciated. I bought hats and other agit-prop tools.

              Look, it seems to me and others that the NHLA would be the "natural
              landing zone" for emigrating Porcupines as the in-gathering occurs, but
              if the NHLA wants to limit itself to existing NH residents, and not make
              accomidations with out of state members or supporters, it will never
              reach its potential. We will turn elsewhere. That is simply an
              observation. Your choice, folks.

              Having it associated with at least one other major event (PorcFest, or
              Freedom Summit) makes it much more likely to attend.

              Alan R. Weiss

              --
              Alan R. Weiss
              CEO, EEMBC Certification Laboratories and Synchromesh Computing
              6300 Bridgepoint Parkway
              Bridgepoint Square One, Suite 125
              Austin, Texas 78730 USA
              Voice: 512-219-0302 Fax: 512-219-0402
              Mobile: 512-512-6507
              email: alan@... or aweiss@...
              or alan@...


              ECL: http://www.ebenchmarks.com EEMBC: http://www.eembc.org
              Synchromesh Computing: http://www.synchromeshcomputing.com
            • Jean Alexander
              ... Is the bump not at all credited to the fact that the PF was simply bigger this year? How much do you think was related to the day of the dinner and how
              Message 6 of 15 , Aug 11, 2005
              • 0 Attachment
                On Aug 11, 2005, at 1:56 AM, Keith Murphy wrote:

                > Restoring the dinner to it's originally planned Saturday
                > time slot bumped attendance from 135 to 170.

                Is the bump not at all credited to the fact that the PF was simply
                bigger this year? How much do you think was related to the day of the
                dinner and how much to a larger pool of potential attendees?

                Jean
              • Brian Sullivan
                Starting earlier sounds good. I ll make the trek, but please arrange for the college to leave the air conditioning on for the duration of the dinner - it was
                Message 7 of 15 , Aug 11, 2005
                • 0 Attachment
                  Starting earlier sounds good. I'll make the trek, but please arrange for
                  the college to leave the air conditioning on for the duration of the
                  dinner - it was very uncomfortable for many of us. And, there was no more
                  water for the last 60-90 minutes.

                  Brian Sullivan

                  From my perspective, it would be ideal for the Porc Fest organizers to
                  split their speaker schedule between Friday and Saturday, finishing up
                  at 3 pm Saturday afternoon. That would let me start the Liberty Dinner
                  earlier next year, say, at about 5 pm, and finish up about 8 pm. That
                  would be plenty of time to get back to Lancaster for a last night of
                  socializing.

                  Boom, all problems solved.

                  Again, I'm more than happy to tweak the dinner schedule to avoid
                  conflict to whatever extent is possible. The reason this year's dinner
                  started so late was to avoid conflict with the last FSP speaker.

                  Yes, Lloyd, I acknowledge that people will not come to northern NH to
                  camp for a week for a three-hour dinner, but they will do it for a week
                  of socializing, music, and beer with other libertarians. You're right,
                  that's why the dinner must be held at the exact time that will optimize
                  attendance. Restoring the dinner to it's originally planned Saturday
                  time slot bumped attendance from 135 to 170. The dinner is simply one
                  more option on the smorgasboard of options for Porc Fest attendees to
                  choose from. They're free to attend the dinner, or to stay for the
                  circle of liberty in Lancaster.

                  I don't see anything wrong with giving people multiple options. It's
                  the free market at work -- what are all the complaints about?

                  Wait till you see who I'm trying to get for next year. They'll be
                  scalping the tickets outside the front door. (wink)


                  On Aug 10, 2005, at 4:19 PM, lloydbob1 wrote:

                  > Its the circle of Liberty, Hardy. I understand what you are saying
                  > about Sunday afternoon, but, if people are leaving as early as
                  > Saturday to get home, than the're not going to the dinner anyway.
                  > This first Saturday sounds good to me, but, the NHLA won't go along
                  > with it because the Porkfest will not have attracted enough people by
                  > the first Saturday to make the Dinner a success. That is the key to
                  > this discussion. The Porkfest attracts people to attend the dinner,
                  > not, the other way around. Either Thursday or Friday night would be a
                  > good compromise. Saturday night is more important to the people who,
                  > actually, attend Porkfest than the NHLA dinner.






                  SPONSORED LINKS
                  Politics
                  <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Politics&w1=Politics&w2=Government&w3=A
                  merican+politics&c=3&s=53&.sig=u68Im0gBlcTVtjEa9VaT9Q>
                  Government
                  <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Government&w1=Politics&w2=Government&w3
                  =American+politics&c=3&s=53&.sig=oyHwGsPIiwyQVqPWgHUcbg>
                  American politics
                  <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=American+politics&w1=Politics&w2=Govern
                  ment&w3=American+politics&c=3&s=53&.sig=8XwmwreevCrljKSxkNbROQ>

                  _____

                  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

                  * Visit your group " freestateproject
                  <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freestateproject> " on the web.

                  * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  freestateproject-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  <mailto:freestateproject-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

                  * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
                  <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

                  _____



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Joel
                  ... A 25% increase in attendence is impressive. But, like Jean, I don t think all of that was simply because of the day of the week. For example, isn t NHLA
                  Message 8 of 15 , Aug 12, 2005
                  • 0 Attachment
                    --- In freestateproject@yahoogroups.com, Jean Alexander
                    <jeanius2@m...> wrote:
                    > > On Aug 11, 2005, at 1:56 AM, Keith Murphy wrote:
                    > > > Restoring the dinner to it's originally planned Saturday
                    > > time slot bumped attendance from 135 to 170.
                    >
                    > Is the bump not at all credited to the fact that the PF was simply
                    > bigger this year? How much do you think was related to the day of
                    > the dinner and how much to a larger pool of potential attendees?

                    A 25% increase in attendence is impressive. But, like Jean, I don't
                    think all of that was simply because of the day of the week. For
                    example, isn't NHLA membership up over that 1 year's time? And there
                    were more awards given out this year as well. Those must have
                    contributed to the increase as well.

                    Joel
                  • Joel
                    ... From your perspective, that would be ideal. But what about the people who are not attending the dinner? The last Saturday has been the BUSIEST day of
                    Message 9 of 15 , Aug 12, 2005
                    • 0 Attachment
                      --- In freestateproject@yahoogroups.com, Keith Murphy
                      <keithrmurphy@c...> wrote:
                      > From my perspective, it would be ideal for the Porc Fest
                      > organizers to split their speaker schedule between Friday and
                      > Saturday, finishing up at 3 pm Saturday afternoon.... Boom, all
                      > problems solved.

                      From your perspective, that would be ideal. But what about the
                      people who are not attending the dinner? The last Saturday has been
                      the BUSIEST day of Porc Fest the last few years. This year, there
                      were a dozen in-state Porcs who drove up for that one day. By
                      cutting off all Porc Fest activities in the early afternoon, you may
                      discourage NH residents from attending even the Porc Fest, as well
                      as make other Porcs feel like they are left out of things if they
                      don't buy a ticket to the LD.

                      All this assumes that conditions in 2006 will be exactly the same as
                      in 2005. If they do in fact repeat, Amy and I will not leave the
                      busiest day of Porc Fest to drive to Plymouth for the Liberty
                      Dinner. Keith, you throw a hell of a dinner. But for us, the
                      inconvience will make the cost of a ticket too high.

                      Joel





                      >
                      > Again, I'm more than happy to tweak the dinner schedule to avoid
                      > conflict to whatever extent is possible. The reason this year's
                      dinner
                      > started so late was to avoid conflict with the last FSP speaker.
                      >
                      > Yes, Lloyd, I acknowledge that people will not come to northern NH
                      to
                      > camp for a week for a three-hour dinner, but they will do it for a
                      week
                      > of socializing, music, and beer with other libertarians. You're
                      right,
                      > that's why the dinner must be held at the exact time that will
                      optimize
                      > attendance. Restoring the dinner to it's originally planned
                      Saturday
                      > time slot bumped attendance from 135 to 170. The dinner is simply
                      one
                      > more option on the smorgasboard of options for Porc Fest attendees
                      to
                      > choose from. They're free to attend the dinner, or to stay for
                      the
                      > circle of liberty in Lancaster.
                      >
                      > I don't see anything wrong with giving people multiple options.
                      It's
                      > the free market at work -- what are all the complaints about?
                      >
                      > Wait till you see who I'm trying to get for next year. They'll be
                      > scalping the tickets outside the front door. (wink)
                      >
                      >
                      > On Aug 10, 2005, at 4:19 PM, lloydbob1 wrote:
                      >
                      > > Its the circle of Liberty, Hardy. I understand what you are
                      saying
                      > > about Sunday afternoon, but, if people are leaving as early as
                      > > Saturday to get home, than the're not going to the dinner anyway.
                      > > This first Saturday sounds good to me, but, the NHLA won't go
                      along
                      > > with it because the Porkfest will not have attracted enough
                      people by
                      > > the first Saturday to make the Dinner a success. That is the
                      key to
                      > > this discussion. The Porkfest attracts people to attend the
                      dinner,
                      > > not, the other way around. Either Thursday or Friday night would
                      be a
                      > > good compromise. Saturday night is more important to the people
                      who,
                      > > actually, attend Porkfest than the NHLA dinner.
                    • Keith Murphy
                      OK, let me say this one more time. I only care about one thing: making the attendance for the Liberty Dinner the highest it can possibly be. That s it. Nothing
                      Message 10 of 15 , Aug 12, 2005
                      • 0 Attachment
                        OK, let me say this one more time.

                        I only care about one thing: making the attendance for the Liberty
                        Dinner the highest it can possibly be.

                        That's it.

                        Nothing else.

                        I only care about Porc Fest scheduling, and the people who choose not
                        to attend the dinner (choice being the operative word) to the extent
                        that these factors interact with the dinner attendance. I don't really
                        care about the Porc Fest drive, location, schedule, speakers, or
                        anything else except for how they impact attendance. I realize I may
                        lose a few people next year who decide to stay in Lancaster, but I
                        could reasonably expect to lose 40-odd native NH residents if I
                        switched to Friday.

                        We can't have the dinner Friday night without severely impacting the
                        attendance from natives who are not staying up at Lancaster, and I
                        can't have it Sunday without severely impacting the attendance from
                        visiting FSP members. I have yet to hear a compelling argument for a
                        time slot other than Saturday evening -- at least one not based on the
                        personal interests of a few. I must overlook the interests of a few
                        and do what is best for the entire NHLA, and that means Saturday
                        evening.

                        Joel, I'm sorry that the drive to Lancaster is long, but I have no
                        control over the basic laws of geography and physics. If you choose
                        not to attend the dinner (there's that word again) due to timing or
                        distance concerns, then I respect your decision.

                        On Aug 12, 2005, at 3:38 PM, Joel wrote:

                        > --- In freestateproject@yahoogroups.com, Keith Murphy
                        > <keithrmurphy@c...> wrote:
                        >> From my perspective, it would be ideal for the Porc Fest
                        >> organizers to split their speaker schedule between Friday and
                        >> Saturday, finishing up at 3 pm Saturday afternoon.... Boom, all
                        >> problems solved.
                        >
                        > From your perspective, that would be ideal.

                        From the perspective of the NHLA's bank account and political power
                        base, as well.

                        > But what about the
                        > people who are not attending the dinner?

                        Why would I care about people that are not attending the dinner? I'm
                        not working for them.

                        > The last Saturday has been
                        > the BUSIEST day of Porc Fest the last few years.

                        Yes, and the Liberty Dinner is just one more thing on the smorgasboard
                        for them to consider. Come, or don't. It's up to each individual.
                        It's not as if the FSP has a copyright on Saturday night. Other
                        completely distinct organizations have an equal right to schedule
                        events for that evening, if it suits them. Look at it this way: next
                        year's Porc Fest organizers have a full year's notice that the Liberty
                        Dinner will be held on the second Saturday evening, likely between 5 pm
                        and 8 pm. Maybe the organizers will take that into consideration.
                        That's up to them.

                        Tell you what -- if 150 people email me that they will come to the
                        Liberty Dinner if it is held on Friday evening next year, AND I can get
                        two great speakers for a Friday evening (assuredly harder to book than
                        a Saturday) I'll make the switch. Happily.

                        > This year, there
                        > were a dozen in-state Porcs who drove up for that one day. By
                        > cutting off all Porc Fest activities in the early afternoon, you may
                        > discourage NH residents from attending even the Porc Fest, as well
                        > as make other Porcs feel like they are left out of things if they
                        > don't buy a ticket to the LD.

                        1. In my opinion, anyone who doesn't buy a ticket to the Liberty
                        Dinner IS indeed missing a good event for a great cause. Although, to
                        be fair, some have said that they didn't go to the dinner and don't
                        regret their decision. Which is entirely their choice, and one that I
                        respect.

                        2. Hope this doesn't sound harsh, but I don't care about the impact on
                        Porc Fest. I don't work for the FSP, I work for the NHLA. Usually
                        what's good for one is good for both, and that's just great. In this
                        instance that's not the case. I'm not going to do something wrong for
                        the NHLA, and I don't expect the Porc Fest organizers to do wrong by
                        the FSP.

                        >
                        > All this assumes that conditions in 2006 will be exactly the same as
                        > in 2005. If they do in fact repeat, Amy and I will not leave the
                        > busiest day of Porc Fest to drive to Plymouth for the Liberty
                        > Dinner. Keith, you throw a hell of a dinner. But for us, the
                        > inconvience will make the cost of a ticket too high.

                        Again, I will be thrilled to work with the 2006 Porc Fest Czar to
                        minimize or eliminate conflict with the scheduled slate of speakers.
                        However, if that once again proves impossible, and people are forced to
                        choose between the Liberty Dinner and socializing at Porc Fest...

                        Well, I don't begrudge anyone that decision, yourself included. Hope
                        you can make it next year.
                      • redbeardsm@aol.com
                        I got WAY behind on my emails, and am just now catching up from the summer. I saw the title of this message and my first thought was Porkfest? What does the
                        Message 11 of 15 , Aug 12, 2005
                        • 0 Attachment
                          I got WAY behind on my emails, and am just now catching up from the summer.

                          I saw the title of this message and my first thought was "Porkfest? What does
                          the "transportation" bill have to do with the FSP? Then I read the message
                          and found out that Por"C"fest was the topic.

                          Scott


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.