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Re: [FSP] New Thoughts RE Porkfest

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  • Jane
    ... Hey Keith, what do you think about that? Yes, Lloyd then we could truly have a rest , and have time and energy to pack up and head home since Plymouth is
    Message 1 of 15 , Aug 9 1:01 PM
      On Aug 9, 2005, at 3:01 PM, lloydbob1 wrote:

      > Jane's suggestion of having the NHLA dinner on the Sunday following
      > Porkfest is a stroke of genius! Combine this with loosing the
      > scheduled visiting of towns, leaving it to the individuals, all of
      > the problems with Rogers are solved.

      Hey Keith, what do you think about that?

      Yes, Lloyd then we could truly have a 'rest', and have time and energy
      to pack up and head home since Plymouth is nearer to where most live.
      It could even be at 4 PM for drinks first or even later, giving us
      plenty of time to SLEEP too. Out-of-staters would be heading SOUTH to
      the airport in Concord or Manchester anyway! Even just packing up my
      room without having anywhere to go was a daunting task on the last day.
      (You know how it always is that the car gets packed to the hilt on the
      way up, but then you can't seem to get it all back in on the way home?
      LOL)

      Day trips are not really the responsibility of the FSP -- people can do
      those when and where they want, before, after, or during. They could
      hook up with people who wish to give tours in the individual towns and
      cities they wish to see. This could be arranged ahead of time via email
      and the forums. People giving tours don't even need to BE at PorcFest
      itself...but just be there to host the touring families.

      I vote for Roger's again, otherwise, what's the point of my going
      'away' if it's 30-60 miles from me and someplace I see all the time?

      Also I'd like to see an organized hospitality cabin permanently set up
      at the front, (with LloydBob's canopy over the tables) where we could
      meet and greet newcomers to the Fest each night and share food/grilling
      or not. (They could rent a long grille like they use at BBQs for the
      public) Let Dawn and Bill or whoever is doing the check-in, be at peace
      at a different cabin, but right next to the hospitality cabin. They
      must have been overwhelmed and didn't need to play food hosts as well!
      (Although they never complained)

      Where else but Roger's has all this stuff where we can set up?
      Then you've got your campsites, primitive or otherwise and a hotel
      right on the premises...well, more than that you cannot ask for.

      Sure the food stinks in the cafe, but there is Dunkin's for breakfast
      and good coffee and Shaw's/Liquor store for the rest of the food
      downtown and even a few restaurants for those who want a night out. I
      even brewed my own Dunkin's coffee in my room so I could have it right
      away.

      And yes, I ate like a piggie that week, but it's PorcFest with a 'c'
      ... LOL!
      Back to dieting again. :-)
    • Hardy Machia
      ... I don t see how this helps anything from NHLA s point of view. If they have it on the last Sunday then people will be leaving the PorcFest Sunday morning
      Message 2 of 15 , Aug 10 5:50 AM
        Lloyd wrote:
        >Jane's suggestion of having the NHLA dinner on the Sunday following
        >Porkfest is a stroke of genius! Combine this with loosing the
        >scheduled visiting of towns, leaving it to the individuals, all of
        >the problems with Rogers are solved.

        I don't see how this helps anything from NHLA's point of view. If
        they have it on the last Sunday then people will be leaving the
        PorcFest Sunday morning to get home for work on Monday. There were
        some people that left Saturday afternoon this year so they could get
        home for work on Monday.

        Maybe having the NHLA dinner the first Saturday of Porc Fest then the
        people that are there for the whole week have something to do the
        first weekend.

        I don't see the big deal with having it on Saturday night of the last
        weekend. So we miss the circle of light? We were able to get back in
        time for it this year and it continued for another couple hours.

        Hardy

        --
        ______________________________________________________________________________
        Hardy Machia * Catamount Software * Liberty in our lifetime
        802-372-9512 * www.catamount.com * www.freestateproject.org
      • Thomas Tuathal Simmons
        At the risk of being shot, since I attended neither Porcfest nor the dinner.... Has anyone seriously considered *not* holding them even remotely close
        Message 3 of 15 , Aug 10 1:00 PM
          At the risk of being shot, since I attended neither Porcfest nor the
          dinner....

          Has anyone seriously considered *not* holding them even remotely close
          together? Such as Porcfest in August and NHLA Dinner in Spring? (or around
          the Primary :-) :-) :-) ???? )

          It would certainlky make it a little easier for folks to 'balance' their New
          Hampshire interests rather than squeezing it into three days....

          Thom

          -----Original Message-----
          From: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
          [mailto:freestateproject@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Hardy Machia
          Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 8:50 AM
          To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [FSP] Re: New Thoughts RE Porkfest


          Lloyd wrote:
          >Jane's suggestion of having the NHLA dinner on the Sunday following
          >Porkfest is a stroke of genius! Combine this with loosing the
          >scheduled visiting of towns, leaving it to the individuals, all of
          >the problems with Rogers are solved.

          I don't see how this helps anything from NHLA's point of view. If
          they have it on the last Sunday then people will be leaving the
          PorcFest Sunday morning to get home for work on Monday. There were
          some people that left Saturday afternoon this year so they could get
          home for work on Monday.

          Maybe having the NHLA dinner the first Saturday of Porc Fest then the
          people that are there for the whole week have something to do the
          first weekend.

          I don't see the big deal with having it on Saturday night of the last
          weekend. So we miss the circle of light? We were able to get back in
          time for it this year and it continued for another couple hours.

          Hardy

          --
          ____________________________________________________________________________
          __
          Hardy Machia * Catamount Software * Liberty in our lifetime
          802-372-9512 * www.catamount.com * www.freestateproject.org




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        • lloydbob1
          Its the circle of Liberty, Hardy. I understand what you are saying about Sunday afternoon, but, if people are leaving as early as Saturday to get home, than
          Message 4 of 15 , Aug 10 1:19 PM
            Its the circle of Liberty, Hardy. I understand what you are saying
            about Sunday afternoon, but, if people are leaving as early as
            Saturday to get home, than the're not going to the dinner anyway.
            This first Saturday sounds good to me, but, the NHLA won't go along
            with it because the Porkfest will not have attracted enough people by
            the first Saturday to make the Dinner a success. That is the key to
            this discussion. The Porkfest attracts people to attend the dinner,
            not, the other way around. Either Thursday or Friday night would be a
            good compromise. Saturday night is more important to the people who,
            actually, attend Porkfest than the NHLA dinner.

            --- In freestateproject@yahoogroups.com, Hardy Machia <hardy2@c...>
            wrote:
            > Lloyd wrote:
            > >Jane's suggestion of having the NHLA dinner on the Sunday following
            > >Porkfest is a stroke of genius! Combine this with loosing the
            > >scheduled visiting of towns, leaving it to the individuals, all of
            > >the problems with Rogers are solved.
            >
            > I don't see how this helps anything from NHLA's point of view. If
            > they have it on the last Sunday then people will be leaving the
            > PorcFest Sunday morning to get home for work on Monday. There were
            > some people that left Saturday afternoon this year so they could
            get
            > home for work on Monday.
            >
            > Maybe having the NHLA dinner the first Saturday of Porc Fest then
            the
            > people that are there for the whole week have something to do the
            > first weekend.
            >
            > I don't see the big deal with having it on Saturday night of the
            last
            > weekend. So we miss the circle of light? We were able to get back
            in
            > time for it this year and it continued for another couple hours.
            >
            > Hardy
            >
            > --
            >
            ______________________________________________________________________
            ________
            > Hardy Machia * Catamount Software * Liberty in our
            lifetime
            > 802-372-9512 * www.catamount.com *
            www.freestateproject.org
          • Keith Murphy
            From my perspective, it would be ideal for the Porc Fest organizers to split their speaker schedule between Friday and Saturday, finishing up at 3 pm Saturday
            Message 5 of 15 , Aug 10 10:56 PM
              From my perspective, it would be ideal for the Porc Fest organizers to
              split their speaker schedule between Friday and Saturday, finishing up
              at 3 pm Saturday afternoon. That would let me start the Liberty Dinner
              earlier next year, say, at about 5 pm, and finish up about 8 pm. That
              would be plenty of time to get back to Lancaster for a last night of
              socializing.

              Boom, all problems solved.

              Again, I'm more than happy to tweak the dinner schedule to avoid
              conflict to whatever extent is possible. The reason this year's dinner
              started so late was to avoid conflict with the last FSP speaker.

              Yes, Lloyd, I acknowledge that people will not come to northern NH to
              camp for a week for a three-hour dinner, but they will do it for a week
              of socializing, music, and beer with other libertarians. You're right,
              that's why the dinner must be held at the exact time that will optimize
              attendance. Restoring the dinner to it's originally planned Saturday
              time slot bumped attendance from 135 to 170. The dinner is simply one
              more option on the smorgasboard of options for Porc Fest attendees to
              choose from. They're free to attend the dinner, or to stay for the
              circle of liberty in Lancaster.

              I don't see anything wrong with giving people multiple options. It's
              the free market at work -- what are all the complaints about?

              Wait till you see who I'm trying to get for next year. They'll be
              scalping the tickets outside the front door. (wink)


              On Aug 10, 2005, at 4:19 PM, lloydbob1 wrote:

              > Its the circle of Liberty, Hardy. I understand what you are saying
              > about Sunday afternoon, but, if people are leaving as early as
              > Saturday to get home, than the're not going to the dinner anyway.
              > This first Saturday sounds good to me, but, the NHLA won't go along
              > with it because the Porkfest will not have attracted enough people by
              > the first Saturday to make the Dinner a success. That is the key to
              > this discussion. The Porkfest attracts people to attend the dinner,
              > not, the other way around. Either Thursday or Friday night would be a
              > good compromise. Saturday night is more important to the people who,
              > actually, attend Porkfest than the NHLA dinner.
            • Alan Robert Weiss
              ... If you don t want out-of-state members of the NHLA (who pay dues and who might be contributors of funds now, and labor/talent in the future), that s fine.
              Message 6 of 15 , Aug 11 3:39 AM
                Thomas Tuathal Simmons wrote:

                >At the risk of being shot, since I attended neither Porcfest nor the
                >dinner....
                >
                >Has anyone seriously considered *not* holding them even remotely close
                >together? Such as Porcfest in August and NHLA Dinner in Spring? (or around
                >the Primary :-) :-) :-) ???? )
                >
                >It would certainlky make it a little easier for folks to 'balance' their New
                >Hampshire interests rather than squeezing it into three days....
                >
                >Thom
                >
                >

                If you don't want out-of-state members of the NHLA (who pay dues and who
                might be contributors of funds now, and labor/talent in the future),
                that's fine.

                It cost me thousands and thousands of FRN's (dollars) for myself and my
                family to attend PorcFest this year. I daresay that making two trips to
                NH a year is an additional burden.

                At the risk of me being drawn and quartered, I did not attend the NHLA
                dinner this year (because the family declined Unanimous Consent and
                wanted to do other things), but because I was at PorcFest I re-joined
                and paid dues again. It was the availability of the dinner that I
                appreciated. I bought hats and other agit-prop tools.

                Look, it seems to me and others that the NHLA would be the "natural
                landing zone" for emigrating Porcupines as the in-gathering occurs, but
                if the NHLA wants to limit itself to existing NH residents, and not make
                accomidations with out of state members or supporters, it will never
                reach its potential. We will turn elsewhere. That is simply an
                observation. Your choice, folks.

                Having it associated with at least one other major event (PorcFest, or
                Freedom Summit) makes it much more likely to attend.

                Alan R. Weiss

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                6300 Bridgepoint Parkway
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              • Jean Alexander
                ... Is the bump not at all credited to the fact that the PF was simply bigger this year? How much do you think was related to the day of the dinner and how
                Message 7 of 15 , Aug 11 6:11 AM
                  On Aug 11, 2005, at 1:56 AM, Keith Murphy wrote:

                  > Restoring the dinner to it's originally planned Saturday
                  > time slot bumped attendance from 135 to 170.

                  Is the bump not at all credited to the fact that the PF was simply
                  bigger this year? How much do you think was related to the day of the
                  dinner and how much to a larger pool of potential attendees?

                  Jean
                • Brian Sullivan
                  Starting earlier sounds good. I ll make the trek, but please arrange for the college to leave the air conditioning on for the duration of the dinner - it was
                  Message 8 of 15 , Aug 11 7:10 AM
                    Starting earlier sounds good. I'll make the trek, but please arrange for
                    the college to leave the air conditioning on for the duration of the
                    dinner - it was very uncomfortable for many of us. And, there was no more
                    water for the last 60-90 minutes.

                    Brian Sullivan

                    From my perspective, it would be ideal for the Porc Fest organizers to
                    split their speaker schedule between Friday and Saturday, finishing up
                    at 3 pm Saturday afternoon. That would let me start the Liberty Dinner
                    earlier next year, say, at about 5 pm, and finish up about 8 pm. That
                    would be plenty of time to get back to Lancaster for a last night of
                    socializing.

                    Boom, all problems solved.

                    Again, I'm more than happy to tweak the dinner schedule to avoid
                    conflict to whatever extent is possible. The reason this year's dinner
                    started so late was to avoid conflict with the last FSP speaker.

                    Yes, Lloyd, I acknowledge that people will not come to northern NH to
                    camp for a week for a three-hour dinner, but they will do it for a week
                    of socializing, music, and beer with other libertarians. You're right,
                    that's why the dinner must be held at the exact time that will optimize
                    attendance. Restoring the dinner to it's originally planned Saturday
                    time slot bumped attendance from 135 to 170. The dinner is simply one
                    more option on the smorgasboard of options for Porc Fest attendees to
                    choose from. They're free to attend the dinner, or to stay for the
                    circle of liberty in Lancaster.

                    I don't see anything wrong with giving people multiple options. It's
                    the free market at work -- what are all the complaints about?

                    Wait till you see who I'm trying to get for next year. They'll be
                    scalping the tickets outside the front door. (wink)


                    On Aug 10, 2005, at 4:19 PM, lloydbob1 wrote:

                    > Its the circle of Liberty, Hardy. I understand what you are saying
                    > about Sunday afternoon, but, if people are leaving as early as
                    > Saturday to get home, than the're not going to the dinner anyway.
                    > This first Saturday sounds good to me, but, the NHLA won't go along
                    > with it because the Porkfest will not have attracted enough people by
                    > the first Saturday to make the Dinner a success. That is the key to
                    > this discussion. The Porkfest attracts people to attend the dinner,
                    > not, the other way around. Either Thursday or Friday night would be a
                    > good compromise. Saturday night is more important to the people who,
                    > actually, attend Porkfest than the NHLA dinner.






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                  • Joel
                    ... A 25% increase in attendence is impressive. But, like Jean, I don t think all of that was simply because of the day of the week. For example, isn t NHLA
                    Message 9 of 15 , Aug 12 12:28 PM
                      --- In freestateproject@yahoogroups.com, Jean Alexander
                      <jeanius2@m...> wrote:
                      > > On Aug 11, 2005, at 1:56 AM, Keith Murphy wrote:
                      > > > Restoring the dinner to it's originally planned Saturday
                      > > time slot bumped attendance from 135 to 170.
                      >
                      > Is the bump not at all credited to the fact that the PF was simply
                      > bigger this year? How much do you think was related to the day of
                      > the dinner and how much to a larger pool of potential attendees?

                      A 25% increase in attendence is impressive. But, like Jean, I don't
                      think all of that was simply because of the day of the week. For
                      example, isn't NHLA membership up over that 1 year's time? And there
                      were more awards given out this year as well. Those must have
                      contributed to the increase as well.

                      Joel
                    • Joel
                      ... From your perspective, that would be ideal. But what about the people who are not attending the dinner? The last Saturday has been the BUSIEST day of
                      Message 10 of 15 , Aug 12 12:38 PM
                        --- In freestateproject@yahoogroups.com, Keith Murphy
                        <keithrmurphy@c...> wrote:
                        > From my perspective, it would be ideal for the Porc Fest
                        > organizers to split their speaker schedule between Friday and
                        > Saturday, finishing up at 3 pm Saturday afternoon.... Boom, all
                        > problems solved.

                        From your perspective, that would be ideal. But what about the
                        people who are not attending the dinner? The last Saturday has been
                        the BUSIEST day of Porc Fest the last few years. This year, there
                        were a dozen in-state Porcs who drove up for that one day. By
                        cutting off all Porc Fest activities in the early afternoon, you may
                        discourage NH residents from attending even the Porc Fest, as well
                        as make other Porcs feel like they are left out of things if they
                        don't buy a ticket to the LD.

                        All this assumes that conditions in 2006 will be exactly the same as
                        in 2005. If they do in fact repeat, Amy and I will not leave the
                        busiest day of Porc Fest to drive to Plymouth for the Liberty
                        Dinner. Keith, you throw a hell of a dinner. But for us, the
                        inconvience will make the cost of a ticket too high.

                        Joel





                        >
                        > Again, I'm more than happy to tweak the dinner schedule to avoid
                        > conflict to whatever extent is possible. The reason this year's
                        dinner
                        > started so late was to avoid conflict with the last FSP speaker.
                        >
                        > Yes, Lloyd, I acknowledge that people will not come to northern NH
                        to
                        > camp for a week for a three-hour dinner, but they will do it for a
                        week
                        > of socializing, music, and beer with other libertarians. You're
                        right,
                        > that's why the dinner must be held at the exact time that will
                        optimize
                        > attendance. Restoring the dinner to it's originally planned
                        Saturday
                        > time slot bumped attendance from 135 to 170. The dinner is simply
                        one
                        > more option on the smorgasboard of options for Porc Fest attendees
                        to
                        > choose from. They're free to attend the dinner, or to stay for
                        the
                        > circle of liberty in Lancaster.
                        >
                        > I don't see anything wrong with giving people multiple options.
                        It's
                        > the free market at work -- what are all the complaints about?
                        >
                        > Wait till you see who I'm trying to get for next year. They'll be
                        > scalping the tickets outside the front door. (wink)
                        >
                        >
                        > On Aug 10, 2005, at 4:19 PM, lloydbob1 wrote:
                        >
                        > > Its the circle of Liberty, Hardy. I understand what you are
                        saying
                        > > about Sunday afternoon, but, if people are leaving as early as
                        > > Saturday to get home, than the're not going to the dinner anyway.
                        > > This first Saturday sounds good to me, but, the NHLA won't go
                        along
                        > > with it because the Porkfest will not have attracted enough
                        people by
                        > > the first Saturday to make the Dinner a success. That is the
                        key to
                        > > this discussion. The Porkfest attracts people to attend the
                        dinner,
                        > > not, the other way around. Either Thursday or Friday night would
                        be a
                        > > good compromise. Saturday night is more important to the people
                        who,
                        > > actually, attend Porkfest than the NHLA dinner.
                      • Keith Murphy
                        OK, let me say this one more time. I only care about one thing: making the attendance for the Liberty Dinner the highest it can possibly be. That s it. Nothing
                        Message 11 of 15 , Aug 12 8:24 PM
                          OK, let me say this one more time.

                          I only care about one thing: making the attendance for the Liberty
                          Dinner the highest it can possibly be.

                          That's it.

                          Nothing else.

                          I only care about Porc Fest scheduling, and the people who choose not
                          to attend the dinner (choice being the operative word) to the extent
                          that these factors interact with the dinner attendance. I don't really
                          care about the Porc Fest drive, location, schedule, speakers, or
                          anything else except for how they impact attendance. I realize I may
                          lose a few people next year who decide to stay in Lancaster, but I
                          could reasonably expect to lose 40-odd native NH residents if I
                          switched to Friday.

                          We can't have the dinner Friday night without severely impacting the
                          attendance from natives who are not staying up at Lancaster, and I
                          can't have it Sunday without severely impacting the attendance from
                          visiting FSP members. I have yet to hear a compelling argument for a
                          time slot other than Saturday evening -- at least one not based on the
                          personal interests of a few. I must overlook the interests of a few
                          and do what is best for the entire NHLA, and that means Saturday
                          evening.

                          Joel, I'm sorry that the drive to Lancaster is long, but I have no
                          control over the basic laws of geography and physics. If you choose
                          not to attend the dinner (there's that word again) due to timing or
                          distance concerns, then I respect your decision.

                          On Aug 12, 2005, at 3:38 PM, Joel wrote:

                          > --- In freestateproject@yahoogroups.com, Keith Murphy
                          > <keithrmurphy@c...> wrote:
                          >> From my perspective, it would be ideal for the Porc Fest
                          >> organizers to split their speaker schedule between Friday and
                          >> Saturday, finishing up at 3 pm Saturday afternoon.... Boom, all
                          >> problems solved.
                          >
                          > From your perspective, that would be ideal.

                          From the perspective of the NHLA's bank account and political power
                          base, as well.

                          > But what about the
                          > people who are not attending the dinner?

                          Why would I care about people that are not attending the dinner? I'm
                          not working for them.

                          > The last Saturday has been
                          > the BUSIEST day of Porc Fest the last few years.

                          Yes, and the Liberty Dinner is just one more thing on the smorgasboard
                          for them to consider. Come, or don't. It's up to each individual.
                          It's not as if the FSP has a copyright on Saturday night. Other
                          completely distinct organizations have an equal right to schedule
                          events for that evening, if it suits them. Look at it this way: next
                          year's Porc Fest organizers have a full year's notice that the Liberty
                          Dinner will be held on the second Saturday evening, likely between 5 pm
                          and 8 pm. Maybe the organizers will take that into consideration.
                          That's up to them.

                          Tell you what -- if 150 people email me that they will come to the
                          Liberty Dinner if it is held on Friday evening next year, AND I can get
                          two great speakers for a Friday evening (assuredly harder to book than
                          a Saturday) I'll make the switch. Happily.

                          > This year, there
                          > were a dozen in-state Porcs who drove up for that one day. By
                          > cutting off all Porc Fest activities in the early afternoon, you may
                          > discourage NH residents from attending even the Porc Fest, as well
                          > as make other Porcs feel like they are left out of things if they
                          > don't buy a ticket to the LD.

                          1. In my opinion, anyone who doesn't buy a ticket to the Liberty
                          Dinner IS indeed missing a good event for a great cause. Although, to
                          be fair, some have said that they didn't go to the dinner and don't
                          regret their decision. Which is entirely their choice, and one that I
                          respect.

                          2. Hope this doesn't sound harsh, but I don't care about the impact on
                          Porc Fest. I don't work for the FSP, I work for the NHLA. Usually
                          what's good for one is good for both, and that's just great. In this
                          instance that's not the case. I'm not going to do something wrong for
                          the NHLA, and I don't expect the Porc Fest organizers to do wrong by
                          the FSP.

                          >
                          > All this assumes that conditions in 2006 will be exactly the same as
                          > in 2005. If they do in fact repeat, Amy and I will not leave the
                          > busiest day of Porc Fest to drive to Plymouth for the Liberty
                          > Dinner. Keith, you throw a hell of a dinner. But for us, the
                          > inconvience will make the cost of a ticket too high.

                          Again, I will be thrilled to work with the 2006 Porc Fest Czar to
                          minimize or eliminate conflict with the scheduled slate of speakers.
                          However, if that once again proves impossible, and people are forced to
                          choose between the Liberty Dinner and socializing at Porc Fest...

                          Well, I don't begrudge anyone that decision, yourself included. Hope
                          you can make it next year.
                        • redbeardsm@aol.com
                          I got WAY behind on my emails, and am just now catching up from the summer. I saw the title of this message and my first thought was Porkfest? What does the
                          Message 12 of 15 , Aug 12 10:47 PM
                            I got WAY behind on my emails, and am just now catching up from the summer.

                            I saw the title of this message and my first thought was "Porkfest? What does
                            the "transportation" bill have to do with the FSP? Then I read the message
                            and found out that Por"C"fest was the topic.

                            Scott


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