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Re: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update

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  • Tim Condon
    Now, now, guys. Relax, Adam. Steve is trying to protect the Free State Project in sounding his concerns, just as you re trying to advance the movement with
    Message 1 of 20 , Apr 3, 2004
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      Now, now, guys. Relax, Adam. Steve is trying to protect the Free
      State Project in sounding his concerns, just as you're trying to advance
      the movement with your call to activism. No need to get acidic. ---Tim Condon


      At 06:16 PM 4/2/2004 +0000, you wrote:
      >Great Steve, stifle activism. Nice. How about someone setting up an FSP
      >activists list? FSP could list it on their site. Or does that not pass
      >muster, Steve?
      >
      >Adam G.
      >
      >-----Original Message-----
      >From: Steve [mailto:simplulo@...]
      >Sent: Friday, April 2, 2004 10:41 AM
      >To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
      >Subject: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update
      >
      >That this group has over 13K messages should be a clue as to its
      >origins. If you go back to the beginning, all will be clear: the
      >FSP was founded here, and the primary purpose of this forum remains
      >discussion of FSP business, though we do sometimes tend to go off on
      >tangents (I think a recent post of mine was moderated). It was a
      >very long time before we opened the web site, and even then, some
      >functions were never duplicated: if you click on the groupware links
      >at the left (files, photos, etc) you will see how we used to
      >collaborate, and still occasionally do. There is no other place
      >where any member can upload files for sharing with the others.
      >
      >The group moderators
      >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freestateproject/members?group=mod
      >are mostly from the leadership, including directors.
      >
      >Anyone who is still uncertain should read the statement on this
      >group's home page:
      >
      >"This group/list is moderated and is for discussion of FSP business
      >or FSP-specific issues or questions. This is the only official e-
      >mail discussion list run by the Free State Project; other email
      >lists are unofficial and run by FSP members or supporters. We also
      >have a new web community that we invite everyone to join to discuss
      >almost any topic under the sun on various boards:
      >http://forum.freestateproject.org ."
      >
      >This is indeed a private e-mail list--a private official FSP mailing
      >list--and a good deal more. Anything said or done here should
      >reflect and further the FSP's goals, and certainly not interfere
      >with them.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • Adam W. Gonnerman
      The only good alternative, then, is that I leave this list. Adam G. ... From: Alan R. Weiss [mailto:alan@ebenchmarks.com] Sent: Friday, April 2, 2004 11:21 PM
      Message 2 of 20 , Apr 3, 2004
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        The only good alternative, then, is that I leave this list.

        Adam G.

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Alan R. Weiss [mailto:alan@...]
        Sent: Friday, April 2, 2004 11:21 PM
        To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update


        My dear Adam,

        Do you *really* think, in your heart, that Steve wants to stifle
        activism?

        All he is saying is "not on THIS particular list", and "not in a
        place that can jeopardize the status of the FSP." We both know,
        indeed everyone knows, that you support the mission of the FSP (as
        does Steve). How can anyone who has read your words not know your
        commitment?

        Lets save our vitriol, bile, rejectionism, nastiness, and general
        mayhem for the REAL enemies of liberty and seek to remember who WE
        are. :-)

        WE are better than them. WE treat each other with respect and
        dignity. Most of all, WE don't eat our own over what in the long-
        term will not be a crisis-issue.

        OK, fellow Porcupines?

        With regards to both,

        Alan R. Weiss
        Austin
        Member, FSP



        --- In freestateproject@yahoogroups.com, "Adam W. Gonnerman"
        <freestatepatriot@b...> wrote:
        > Great Steve, stifle activism. Nice. How about someone setting up
        an FSP activists list? FSP could list it on their site. Or does
        that not pass muster, Steve?
        >
        > Adam G.
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: Steve [mailto:simplulo@y...]
        > Sent: Friday, April 2, 2004 10:41 AM
        > To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update
        >
        > That this group has over 13K messages should be a clue as to its
        > origins. If you go back to the beginning, all will be clear: the
        > FSP was founded here, and the primary purpose of this forum remains
        > discussion of FSP business, though we do sometimes tend to go off
        on
        > tangents (I think a recent post of mine was moderated). It was a
        > very long time before we opened the web site, and even then, some
        > functions were never duplicated: if you click on the groupware
        links
        > at the left (files, photos, etc) you will see how we used to
        > collaborate, and still occasionally do. There is no other place
        > where any member can upload files for sharing with the others.
        >
        > The group moderators
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freestateproject/members?group=mod
        > are mostly from the leadership, including directors.
        >
        > Anyone who is still uncertain should read the statement on this
        > group's home page:
        >
        > "This group/list is moderated and is for discussion of FSP business
        > or FSP-specific issues or questions. This is the only official e-
        > mail discussion list run by the Free State Project; other email
        > lists are unofficial and run by FSP members or supporters. We also
        > have a new web community that we invite everyone to join to discuss
        > almost any topic under the sun on various boards:
        > http://forum.freestateproject.org ."
        >
        > This is indeed a private e-mail list--a private official FSP
        mailing
        > list--and a good deal more. Anything said or done here should
        > reflect and further the FSP's goals, and certainly not interfere
        > with them.



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      • Oliver Dyer
        Hey folks, I monitor your chat as an interested man ready to go BUT you gotta get off this government priviledge deal. The 501 (c)3 status is for government
        Message 3 of 20 , Apr 3, 2004
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          Hey folks, I monitor your chat as an interested man ready to go BUT you gotta
          get off this government priviledge deal. The 501 (c)3 status is for government
          sanctioned organizations meaning they can regulate you. I don't think ANYONE in
          the FSP frame of mind wants that. As for the people who will not contribute if
          you're not going to be a dedutable expense; forget them and move on. The
          organization will suffer sabotoge at the hands of the contributors if you go the
          501c3 route. Just quit now before everyone gets their feelings hurt if you're
          not going to do it right. Oliver, in what I wish was a fsp state; Texas.

          Lady Liberty wrote:

          > on 4/2/04 2:16 PM, Adam W. Gonnerman at freestatepatriot@...
          > wrote:
          >
          > > Great Steve, stifle activism. Nice. How about someone setting up an FSP
          > > activists list? FSP could list it on their site. Or does that not pass
          > > muster, Steve?
          >
          > Steve isn't stifling activism. He's got some valid concerns re: the 501(c)3
          > status and whether or not a list labeled as "official business" for the FSP
          > might likely be subject to 501(c)3 requirements - and if a failure to adhere
          > to the requirements on such a list might jeopardize the 501(c)3 status once
          > it's obtained.
          >
          > Of course, I and the people like me who were against the 501(c)3 status in
          > the first place never even THOUGHT that something like this might come up...
          > <cough>
          >
          > Yours for freedom,
          > Lady Liberty
          >
          > "The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the
          > active, the brave." Patrick Henry
          > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
          > News, commentary, and a patriotic goodie shoppe.
          > Visit http://www.ladylibrty.com today!
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Rick LaPoint
          Why in the hell are we having this discussion? On this list? Have we not learned to ignore convention yet? Anarchists, denite! rick ... From: Adam W. Gonnerman
          Message 4 of 20 , Apr 4, 2004
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            Why in the hell are we having this discussion?

            On this list?

            Have we not learned to ignore convention yet?

            Anarchists, denite!

            rick

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Adam W. Gonnerman [mailto:freestatepatriot@...]
            Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 9:36 AM
            To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update

            The only good alternative, then, is that I leave this list.

            Adam G.

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Alan R. Weiss [mailto:alan@...]
            Sent: Friday, April 2, 2004 11:21 PM
            To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update


            My dear Adam,

            Do you *really* think, in your heart, that Steve wants to stifle
            activism?

            All he is saying is "not on THIS particular list", and "not in a
            place that can jeopardize the status of the FSP." We both know,
            indeed everyone knows, that you support the mission of the FSP (as
            does Steve). How can anyone who has read your words not know your
            commitment?

            Lets save our vitriol, bile, rejectionism, nastiness, and general
            mayhem for the REAL enemies of liberty and seek to remember who WE
            are. :-)

            WE are better than them. WE treat each other with respect and
            dignity. Most of all, WE don't eat our own over what in the long-
            term will not be a crisis-issue.

            OK, fellow Porcupines?

            With regards to both,

            Alan R. Weiss
            Austin
            Member, FSP



            --- In freestateproject@yahoogroups.com, "Adam W. Gonnerman"
            <freestatepatriot@b...> wrote:
            > Great Steve, stifle activism. Nice. How about someone setting up
            an FSP activists list? FSP could list it on their site. Or does
            that not pass muster, Steve?
            >
            > Adam G.
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Steve [mailto:simplulo@y...]
            > Sent: Friday, April 2, 2004 10:41 AM
            > To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update
            >
            > That this group has over 13K messages should be a clue as to its
            > origins. If you go back to the beginning, all will be clear: the
            > FSP was founded here, and the primary purpose of this forum remains
            > discussion of FSP business, though we do sometimes tend to go off
            on
            > tangents (I think a recent post of mine was moderated). It was a
            > very long time before we opened the web site, and even then, some
            > functions were never duplicated: if you click on the groupware
            links
            > at the left (files, photos, etc) you will see how we used to
            > collaborate, and still occasionally do. There is no other place
            > where any member can upload files for sharing with the others.
            >
            > The group moderators
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freestateproject/members?group=mod
            > are mostly from the leadership, including directors.
            >
            > Anyone who is still uncertain should read the statement on this
            > group's home page:
            >
            > "This group/list is moderated and is for discussion of FSP business
            > or FSP-specific issues or questions. This is the only official e-
            > mail discussion list run by the Free State Project; other email
            > lists are unofficial and run by FSP members or supporters. We also
            > have a new web community that we invite everyone to join to discuss
            > almost any topic under the sun on various boards:
            > http://forum.freestateproject.org ."
            >
            > This is indeed a private e-mail list--a private official FSP
            mailing
            > list--and a good deal more. Anything said or done here should
            > reflect and further the FSP's goals, and certainly not interfere
            > with them.



            Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT


            ------------------------------------------------------------
            Yahoo! Groups Links
            To visit your group on the web, go to:
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freestateproject/
            To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            freestateproject-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.






            Yahoo! Groups Links
          • Mary Lou Seymour
            Since the IRS wanted transcripts of radio interviews when the FSP applied for c3 status last time, it s certainly possible they d want email postings. (and
            Message 5 of 20 , Apr 4, 2004
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              Since the IRS wanted transcripts of radio interviews when the FSP
              applied for c3 status last time, it's certainly possible they'd want
              email postings. (and have the RIGHT to them, BTW). Posts labeled "SB
              454 update" on the official email list would obviously be a red flag.
              (The invasion of privacy aspect is only one of the many reasons i've
              always opposed c3, of course.)
              (And no, I don't read this list much anymore, just when people ask me
              to "look at what's going on now".)

              On 2 Apr 2004 at 17:47, Lady Liberty wrote:

              > on 4/2/04 2:16 PM, Adam W. Gonnerman at freestatepatriot@...
              > wrote:
              >
              > > Great Steve, stifle activism. Nice. How about someone setting
              up
              > > an FSP activists list? FSP could list it on their site. Or does
              > > that not pass muster, Steve?
              >
              > Steve isn't stifling activism. He's got some valid concerns re: the
              > 501(c)3 status and whether or not a list labeled as "official
              > business" for the FSP might likely be subject to 501(c)3
              requirements
              > - and if a failure to adhere to the requirements on such a list
              might
              > jeopardize the 501(c)3 status once it's obtained.
              >
              > Of course, I and the people like me who were against the 501(c)3
              > status in the first place never even THOUGHT that something like
              this
              > might come up... <cough>
              >
              > Yours for freedom,
              > Lady Liberty
              >
              > "The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the
              vigilant,
              > the active, the brave." Patrick Henry
              > --------------------------------------------------------------------
              --
              > ------ News, commentary, and a patriotic goodie shoppe. Visit
              > http://www.ladylibrty.com today!
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >


              ====================

              My alternate email address is
              libertymls@...

              If you email me and I don't respond within 12 hours,
              please resend to the alternate address.
            • Tim Condon
              Oliver, it s not possible for the FSP to suffer sabotage at the hands of contributors when we have our 501(c)(3) status. Why? Because we re not a political
              Message 6 of 20 , Apr 5, 2004
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                Oliver, it's not possible for the FSP to suffer sabotage at the
                hands of contributors when we have our 501(c)(3) status. Why? Because we're
                not a political organization; we're a recruiting and migration-sparking
                organization. Once in the Free State, it will be up to everyone how to
                engage in activism to get to a drastically reduced state government. In the
                meantime, however, the only job of the Free State Project is to gather
                together 20,000 people who promise to move to the Free State, and then pull
                the trigger (so to speak) on the migration. That's all. ---Tim Condon,
                FSP member services


                At 02:08 PM 4/3/2004 -0600, you wrote:
                >Hey folks, I monitor your chat as an interested man ready to go BUT you gotta
                >get off this government priviledge deal. The 501 (c)3 status is for government
                >sanctioned organizations meaning they can regulate you. I don't think
                >ANYONE in
                >the FSP frame of mind wants that. As for the people who will not contribute if
                >you're not going to be a dedutable expense; forget them and move on. The
                >organization will suffer sabotoge at the hands of the contributors if you
                >go the
                >501c3 route. Just quit now before everyone gets their feelings hurt if you're
                >not going to do it right. Oliver, in what I wish was a fsp state; Texas.
              • Mike Denny
                Exactly Tim....politics will come later. Greetings from San Francisco....looking forward to being with you all in the Free State. Mike Denny
                Message 7 of 20 , Apr 5, 2004
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                  Exactly Tim....politics will come later.



                  Greetings from San Francisco....looking forward to being with you all in
                  the Free State.



                  Mike Denny





                  ________________________________

                  From: Tim Condon [mailto:tim@...]
                  Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 11:17 AM
                  To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update



                  Oliver, it's not possible for the FSP to suffer sabotage at the

                  hands of contributors when we have our 501(c)(3) status. Why? Because
                  we're
                  not a political organization; we're a recruiting and migration-sparking
                  organization. Once in the Free State, it will be up to everyone how to
                  engage in activism to get to a drastically reduced state government. In
                  the
                  meantime, however, the only job of the Free State Project is to gather
                  together 20,000 people who promise to move to the Free State, and then
                  pull
                  the trigger (so to speak) on the migration. That's all. ---Tim Condon,

                  FSP member services
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