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Re: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update

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  • Lady Liberty
    on 4/2/04 2:16 PM, Adam W. Gonnerman at freestatepatriot@burntmail.com ... Steve isn t stifling activism. He s got some valid concerns re: the 501(c)3 status
    Message 1 of 20 , Apr 2, 2004
    • 0 Attachment
      on 4/2/04 2:16 PM, Adam W. Gonnerman at freestatepatriot@...
      wrote:

      > Great Steve, stifle activism. Nice. How about someone setting up an FSP
      > activists list? FSP could list it on their site. Or does that not pass
      > muster, Steve?

      Steve isn't stifling activism. He's got some valid concerns re: the 501(c)3
      status and whether or not a list labeled as "official business" for the FSP
      might likely be subject to 501(c)3 requirements - and if a failure to adhere
      to the requirements on such a list might jeopardize the 501(c)3 status once
      it's obtained.

      Of course, I and the people like me who were against the 501(c)3 status in
      the first place never even THOUGHT that something like this might come up...
      <cough>

      Yours for freedom,
      Lady Liberty

      "The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the
      active, the brave." Patrick Henry
      ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
      News, commentary, and a patriotic goodie shoppe.
      Visit http://www.ladylibrty.com today!
    • Tim Condon
      Now, now, guys. Relax, Adam. Steve is trying to protect the Free State Project in sounding his concerns, just as you re trying to advance the movement with
      Message 2 of 20 , Apr 3, 2004
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        Now, now, guys. Relax, Adam. Steve is trying to protect the Free
        State Project in sounding his concerns, just as you're trying to advance
        the movement with your call to activism. No need to get acidic. ---Tim Condon


        At 06:16 PM 4/2/2004 +0000, you wrote:
        >Great Steve, stifle activism. Nice. How about someone setting up an FSP
        >activists list? FSP could list it on their site. Or does that not pass
        >muster, Steve?
        >
        >Adam G.
        >
        >-----Original Message-----
        >From: Steve [mailto:simplulo@...]
        >Sent: Friday, April 2, 2004 10:41 AM
        >To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
        >Subject: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update
        >
        >That this group has over 13K messages should be a clue as to its
        >origins. If you go back to the beginning, all will be clear: the
        >FSP was founded here, and the primary purpose of this forum remains
        >discussion of FSP business, though we do sometimes tend to go off on
        >tangents (I think a recent post of mine was moderated). It was a
        >very long time before we opened the web site, and even then, some
        >functions were never duplicated: if you click on the groupware links
        >at the left (files, photos, etc) you will see how we used to
        >collaborate, and still occasionally do. There is no other place
        >where any member can upload files for sharing with the others.
        >
        >The group moderators
        >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freestateproject/members?group=mod
        >are mostly from the leadership, including directors.
        >
        >Anyone who is still uncertain should read the statement on this
        >group's home page:
        >
        >"This group/list is moderated and is for discussion of FSP business
        >or FSP-specific issues or questions. This is the only official e-
        >mail discussion list run by the Free State Project; other email
        >lists are unofficial and run by FSP members or supporters. We also
        >have a new web community that we invite everyone to join to discuss
        >almost any topic under the sun on various boards:
        >http://forum.freestateproject.org ."
        >
        >This is indeed a private e-mail list--a private official FSP mailing
        >list--and a good deal more. Anything said or done here should
        >reflect and further the FSP's goals, and certainly not interfere
        >with them.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Adam W. Gonnerman
        The only good alternative, then, is that I leave this list. Adam G. ... From: Alan R. Weiss [mailto:alan@ebenchmarks.com] Sent: Friday, April 2, 2004 11:21 PM
        Message 3 of 20 , Apr 3, 2004
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          The only good alternative, then, is that I leave this list.

          Adam G.

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Alan R. Weiss [mailto:alan@...]
          Sent: Friday, April 2, 2004 11:21 PM
          To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update


          My dear Adam,

          Do you *really* think, in your heart, that Steve wants to stifle
          activism?

          All he is saying is "not on THIS particular list", and "not in a
          place that can jeopardize the status of the FSP." We both know,
          indeed everyone knows, that you support the mission of the FSP (as
          does Steve). How can anyone who has read your words not know your
          commitment?

          Lets save our vitriol, bile, rejectionism, nastiness, and general
          mayhem for the REAL enemies of liberty and seek to remember who WE
          are. :-)

          WE are better than them. WE treat each other with respect and
          dignity. Most of all, WE don't eat our own over what in the long-
          term will not be a crisis-issue.

          OK, fellow Porcupines?

          With regards to both,

          Alan R. Weiss
          Austin
          Member, FSP



          --- In freestateproject@yahoogroups.com, "Adam W. Gonnerman"
          <freestatepatriot@b...> wrote:
          > Great Steve, stifle activism. Nice. How about someone setting up
          an FSP activists list? FSP could list it on their site. Or does
          that not pass muster, Steve?
          >
          > Adam G.
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: Steve [mailto:simplulo@y...]
          > Sent: Friday, April 2, 2004 10:41 AM
          > To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update
          >
          > That this group has over 13K messages should be a clue as to its
          > origins. If you go back to the beginning, all will be clear: the
          > FSP was founded here, and the primary purpose of this forum remains
          > discussion of FSP business, though we do sometimes tend to go off
          on
          > tangents (I think a recent post of mine was moderated). It was a
          > very long time before we opened the web site, and even then, some
          > functions were never duplicated: if you click on the groupware
          links
          > at the left (files, photos, etc) you will see how we used to
          > collaborate, and still occasionally do. There is no other place
          > where any member can upload files for sharing with the others.
          >
          > The group moderators
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freestateproject/members?group=mod
          > are mostly from the leadership, including directors.
          >
          > Anyone who is still uncertain should read the statement on this
          > group's home page:
          >
          > "This group/list is moderated and is for discussion of FSP business
          > or FSP-specific issues or questions. This is the only official e-
          > mail discussion list run by the Free State Project; other email
          > lists are unofficial and run by FSP members or supporters. We also
          > have a new web community that we invite everyone to join to discuss
          > almost any topic under the sun on various boards:
          > http://forum.freestateproject.org ."
          >
          > This is indeed a private e-mail list--a private official FSP
          mailing
          > list--and a good deal more. Anything said or done here should
          > reflect and further the FSP's goals, and certainly not interfere
          > with them.



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          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freestateproject/
          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
        • Oliver Dyer
          Hey folks, I monitor your chat as an interested man ready to go BUT you gotta get off this government priviledge deal. The 501 (c)3 status is for government
          Message 4 of 20 , Apr 3, 2004
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            Hey folks, I monitor your chat as an interested man ready to go BUT you gotta
            get off this government priviledge deal. The 501 (c)3 status is for government
            sanctioned organizations meaning they can regulate you. I don't think ANYONE in
            the FSP frame of mind wants that. As for the people who will not contribute if
            you're not going to be a dedutable expense; forget them and move on. The
            organization will suffer sabotoge at the hands of the contributors if you go the
            501c3 route. Just quit now before everyone gets their feelings hurt if you're
            not going to do it right. Oliver, in what I wish was a fsp state; Texas.

            Lady Liberty wrote:

            > on 4/2/04 2:16 PM, Adam W. Gonnerman at freestatepatriot@...
            > wrote:
            >
            > > Great Steve, stifle activism. Nice. How about someone setting up an FSP
            > > activists list? FSP could list it on their site. Or does that not pass
            > > muster, Steve?
            >
            > Steve isn't stifling activism. He's got some valid concerns re: the 501(c)3
            > status and whether or not a list labeled as "official business" for the FSP
            > might likely be subject to 501(c)3 requirements - and if a failure to adhere
            > to the requirements on such a list might jeopardize the 501(c)3 status once
            > it's obtained.
            >
            > Of course, I and the people like me who were against the 501(c)3 status in
            > the first place never even THOUGHT that something like this might come up...
            > <cough>
            >
            > Yours for freedom,
            > Lady Liberty
            >
            > "The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the
            > active, the brave." Patrick Henry
            > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
            > News, commentary, and a patriotic goodie shoppe.
            > Visit http://www.ladylibrty.com today!
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Rick LaPoint
            Why in the hell are we having this discussion? On this list? Have we not learned to ignore convention yet? Anarchists, denite! rick ... From: Adam W. Gonnerman
            Message 5 of 20 , Apr 4, 2004
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              Why in the hell are we having this discussion?

              On this list?

              Have we not learned to ignore convention yet?

              Anarchists, denite!

              rick

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Adam W. Gonnerman [mailto:freestatepatriot@...]
              Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 9:36 AM
              To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update

              The only good alternative, then, is that I leave this list.

              Adam G.

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Alan R. Weiss [mailto:alan@...]
              Sent: Friday, April 2, 2004 11:21 PM
              To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update


              My dear Adam,

              Do you *really* think, in your heart, that Steve wants to stifle
              activism?

              All he is saying is "not on THIS particular list", and "not in a
              place that can jeopardize the status of the FSP." We both know,
              indeed everyone knows, that you support the mission of the FSP (as
              does Steve). How can anyone who has read your words not know your
              commitment?

              Lets save our vitriol, bile, rejectionism, nastiness, and general
              mayhem for the REAL enemies of liberty and seek to remember who WE
              are. :-)

              WE are better than them. WE treat each other with respect and
              dignity. Most of all, WE don't eat our own over what in the long-
              term will not be a crisis-issue.

              OK, fellow Porcupines?

              With regards to both,

              Alan R. Weiss
              Austin
              Member, FSP



              --- In freestateproject@yahoogroups.com, "Adam W. Gonnerman"
              <freestatepatriot@b...> wrote:
              > Great Steve, stifle activism. Nice. How about someone setting up
              an FSP activists list? FSP could list it on their site. Or does
              that not pass muster, Steve?
              >
              > Adam G.
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: Steve [mailto:simplulo@y...]
              > Sent: Friday, April 2, 2004 10:41 AM
              > To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update
              >
              > That this group has over 13K messages should be a clue as to its
              > origins. If you go back to the beginning, all will be clear: the
              > FSP was founded here, and the primary purpose of this forum remains
              > discussion of FSP business, though we do sometimes tend to go off
              on
              > tangents (I think a recent post of mine was moderated). It was a
              > very long time before we opened the web site, and even then, some
              > functions were never duplicated: if you click on the groupware
              links
              > at the left (files, photos, etc) you will see how we used to
              > collaborate, and still occasionally do. There is no other place
              > where any member can upload files for sharing with the others.
              >
              > The group moderators
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freestateproject/members?group=mod
              > are mostly from the leadership, including directors.
              >
              > Anyone who is still uncertain should read the statement on this
              > group's home page:
              >
              > "This group/list is moderated and is for discussion of FSP business
              > or FSP-specific issues or questions. This is the only official e-
              > mail discussion list run by the Free State Project; other email
              > lists are unofficial and run by FSP members or supporters. We also
              > have a new web community that we invite everyone to join to discuss
              > almost any topic under the sun on various boards:
              > http://forum.freestateproject.org ."
              >
              > This is indeed a private e-mail list--a private official FSP
              mailing
              > list--and a good deal more. Anything said or done here should
              > reflect and further the FSP's goals, and certainly not interfere
              > with them.



              Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT


              ------------------------------------------------------------
              Yahoo! Groups Links
              To visit your group on the web, go to:
              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freestateproject/
              To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              freestateproject-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.






              Yahoo! Groups Links
            • Mary Lou Seymour
              Since the IRS wanted transcripts of radio interviews when the FSP applied for c3 status last time, it s certainly possible they d want email postings. (and
              Message 6 of 20 , Apr 4, 2004
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                Since the IRS wanted transcripts of radio interviews when the FSP
                applied for c3 status last time, it's certainly possible they'd want
                email postings. (and have the RIGHT to them, BTW). Posts labeled "SB
                454 update" on the official email list would obviously be a red flag.
                (The invasion of privacy aspect is only one of the many reasons i've
                always opposed c3, of course.)
                (And no, I don't read this list much anymore, just when people ask me
                to "look at what's going on now".)

                On 2 Apr 2004 at 17:47, Lady Liberty wrote:

                > on 4/2/04 2:16 PM, Adam W. Gonnerman at freestatepatriot@...
                > wrote:
                >
                > > Great Steve, stifle activism. Nice. How about someone setting
                up
                > > an FSP activists list? FSP could list it on their site. Or does
                > > that not pass muster, Steve?
                >
                > Steve isn't stifling activism. He's got some valid concerns re: the
                > 501(c)3 status and whether or not a list labeled as "official
                > business" for the FSP might likely be subject to 501(c)3
                requirements
                > - and if a failure to adhere to the requirements on such a list
                might
                > jeopardize the 501(c)3 status once it's obtained.
                >
                > Of course, I and the people like me who were against the 501(c)3
                > status in the first place never even THOUGHT that something like
                this
                > might come up... <cough>
                >
                > Yours for freedom,
                > Lady Liberty
                >
                > "The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the
                vigilant,
                > the active, the brave." Patrick Henry
                > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                --
                > ------ News, commentary, and a patriotic goodie shoppe. Visit
                > http://www.ladylibrty.com today!
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >


                ====================

                My alternate email address is
                libertymls@...

                If you email me and I don't respond within 12 hours,
                please resend to the alternate address.
              • Tim Condon
                Oliver, it s not possible for the FSP to suffer sabotage at the hands of contributors when we have our 501(c)(3) status. Why? Because we re not a political
                Message 7 of 20 , Apr 5, 2004
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                  Oliver, it's not possible for the FSP to suffer sabotage at the
                  hands of contributors when we have our 501(c)(3) status. Why? Because we're
                  not a political organization; we're a recruiting and migration-sparking
                  organization. Once in the Free State, it will be up to everyone how to
                  engage in activism to get to a drastically reduced state government. In the
                  meantime, however, the only job of the Free State Project is to gather
                  together 20,000 people who promise to move to the Free State, and then pull
                  the trigger (so to speak) on the migration. That's all. ---Tim Condon,
                  FSP member services


                  At 02:08 PM 4/3/2004 -0600, you wrote:
                  >Hey folks, I monitor your chat as an interested man ready to go BUT you gotta
                  >get off this government priviledge deal. The 501 (c)3 status is for government
                  >sanctioned organizations meaning they can regulate you. I don't think
                  >ANYONE in
                  >the FSP frame of mind wants that. As for the people who will not contribute if
                  >you're not going to be a dedutable expense; forget them and move on. The
                  >organization will suffer sabotoge at the hands of the contributors if you
                  >go the
                  >501c3 route. Just quit now before everyone gets their feelings hurt if you're
                  >not going to do it right. Oliver, in what I wish was a fsp state; Texas.
                • Mike Denny
                  Exactly Tim....politics will come later. Greetings from San Francisco....looking forward to being with you all in the Free State. Mike Denny
                  Message 8 of 20 , Apr 5, 2004
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                    Exactly Tim....politics will come later.



                    Greetings from San Francisco....looking forward to being with you all in
                    the Free State.



                    Mike Denny





                    ________________________________

                    From: Tim Condon [mailto:tim@...]
                    Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 11:17 AM
                    To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update



                    Oliver, it's not possible for the FSP to suffer sabotage at the

                    hands of contributors when we have our 501(c)(3) status. Why? Because
                    we're
                    not a political organization; we're a recruiting and migration-sparking
                    organization. Once in the Free State, it will be up to everyone how to
                    engage in activism to get to a drastically reduced state government. In
                    the
                    meantime, however, the only job of the Free State Project is to gather
                    together 20,000 people who promise to move to the Free State, and then
                    pull
                    the trigger (so to speak) on the migration. That's all. ---Tim Condon,

                    FSP member services
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