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Re: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update

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  • Lady Liberty
    on 4/2/04 2:16 PM, Adam W. Gonnerman at freestatepatriot@burntmail.com ... Steve isn t stifling activism. He s got some valid concerns re: the 501(c)3 status
    Message 1 of 20 , Apr 2, 2004
      on 4/2/04 2:16 PM, Adam W. Gonnerman at freestatepatriot@...
      wrote:

      > Great Steve, stifle activism. Nice. How about someone setting up an FSP
      > activists list? FSP could list it on their site. Or does that not pass
      > muster, Steve?

      Steve isn't stifling activism. He's got some valid concerns re: the 501(c)3
      status and whether or not a list labeled as "official business" for the FSP
      might likely be subject to 501(c)3 requirements - and if a failure to adhere
      to the requirements on such a list might jeopardize the 501(c)3 status once
      it's obtained.

      Of course, I and the people like me who were against the 501(c)3 status in
      the first place never even THOUGHT that something like this might come up...
      <cough>

      Yours for freedom,
      Lady Liberty

      "The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the
      active, the brave." Patrick Henry
      ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
      News, commentary, and a patriotic goodie shoppe.
      Visit http://www.ladylibrty.com today!
    • Alan R. Weiss
      My dear Adam, Do you *really* think, in your heart, that Steve wants to stifle activism? All he is saying is not on THIS particular list , and not in a place
      Message 2 of 20 , Apr 2, 2004
        My dear Adam,

        Do you *really* think, in your heart, that Steve wants to stifle
        activism?

        All he is saying is "not on THIS particular list", and "not in a
        place that can jeopardize the status of the FSP." We both know,
        indeed everyone knows, that you support the mission of the FSP (as
        does Steve). How can anyone who has read your words not know your
        commitment?

        Lets save our vitriol, bile, rejectionism, nastiness, and general
        mayhem for the REAL enemies of liberty and seek to remember who WE
        are. :-)

        WE are better than them. WE treat each other with respect and
        dignity. Most of all, WE don't eat our own over what in the long-
        term will not be a crisis-issue.

        OK, fellow Porcupines?

        With regards to both,

        Alan R. Weiss
        Austin
        Member, FSP



        --- In freestateproject@yahoogroups.com, "Adam W. Gonnerman"
        <freestatepatriot@b...> wrote:
        > Great Steve, stifle activism. Nice. How about someone setting up
        an FSP activists list? FSP could list it on their site. Or does
        that not pass muster, Steve?
        >
        > Adam G.
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: Steve [mailto:simplulo@y...]
        > Sent: Friday, April 2, 2004 10:41 AM
        > To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update
        >
        > That this group has over 13K messages should be a clue as to its
        > origins. If you go back to the beginning, all will be clear: the
        > FSP was founded here, and the primary purpose of this forum remains
        > discussion of FSP business, though we do sometimes tend to go off
        on
        > tangents (I think a recent post of mine was moderated). It was a
        > very long time before we opened the web site, and even then, some
        > functions were never duplicated: if you click on the groupware
        links
        > at the left (files, photos, etc) you will see how we used to
        > collaborate, and still occasionally do. There is no other place
        > where any member can upload files for sharing with the others.
        >
        > The group moderators
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freestateproject/members?group=mod
        > are mostly from the leadership, including directors.
        >
        > Anyone who is still uncertain should read the statement on this
        > group's home page:
        >
        > "This group/list is moderated and is for discussion of FSP business
        > or FSP-specific issues or questions. This is the only official e-
        > mail discussion list run by the Free State Project; other email
        > lists are unofficial and run by FSP members or supporters. We also
        > have a new web community that we invite everyone to join to discuss
        > almost any topic under the sun on various boards:
        > http://forum.freestateproject.org ."
        >
        > This is indeed a private e-mail list--a private official FSP
        mailing
        > list--and a good deal more. Anything said or done here should
        > reflect and further the FSP's goals, and certainly not interfere
        > with them.
      • Tim Condon
        Now, now, guys. Relax, Adam. Steve is trying to protect the Free State Project in sounding his concerns, just as you re trying to advance the movement with
        Message 3 of 20 , Apr 3, 2004
          Now, now, guys. Relax, Adam. Steve is trying to protect the Free
          State Project in sounding his concerns, just as you're trying to advance
          the movement with your call to activism. No need to get acidic. ---Tim Condon


          At 06:16 PM 4/2/2004 +0000, you wrote:
          >Great Steve, stifle activism. Nice. How about someone setting up an FSP
          >activists list? FSP could list it on their site. Or does that not pass
          >muster, Steve?
          >
          >Adam G.
          >
          >-----Original Message-----
          >From: Steve [mailto:simplulo@...]
          >Sent: Friday, April 2, 2004 10:41 AM
          >To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
          >Subject: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update
          >
          >That this group has over 13K messages should be a clue as to its
          >origins. If you go back to the beginning, all will be clear: the
          >FSP was founded here, and the primary purpose of this forum remains
          >discussion of FSP business, though we do sometimes tend to go off on
          >tangents (I think a recent post of mine was moderated). It was a
          >very long time before we opened the web site, and even then, some
          >functions were never duplicated: if you click on the groupware links
          >at the left (files, photos, etc) you will see how we used to
          >collaborate, and still occasionally do. There is no other place
          >where any member can upload files for sharing with the others.
          >
          >The group moderators
          >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freestateproject/members?group=mod
          >are mostly from the leadership, including directors.
          >
          >Anyone who is still uncertain should read the statement on this
          >group's home page:
          >
          >"This group/list is moderated and is for discussion of FSP business
          >or FSP-specific issues or questions. This is the only official e-
          >mail discussion list run by the Free State Project; other email
          >lists are unofficial and run by FSP members or supporters. We also
          >have a new web community that we invite everyone to join to discuss
          >almost any topic under the sun on various boards:
          >http://forum.freestateproject.org ."
          >
          >This is indeed a private e-mail list--a private official FSP mailing
          >list--and a good deal more. Anything said or done here should
          >reflect and further the FSP's goals, and certainly not interfere
          >with them.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Adam W. Gonnerman
          The only good alternative, then, is that I leave this list. Adam G. ... From: Alan R. Weiss [mailto:alan@ebenchmarks.com] Sent: Friday, April 2, 2004 11:21 PM
          Message 4 of 20 , Apr 3, 2004
            The only good alternative, then, is that I leave this list.

            Adam G.

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Alan R. Weiss [mailto:alan@...]
            Sent: Friday, April 2, 2004 11:21 PM
            To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update


            My dear Adam,

            Do you *really* think, in your heart, that Steve wants to stifle
            activism?

            All he is saying is "not on THIS particular list", and "not in a
            place that can jeopardize the status of the FSP." We both know,
            indeed everyone knows, that you support the mission of the FSP (as
            does Steve). How can anyone who has read your words not know your
            commitment?

            Lets save our vitriol, bile, rejectionism, nastiness, and general
            mayhem for the REAL enemies of liberty and seek to remember who WE
            are. :-)

            WE are better than them. WE treat each other with respect and
            dignity. Most of all, WE don't eat our own over what in the long-
            term will not be a crisis-issue.

            OK, fellow Porcupines?

            With regards to both,

            Alan R. Weiss
            Austin
            Member, FSP



            --- In freestateproject@yahoogroups.com, "Adam W. Gonnerman"
            <freestatepatriot@b...> wrote:
            > Great Steve, stifle activism. Nice. How about someone setting up
            an FSP activists list? FSP could list it on their site. Or does
            that not pass muster, Steve?
            >
            > Adam G.
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Steve [mailto:simplulo@y...]
            > Sent: Friday, April 2, 2004 10:41 AM
            > To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update
            >
            > That this group has over 13K messages should be a clue as to its
            > origins. If you go back to the beginning, all will be clear: the
            > FSP was founded here, and the primary purpose of this forum remains
            > discussion of FSP business, though we do sometimes tend to go off
            on
            > tangents (I think a recent post of mine was moderated). It was a
            > very long time before we opened the web site, and even then, some
            > functions were never duplicated: if you click on the groupware
            links
            > at the left (files, photos, etc) you will see how we used to
            > collaborate, and still occasionally do. There is no other place
            > where any member can upload files for sharing with the others.
            >
            > The group moderators
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freestateproject/members?group=mod
            > are mostly from the leadership, including directors.
            >
            > Anyone who is still uncertain should read the statement on this
            > group's home page:
            >
            > "This group/list is moderated and is for discussion of FSP business
            > or FSP-specific issues or questions. This is the only official e-
            > mail discussion list run by the Free State Project; other email
            > lists are unofficial and run by FSP members or supporters. We also
            > have a new web community that we invite everyone to join to discuss
            > almost any topic under the sun on various boards:
            > http://forum.freestateproject.org ."
            >
            > This is indeed a private e-mail list--a private official FSP
            mailing
            > list--and a good deal more. Anything said or done here should
            > reflect and further the FSP's goals, and certainly not interfere
            > with them.



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            ------------------------------------------------------------
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            To visit your group on the web, go to:
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freestateproject/
            To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
          • Oliver Dyer
            Hey folks, I monitor your chat as an interested man ready to go BUT you gotta get off this government priviledge deal. The 501 (c)3 status is for government
            Message 5 of 20 , Apr 3, 2004
              Hey folks, I monitor your chat as an interested man ready to go BUT you gotta
              get off this government priviledge deal. The 501 (c)3 status is for government
              sanctioned organizations meaning they can regulate you. I don't think ANYONE in
              the FSP frame of mind wants that. As for the people who will not contribute if
              you're not going to be a dedutable expense; forget them and move on. The
              organization will suffer sabotoge at the hands of the contributors if you go the
              501c3 route. Just quit now before everyone gets their feelings hurt if you're
              not going to do it right. Oliver, in what I wish was a fsp state; Texas.

              Lady Liberty wrote:

              > on 4/2/04 2:16 PM, Adam W. Gonnerman at freestatepatriot@...
              > wrote:
              >
              > > Great Steve, stifle activism. Nice. How about someone setting up an FSP
              > > activists list? FSP could list it on their site. Or does that not pass
              > > muster, Steve?
              >
              > Steve isn't stifling activism. He's got some valid concerns re: the 501(c)3
              > status and whether or not a list labeled as "official business" for the FSP
              > might likely be subject to 501(c)3 requirements - and if a failure to adhere
              > to the requirements on such a list might jeopardize the 501(c)3 status once
              > it's obtained.
              >
              > Of course, I and the people like me who were against the 501(c)3 status in
              > the first place never even THOUGHT that something like this might come up...
              > <cough>
              >
              > Yours for freedom,
              > Lady Liberty
              >
              > "The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the
              > active, the brave." Patrick Henry
              > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
              > News, commentary, and a patriotic goodie shoppe.
              > Visit http://www.ladylibrty.com today!
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • Rick LaPoint
              Why in the hell are we having this discussion? On this list? Have we not learned to ignore convention yet? Anarchists, denite! rick ... From: Adam W. Gonnerman
              Message 6 of 20 , Apr 4, 2004
                Why in the hell are we having this discussion?

                On this list?

                Have we not learned to ignore convention yet?

                Anarchists, denite!

                rick

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Adam W. Gonnerman [mailto:freestatepatriot@...]
                Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 9:36 AM
                To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update

                The only good alternative, then, is that I leave this list.

                Adam G.

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Alan R. Weiss [mailto:alan@...]
                Sent: Friday, April 2, 2004 11:21 PM
                To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update


                My dear Adam,

                Do you *really* think, in your heart, that Steve wants to stifle
                activism?

                All he is saying is "not on THIS particular list", and "not in a
                place that can jeopardize the status of the FSP." We both know,
                indeed everyone knows, that you support the mission of the FSP (as
                does Steve). How can anyone who has read your words not know your
                commitment?

                Lets save our vitriol, bile, rejectionism, nastiness, and general
                mayhem for the REAL enemies of liberty and seek to remember who WE
                are. :-)

                WE are better than them. WE treat each other with respect and
                dignity. Most of all, WE don't eat our own over what in the long-
                term will not be a crisis-issue.

                OK, fellow Porcupines?

                With regards to both,

                Alan R. Weiss
                Austin
                Member, FSP



                --- In freestateproject@yahoogroups.com, "Adam W. Gonnerman"
                <freestatepatriot@b...> wrote:
                > Great Steve, stifle activism. Nice. How about someone setting up
                an FSP activists list? FSP could list it on their site. Or does
                that not pass muster, Steve?
                >
                > Adam G.
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: Steve [mailto:simplulo@y...]
                > Sent: Friday, April 2, 2004 10:41 AM
                > To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update
                >
                > That this group has over 13K messages should be a clue as to its
                > origins. If you go back to the beginning, all will be clear: the
                > FSP was founded here, and the primary purpose of this forum remains
                > discussion of FSP business, though we do sometimes tend to go off
                on
                > tangents (I think a recent post of mine was moderated). It was a
                > very long time before we opened the web site, and even then, some
                > functions were never duplicated: if you click on the groupware
                links
                > at the left (files, photos, etc) you will see how we used to
                > collaborate, and still occasionally do. There is no other place
                > where any member can upload files for sharing with the others.
                >
                > The group moderators
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freestateproject/members?group=mod
                > are mostly from the leadership, including directors.
                >
                > Anyone who is still uncertain should read the statement on this
                > group's home page:
                >
                > "This group/list is moderated and is for discussion of FSP business
                > or FSP-specific issues or questions. This is the only official e-
                > mail discussion list run by the Free State Project; other email
                > lists are unofficial and run by FSP members or supporters. We also
                > have a new web community that we invite everyone to join to discuss
                > almost any topic under the sun on various boards:
                > http://forum.freestateproject.org ."
                >
                > This is indeed a private e-mail list--a private official FSP
                mailing
                > list--and a good deal more. Anything said or done here should
                > reflect and further the FSP's goals, and certainly not interfere
                > with them.



                Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT


                ------------------------------------------------------------
                Yahoo! Groups Links
                To visit your group on the web, go to:
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freestateproject/
                To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                freestateproject-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.






                Yahoo! Groups Links
              • Mary Lou Seymour
                Since the IRS wanted transcripts of radio interviews when the FSP applied for c3 status last time, it s certainly possible they d want email postings. (and
                Message 7 of 20 , Apr 4, 2004
                  Since the IRS wanted transcripts of radio interviews when the FSP
                  applied for c3 status last time, it's certainly possible they'd want
                  email postings. (and have the RIGHT to them, BTW). Posts labeled "SB
                  454 update" on the official email list would obviously be a red flag.
                  (The invasion of privacy aspect is only one of the many reasons i've
                  always opposed c3, of course.)
                  (And no, I don't read this list much anymore, just when people ask me
                  to "look at what's going on now".)

                  On 2 Apr 2004 at 17:47, Lady Liberty wrote:

                  > on 4/2/04 2:16 PM, Adam W. Gonnerman at freestatepatriot@...
                  > wrote:
                  >
                  > > Great Steve, stifle activism. Nice. How about someone setting
                  up
                  > > an FSP activists list? FSP could list it on their site. Or does
                  > > that not pass muster, Steve?
                  >
                  > Steve isn't stifling activism. He's got some valid concerns re: the
                  > 501(c)3 status and whether or not a list labeled as "official
                  > business" for the FSP might likely be subject to 501(c)3
                  requirements
                  > - and if a failure to adhere to the requirements on such a list
                  might
                  > jeopardize the 501(c)3 status once it's obtained.
                  >
                  > Of course, I and the people like me who were against the 501(c)3
                  > status in the first place never even THOUGHT that something like
                  this
                  > might come up... <cough>
                  >
                  > Yours for freedom,
                  > Lady Liberty
                  >
                  > "The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the
                  vigilant,
                  > the active, the brave." Patrick Henry
                  > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                  --
                  > ------ News, commentary, and a patriotic goodie shoppe. Visit
                  > http://www.ladylibrty.com today!
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  ====================

                  My alternate email address is
                  libertymls@...

                  If you email me and I don't respond within 12 hours,
                  please resend to the alternate address.
                • Tim Condon
                  Oliver, it s not possible for the FSP to suffer sabotage at the hands of contributors when we have our 501(c)(3) status. Why? Because we re not a political
                  Message 8 of 20 , Apr 5, 2004
                    Oliver, it's not possible for the FSP to suffer sabotage at the
                    hands of contributors when we have our 501(c)(3) status. Why? Because we're
                    not a political organization; we're a recruiting and migration-sparking
                    organization. Once in the Free State, it will be up to everyone how to
                    engage in activism to get to a drastically reduced state government. In the
                    meantime, however, the only job of the Free State Project is to gather
                    together 20,000 people who promise to move to the Free State, and then pull
                    the trigger (so to speak) on the migration. That's all. ---Tim Condon,
                    FSP member services


                    At 02:08 PM 4/3/2004 -0600, you wrote:
                    >Hey folks, I monitor your chat as an interested man ready to go BUT you gotta
                    >get off this government priviledge deal. The 501 (c)3 status is for government
                    >sanctioned organizations meaning they can regulate you. I don't think
                    >ANYONE in
                    >the FSP frame of mind wants that. As for the people who will not contribute if
                    >you're not going to be a dedutable expense; forget them and move on. The
                    >organization will suffer sabotoge at the hands of the contributors if you
                    >go the
                    >501c3 route. Just quit now before everyone gets their feelings hurt if you're
                    >not going to do it right. Oliver, in what I wish was a fsp state; Texas.
                  • Mike Denny
                    Exactly Tim....politics will come later. Greetings from San Francisco....looking forward to being with you all in the Free State. Mike Denny
                    Message 9 of 20 , Apr 5, 2004
                      Exactly Tim....politics will come later.



                      Greetings from San Francisco....looking forward to being with you all in
                      the Free State.



                      Mike Denny





                      ________________________________

                      From: Tim Condon [mailto:tim@...]
                      Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 11:17 AM
                      To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update



                      Oliver, it's not possible for the FSP to suffer sabotage at the

                      hands of contributors when we have our 501(c)(3) status. Why? Because
                      we're
                      not a political organization; we're a recruiting and migration-sparking
                      organization. Once in the Free State, it will be up to everyone how to
                      engage in activism to get to a drastically reduced state government. In
                      the
                      meantime, however, the only job of the Free State Project is to gather
                      together 20,000 people who promise to move to the Free State, and then
                      pull
                      the trigger (so to speak) on the migration. That's all. ---Tim Condon,

                      FSP member services
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