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Re: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update

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  • Lady Liberty
    on 4/2/04 2:16 PM, Adam W. Gonnerman at freestatepatriot@burntmail.com ... Steve isn t stifling activism. He s got some valid concerns re: the 501(c)3 status
    Message 1 of 20 , Apr 2, 2004
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      on 4/2/04 2:16 PM, Adam W. Gonnerman at freestatepatriot@...
      wrote:

      > Great Steve, stifle activism. Nice. How about someone setting up an FSP
      > activists list? FSP could list it on their site. Or does that not pass
      > muster, Steve?

      Steve isn't stifling activism. He's got some valid concerns re: the 501(c)3
      status and whether or not a list labeled as "official business" for the FSP
      might likely be subject to 501(c)3 requirements - and if a failure to adhere
      to the requirements on such a list might jeopardize the 501(c)3 status once
      it's obtained.

      Of course, I and the people like me who were against the 501(c)3 status in
      the first place never even THOUGHT that something like this might come up...
      <cough>

      Yours for freedom,
      Lady Liberty

      "The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the
      active, the brave." Patrick Henry
      ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
      News, commentary, and a patriotic goodie shoppe.
      Visit http://www.ladylibrty.com today!
    • Philip L. Welch
      ... Wait a minute. You founded the Free State Project on freestateproject@yahoogroups.com? Is there time travel involved? Philip L. Welch
      Message 2 of 20 , Apr 2, 2004
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        > That this group has over 13K messages should be a clue as to its
        > origins. If you go back to the beginning, all will be clear: the
        > FSP was founded here

        Wait a minute. You founded the Free State Project on
        freestateproject@yahoogroups.com? Is there time travel involved?

        Philip L. Welch
        http://www.philwelch.net/
        http://www.PetitionOnline.com/philscar/petition.html


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Alan R. Weiss
        My dear Adam, Do you *really* think, in your heart, that Steve wants to stifle activism? All he is saying is not on THIS particular list , and not in a place
        Message 3 of 20 , Apr 2, 2004
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          My dear Adam,

          Do you *really* think, in your heart, that Steve wants to stifle
          activism?

          All he is saying is "not on THIS particular list", and "not in a
          place that can jeopardize the status of the FSP." We both know,
          indeed everyone knows, that you support the mission of the FSP (as
          does Steve). How can anyone who has read your words not know your
          commitment?

          Lets save our vitriol, bile, rejectionism, nastiness, and general
          mayhem for the REAL enemies of liberty and seek to remember who WE
          are. :-)

          WE are better than them. WE treat each other with respect and
          dignity. Most of all, WE don't eat our own over what in the long-
          term will not be a crisis-issue.

          OK, fellow Porcupines?

          With regards to both,

          Alan R. Weiss
          Austin
          Member, FSP



          --- In freestateproject@yahoogroups.com, "Adam W. Gonnerman"
          <freestatepatriot@b...> wrote:
          > Great Steve, stifle activism. Nice. How about someone setting up
          an FSP activists list? FSP could list it on their site. Or does
          that not pass muster, Steve?
          >
          > Adam G.
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: Steve [mailto:simplulo@y...]
          > Sent: Friday, April 2, 2004 10:41 AM
          > To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update
          >
          > That this group has over 13K messages should be a clue as to its
          > origins. If you go back to the beginning, all will be clear: the
          > FSP was founded here, and the primary purpose of this forum remains
          > discussion of FSP business, though we do sometimes tend to go off
          on
          > tangents (I think a recent post of mine was moderated). It was a
          > very long time before we opened the web site, and even then, some
          > functions were never duplicated: if you click on the groupware
          links
          > at the left (files, photos, etc) you will see how we used to
          > collaborate, and still occasionally do. There is no other place
          > where any member can upload files for sharing with the others.
          >
          > The group moderators
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freestateproject/members?group=mod
          > are mostly from the leadership, including directors.
          >
          > Anyone who is still uncertain should read the statement on this
          > group's home page:
          >
          > "This group/list is moderated and is for discussion of FSP business
          > or FSP-specific issues or questions. This is the only official e-
          > mail discussion list run by the Free State Project; other email
          > lists are unofficial and run by FSP members or supporters. We also
          > have a new web community that we invite everyone to join to discuss
          > almost any topic under the sun on various boards:
          > http://forum.freestateproject.org ."
          >
          > This is indeed a private e-mail list--a private official FSP
          mailing
          > list--and a good deal more. Anything said or done here should
          > reflect and further the FSP's goals, and certainly not interfere
          > with them.
        • Tim Condon
          Now, now, guys. Relax, Adam. Steve is trying to protect the Free State Project in sounding his concerns, just as you re trying to advance the movement with
          Message 4 of 20 , Apr 3, 2004
          • 0 Attachment
            Now, now, guys. Relax, Adam. Steve is trying to protect the Free
            State Project in sounding his concerns, just as you're trying to advance
            the movement with your call to activism. No need to get acidic. ---Tim Condon


            At 06:16 PM 4/2/2004 +0000, you wrote:
            >Great Steve, stifle activism. Nice. How about someone setting up an FSP
            >activists list? FSP could list it on their site. Or does that not pass
            >muster, Steve?
            >
            >Adam G.
            >
            >-----Original Message-----
            >From: Steve [mailto:simplulo@...]
            >Sent: Friday, April 2, 2004 10:41 AM
            >To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
            >Subject: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update
            >
            >That this group has over 13K messages should be a clue as to its
            >origins. If you go back to the beginning, all will be clear: the
            >FSP was founded here, and the primary purpose of this forum remains
            >discussion of FSP business, though we do sometimes tend to go off on
            >tangents (I think a recent post of mine was moderated). It was a
            >very long time before we opened the web site, and even then, some
            >functions were never duplicated: if you click on the groupware links
            >at the left (files, photos, etc) you will see how we used to
            >collaborate, and still occasionally do. There is no other place
            >where any member can upload files for sharing with the others.
            >
            >The group moderators
            >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freestateproject/members?group=mod
            >are mostly from the leadership, including directors.
            >
            >Anyone who is still uncertain should read the statement on this
            >group's home page:
            >
            >"This group/list is moderated and is for discussion of FSP business
            >or FSP-specific issues or questions. This is the only official e-
            >mail discussion list run by the Free State Project; other email
            >lists are unofficial and run by FSP members or supporters. We also
            >have a new web community that we invite everyone to join to discuss
            >almost any topic under the sun on various boards:
            >http://forum.freestateproject.org ."
            >
            >This is indeed a private e-mail list--a private official FSP mailing
            >list--and a good deal more. Anything said or done here should
            >reflect and further the FSP's goals, and certainly not interfere
            >with them.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Adam W. Gonnerman
            The only good alternative, then, is that I leave this list. Adam G. ... From: Alan R. Weiss [mailto:alan@ebenchmarks.com] Sent: Friday, April 2, 2004 11:21 PM
            Message 5 of 20 , Apr 3, 2004
            • 0 Attachment
              The only good alternative, then, is that I leave this list.

              Adam G.

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Alan R. Weiss [mailto:alan@...]
              Sent: Friday, April 2, 2004 11:21 PM
              To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update


              My dear Adam,

              Do you *really* think, in your heart, that Steve wants to stifle
              activism?

              All he is saying is "not on THIS particular list", and "not in a
              place that can jeopardize the status of the FSP." We both know,
              indeed everyone knows, that you support the mission of the FSP (as
              does Steve). How can anyone who has read your words not know your
              commitment?

              Lets save our vitriol, bile, rejectionism, nastiness, and general
              mayhem for the REAL enemies of liberty and seek to remember who WE
              are. :-)

              WE are better than them. WE treat each other with respect and
              dignity. Most of all, WE don't eat our own over what in the long-
              term will not be a crisis-issue.

              OK, fellow Porcupines?

              With regards to both,

              Alan R. Weiss
              Austin
              Member, FSP



              --- In freestateproject@yahoogroups.com, "Adam W. Gonnerman"
              <freestatepatriot@b...> wrote:
              > Great Steve, stifle activism. Nice. How about someone setting up
              an FSP activists list? FSP could list it on their site. Or does
              that not pass muster, Steve?
              >
              > Adam G.
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: Steve [mailto:simplulo@y...]
              > Sent: Friday, April 2, 2004 10:41 AM
              > To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update
              >
              > That this group has over 13K messages should be a clue as to its
              > origins. If you go back to the beginning, all will be clear: the
              > FSP was founded here, and the primary purpose of this forum remains
              > discussion of FSP business, though we do sometimes tend to go off
              on
              > tangents (I think a recent post of mine was moderated). It was a
              > very long time before we opened the web site, and even then, some
              > functions were never duplicated: if you click on the groupware
              links
              > at the left (files, photos, etc) you will see how we used to
              > collaborate, and still occasionally do. There is no other place
              > where any member can upload files for sharing with the others.
              >
              > The group moderators
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freestateproject/members?group=mod
              > are mostly from the leadership, including directors.
              >
              > Anyone who is still uncertain should read the statement on this
              > group's home page:
              >
              > "This group/list is moderated and is for discussion of FSP business
              > or FSP-specific issues or questions. This is the only official e-
              > mail discussion list run by the Free State Project; other email
              > lists are unofficial and run by FSP members or supporters. We also
              > have a new web community that we invite everyone to join to discuss
              > almost any topic under the sun on various boards:
              > http://forum.freestateproject.org ."
              >
              > This is indeed a private e-mail list--a private official FSP
              mailing
              > list--and a good deal more. Anything said or done here should
              > reflect and further the FSP's goals, and certainly not interfere
              > with them.



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              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
            • Oliver Dyer
              Hey folks, I monitor your chat as an interested man ready to go BUT you gotta get off this government priviledge deal. The 501 (c)3 status is for government
              Message 6 of 20 , Apr 3, 2004
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                Hey folks, I monitor your chat as an interested man ready to go BUT you gotta
                get off this government priviledge deal. The 501 (c)3 status is for government
                sanctioned organizations meaning they can regulate you. I don't think ANYONE in
                the FSP frame of mind wants that. As for the people who will not contribute if
                you're not going to be a dedutable expense; forget them and move on. The
                organization will suffer sabotoge at the hands of the contributors if you go the
                501c3 route. Just quit now before everyone gets their feelings hurt if you're
                not going to do it right. Oliver, in what I wish was a fsp state; Texas.

                Lady Liberty wrote:

                > on 4/2/04 2:16 PM, Adam W. Gonnerman at freestatepatriot@...
                > wrote:
                >
                > > Great Steve, stifle activism. Nice. How about someone setting up an FSP
                > > activists list? FSP could list it on their site. Or does that not pass
                > > muster, Steve?
                >
                > Steve isn't stifling activism. He's got some valid concerns re: the 501(c)3
                > status and whether or not a list labeled as "official business" for the FSP
                > might likely be subject to 501(c)3 requirements - and if a failure to adhere
                > to the requirements on such a list might jeopardize the 501(c)3 status once
                > it's obtained.
                >
                > Of course, I and the people like me who were against the 501(c)3 status in
                > the first place never even THOUGHT that something like this might come up...
                > <cough>
                >
                > Yours for freedom,
                > Lady Liberty
                >
                > "The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the
                > active, the brave." Patrick Henry
                > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                > News, commentary, and a patriotic goodie shoppe.
                > Visit http://www.ladylibrty.com today!
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • Rick LaPoint
                Why in the hell are we having this discussion? On this list? Have we not learned to ignore convention yet? Anarchists, denite! rick ... From: Adam W. Gonnerman
                Message 7 of 20 , Apr 4, 2004
                • 0 Attachment
                  Why in the hell are we having this discussion?

                  On this list?

                  Have we not learned to ignore convention yet?

                  Anarchists, denite!

                  rick

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Adam W. Gonnerman [mailto:freestatepatriot@...]
                  Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 9:36 AM
                  To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update

                  The only good alternative, then, is that I leave this list.

                  Adam G.

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Alan R. Weiss [mailto:alan@...]
                  Sent: Friday, April 2, 2004 11:21 PM
                  To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update


                  My dear Adam,

                  Do you *really* think, in your heart, that Steve wants to stifle
                  activism?

                  All he is saying is "not on THIS particular list", and "not in a
                  place that can jeopardize the status of the FSP." We both know,
                  indeed everyone knows, that you support the mission of the FSP (as
                  does Steve). How can anyone who has read your words not know your
                  commitment?

                  Lets save our vitriol, bile, rejectionism, nastiness, and general
                  mayhem for the REAL enemies of liberty and seek to remember who WE
                  are. :-)

                  WE are better than them. WE treat each other with respect and
                  dignity. Most of all, WE don't eat our own over what in the long-
                  term will not be a crisis-issue.

                  OK, fellow Porcupines?

                  With regards to both,

                  Alan R. Weiss
                  Austin
                  Member, FSP



                  --- In freestateproject@yahoogroups.com, "Adam W. Gonnerman"
                  <freestatepatriot@b...> wrote:
                  > Great Steve, stifle activism. Nice. How about someone setting up
                  an FSP activists list? FSP could list it on their site. Or does
                  that not pass muster, Steve?
                  >
                  > Adam G.
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: Steve [mailto:simplulo@y...]
                  > Sent: Friday, April 2, 2004 10:41 AM
                  > To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update
                  >
                  > That this group has over 13K messages should be a clue as to its
                  > origins. If you go back to the beginning, all will be clear: the
                  > FSP was founded here, and the primary purpose of this forum remains
                  > discussion of FSP business, though we do sometimes tend to go off
                  on
                  > tangents (I think a recent post of mine was moderated). It was a
                  > very long time before we opened the web site, and even then, some
                  > functions were never duplicated: if you click on the groupware
                  links
                  > at the left (files, photos, etc) you will see how we used to
                  > collaborate, and still occasionally do. There is no other place
                  > where any member can upload files for sharing with the others.
                  >
                  > The group moderators
                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freestateproject/members?group=mod
                  > are mostly from the leadership, including directors.
                  >
                  > Anyone who is still uncertain should read the statement on this
                  > group's home page:
                  >
                  > "This group/list is moderated and is for discussion of FSP business
                  > or FSP-specific issues or questions. This is the only official e-
                  > mail discussion list run by the Free State Project; other email
                  > lists are unofficial and run by FSP members or supporters. We also
                  > have a new web community that we invite everyone to join to discuss
                  > almost any topic under the sun on various boards:
                  > http://forum.freestateproject.org ."
                  >
                  > This is indeed a private e-mail list--a private official FSP
                  mailing
                  > list--and a good deal more. Anything said or done here should
                  > reflect and further the FSP's goals, and certainly not interfere
                  > with them.



                  Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT


                  ------------------------------------------------------------
                  Yahoo! Groups Links
                  To visit your group on the web, go to:
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freestateproject/
                  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  freestateproject-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.






                  Yahoo! Groups Links
                • Mary Lou Seymour
                  Since the IRS wanted transcripts of radio interviews when the FSP applied for c3 status last time, it s certainly possible they d want email postings. (and
                  Message 8 of 20 , Apr 4, 2004
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Since the IRS wanted transcripts of radio interviews when the FSP
                    applied for c3 status last time, it's certainly possible they'd want
                    email postings. (and have the RIGHT to them, BTW). Posts labeled "SB
                    454 update" on the official email list would obviously be a red flag.
                    (The invasion of privacy aspect is only one of the many reasons i've
                    always opposed c3, of course.)
                    (And no, I don't read this list much anymore, just when people ask me
                    to "look at what's going on now".)

                    On 2 Apr 2004 at 17:47, Lady Liberty wrote:

                    > on 4/2/04 2:16 PM, Adam W. Gonnerman at freestatepatriot@...
                    > wrote:
                    >
                    > > Great Steve, stifle activism. Nice. How about someone setting
                    up
                    > > an FSP activists list? FSP could list it on their site. Or does
                    > > that not pass muster, Steve?
                    >
                    > Steve isn't stifling activism. He's got some valid concerns re: the
                    > 501(c)3 status and whether or not a list labeled as "official
                    > business" for the FSP might likely be subject to 501(c)3
                    requirements
                    > - and if a failure to adhere to the requirements on such a list
                    might
                    > jeopardize the 501(c)3 status once it's obtained.
                    >
                    > Of course, I and the people like me who were against the 501(c)3
                    > status in the first place never even THOUGHT that something like
                    this
                    > might come up... <cough>
                    >
                    > Yours for freedom,
                    > Lady Liberty
                    >
                    > "The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the
                    vigilant,
                    > the active, the brave." Patrick Henry
                    > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                    --
                    > ------ News, commentary, and a patriotic goodie shoppe. Visit
                    > http://www.ladylibrty.com today!
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >


                    ====================

                    My alternate email address is
                    libertymls@...

                    If you email me and I don't respond within 12 hours,
                    please resend to the alternate address.
                  • Tim Condon
                    Oliver, it s not possible for the FSP to suffer sabotage at the hands of contributors when we have our 501(c)(3) status. Why? Because we re not a political
                    Message 9 of 20 , Apr 5, 2004
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Oliver, it's not possible for the FSP to suffer sabotage at the
                      hands of contributors when we have our 501(c)(3) status. Why? Because we're
                      not a political organization; we're a recruiting and migration-sparking
                      organization. Once in the Free State, it will be up to everyone how to
                      engage in activism to get to a drastically reduced state government. In the
                      meantime, however, the only job of the Free State Project is to gather
                      together 20,000 people who promise to move to the Free State, and then pull
                      the trigger (so to speak) on the migration. That's all. ---Tim Condon,
                      FSP member services


                      At 02:08 PM 4/3/2004 -0600, you wrote:
                      >Hey folks, I monitor your chat as an interested man ready to go BUT you gotta
                      >get off this government priviledge deal. The 501 (c)3 status is for government
                      >sanctioned organizations meaning they can regulate you. I don't think
                      >ANYONE in
                      >the FSP frame of mind wants that. As for the people who will not contribute if
                      >you're not going to be a dedutable expense; forget them and move on. The
                      >organization will suffer sabotoge at the hands of the contributors if you
                      >go the
                      >501c3 route. Just quit now before everyone gets their feelings hurt if you're
                      >not going to do it right. Oliver, in what I wish was a fsp state; Texas.
                    • Mike Denny
                      Exactly Tim....politics will come later. Greetings from San Francisco....looking forward to being with you all in the Free State. Mike Denny
                      Message 10 of 20 , Apr 5, 2004
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Exactly Tim....politics will come later.



                        Greetings from San Francisco....looking forward to being with you all in
                        the Free State.



                        Mike Denny





                        ________________________________

                        From: Tim Condon [mailto:tim@...]
                        Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 11:17 AM
                        To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update



                        Oliver, it's not possible for the FSP to suffer sabotage at the

                        hands of contributors when we have our 501(c)(3) status. Why? Because
                        we're
                        not a political organization; we're a recruiting and migration-sparking
                        organization. Once in the Free State, it will be up to everyone how to
                        engage in activism to get to a drastically reduced state government. In
                        the
                        meantime, however, the only job of the Free State Project is to gather
                        together 20,000 people who promise to move to the Free State, and then
                        pull
                        the trigger (so to speak) on the migration. That's all. ---Tim Condon,

                        FSP member services
                      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.