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[FSP] Re: SB 454 Update

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  • Steve
    ... Just not in this Yahoo group, on the FSP web site, or in any way that falsely suggests FSP endorsement.
    Message 1 of 20 , Apr 2, 2004
      I agree wholeheartedly:

      >Individual members can use the contacts we've made for
      >political (or any other) activity not endorsed by the FSP

      Just not in this Yahoo group, on the FSP web site, or in any way
      that falsely suggests FSP endorsement.
    • Adam W. Gonnerman
      Great Steve, stifle activism. Nice. How about someone setting up an FSP activists list? FSP could list it on their site. Or does that not pass muster,
      Message 2 of 20 , Apr 2, 2004
        Great Steve, stifle activism. Nice. How about someone setting up an FSP activists list? FSP could list it on their site. Or does that not pass muster, Steve?

        Adam G.

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Steve [mailto:simplulo@...]
        Sent: Friday, April 2, 2004 10:41 AM
        To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update

        That this group has over 13K messages should be a clue as to its
        origins. If you go back to the beginning, all will be clear: the
        FSP was founded here, and the primary purpose of this forum remains
        discussion of FSP business, though we do sometimes tend to go off on
        tangents (I think a recent post of mine was moderated). It was a
        very long time before we opened the web site, and even then, some
        functions were never duplicated: if you click on the groupware links
        at the left (files, photos, etc) you will see how we used to
        collaborate, and still occasionally do. There is no other place
        where any member can upload files for sharing with the others.

        The group moderators
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freestateproject/members?group=mod
        are mostly from the leadership, including directors.

        Anyone who is still uncertain should read the statement on this
        group's home page:

        "This group/list is moderated and is for discussion of FSP business
        or FSP-specific issues or questions. This is the only official e-
        mail discussion list run by the Free State Project; other email
        lists are unofficial and run by FSP members or supporters. We also
        have a new web community that we invite everyone to join to discuss
        almost any topic under the sun on various boards:
        http://forum.freestateproject.org ."

        This is indeed a private e-mail list--a private official FSP mailing
        list--and a good deal more. Anything said or done here should
        reflect and further the FSP's goals, and certainly not interfere
        with them.
      • Lady Liberty
        on 4/2/04 2:16 PM, Adam W. Gonnerman at freestatepatriot@burntmail.com ... Steve isn t stifling activism. He s got some valid concerns re: the 501(c)3 status
        Message 3 of 20 , Apr 2, 2004
          on 4/2/04 2:16 PM, Adam W. Gonnerman at freestatepatriot@...
          wrote:

          > Great Steve, stifle activism. Nice. How about someone setting up an FSP
          > activists list? FSP could list it on their site. Or does that not pass
          > muster, Steve?

          Steve isn't stifling activism. He's got some valid concerns re: the 501(c)3
          status and whether or not a list labeled as "official business" for the FSP
          might likely be subject to 501(c)3 requirements - and if a failure to adhere
          to the requirements on such a list might jeopardize the 501(c)3 status once
          it's obtained.

          Of course, I and the people like me who were against the 501(c)3 status in
          the first place never even THOUGHT that something like this might come up...
          <cough>

          Yours for freedom,
          Lady Liberty

          "The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the
          active, the brave." Patrick Henry
          ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
          News, commentary, and a patriotic goodie shoppe.
          Visit http://www.ladylibrty.com today!
        • Philip L. Welch
          ... Wait a minute. You founded the Free State Project on freestateproject@yahoogroups.com? Is there time travel involved? Philip L. Welch
          Message 4 of 20 , Apr 2, 2004
            > That this group has over 13K messages should be a clue as to its
            > origins. If you go back to the beginning, all will be clear: the
            > FSP was founded here

            Wait a minute. You founded the Free State Project on
            freestateproject@yahoogroups.com? Is there time travel involved?

            Philip L. Welch
            http://www.philwelch.net/
            http://www.PetitionOnline.com/philscar/petition.html


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Alan R. Weiss
            My dear Adam, Do you *really* think, in your heart, that Steve wants to stifle activism? All he is saying is not on THIS particular list , and not in a place
            Message 5 of 20 , Apr 2, 2004
              My dear Adam,

              Do you *really* think, in your heart, that Steve wants to stifle
              activism?

              All he is saying is "not on THIS particular list", and "not in a
              place that can jeopardize the status of the FSP." We both know,
              indeed everyone knows, that you support the mission of the FSP (as
              does Steve). How can anyone who has read your words not know your
              commitment?

              Lets save our vitriol, bile, rejectionism, nastiness, and general
              mayhem for the REAL enemies of liberty and seek to remember who WE
              are. :-)

              WE are better than them. WE treat each other with respect and
              dignity. Most of all, WE don't eat our own over what in the long-
              term will not be a crisis-issue.

              OK, fellow Porcupines?

              With regards to both,

              Alan R. Weiss
              Austin
              Member, FSP



              --- In freestateproject@yahoogroups.com, "Adam W. Gonnerman"
              <freestatepatriot@b...> wrote:
              > Great Steve, stifle activism. Nice. How about someone setting up
              an FSP activists list? FSP could list it on their site. Or does
              that not pass muster, Steve?
              >
              > Adam G.
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: Steve [mailto:simplulo@y...]
              > Sent: Friday, April 2, 2004 10:41 AM
              > To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update
              >
              > That this group has over 13K messages should be a clue as to its
              > origins. If you go back to the beginning, all will be clear: the
              > FSP was founded here, and the primary purpose of this forum remains
              > discussion of FSP business, though we do sometimes tend to go off
              on
              > tangents (I think a recent post of mine was moderated). It was a
              > very long time before we opened the web site, and even then, some
              > functions were never duplicated: if you click on the groupware
              links
              > at the left (files, photos, etc) you will see how we used to
              > collaborate, and still occasionally do. There is no other place
              > where any member can upload files for sharing with the others.
              >
              > The group moderators
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freestateproject/members?group=mod
              > are mostly from the leadership, including directors.
              >
              > Anyone who is still uncertain should read the statement on this
              > group's home page:
              >
              > "This group/list is moderated and is for discussion of FSP business
              > or FSP-specific issues or questions. This is the only official e-
              > mail discussion list run by the Free State Project; other email
              > lists are unofficial and run by FSP members or supporters. We also
              > have a new web community that we invite everyone to join to discuss
              > almost any topic under the sun on various boards:
              > http://forum.freestateproject.org ."
              >
              > This is indeed a private e-mail list--a private official FSP
              mailing
              > list--and a good deal more. Anything said or done here should
              > reflect and further the FSP's goals, and certainly not interfere
              > with them.
            • Tim Condon
              Now, now, guys. Relax, Adam. Steve is trying to protect the Free State Project in sounding his concerns, just as you re trying to advance the movement with
              Message 6 of 20 , Apr 3, 2004
                Now, now, guys. Relax, Adam. Steve is trying to protect the Free
                State Project in sounding his concerns, just as you're trying to advance
                the movement with your call to activism. No need to get acidic. ---Tim Condon


                At 06:16 PM 4/2/2004 +0000, you wrote:
                >Great Steve, stifle activism. Nice. How about someone setting up an FSP
                >activists list? FSP could list it on their site. Or does that not pass
                >muster, Steve?
                >
                >Adam G.
                >
                >-----Original Message-----
                >From: Steve [mailto:simplulo@...]
                >Sent: Friday, April 2, 2004 10:41 AM
                >To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                >Subject: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update
                >
                >That this group has over 13K messages should be a clue as to its
                >origins. If you go back to the beginning, all will be clear: the
                >FSP was founded here, and the primary purpose of this forum remains
                >discussion of FSP business, though we do sometimes tend to go off on
                >tangents (I think a recent post of mine was moderated). It was a
                >very long time before we opened the web site, and even then, some
                >functions were never duplicated: if you click on the groupware links
                >at the left (files, photos, etc) you will see how we used to
                >collaborate, and still occasionally do. There is no other place
                >where any member can upload files for sharing with the others.
                >
                >The group moderators
                >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freestateproject/members?group=mod
                >are mostly from the leadership, including directors.
                >
                >Anyone who is still uncertain should read the statement on this
                >group's home page:
                >
                >"This group/list is moderated and is for discussion of FSP business
                >or FSP-specific issues or questions. This is the only official e-
                >mail discussion list run by the Free State Project; other email
                >lists are unofficial and run by FSP members or supporters. We also
                >have a new web community that we invite everyone to join to discuss
                >almost any topic under the sun on various boards:
                >http://forum.freestateproject.org ."
                >
                >This is indeed a private e-mail list--a private official FSP mailing
                >list--and a good deal more. Anything said or done here should
                >reflect and further the FSP's goals, and certainly not interfere
                >with them.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • Adam W. Gonnerman
                The only good alternative, then, is that I leave this list. Adam G. ... From: Alan R. Weiss [mailto:alan@ebenchmarks.com] Sent: Friday, April 2, 2004 11:21 PM
                Message 7 of 20 , Apr 3, 2004
                  The only good alternative, then, is that I leave this list.

                  Adam G.

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Alan R. Weiss [mailto:alan@...]
                  Sent: Friday, April 2, 2004 11:21 PM
                  To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update


                  My dear Adam,

                  Do you *really* think, in your heart, that Steve wants to stifle
                  activism?

                  All he is saying is "not on THIS particular list", and "not in a
                  place that can jeopardize the status of the FSP." We both know,
                  indeed everyone knows, that you support the mission of the FSP (as
                  does Steve). How can anyone who has read your words not know your
                  commitment?

                  Lets save our vitriol, bile, rejectionism, nastiness, and general
                  mayhem for the REAL enemies of liberty and seek to remember who WE
                  are. :-)

                  WE are better than them. WE treat each other with respect and
                  dignity. Most of all, WE don't eat our own over what in the long-
                  term will not be a crisis-issue.

                  OK, fellow Porcupines?

                  With regards to both,

                  Alan R. Weiss
                  Austin
                  Member, FSP



                  --- In freestateproject@yahoogroups.com, "Adam W. Gonnerman"
                  <freestatepatriot@b...> wrote:
                  > Great Steve, stifle activism. Nice. How about someone setting up
                  an FSP activists list? FSP could list it on their site. Or does
                  that not pass muster, Steve?
                  >
                  > Adam G.
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: Steve [mailto:simplulo@y...]
                  > Sent: Friday, April 2, 2004 10:41 AM
                  > To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update
                  >
                  > That this group has over 13K messages should be a clue as to its
                  > origins. If you go back to the beginning, all will be clear: the
                  > FSP was founded here, and the primary purpose of this forum remains
                  > discussion of FSP business, though we do sometimes tend to go off
                  on
                  > tangents (I think a recent post of mine was moderated). It was a
                  > very long time before we opened the web site, and even then, some
                  > functions were never duplicated: if you click on the groupware
                  links
                  > at the left (files, photos, etc) you will see how we used to
                  > collaborate, and still occasionally do. There is no other place
                  > where any member can upload files for sharing with the others.
                  >
                  > The group moderators
                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freestateproject/members?group=mod
                  > are mostly from the leadership, including directors.
                  >
                  > Anyone who is still uncertain should read the statement on this
                  > group's home page:
                  >
                  > "This group/list is moderated and is for discussion of FSP business
                  > or FSP-specific issues or questions. This is the only official e-
                  > mail discussion list run by the Free State Project; other email
                  > lists are unofficial and run by FSP members or supporters. We also
                  > have a new web community that we invite everyone to join to discuss
                  > almost any topic under the sun on various boards:
                  > http://forum.freestateproject.org ."
                  >
                  > This is indeed a private e-mail list--a private official FSP
                  mailing
                  > list--and a good deal more. Anything said or done here should
                  > reflect and further the FSP's goals, and certainly not interfere
                  > with them.



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                  To visit your group on the web, go to:
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freestateproject/
                  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  freestateproject-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                • Oliver Dyer
                  Hey folks, I monitor your chat as an interested man ready to go BUT you gotta get off this government priviledge deal. The 501 (c)3 status is for government
                  Message 8 of 20 , Apr 3, 2004
                    Hey folks, I monitor your chat as an interested man ready to go BUT you gotta
                    get off this government priviledge deal. The 501 (c)3 status is for government
                    sanctioned organizations meaning they can regulate you. I don't think ANYONE in
                    the FSP frame of mind wants that. As for the people who will not contribute if
                    you're not going to be a dedutable expense; forget them and move on. The
                    organization will suffer sabotoge at the hands of the contributors if you go the
                    501c3 route. Just quit now before everyone gets their feelings hurt if you're
                    not going to do it right. Oliver, in what I wish was a fsp state; Texas.

                    Lady Liberty wrote:

                    > on 4/2/04 2:16 PM, Adam W. Gonnerman at freestatepatriot@...
                    > wrote:
                    >
                    > > Great Steve, stifle activism. Nice. How about someone setting up an FSP
                    > > activists list? FSP could list it on their site. Or does that not pass
                    > > muster, Steve?
                    >
                    > Steve isn't stifling activism. He's got some valid concerns re: the 501(c)3
                    > status and whether or not a list labeled as "official business" for the FSP
                    > might likely be subject to 501(c)3 requirements - and if a failure to adhere
                    > to the requirements on such a list might jeopardize the 501(c)3 status once
                    > it's obtained.
                    >
                    > Of course, I and the people like me who were against the 501(c)3 status in
                    > the first place never even THOUGHT that something like this might come up...
                    > <cough>
                    >
                    > Yours for freedom,
                    > Lady Liberty
                    >
                    > "The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the
                    > active, the brave." Patrick Henry
                    > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    > News, commentary, and a patriotic goodie shoppe.
                    > Visit http://www.ladylibrty.com today!
                    >
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Rick LaPoint
                    Why in the hell are we having this discussion? On this list? Have we not learned to ignore convention yet? Anarchists, denite! rick ... From: Adam W. Gonnerman
                    Message 9 of 20 , Apr 4, 2004
                      Why in the hell are we having this discussion?

                      On this list?

                      Have we not learned to ignore convention yet?

                      Anarchists, denite!

                      rick

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Adam W. Gonnerman [mailto:freestatepatriot@...]
                      Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 9:36 AM
                      To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update

                      The only good alternative, then, is that I leave this list.

                      Adam G.

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Alan R. Weiss [mailto:alan@...]
                      Sent: Friday, April 2, 2004 11:21 PM
                      To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update


                      My dear Adam,

                      Do you *really* think, in your heart, that Steve wants to stifle
                      activism?

                      All he is saying is "not on THIS particular list", and "not in a
                      place that can jeopardize the status of the FSP." We both know,
                      indeed everyone knows, that you support the mission of the FSP (as
                      does Steve). How can anyone who has read your words not know your
                      commitment?

                      Lets save our vitriol, bile, rejectionism, nastiness, and general
                      mayhem for the REAL enemies of liberty and seek to remember who WE
                      are. :-)

                      WE are better than them. WE treat each other with respect and
                      dignity. Most of all, WE don't eat our own over what in the long-
                      term will not be a crisis-issue.

                      OK, fellow Porcupines?

                      With regards to both,

                      Alan R. Weiss
                      Austin
                      Member, FSP



                      --- In freestateproject@yahoogroups.com, "Adam W. Gonnerman"
                      <freestatepatriot@b...> wrote:
                      > Great Steve, stifle activism. Nice. How about someone setting up
                      an FSP activists list? FSP could list it on their site. Or does
                      that not pass muster, Steve?
                      >
                      > Adam G.
                      >
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: Steve [mailto:simplulo@y...]
                      > Sent: Friday, April 2, 2004 10:41 AM
                      > To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update
                      >
                      > That this group has over 13K messages should be a clue as to its
                      > origins. If you go back to the beginning, all will be clear: the
                      > FSP was founded here, and the primary purpose of this forum remains
                      > discussion of FSP business, though we do sometimes tend to go off
                      on
                      > tangents (I think a recent post of mine was moderated). It was a
                      > very long time before we opened the web site, and even then, some
                      > functions were never duplicated: if you click on the groupware
                      links
                      > at the left (files, photos, etc) you will see how we used to
                      > collaborate, and still occasionally do. There is no other place
                      > where any member can upload files for sharing with the others.
                      >
                      > The group moderators
                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freestateproject/members?group=mod
                      > are mostly from the leadership, including directors.
                      >
                      > Anyone who is still uncertain should read the statement on this
                      > group's home page:
                      >
                      > "This group/list is moderated and is for discussion of FSP business
                      > or FSP-specific issues or questions. This is the only official e-
                      > mail discussion list run by the Free State Project; other email
                      > lists are unofficial and run by FSP members or supporters. We also
                      > have a new web community that we invite everyone to join to discuss
                      > almost any topic under the sun on various boards:
                      > http://forum.freestateproject.org ."
                      >
                      > This is indeed a private e-mail list--a private official FSP
                      mailing
                      > list--and a good deal more. Anything said or done here should
                      > reflect and further the FSP's goals, and certainly not interfere
                      > with them.



                      Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT


                      ------------------------------------------------------------
                      Yahoo! Groups Links
                      To visit your group on the web, go to:
                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freestateproject/
                      To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      freestateproject-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.






                      Yahoo! Groups Links
                    • Mary Lou Seymour
                      Since the IRS wanted transcripts of radio interviews when the FSP applied for c3 status last time, it s certainly possible they d want email postings. (and
                      Message 10 of 20 , Apr 4, 2004
                        Since the IRS wanted transcripts of radio interviews when the FSP
                        applied for c3 status last time, it's certainly possible they'd want
                        email postings. (and have the RIGHT to them, BTW). Posts labeled "SB
                        454 update" on the official email list would obviously be a red flag.
                        (The invasion of privacy aspect is only one of the many reasons i've
                        always opposed c3, of course.)
                        (And no, I don't read this list much anymore, just when people ask me
                        to "look at what's going on now".)

                        On 2 Apr 2004 at 17:47, Lady Liberty wrote:

                        > on 4/2/04 2:16 PM, Adam W. Gonnerman at freestatepatriot@...
                        > wrote:
                        >
                        > > Great Steve, stifle activism. Nice. How about someone setting
                        up
                        > > an FSP activists list? FSP could list it on their site. Or does
                        > > that not pass muster, Steve?
                        >
                        > Steve isn't stifling activism. He's got some valid concerns re: the
                        > 501(c)3 status and whether or not a list labeled as "official
                        > business" for the FSP might likely be subject to 501(c)3
                        requirements
                        > - and if a failure to adhere to the requirements on such a list
                        might
                        > jeopardize the 501(c)3 status once it's obtained.
                        >
                        > Of course, I and the people like me who were against the 501(c)3
                        > status in the first place never even THOUGHT that something like
                        this
                        > might come up... <cough>
                        >
                        > Yours for freedom,
                        > Lady Liberty
                        >
                        > "The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the
                        vigilant,
                        > the active, the brave." Patrick Henry
                        > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                        --
                        > ------ News, commentary, and a patriotic goodie shoppe. Visit
                        > http://www.ladylibrty.com today!
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >


                        ====================

                        My alternate email address is
                        libertymls@...

                        If you email me and I don't respond within 12 hours,
                        please resend to the alternate address.
                      • Tim Condon
                        Oliver, it s not possible for the FSP to suffer sabotage at the hands of contributors when we have our 501(c)(3) status. Why? Because we re not a political
                        Message 11 of 20 , Apr 5, 2004
                          Oliver, it's not possible for the FSP to suffer sabotage at the
                          hands of contributors when we have our 501(c)(3) status. Why? Because we're
                          not a political organization; we're a recruiting and migration-sparking
                          organization. Once in the Free State, it will be up to everyone how to
                          engage in activism to get to a drastically reduced state government. In the
                          meantime, however, the only job of the Free State Project is to gather
                          together 20,000 people who promise to move to the Free State, and then pull
                          the trigger (so to speak) on the migration. That's all. ---Tim Condon,
                          FSP member services


                          At 02:08 PM 4/3/2004 -0600, you wrote:
                          >Hey folks, I monitor your chat as an interested man ready to go BUT you gotta
                          >get off this government priviledge deal. The 501 (c)3 status is for government
                          >sanctioned organizations meaning they can regulate you. I don't think
                          >ANYONE in
                          >the FSP frame of mind wants that. As for the people who will not contribute if
                          >you're not going to be a dedutable expense; forget them and move on. The
                          >organization will suffer sabotoge at the hands of the contributors if you
                          >go the
                          >501c3 route. Just quit now before everyone gets their feelings hurt if you're
                          >not going to do it right. Oliver, in what I wish was a fsp state; Texas.
                        • Mike Denny
                          Exactly Tim....politics will come later. Greetings from San Francisco....looking forward to being with you all in the Free State. Mike Denny
                          Message 12 of 20 , Apr 5, 2004
                            Exactly Tim....politics will come later.



                            Greetings from San Francisco....looking forward to being with you all in
                            the Free State.



                            Mike Denny





                            ________________________________

                            From: Tim Condon [mailto:tim@...]
                            Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 11:17 AM
                            To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update



                            Oliver, it's not possible for the FSP to suffer sabotage at the

                            hands of contributors when we have our 501(c)(3) status. Why? Because
                            we're
                            not a political organization; we're a recruiting and migration-sparking
                            organization. Once in the Free State, it will be up to everyone how to
                            engage in activism to get to a drastically reduced state government. In
                            the
                            meantime, however, the only job of the Free State Project is to gather
                            together 20,000 people who promise to move to the Free State, and then
                            pull
                            the trigger (so to speak) on the migration. That's all. ---Tim Condon,

                            FSP member services
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